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hmmm more disrespectful bs to anyone on this forum who owns a receiver. I own a lot of stuff including receivers none of it is from best buy. I think you need to learn a little common courtesy there shakey. +1

ok guys so a couple days ago i received a call from a nice guy about an hour away. he called to ask me for a favor. he knew that i have sold a lot of gear locally and also that i am very active on a number of forums. he called to tell me that he was coming upon a financial hardship. he needed money. i didn't really ask why or anything just asked him to make a list of what he had and how much he wanted for all of it and i would start making some calls and inquiring on here. then he tells me what all he has……. i tell him i am interested in something he had and he instantly tells me he doesn't want to sell things separate. i kindly reply he has a better chance of winning the lottery than selling all of his gear to one person. long story short i wanted a few things he had for sale so i just bought all of it! UGH so here i am, gauging interest hopefully in some of the excess….. so with that being said over the next few days as i make trips back and forth this is what all i will have to move along to new owners. i will have: a pioneer elite sc-57 flagship avr 1 year old mint in original box 750$ a panamax 4300 power conditioner 1 year old mint in original box asking 200$ a oppo 103 less than a year old mint in original box asking 410$ a elite 100 fixed frame screen brand new in box asking 175$ a set of klipsch icon consisting of 2 kf-26 asking 300$, 1 kc-25 asking 150$ , 2 ks-14 asking 150$, 4 kb-15 asking 150$ per pair. mint and all in boxes a set of klipsch reference (gen 4) consisting of 2 rf-62 asking 400$, 1 rc-62 asking 275$, 2 rs-52 asking 350$, 2 rb-61 asking 170$ , 2 rf-52 asking 250$ close to mint as i could tell, more to come 6 yes 6! NOW 5 4 2 REMAINING klipsch sw-112's mint in boxes. asking 300$ each for these EDIT: bounced ebay prices around and have priced accordinly. all prices are asking prices. please do not offend me with low offers. no time for it. all prices are plus shipping and the paypal fees are on me. feel free to ask any questions. THANK YOU ALL

I disagree with the notion of your first comment. It's hard to beat the synergy and low noise of integrated amplifiers, all other things being equal (which they seldom are). In the case of Onkyo, their WRAT amplifier is first class. Very fast and detailed. It drives my K-402/K1133 Horns beautifully and in a noiseless fashion. The only time your comment has validity is when you need more POWER to drive direct radiators (10-100 times more). Since I only use about 10--30 Milliwatts though 8 ohms, the receiver's 100W/ch power section is overkill for an all horn system. I then use the same speaker output to drive my digital Xover for max voltage input before PEQ. the output of that goes to a Lepai 2020 Tripath Chip amp (about 6W on a good day) to my LaScala-like woofer section and I only paid $26 for it. The only reason I do that is because the woofer has a different sensitivity and needs more voltage at it's input to balance against the passive top end. It's hard to beat an integrated amplifier with separates, unless you need more BEEF, but that is NOT always the case, as you suggest. Horn woofers and mids don't need the kind of power you speak of. I have owned and used McIntosh, Marantz, Scott, Harman Kardon Citation II, McIntosh, and Dynaco tube amps. Also the following SS: Dynaco, Crown, Hafler, VSP Labs (designed the power supply for it), Adcom, Bryston, and Carver. Even I have to admit they all sound a little "different" but not necessarily better. So, your term "most" would be true simply because "most" people to not have the cash, space, or nads (anti WAF) to use HORN woofer and Subwoofers in their home. The most IM distortion comes from the area where cones move the most, which is the BASS section. YET 99% of people, even Klipsch Heads insist on having Direct Radiator bass, where the greatest distortion and POWER DEMAND exists. A tweeter moves the least and creates the least distortion, yet that is the first place people put a horn. Backwards thinking if you ask me, AND it requires MORE POWER to do, hence the external amplifier requirements.

A separate amplifier will sound better than a receiver in most every case. A receiver should be viewed as a utilitarian convenience device that gets the job done with not much thought regarding sound quality. Think about it this way. 5 (or more) channels of amplification A preamp and/or processor A tuner All housed in a chasis weighing the same or less than a quality two channel amplifier. Physics dictate that performance will suffer. That said, remember that the preamplifier in a system contributes greatly to the end result. You will still be somewhat hamstrung by the preamp section of your HK receiver. But I still think you will improve the sound by going to an outboard amp.

