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Unused power is just that, unused, no magic pixie dust in it. I can say without hesitation 8 watts is plenty of power for me and clipping is not a problem. Much more power has been tried and found not to be needed at my less than live concert listening levels. More power to you if that's your desire, but I'm not going to tell someone else they need more power and that it's going to transform their system. If they are happy with what they have and hear no signs of clipping all is good, no sense in losing sleep. Many have gone down in quantity and up in quality and experienced worthwhile improvements.

Sound quality improved today! 80% wool at a much better price than 100% would have been. 1/4" pad with 1" rug on top, will cut some of the pad scraps to level the 301s out again. So funny to think what 301 used to signify in a speaker to me when I was 20 something😂

The benefit is called "headroom". Any piece of music will vary in amplitude. Those intermittent, briefly louder instances are called "peaks", and require more power from the amplifier. So if your amp is playing at level "X" one of those peaks will come along and demand more of the amp's power to reproduce the louder signal. If the amp maxes out trying to faithfully reproduce that brief peak it will "clip", which means if you looked at the waveform on an oscilloscope it would look like an undulating wave but the tops and the bottoms of the wave will be flat. These flat portions indicate the amp is operating beyond its limits, which can damage the amp. If an amp has headroom, it has more power than is needed to reproduce those peaks. Some people consider headroom the ability to briefly generate considerably more power than its continuous output rating. Fair enough. Whether your amp has plenty of reserve power to drive your speakers or merely has the headroom to briefly reproduce those peaks the result is the same. Conversely, most speakers are rated in "Continuous" watts. Which means they can tolerate some peaks beyond that continuous rating as long as the amp has enough headroom to reproduce the wave faithfully. If the amp clips even if its output rating is below the continuous wattage rating of your speakers, when the amp generates that flat section described above, it is sending a DC voltage to your speakers. This is bad and if long enough in time can damage your speakers. The solution is to keep the volume down to a point where you don't hear distortion, even on those intermittent peaks. As long as you don't hear anything bad, you're not pushing your amp or speakers beyond their limits and don't risk damage to one or both.

An album released in 1986 Artist - Peter Gabriel Title - So Album ID - https://www.discogs.com/release/379036-Peter-Gabriel-So

plus one on the 1 watt, or the right few watts. 99.9% of the time I (we on here) only need, want, and use a watt or less. Most are looking for better sound, not (only) louder.

Well I was shocked yet not shocked when I heard of Richard Betts death from cancer earlier today. That guy was something else. He played anything handed to him and his fretwork was amazing. Quiet yet always came up with something funny if you knew that grin of his. Ramblin Man? He flat nailed it everytime I ever saw him play it. It was just the way he rolled like the rest of the guys. Southern rock? The Allman Brothers were the words that rolled off so many tongues. It's just another sad day. Ugh Forrest Richard Betts (December 12, 1943 – April 18, 2024) was an American guitarist, singer, songwriter and composer best known as a founding member of the Allman Brothers Band. Early in his career, he collaborated with Duane Allman,[1] introducing melodic twin guitar harmony and counterpoint which "rewrote the rules for how two rock guitarists can work together, completely scrapping the traditional rhythm/lead roles to stand toe to toe".[2] Following Allman's death in 1971, Betts assumed sole lead guitar duties during the peak of the group's commercial success in the mid-1970s. Betts was the writer and singer on the Allmans' hit single "Ramblin' Man". He also gained renown for composing instrumentals, with one appearing on most of the group's albums, including "In Memory of Elizabeth Reed" and "Jessica" (which was later used as the theme to Top Gear). The band went through a hiatus in the late 1970s, during which time Betts, like many of the other band members, pursued a solo career and side projects under such names as Great Southern and The Dickey Betts Band. The Allman Brothers reformed in 1979, with Dan Toler taking the second guitar role alongside Betts. In 1982, they broke up a second time, during which time Betts formed the group Betts, Hall, Leavell and Trucks, which lasted until 1984. A third reformation occurred in 1989, with Warren Haynes now joining Betts on guitar. After Betts was ousted from the band in 2000 over a conflict regarding his continued drug and alcohol use; he never played with them again nor appeared with other former band members for reunions or side projects. With the death of Betts in April 2024, Jaimoe is the last living founder of the Allman Brothers Band. He was inducted with the band into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1995[3] and also won a best rock performance Grammy Award with the band for "Jessica" in 1996.[4] Betts was ranked No. 58 on Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time list in 2003, and No. 61 on the list published in 2011. His first solo lp from 1974 went down and cranked big time this afternoon. Ya think he couldn't do it all? Riiiiight, not a big hit but one of my favs. Yea, the Brothers chimed in on that one just about every time they played Cleveland. Here ya go @JohnJ. Put your feet up. Here's the full lp. The Brothers and "Ramblin Man?" Check out his intro to the first song on this lp. God's speed brother! RIP!

