efzauner

I was about to say something similar.. Definitely using an L pad would improve things in the L shaped room.

ok so why does this autoformer T2A have inductance specs? Do these not play a role at all? I would expect the autoformer to have a Thevenin circuit of voltage source with series resistance and the inductance of the coil. .... have to research this more... tranformer equivalent circuits and inductance...leakage inductance etc.

in what way? just assembled things incorrectly?

what did the ALKs do for imaging? is that built by yourself from the ALK schematic?

OK so lots of side by side Forte vs (custom ported) Heresy. Sound level around 90dB. Very close in tonal balance. The Fortes just a tad warmer and louder. But @#*&% again the Heresy win out on imaging. Voices are straight down the middle. I close my eyes and listen to the entry chords of song and focus down the middle and BANG the vocals are there. With the Fortes they are just more outboard. Fortes a bit better than my KLF20s. For most of my classic rock material the base is a wash between them. Why are these Heresys that I got 15 years ago for $400Cdn so damn good? I only have been listening to them lately... basement storage since then. Sort of like an old girlfriend that you see again and say "damn, shoulda never looked around, she was a keeper. " Some pics of the Heresys. The mods are a 29uF cap across the woofer (similar to Type E2? ) and a 3"diam x 2 1/4 " long port. The drivers are k22EF (square magnet) K55V and K77. Some more internal bracing and putty on the horns that are front mounted. The workmanship is amazing down to the silk screened front emblem and rear label. The builder also put in a multi level discrete switched L pad attenuator for mids and tweets. Some pics:

I just picked up a pair of Forte 1 and was going thru the ALK forte xover design and found myself here. Are you saying that the Forte also has motor board ungluing problems? I just redid my KLF20s, what a job. I go the Forte because I was not happy with the overal sound of the KLF20s compared to my Heresys. The price was right so I could not pass. How is the new cross over for your ForteII vs the original? thanks

Got them down and listening now. I like them. Some where in between the Heresy and KLF20. But they to have the attack/edgyness that the KLFs seem to lack. I will have do a side by side with the Hs. I passed on a pair of Forte IIs for $450C as they where really in bad shape. lots of veneer delam.. So when these came up I jumped on them. The poor guy has an entrance vestibule as his listening room. And good on the passing them down. I gave my niece and her hubby an old pair of Heresy's and a Pioneer SA8500 and a TT as a house warming gift. He is happy!

Adding to my confusion of Heresy and KLF20s.. Just picked up a almost mint pair of original Fortes! $500 Canadian. I had to jump on them! Now how to get them into the house and down to the basement with out the wife knowing.... Flowers, champagne and a spa gift certificates should do it! https://www.kijiji.ca/v-electronics/ouest-de-lile-qc/klipsch-fortes/1321970360?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

The profit on these must be better than Bitcoin!

yeah thanks PZ, my bad, it was late. I should know this. The Series VC inductance will be open at HF and regulate the upper LP, with the cap setting the lower frequency HP.. What is odd is that the KLF30 xover is at 825 while the KLF20 is at 750. One would expect the KLF20 needs a steeper lower cutoff. The big 12 inch woofers must be able to go higher than the 10s or are they trying to hide some roughness of the mid between 750 and 825? Everyone says the KLF30s are a cut above the 20s maybe this is why. Both have the same power handling so the extra inductor of the 30s are not there for increased power handling... Still trying to fix my KLF20s, took them apart again. the xovers look fine. May get Crites autoformer and add a terminal block/solder wires to drivers.etc.

Most klipsch crossovers use an autoformer to reduce mid (and sometimes HF) level. But what provides the inductance for mid upper frequency cutoff? None of the posts seems to cover this. My KLF20, and most other heritage do not have a mid inductor in parallel with the mid driver. The KLF30 does. Is it the natural horn rolloff? Would modifying my KLF 20 crossover to be closer to the KLF30 (while adjusting autoformer taps) make much of a difference?

