FirebirdTN

Sorry, I wasn't very clear on that...Being driven by a Sony 1000ES. There is only one SLX model as far as I know (the synergy series). The reason I mentioned upgrading the mains when disapointed with the center channel, was *if* I replaced the center channel with the reference model (RVX-42), then I would want to replace the mains for good timbre match. I doubt the RVX-42 would match too well with the Quintets LOL. But overall, am satisfied with their performance for movies, it is the center channel that is giving me fits. After exhaustive research, and a little experiment this moring, I found that I don't think a new center speaker is necessarily going to cure my problem afterall. I have two very serious issues that I have to contend with. 1) Speakers are too high, causing ceiling reflections, and possible TV screen reflections. Since my TV is inwall with a fireplace below it, not much I can do about this... 2) The BIGGER problem is although I have all speakers aimed and toed toward the "sweet spot", there isn't actually a chair there. This is just a modest little living room setup. What I have found is my center channel has a VERY narrow horizontal axis of good response. Get out of this very narrow horizontal field (which happens to be my case), and it sounds as if the tweets just stopped working alltogether. From the research i have done, it seems that this poor horizontal off-axis response is prevalent with horizontally oriented MTM designs. I'll figure something out... -Alan

A few years ago I bought my first "HT" speakers; The Klipsch Quintet IIs based on how impressed I was with my Pro-Medias, which at the time just completely sounded BETTER than my "home stereo" system. I also purchased a capable sub as well (not the matching Klipsch). For movies, it sounded pretty good, but for music, they sound NOTHING LIKE the pro-medias. No big deal; I figured I would eventually purchase a pair of decent floor standing speakers for music only. I recently did (more on this in a second). Back on the movies, I did often have problems with center channel vocal clarity. I tried all the usual things; position, calibration, bumping the center channel up 3db over the mains, etc. Everything I did was an improvement, although not a major one; more like baby steps. I then decided to replace the center channel and did with a SLX from best buy. Again, and improvement, but *still* occasionally have trouble understanding dialog. I never really understood why... Then I purchased my floor standers for music. They are sooo clear and detailed, that now I understand why....and from further reading on the net it seems that most "HTIB" speakers suffer from a mild mid-bass "boost" to give the appearance that the tiny speakers are larger than they really are. And when I listen to my HT speakers vs. my floor standers, they sound "muddy". Don't get me wrong, the Quintets are fine for what they are; I just desire better. BUT, the most important factor in my new upcoming purchase is dialog clarity. Sooooo, that leads me to where I am now. Considering basically the Reference satellites. My big question: I have heard over and over and over again, that small speakers just can't do what big ones can. I do understand that; I am not expecting monster bass from tiny speakers; what I am looking for is exceptional midrange/upper frequency response with perfect clarity in the vocal region. Just how much of an improvement will the reference satellites be over what I have now? Will it be a monster leap, or will they still suffer from the same problem that most HTIB speakers do? Also, how good of a match is the RVX-42 I think it is to the RSX-4s, instead of the normal RCX-4? Thanks, -Alan -EDIT- I forgot to mention, due to my layout, Floor standers and Bookshelves are OUT of the quesiton. It HAS to be satellites only.

