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Heresy I

Last post 06-26-2012 1:35 PM by garymd. 22 replies.
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  • 06-06-2012 10:12 AM

    Heresy I

    Just picked up a pair of Heresy I speakers in great condition. Serial numbers match and start in 85. They sound amazing to me. The only mod that seems available is the c125 Crites tweeters, as well as the new crossover with lower high pass crossover frequency. I would like here from other Heresy I owners who have made these modifications and how you like the results compared to the original sound of the speakers. Any input appreciated. Thank You.
  • 06-06-2012 11:26 AM In reply to

    • neo33
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    Re: Heresy I

    If I were you, I'd leave the speakers alone and maybe just change the caps on the networks.  Your caps are almost 30 years old and may add resistance to the signals path which will decrease the efficiency of the speakers.  I have twelve pairs of Heresy of which 9 are Heresy Is, 2 Heresy IIs and 1 Heresy III.  IMO, the Heresy Is are the best in the series.  I still cannot hear any significant difference in the midranges between the Heresy Is and Heresy IIs & III.
    2-Channel System:
    - AES AE-1 Pre w/AES PH-1 Phono
    - Welborne Labs Moondog SET Monoblocks
    - Linn Axis w/Basik Plus
    - Jolida JD-100A w/2nd-Level Mod
    - Klipschorns
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.
  • 06-06-2012 11:57 AM In reply to

    • jhoak
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    Re: Heresy I

    I did just what you described to my last pair of Heresys. I can't speak to the change in sound because the tweeters in mine were shot when I got them. Rather than change diaphragms in the K-77s I just opted for the CT125s.

    As for the crossover if your buying the whole crossover just specify that you want the 4500 Hz version.

    If you're going to update your existing crossover Bob will sell you the kit. The 4500 Hz version changes the 2mF cap to a 4mF cap and adds a 160uH inductor in series with the squawker.

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  • 06-06-2012 12:25 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy I

    The only problem I have is no experience changing capacitors. Who does this type of work? Is it easy for a beginner?
  • 06-06-2012 12:43 PM In reply to

    • jhoak
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    Re: Heresy I

    I would suggest either purchasing complete crossovers or sending your existing crossovers to Mr. Crites for update.

    The process is fairly easy even for a first timer. The problem you'll run in to is the cost of the necessary tools will quickly offset the savings by doing it yourself.

    The other option is finding someone local to you who can do it for you. If you're anywhere in the Central Florida area I work for beer. Big Smile Wink

    I read Playboy magazine for the same reasons I read National Geographic magazine.
    I like to see pictures of places I know I´ll never visit.

    The new "slimmer trimmer" system is listed in my System Profile section. Check it out.
  • 06-06-2012 12:55 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy I

     JT: welcome to the forum which is the greatest place Klipsch on the internet. I will go further to say that this is one of the special placed to be found on the web. Congratulations on your new to you Heresy. You know there are a lot of Heresy out there and if you feel like playing with this pair why not? You can either undo what you don't like or just get another pair. I would suggest you get a second pair. That way you have a reference point ro check your work against.

        The CT125 is a very nice sounding tweeter and easily betters the stock K77 in both smoothness and extension. Given the age of your Heresy new capacitors is a very wise idea. As far as crossovers go I agree with SET12 of this forum (who happens to have an excellent thread on a Forte crossover upgrade over at audiokarma dot org) in that large gage air core inductors are the way to go, 12 gage good, ten gage better and 8 gage best. I also believe that better quality auto transformers go a long way toward better mid range. The large C-core German ones are excellent, at about $150.00 each to cheap but worth every penny. The woofer in your Heresy is ok, the K28 in an H3 is better a Forte woofer is better. bigger motor more control. The biggest problem with a Heresy is that the box is substandaed in that it is small full of air leaks and totally unbraced. Below is a link to som pictures of how I think a Heresy should be retro braced. Not that this would not be how I would brace a cabinet I designed from the ground up, this is a retro job in an already undersized cabinet. Materials must be rigid so the choice of red oak. These cabinets also have a structural brace between the back baffle and the mid driver motor not shown in these pictures. There is a lot of mod work that you can or could do to a Heresy to make it better but the question arises do you want to?

        You need to ask yourself what you want to end up with and then go from there. The point is that while you can learn a lot playing with your Heresy you will spend time and money and still have a Heresy at the end of the day thouh they will be better they will have the same basic compromises of a stock Heresy. 