Heard back from them today finally.. Said they wouldn't separate the speakers from that sub. Oh well... Offer them $2100 for the lot, and sell the RSW-15 for $800 here! Shouldn't last to long.... Roger

Putting down others gear is not acceptable. Different people like different things and want to put together what is right for them, not someone else. This forum prides itself on respect for one another opinion and diversity, and we encourage each other to build what suits that individual. I got to agree with reference_head on this one 100%.

Welcome to the Forum Krissy!!! I had the good fortune to visit the museum a couple of times and sign Miss Valeries sign in book. Please tell her Hi from all of us and my good friend Kevin Harmon. Miss Valerie will know him as the number 1 Paul Klipsch fan Dentist from Louisiana. Thankyou!! Roger Gordon

It would be nice if we could all sing some kind of petition. This is a disgrace.

Thanks to Krissy, I find it absolutely amazing that Mrs Klipsch is peaking around this forum keeping everyone updated. Fantastic...goose bumps...

Yes, Welcome!!!

separates are far from difficult. Personally, with all the crap they stuff into AVR's, the last thing i want to worry about after all of that is whether or not the amplifier within it is going to suffice. As long as your AVR has 7.1 or 7.2 channel pre-out, you can always add a power amp down the line or right off the bat. One of the main bumps in price for AVR's is the amount of amplifier power under the hood. To me, it is a quick diminishing value. A power amplifier, if it is a decent brand and well taken care of should perform and outlast your receiver/processor several times over. I find it comforting to know that I have the power i need no matter what and all i have to do is concentrate on the processing aspect when it comes to for upgrades. All speakers come with a RMS rating and a Peak rating. The RMS is a number representing the consistent amount of power that can be fed to the speaker without destroying it. The Peak value is an amount of power that the speaker can handle for an extremely short time, like, miliseconds and is something that might happen when there is an explosion in the movie. What you need to understand is that audio media tends to be dynamic and constantly changes. Sometimes its loud, sometimes its quiet and the power requirements constantly change to reproduce the audio tracks. You can power those THX speakers with 1 watt but it won't be very loud. The spiel above brings me to headroom and solid stat amplifiers vs tube amplifiers. Tube amplifiers are of years past and are still used today and considered to be HIFI. Typically lower in wattages and has tons of waste heat, tube amps are suited for 2 channel critical listening. Tubes are unique in that once you reach the peak power output, the signal is still OK. Essentially, the amplifier has run out of gas and can't give you more power. Enter the solid state amplifier. Transistors have replaced tubes because they do the same thing but at a much much smaller size. They aren't exactly the same thing but accomplish the same task differently. Unlike tubes amps, solid state (transistor amps) run out of gas too but they "clip" at peak power output whereas tubes don't. This means the signal starts to distort and is harmful to your speakers. You can achieve much higher wattages in a small package this way but the caveat is the amp will start clipping at/near max power output. This brings us to headroom. With solid state amps, a lot of us like to leave headroom which is excess power above the stats RMS of the speakers, If the RMS is 200 watts, you may want to pair an amp with 225 or 250 watts. This is purely rule of thumb and just a guide line. This rule of thumb pretty much ensures that your speaker will fail before your amp runs out of power. Klipsch speakers are some of the most efficient on the market and can produce the same volume as other speakers but with less power. This is awesome! Why? Because you don't necessarily need 250 watts per channel for your speakers, you could get away with half that. I run my RF-7's with 125 watts per channel and my ears will bleed before i need more power to them. Your in-walls are not as efficient as my 7's are but at 91-92 db its still not bad. Because your speakers are in sealed enclosures and have a lower sensitivity, having some better power behind them is much more crucial. For every 3 db increase in sensitivity, you need half the power to reach the same volume. Conversely, for every 3 db decrease in sensitivity, you need twice as much power to reach the same volume. In reality, when you are watching a movie, you aren't using much power until an explosion, gun shot or other really loud noises that are dynamic. Most receivers that are class AB put out about 40% less than it states. So for 100 watts X 5 channels, figure about 60 watts of power per channel. Class D is more efficient and tends to have outputs much closer to stated wattages. Power amps are a different story and you are really getting the power that you pay for. 60 watts is still a good deal of power and would work fine but you would benefit greatly by having some extra power at your disposal. There is a lot to learn about when it comes to audio and If you are fairly new, this is just an overload of info. We all get that and we are here to help! Just don't be intimidated. Take the bull by the horns! Since you are just getting your feet wet, find a receiver with Pre-Outs on the back, concentrate on what features you get and get it. The power that follows should be enough. If you find you want more power, adding a power amp will be a breeze!