---------------- On 2/20/2004 1:13:01 AM Ou8thisSN wrote: I think the only reason you're saying that is not because you're thinking what is best for Klipsch, but what is best for YOU. YOu want people to know that you spent big bucks on your system, and want no chance for them to interpret your stuff as the sub-par simply because the same company also sells at Best Buy. Its really about your respective egos, and the chance of someone underestimating the power of either your pocketbook or the quality Klipsch products can produce. What is wrong if they sell some of their stuff without the same quality of the reference line at BB, to move more product, so they can profit more, and perhaps invest that into R&D and design better speakers for the reference lines? ---------------- That is the silliest thing I have ever heard. If your happy with the SOUND and PERFORMANCE of your system, then who cares? But if you buy product "band names" because of EGO or to "Show Off" how much money you invested in your system, then I think you are buying your products for the WRONG reasons. If its about EGO, and not about the acoustical reproduction, then just buy another brand that you can't get at any B&M stores. Now, if the Quality of the Reference line suffers, that is ONE thing; but why worry about the "reputation" just because they are selling a lower priced speaker package at a place that is easy to obtain them. I am not rich. HT is not my primary hobby. I am just an average consumer, that has been looking for "above the average" components. Personally, I have my eyes set on a pair of RF5s, but my biggest complain is, I have ONE dealer that doesn't even stock speakers within a 100mi radius. Now, with the top of the line, I wouldn't expect to be able to pop down to the local sears and pick them up, but for a lower end line, I don't see any harm... Okay, I kind of got off on a different rant...My main point was, so long as the QUALITY doesn't suffer, who cares about the REPUTATION. Let the masses keep buying the Synergies, and when you want to show off what a REAL Klipsch sounds like (Reference line), let the product speak for itself. -EDIT- I think I mis-read your post...I think we actually agree on this point...OPPPS... -Alan

IMHO, the Quintets are, for whatever reason, not very well regarded with most of the folks on the forum. I have seen many questions about them go unanswered... Anyway, I have them, and I actually like them. They do a fine job at their intended role: A small unobtrusive, great looking, good sounding speaker, much better than the competiton at almost half the price. That said, I just don't think its possible for a "satellite" speaker to aproach the reproduction quality of a larger speaker. Bookshelves will definately give you better sound. I think the big problem with small satellites (just from the ones I have heard) are the reproduction of frequencies between the 80-120 Hz range. Set your crossover too high to let the sub produce that area the satellites lack, and you can "localize" the sub, which if its not relatively close to your display, is a bad thing. Set the cross-over to low to prevent sub localization, and you are left with a "hole" in the frequency response. I love my Quintets, and they are perfect for my needs, but unless you have to have the smallest possible speaker, you can do better. -Alan P.S. The only real complaint I have, is the center channel seems "weak" for somereason, but I haven't calibrated yet, as I am STILL waiting for my SVS.

Don't worry about it... I basically addressed this in another thread, but you have to remember MOST folks here are enthusiests. HT is their main hobby. You usually put forth your most efforts and most money in whatever your main hobby is (regardless if its building models, making train sets, rocketry, etc). Anyway, I am one of those few I guess that don't really "fit in" here because HT isn't my main hobby. I still like to come around though, because there is a wealth of good info (and some snake oil as well) that can be learned from those whose main focus is HT. My system is pretty laughable as well, but you know what? I don't care-I love it, and that is the ONLY person I want to impress-ME! -Alan

LOL, I had to chime in... I do alot of lurking, and at first, it does get a little nerve racking to see the "penis envy" posts, but I've gotten over it. No big deal. You have to remember, most people have a hobby (or two, or three, etc). And usually your main hobby is where you spend most of your effort, money, etc. In my case, computers are my main hobby, not HT. So I don't have anywhere NEAR as good as system as most here. Matter of fact, I'd dare say my HT is probably on the very bottom of the posters here. Doesn't bother me though-It does what I want it to, sounds good to me, is astehtically pleaseing, and didn't require me to take out a second mortgage. Aside from computers, and electronics, I am also really wanting to become a private pilot-now you talk about an expensive hobby!!! Now, having said all that-My Quintets are better than yours na na naaaaa na naaa na! j/k -Alan