        Hear is the conclussion that I have come to after two years of playing with a bunch of Klipsch speakers which include Heresy, Heresy 3. Quartet. Forte, Forte ll, KLF20 (two pair) and CF3 parts and that is that bigger horns sound better than smaller horns do. In general three ways sound better than two ways (Heritage Vs Reference) untill you lower the crossover point of your two way to the same range as a three way at which point I prefer a two way with a pair of subs. Efficiency is important and the higher the better. At this point the Heritage line shrinks to two, La Scala and Khorn. I don't have corners and I don't want to make them and I don't like all the compromisws of the Khorn so that leaves a La Scala style cabinet. The biggest issue I see with a La Scala is the K400 mid horn. The La Scala can be turned into a very nice two way. The Peavey SP1 or the two part combo of the FH-1 and the MF1X can be bought for peanuts. The FH-1 is essentially a better La Scala and the MF1X is a half size EV HR9040 bi radial cd mid horn called a CH-1.The CH-1 comes with a  good driver called a 22A which has a very cool one piece aluminum former diaphragm and a Mylar suspension which can be upgraded to a titanium diaphragm (unfortunately not a one piece design). This would give you a superb set of parts from which to start a project and at a lower cost than your typical set of Heresy. Yes they are big and some might say ugly but you won't want to switch back to a Heresy of any kind after hearing them. There are diy alternates to the mid hi section take a look at the unity and synergy horns designed by Tom Danley but for a first major project I would suggest building as little as possible. Your hands and mind will be full with lots to think about just doing a major modification. Think about it and figure out what time you have and what resourdes you have and you can go from there. Ask question as there are no shortage of great people here who have likely done what ever you can think about and more who are happy to share with you. You can have a lot of fun and learn a lot and meet a lot of amazing people along the way. What ever you want to do it is the right thing to do for you. Good luck and best regards Moray James. 

     

     

     

     http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=441273&highlight=heresy+heresy

  • 06-06-2012 1:58 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy I

    Thank You. I have some serious food for thought. I have a wonderful sub paired with these. Its not the largest but it works well. It is a velodyne optimum 10. I can't hear where the speaker ends and the sub begins. I like your idea of purchasing another set. I'm not sure if I'm quite ready for the extensive list of mods you have recommended. I must say I added cross braces to my kg4.5 and they now sound spectacular. I may leave these alone for a few months. I have been advised that you should leave functional speakers alone for some time just to become acquainted with their sound. It's a shame, they sound amazing but because of this forum I feel like they have not nearly reached their potential.
  • 06-06-2012 2:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy I

    Taylor,

    This is some of the BEST advice that you have and will ever receive.....!

    JustTaylor:
    I have been advised that you should leave functional speakers alone for some time just to become acquainted with their sound

    Upgrade the crossovers and get comfortable with the KLIPSCH sound before you venture into NO mans land...... they sound pretty good stock.....

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  • 06-06-2012 5:46 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy I

    I think I'm gonna order Heresy III's. I didn't realize how inexpensive they could be had. This stuff really gets a hold of you!
  • 06-06-2012 7:01 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy I

     You will be pleased with the H3 they are to me the best of the lot. My late 85 Heresy are almost Heresy ll and I also have a pair of H3. I have rebuilt a pair of H3 with my brother and been inside a second pair of H3. You will want to check the front baffle as all four H3 that I have worked on have loose and leaky front baffles. The link I posted shows the brace work inside a pair of H3 using 3/4" red oak strapping for all the brace work including the piece across the front baffle at the top of the woofer, which is the single most important brace in the whole mod as it stiffens the baffle at its weakest point.

      You can buy a pair of H3 then sell your Heresy and with the cash back from them snag a pair of Peavey SP1 or FH-1 / MF1X  and start your big project on the cheap. I have seen SP1 sell for a few hundred for the pair working.. You could not buy the parts for one La Scala for that kind of money.

       If you want to start simple and work up you can start with a number of different mods on the H3. Have fun go crazy. Best regards Moray James.

  • 06-06-2012 8:54 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy I

    This advice is insane.

     Use your Heresys and enjoy them. If they are old, then freshen up the crossover caps. If you need to experiment, then try out different locations in your room (keep them on the floor). If you are not satisfied with the bass (they are a small cabinet after all), then get a sub-woofer.

    If you are still not satisfied, then get some Cornwalls. If that still does not do it for you, then listen to some Klipschorns.

    Tom Buell
    My Klipschorns now have another home....
  • 06-06-2012 10:57 PM In reply to

    • neo33
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    Re: Heresy I

    That is a dangerous recommendation. Right now I am so content with my Klipschorns that I want to sell all of my other speakers and by more Klipschorns.
    PrestonTom:

    If that still does not do it for you, then listen to some Klipschorns.

    2-Channel System:
    - AES AE-1 Pre w/AES PH-1 Phono
    - Welborne Labs Moondog SET Monoblocks
    - Linn Axis w/Basik Plus
    - Jolida JD-100A w/2nd-Level Mod
    - Klipschorns
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.
  • 06-07-2012 9:51 AM In reply to

    Re: Heresy I

    What kind of caps are these? They are black boxes. Are these paper in oil caps? Why don't they look like batteries? What were they using in 85?
  • 06-07-2012 10:23 AM In reply to

    Re: Heresy I

    Also, do I need to remove all of the components to have these cabinets refinished? Could I just cover the front panel completely and be careful?
  • 06-07-2012 11:23 AM In reply to

    • neo33
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    • Joined on 08-29-2003
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    Re: Heresy I

    If it is me, I would remove all components.
    2-Channel System:
    - AES AE-1 Pre w/AES PH-1 Phono
    - Welborne Labs Moondog SET Monoblocks
    - Linn Axis w/Basik Plus
    - Jolida JD-100A w/2nd-Level Mod
    - Klipschorns
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.
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