Investigating the differences between the Crites crossover and OEM. I see a different autoformer and LF iron core inductor. I looked at my crossovers pics that I took while recaping and there where no switched wires. I redid the solder points while I was recaping with Solen and Dayton. and also tightened up the connectors before installing them. So not sure why they can be so off. How much better his autoformer? should I move this discussion to the mods subforum?

has anyone stated the obvious that the KLF 20 schematic is wrong? Or is this.. unnecessarily stating the obvious... The left side of the 1.25 cap on terminal 5 of autoformer should be connected to the + input. The mid horn is in phase with the woofer. (the KLF30 schematic has it correct) The tweeter is connected out of phase. Seems some models have the tweeter in phase. (chorus and CW2 is in phase.. Chorus2 is out of phase) What gives? And.. what would the additional parallel inductor provide on the KLF30 Mid? I presume a steeper slope. Since the 30s seem to be a big improvement over the 20s, would adding a similar inductor to the 20s be worth it?

Gone..

please do update us when you get them installed ! In the meantime I will recheck things.

The Hs are on 16 inch stands..approx. So not exacly same height Mids/highs about 6 inches lower. I can double check the crossovers. They seemed fine when I re-caped them.

I contacted the guy. one of them has some serious veneer issues on top. he is an hour away from me. hmm.. what to do what to do. this is the pic he sent me

More side by side. Using my old Sure Obstacle course LP on the phasing test. The voice just seemed to sound dead center with the Heresys while hard to place with the KLF 20s. I checked the woofer and midrange phase/wiring and they where OK. I did not check the tweeters. Not sure how they would make a difference on the low male voice. I also tried this guitar test with the same subjective outcome http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php I also tried this test of panning across left to right. with this test the KLF seemed fine. http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_ledr.php Still somehow the Heresys are just more easy to listen to even without the bass response. It is hard to explain. ugh. what do I do... get rid of the KLF20s and the C7 center (replace with heresy parts...)

Hello At what serial numbers was the KLF hot glue/melamine delamination problem fixed? or was it ever? My SN are 3106982326 and I had to fix them, motor boards and back almost completely detached. I purchased them used 2 years ago knowing that they needed to be fixed. There is a pair for sale with SN KLF20BS99190195 j seller claims there is no problem... Just wanted to see if that is at all probable. Thanks

LOL... Why you want to sell me a pair?

I am looking for an answer to my question! When if at all, was the problem fixed on the production line!

At what serial numbers was the KLF hot glue/melamine problem fixed? or was it ever? My SN are 3106982326 and I had to fix them, almost completely delaminated There is a pair for sale with SN KLF20BS99190195 j seller claims there is no problem... thanks

"not directly in the audio path" is non-sequitur. Just because the cap is not in series with the woofer does not mean its value and performance is not part of the filter transfer function. Nobody says that an inductor in parallel with a tweeter in a 12dB/octave LC network is "not directly in the audio path" In the case of the KP480, those capacitors form a 150Hz High Pass 6dB/octave passive crossover in case you want to add the subs to an existing system with only one channel amp. You connect the output of the amp to the sub in, and then your wideband speakers to the HF output. They only get frequencies above 150Hz. You could use a good quality 200uF also. I gather they used 2x100uF because a single 200uF of audio quality may be hard to find. These subs are for Pro use and the power handling is considerable. You would want a low ESR cap here. The small bypass may be there to counter some stray inductance in the larger caps that would attenuate higher frequencies up to 20KHz. I doubt it is to reduce ESR as the big caps typically are power supply caps and have generally lower ESR than smaller caps. With the low cost of modern digital pro power amps with built in electronic crossovers, I gather the passive KP480 may be less used now.

So the KLF 20s are back online with repaired cabinets and Crites titanium tweeter diaphragm. Side by side I sill like the Heresys better. More detail, more edgy bass guitar and drums, more open sound. The KLF20s seem muddy boomy in comparison, overly loud midrange. Yes I know the KLF is a few dB louder. Any thoughts? Would the Simply Speakers titanium mid change this? Or is the the 12 woofer in the Heresy vs the 2x 10 inch in the KLF.

Glad you like them! I just did the same. Re glued front and backs, installed Crites tweeter and changed caps.