Yes. I just meant that if you are having doubts about seperates, give just the receiver an exhaustive try and then decide if you want to add an outboard amp(Emotiva, Sherbourn, Parasound, Acurus, Rotel, etc.). Most here on the forum did not start with seperates, but their(our) gear evolved over time. Believe me, I am not talking you out of seperates(I have them) but if you are having doubts. Bill

Krissy, welcome to the forum!

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/ele/4271221860.html Did you see these? Says offers are welcome

Horns 247 reports "New Sheriff in Town". Should they say rather, the sheriff is near; you know, since it's unofficial?

Rookie, Don't pay attention to Shakey, he is just constipated! Quakana, Not ALL multichannel receivers sound bad for stereo, and you can't say you have listened to them all either. A good sub will ad another whole octave of music you have obviously never heard. Rookie, Speakers are by far the best bang for the buck you can spend on your system, so buy the best you can afford, and if that is the best sub you can afford then so be it, but I would suggest looking at the used market on ebay so you can get more sub for your money. That or consider building a kit if you have the room and the know how. Good Luck... Roger

So. Don't fire it down. Suspend a folded horn in the rafters and open the mouth through the ceiling. Inverted version of mounting your sub in the basement and firing it through the floor. Build a proper grill and most might not even notice it there.

Some people are stubborn and don't care. Its only their way case closed. And thats fine but geez no reason to call people lazy just because they use eq. My cornwalls sound way better eq then no eq. I mean they eq when they record. They eq when they play live shows.They eq their instruments. Why would it all of a sudden stop in someone home lol. If the steak tastes better to you with steak sauce use it lol

New avr power is good imo (unless its some cheap 200ish unit). The main problem with them for 2ch is in the set up. If someone runs a auto set up and uses that to run 2ch music it will sound imo pretty bad.Whats good for movies is not that great for 2ch. If you run pure direct then its no EQ and imo thats not that great unless you have a perfect room and speakers. IMO an EQ is a must for 2ch music. I know some will argue that but i need to tune it to what my ears like. And its never no eq. Just a little bump or dip here and their to get it right. Even back when i had all old silver kenwood amps and integrated amps i still needed a EQ to get it to sound really good. The bass, treble, and loudness switch/nobs just wasn't enough for my taste.

I am an old guy...and back in the day we didn't have SUB's and the speakers we used provided plenty of Bass. No offense to anyone here but I firmly believe the AV receivers of today are junk for 2 channel audio and that stating a "sub" is the solution is not the best answer and that is just My opinion. I think an old 2 channel amp/preamp is what is needed and that the AV receivers just cant provide really good 2 channel sound while playing music I would also keep in mind that if its Apple AAC files you are playing they are garbage to begin with and garbage in = garbage out You can get a sub and hook it up and IMO it will just mask the fact that if you turn the sub off....the music sounds well....not all that good.....if it starts off sounding not all that good...how can adding a bunch of bass make it sound good? Get the sound "good" first and then if you want yet more Bass...add subs

Would you get the II's over a an older pair with no upgrades? I have never heard the La Scala II. I heard that if you like La Scala, you will love the La Scala II (more of a good thing). The ones in MI are new, he dropped them off at the costumers house and picked them up the next day, the wife didn't approve. For me, it would come down to budget. I considered the La Scala II in MI, but I already have the La Scala and couldn't justify the extra cost (I would have had to sell to buy). The ones in MI are listed at the same price as the Chicago area ones (which are more than I would pay). I will be out of town until the 6th, but if you haven't bought anything by then, you can stop by for a listen to decide what sound you like. I have all the vintage Klipsch, you can compare the Heresy, Cornwall, La Scala, Belle, and Klipschorn. I also have the Quartet, Forte, Chorus II, and KLF-30.

I have a Mcintosh 7106 I would sell for $1000 plus any shipping or paypal fees, it was my "daily driver" till I went tubes recently. it is 6 100 watt channels but it has multi bridging options, I used it as a 3 channel 300 wpc to drive my Klipschorns with Belle center, Where are you located? I am in MA. I have the original double box, but it is missing the foams, I am sure it could be safely packed but it is heavy, Ed