This conversation is inspiring me to do some critical Heresy IV listening between my Decware and Sansui 5000x. Great discussion!

Low power will clip earlier when paired with the wrong loudspeaker. With 104 db speakers you will never clip an 8 watt amp at any level you could withstand for any amount of time. It's all about pairing the right amplifier with the right speaker. If you don't get that part right, all bets are off.

If the amplifier gets the job done with a little to spare and sounds better to the user..... I use less than 1/10 of a watt average with CW 1s in the living room and less than 1/2 of a watt in my more nearfield system in my spare bedroom with 90 dB speakers. Yes I have heard music played at high levels on a great system and like a couple of things about it (not for long though), but overall I enjoy music so much more at lower levels.

I have two amplifiers. One is 8 wpc (300B) and the other is a whopping 15 wpc (EL84). Neither one comes close to clipping in my system when cranking any music I desire. A lot of this is because of well designed power supplies. Not all flea watt amps are created equal. Once you hear one with some balls, you'll understand. I don't give two s&*ts about home theater. Not in my room.

As long as it’s a good working K-55m you wouldn’t tell a difference.

Cool John, thinking alright, he knows we await...

The battery in my key fob died today. I did not find a way to get my ride started with that key that comes in it so I'm stuck again. Nothing in the manual, piece of plastic put in the dash where it could have been for the previous years model. Yikes, prime did come in handy with more than movies and tv shows. Got next day delivery for this.

That would be TDL!

Quit with the politics. Ruins everything.

I’ve wanted to blow up a pair of 901 just to see.

~ For maximum volume, the amp should be at least 2x the speaker's rating. It is in writing.

Jeesh @Dave1291 stay safe.

lemme guess..the shipping back and forth cost more than the repair? Let's go Brandon!!

In cycling related news: The fork on the Cannondale Prophet Lefty that I bought a while back was leaking oil. Unfortunately Cannondale has changed hands 2+ times since the bike was built and no longer services old Lefty forks. Fortunately there's a company in New York, Mendon Cyclesmiths, that services older Cannondale Lefty and HeadShok forks. I sent the fork off to them and it should be arriving today. I'm really looking forward to riding it as much as possible now that the weather is getting nicer. I didn't want to ride it too much with the fork leaking oil because these forks brand new are $1,000+ and I only paid $300 for the bike. Surprisingly, they only charge $85 for rebuiliding the fork!

Just got home from my eclipse chase. Planned on Texas but ended up in Bloomington, IN. Still processing my images but here is good sampling. Tap an image for better resolution.

I do hear what your saying and understand about headroom, peaks vs. continuous, and clipping. All good points. All correct within context. When I'm using the example of an 8 wpc amplifier, my context includes a Klipsch Forte III with 99 dB effeciency. That 99 dB is LOUD by pretty much any standard...loud enough to damage your ears with extended exposure. So, let's say there is a peak in the source material that needs to be twice as loud. That means the amp has to deliver a whopping 2 watts to the speaker. Twice as loud again, 4 watts. Twice as loud again, 8 watts. Now we have to worry about clipping, but we are at 111 dB. And, unless I'm mistaken, an amplifier that can deliver 100 watts will still only deliver 8 watts to achieve that 111 dB. Of course, if we were driving a speaker with 80 dB efficiency, it would be an entirely different context and way more power would be required. Still, how loud the speakers can get is not really the question. Do those additional unused watts (thanks @82 Cornwalls) contribute anything to the overall quality of the sound, or does the output capability strictly affect volume. I'm leaning to the idea that it is only SPL and other factors like current, topology, etc. are responsible for other aspects of the overall "sound".

The 15 & the 16 Accords could start with that physical key next to the ignition, the 15 had a place to insert it. This is an 18 Acura RDX, fob battery must be totally dead, old fashioned key will only unlock and lock the doors to how they're set up. Duracell was only a few months old, not keeping it near the wifi in the BR at night anymore. Sure my neighbor would have run me the 4 miles to the crossroads if I asked. Not sure kroger has that cr2032 battery though. I have what I need here now. I've been going 10 miles further and saving almost 15% at the foodlion. More time, less $. NObody has good beef around here so that doesn't gauge my loyalties anymore. I see cows everywhere though, thinking deep freezer in my future! Will ask questions when I'm ready with that!