From a newbys standpoint (both in regards to the forum, AND HT): I understand where your coming from. My main hobby is computers, NOT HT. However, I have frequented a BUNCH of forums trying to get educated, and buy the best prodects for MY needs that fall within MY budget (i.e ALOT lower than most of the posters here). I REALLY appreciate this kind of forum. In all the forums I have been too (including the many many dozens of PC forums), this kind of open attitude towards discussion of competing products is very rare, but very welcom in my eyes. You guys will laugh I'm sure, but how I got my start into wanting a nice, inexpensive HT was by buying a set of computer speakers for my computer. I had never even HEARD of Klipsh until that point. For "computer" speakers, I was totally blown away. They sounded so good, it put my then current "home entertainment" system to shame. I was sold on Klipsh, and chose the Quintets for my budget HT. I love them and have no regrets. But with a rather large living room, I figured I should be able to do better than the matching KSW sub for a little more money, without breaking the bank. There was only two subs companies that kept coming up repeatedly in every forum I went to. They both fell in my budget, but I picked the one that seemed to be the most popular, and most asthetically pleasing to me. It was a little high for what I have seen when comparing the subs in the local B&M stores. I honestly didn't even know there was a whole community of "high end" equipment out there. The only brands I had ever heard of were McIntosh, and those at the local B&M. Okay....I am going off on a rant here LOL...Bottom line, I know its dicomforting to see the Klipsh forums used for what seems like advertising space for the competition, but I for one appreciate all the posts (positive AND negative). Kudos to the Klipsch forum for helping me make an informed purchase to get the most for my dollar. Oh, and rest assured, when I am ready for a pair of Floor-Standers for music duties, there is only one brand I am even considering... Klipsch...I'll be back... -Alan

My 2 cents: Get the Quintets. I was in the exact same boat as you. I had my eyes set on the bose accusimass setup (my brother has it). After researching many, MANY HT forums, and doing lots of research, I came to the conclusion that the Quintets were a much better buy, and they sound damn good to boot! If you *can* save up a little more, sure go ahead and do so. Better speakers can be had for more money. But if your limited in your budget, the Quintets aint bad, and I think they are certainly better that the bose. For whatever reason, the Quintets are like the bastard children of Klipsch on this forum. Very few people will talk about them, and even less will answer questions about them. Oh, about the reference satellites...oh, I have NO DOUBT they are superior to the little Quintets. But I doubt you can get them for *not much more money* than the Quintets. You can get a comple 5.1 set of Quintets for what a pair of the reference series costs. Couple that with the fact that there are still people waiting on the availability of the center channel (months of waiting)...i wouldn't do it, unless your willing to fork out the extra cash, and possibly wait for their availability. If you can save and afford it, yes, they would be the better speaker, but make no mistake: Your going to spend about double for them. IMHO, the Quintets do a fine job at their intended role: A good sounding, unobtrusive, small speaker. Much better than the competition. But do keep in mind, these are small speakers. No matter how good they sound, they will never be a large speaker (such as a bookshelf/floorstander). They are not an "audiophile" grade speaker for sure, but what they do, they do well, and I don't think you can find anything as good as they are for as little money as they command. -Alan

Heck, as cheap as they are, you might as well go ahead and pick up a set from ebay. I'm sort of in the same boat as you, only a little worse off: I have a 5.1 set of Quintet IIs in SILVER. NOBODY ever sells a PAIR of silver ones-I have scoured ebay, ubid, my local dealer, etc. I am probably going to have to buy a whole second 5.1 set just for the two I need, and ebay the rest (or keep as spares since I have teenagers that don't know what clipping is). -Alan -EDIT- I just noticed your looking for a quintet CENTER. They do occasionally pop up on ebay, but not often. Just have to have patience, but you might try a satellite instead. I am no audiophile, so I am very happy with my Quintet system, even though compared to the systems on this forum, its pretty laughable. But the one complaint I have, is that the ceneter channel seems weak compared to the sats, but it could just be placement, and I haven't calibrated yet (still awaiting my SVS PB1-ISD).

My mistake. I thought OFC coppers main benefit was being less suseptible to corrosion. So there is no added benefit? I know there is the thought that PURE copper conducts better, but aside from that, there is no benefit of anti-corrosive properties? Too bad. (You do learn something new every day!) -Alan

I recently bought a STRDA1000ES receiver, and love it. I was on a tight budget and it fit the bill. However, I am by no means brand loyal. I can belive the specs, but the ONE thing I didn't see was how flat that frequency response is. How many dBs down is the response at 70Khz? Heck, for that matter how many dBs down is it at 20Khz? I don't know if there are any "laws" that would prevent a manufacturer from misleading its specs, but to me, a frequecny response without including how far down the extremeties of the response curve is are worthless. I am not meaning to diss the speakers, I would just like to see more detailed specs. -Alan