No criticism to anyone else’s setup , I’m sure your system sounds awesome . Low watt amps will clip earlier, that’s just the math . I like power , always have , in cars , motorcycles etc. Can’t an amplifier be excellent ,and powerful ? I agree that if we’re talking strictly music , then power isn’t as big an issue ,but I also believe that some people take the low power idea a little too far , and that the power of an amplifier is an important consideration.

Updating the story of this Sunfire Cinema Grand Amp. Just in case anyone needs one of these units repaired, and would like a solid repair/refurb service recommendation. You will be well advised to check out Nelionaudio.com Greg is aces. Once back in regular use, the amp performed flawlessly for months. Long story shortened; the electrical transformer that feeds our house, shorted out due to vines growing up the pole, and into the wiring. Only one piece of equipment in the house was damaged during the rather spectacular “event”. Yep, you guessed it. So back it went, to Greg at Nelion audio, after an extensive repair, at a more than fair cost, it’s once again back in service, and as good as new. I’ve recently sent my Carver M-1.0T to them for refurbishment & upgrade to their M-1.0T mkII opt002 specs, which ups the power from 200 watts to 460, and claims to silence the power-on, “thump” that these amps are known for. They quickly performed the work, and returned the amp. I’ve not had the chance to get it back into the family room system, but my expectations are high. I’ll follow up once I’ve put everything back in place.

Low wattage amps are enough power for a lot of Klipsch users due the the high sensitivity of the speaker and size. It is like a sports car, just because it can most people won't be running their system that hard toward clipping. With room gain of easy 10 db, there is some free headroom. .

I did scroll my Dave1291 but have to figure out how to get into my old account. I'm pretty sure I have it but not really positive. Think we exchanged them when I went out to Phoenix to see the youngest. That means nothing since I didn't have time to head south so we never talked. I dunno but I hope his ears are burnin! Survived the tornado damage. Did some nosin w/the rest of the town this evening and there was quite a bit more damage than I thought. Made the CBS evening news tonight and the Columbus CBS affiliate, which suprised me. There were 3 EF1's and two EF0's in Ohio. This one was one of the EF 1's. The other two EF 1's were up around Cleveland. The EF 0's down in Southern Ohio. Drove by my old place, which was a 2 story double brick built in 1917. I loved that house. Rock solid, hot water heat and quarter-sawn oak with all the old pocket doors and oak cabinets in the kitchen. The veneer was absolutely beautiful. No cracks and done the right way. Had a maple in the back yard and planted some blue spruce on the side to block some of the noise & view from a school across the street. They're prolly a good 30' tall now cause the guy never topped them out. End result? Two are on a major lean being held up by some power lines. They're gonna have to go. Every lil out building ppl had was history along with a few unattached garages and trees down everywhere. Then the house pic I posted. The 2 story building downtown next to Wendys had no roof along with 4-5 other buildings downtown. Then it went right across into the residential side of older homes close by w/more damage.eventually headed outta town and lifted up. Crazy for sure.

Exactly!

Not that I've heard @billybob

Eight watts is not much power , it’s a level of power that will leave many systems prone to clipping, especially at any appreciable distance. Certain music and special effects can be enhanced to an exhilarating level of pleasure and intensity when played loud . We may not want to listen at the higher levels for long , but sometimes shear unclipped power is the secret recipe for delivering a moving and memorable experience . All things being equal ,power is a good thing ,as is the high efficiency that our speakers deliver .

COOL! I want to hear your thoughts!

"MAXIMUM of 116 dB continuous" Me: "I use these when listening to music." Someone smarter than me: "Why don't you just turn it down?......a lot" Me: "I never thought of that."

Thanks @geoff. and @Woofers and Tweeters for bringing up the maximum volume issue. I've been thinking about power needs at reasonable listening levels, but this does add another wrinkle, doesn't it? My Forte IIIs are rated at 99 dB/2.83V/1m (just looked this up so I'm correcting my earlier mistake), and have a MAXIMUM of 116 dB continuous. To achieve that maximum requires something a little shy of 64 watts. The specs also show maximum power ratings of 100/400 watts. I assume that means 100 continuous or 400 peak, so we're pretty much in that 2X range. Personally, I have no interest in pushing my speakers to 116 dB, but I suppose in a huge room with a listening position pretty removed from the speakers, that might be somewhat reasonable. I take my measurements from my listening position and consider anything above 90 dB to be really, really loud, but it isn't painful and it sounds quite good. That is still probably below 1 watt of amplifier output. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm enjoying this discussion. I appreciate the participation.