One last thing, For what its worth, even though I cannot hear any difference between cables, I think there is something to be said for OFC copper. In the past, I have had the ends of speaker wires turn green. It was the Monster stuff. I have no idea why it did that-I know that all metal will oxidize at some point, but this was in my house. Humidity levels? Heat? Who knows, but it *may* be worth the extra expense to keep this from happening to you. The only thing that I did that *may* have sped up the process back then, was tin the ends with solder. It keeps the ends from fraying, but I don't do that anymore, and do not recommend it. Tining wires has its place, but I don't think speaker connections is one of them. Whether you hear a difference between zip cord, or OFC copper ultimately will be up to your ears, but the added benefit of anti-corrosion protection may be worth the extra expense. -Alan

om13934 Okay, I appologize for my comment. I do NOT have the experience that everyone else here does. but I do posses the knowledge. I have just been lurking around ALOT of forums within the past 6 months to a year, and if its one discussion that will heat things up more than any other, this is it. And since I had not seen even one reply from you since the start of this thread, I mistakenly took you for trying to "stir the pot". My sincerest appologies. Now, even with my very little experience, but 15+ years of electronics knowledge, if you want me to share my opinion, here it is: Question: Is there a difference amoung speaker cables: Answer: YES. You can measure the many parameters of speaker cables with test equipment, and see an obvious difference between differing cables. The more importsnt question: Can you *HEAR* the difference amoung cables: Answer: Cannot be answered easily. For the majority of the population, the answer would be No, they cannot distinguish one type from another. However, it *may* be possible that a small percentage with exceptional hearing might hear a difference. But how can you prove it? You can't do it easily. Everyones hearing is different. Just because I don't hear a difference, doesn't mean I can without a doubt say that Joe Blow can't either, without a serious in-depth hearing test of Joe Blow, to see just how well his sensitivity, range, and frequency respone are and comparing that to the subtle differences between cables, to see if there is enough difference that Joe has the sensitivity to hear. In my case, I cannot hear the difference between one cable and the next, and am generally of the "non-believers" camp. But since everyones hearing is different, I won't completely rule out the possibility. I know what my hearing is like, but I cannot argue what someone else's hearing is like. -Alan

I think the REAL question that needs to be asked, is why even bother answering the origional posters question? With a post count of 24, making a post that has been debated many many MANY times, probably since the invention of the loudspeaker, only never to be heard from again within this thread. Flame bait. -Alan

Hmmmm...I think the 20-20000Hz is more accurate. At least as an "average"; as due to age, and other factors we all loose sensitivity, and range as we get older. But I know I can hear WELL below 64Hz. If we couldn't hear below 64Hz, what would the need for a sub be? To just rattle the house? However, I think it was pretty inappropriate for the first person who responded to the origional post to "slam" your offering. -Alan

---------------- On 1/20/2004 5:24:16 PM TIbor wrote: My svs sub took about 1 month! ---------------- Don't tell me that!!! Don't want to hear it! Just kidding... If I am not mistaken, the PB2 is a relatively new model, so I would expect a new model line to take longer. The PB1 I ordered has been available...what about a year now? -Alan

LMAO... I was actually wondering how long it would take for someone to say basically: "Wait just a minute-your WIFE drives a truck and YOU drive a beetle???". Problem is, my beetle is a TurboS, only available in 6-speed manual, and the better half can't drive a stick! -Alan P.S. Oh, coincidently, I already know the very FIRST movie I want to watch after calibration. I have heard its a GREAT ".1" movie, but as it so happens, its one of my favorites: U-571

COOL! That is great news! I do realize that I have to take transit time into account, but since I am in Memphis, that isn't much transit time from Ohio. Also, FedEx's hub is here (not sure about UPS). Am having it delivered to my work. Ought to be interesting to get it home as heavy as it is. I drive a beetle-I wonder if it will fit with the back seat down...Otherwise, I will have to go home and get the truck from the better half! LOL -Alan