Headroom baby, woofers love watts.

The same goes for audio equipment: We want to use all the watts we bought.

https://maine.craigslist.org/ele/d/south-portland-klipsch/7738442185.html No pics, looks legit. Also has RS & RC

For the price if someone wanted a new tape player it’s probably a better choice. Fiio seems from my experience to make decent stuff.

I have a couple decks that use cassettes, but these two are digital.

I agree with “good, solid, high end” part. But we part ways with the high power part. My 300B amp sounds bigger and bolder than amps with 10 x the power. Of course it would fall square on its face with the wrong speakers.

Me neither..that's what everybody says..then one day they turn around and their wallet is empty and they can't feed their family.

It was $38 to ship to NY. Mendon pays for half the return shipping cost. I have no involvement or interest in politics.

Switching amps or power supply can result in a sonic difference. For instance with a tube switching from triode mode to ultralinear will be perceived immediately due to the increase power. Bass control is easier with SS gear compared to tube gear. This warmth or sterile terminology is not the best wording. Some tube amps appear more warm due to distortion for the most part and suit high sensitivity speakers. SS, better control of all frequencies for the most part. I don't compare my SS gear to the tube gear. I like class A, class A/B, Digital and tube gear. One is not better than the other, it's the user's implementation toward their goals.

Whoa, excitement in Duckburg this afternoon. Power company txtd me and said they were ready for storms if need be. Blah it was about 74 yet they said severe storms were moving thru. So the more it looked like rain I thought I'd slip down to Wendy's and grab a salad. Backed out and it started raining, by the time I went the mile to Wendy's it was pouring. Two cars pulled in before me so I waited and it REALLY started pouring, My turn at the lil box to order and it hit. Power went out, pouring rain, and the winds were actually lifting both sides of the car up bouncing it. Talk about a wtf moment? Felt like I was on a coaster ride. Saw the blue ball of an exploding transformer a couple blocks away and bypassed the two cars waiting for their food. Traffic was at a standstill so slipped out safely, bypassing a big tree limb on the main drag heading home. Got home and found out I rode out a tornado that cut a swath thru town. Not too terrible but it was bad. The worst part so far was some guys two story house was moved 10 yards off the foundation and took his truck along for the ride.. He was upstairs sleeping. lol That would be his driveway running thru his house, which is relatively close to Wendy's downtown. My hood on the South end of town is 100% fine. No power pretty much everywhere along the route it took across town. Trees down, roofs off and a patient engineer in his train sitting til he can move North again. Prolly danced around for a couple miles the way I'm hearing it. Don't know too much yet but it sounds nasty for a lot of people. More spot news to follow if it's worth it. Carry on! Jimmy Olsen Cub reporter

A young Great Horned Owl posing on our fence. Another very close shot. When he was even younger, he almost took my hat off while I was working out back. I ducked just before he grabbed my hat. . I was wearing a grey one. Maybe thought a bunny on my head? Never seen anything like that before. Wife got a kick out of seeing that happen. Probably would have taken half my head off though to.. I didn't laugh at first...😃

Blocking the shop door. My wife stopped on our drive part way up, walked to our front door and told me to look out back at the shop driveway.. (wanted me to get a pic or two)He was pretty accustomed to us around here as he ate everything in sight anyway.. Pig. He let me get very close for pics of him. A couple of summers ago. We have a lot of critters around here. He knew the season was not in session yet ☺️

That's good! I'd steer clear of snakes that look like those. Now a Chinese Water Dragon? He was sooo cool until the day he got out of his aquarium and could run 30mph+ on his back legs around that house! They aren't herbivores either! Have teeth like you'd expect from a dragon. You have to buy little white mice for them to hunt and eat!

Acquired yesterday. Drove through those eerie amber colors of that eclipse between Knoxville and Nashville to split up the trip. Actually these have a well respected provenance! I'd have to check before I laid that out. * @Dave A refurbished these prior to the last owner! Been a long time since I've have Klipsch that would crank! These do it so articulately and with a lower than usual frequency response that I disabled my SB-3000, it can only be adjusted down to 30Hz. The K-48-Es trounce that without a problem. The double pleated shades & latex pillows won't cover this environment for this so I'll be taking care of that next.

More rain this week... Red Rock Canyon

This 4 pics sequence was done by a friend of mine, it´s quiet creative imo .