Okay...I know this isn't an SVS forum, but its one of the few HT boards I am registered at... Building basically my first very low end HT system, I have my receiver, and my speakers. I opted for the Quintet IIs. Space isn't an issue, but placement is, so floor-standers/bookshelves were just out of the question. Now, as I was saving up to get my sub, I had my eyes set on the KSW12; knowing the KSW10 is really the match for the quintets; but I thought I needed something with a little more "umph" since I have a large room, with lots of door openings. After parusing many, many HT forums, one brand just kept coming up: SVS-The more I looked, read, sought out reviews, the more I changed my mind. I am not really a bass fanatic; but am anxious to see what my new sub will do for my movie watching experience. I have only owned two other subs: A JBL PSW1000-hated it. It probably wasn't a bad piece in itself, I just couldn't integrate it into my then poorly match "stereo system" (well, it was a pro-logic system, but...) The other, is the sub that comes with the Klipsch Pro-Media 4.1s (I actually like it ALOT, blends very well as a system). So Saturday, I placed my order for the PB1-ISD. The second most inexpensive sub they offer. I did get my order comfirmation email, and realize its only been one workday (being Monday was a holiday), but I can't help but wonder about how long it takes for it to ship? I have DVE on order, should be here any day now. Picked up a Radio Snack analog SPL meter today (display item, last one they had ), so I am all set...minus the sub... I really want to email them, but in my mind, I see a small startup company, that probably is getting pounded with lots of email, and probably getting ALOT more orders than they figured the demand would be, so I don't want to bother them with something so trivial. I also kind of wonder if they have any "stock", or if they build each sub by hand as they are ordered? Oh...I guess waiting is the hardest part...Thanks for putting up with my rant... -Alan

No problem. THanks for the input. Even though the cylinder models seem to be the most popular, I opted for the PB1-ISD. Its on order, now all I have to do is WAIT for it to get here! -Alan

The short version: PB1-ISD or 20-39 PCI? The long version: Have been a long time lurker, seldom poster. I am a poor guy (LOL), and have been SLLLOOOWWWLLLY building my low end HT. I have a Sony STRDA-1000ES (yeah, I know sony isn't well reguarded around here, but it was the best bang for the buck for my needs), and a set of Klipsch Quintet IIs that are wall mounted around the room. I will be placing my order for my sub tommorrow, and I can't frigin' decide on which one. I am SET on SVS, but due to limited budget, those are my only two possibilities (wanted a little lower reach than the 25-31PCi). I kind of like the more traditional look of the box sub, but haven't seen no where NEAR the attention that the cylinder models get. I have a fairly large room, and after talking to SVS via email, they told me either choice would work great. I realize the sub is WAAAAAYY overkill for my little quintets, but in this case, I want quality, non-boomy bass, and anything left to spare on the sub, is just extra headroom. I know the PB1-ISD is sort of "inbeteen" the 25-31PCi and the 20-39PCi in terms of performance (Ron told me the PB1-ISD is tuned to 22Hz), but I haven't seen alot of reviews on this sub. In short, all the glaring SVS reviews I have seen are on the cylinder models. I haven't seen too many on the box models, with the exception of a few PB2-ISD and PB2+ model owners. Soooooo...Is the PB1 in the same league as the 20-39PCi, or is the cylinder just way better? TIA, -Alan

Sony doesn't get much love when it comes to audio components, but I'm still building my HT, and bought a Sony 1000ES, and LOVE it! Then again, I have a much lower budget, and that receiver was the "best bang for the buck" for my needs. That said, the 2000ES and up use the new digital amplification. Many people who have auditioned them said they sound wonderful, and very "tube like". However, at least the 3000ES has been plagued with low volume, and hiss at normal listening levels. At this time its unclear whether its fixed or not, so I would steer clear of this model. A *few* have said the 5000ES requires you to crank the volume up to get a decent listening level, but the new digital amplification could be the reason why. I am not sure, but a digital receiver may be able to have the volume cranked all the way up without clipping, while an analog receiver may start clipping before the volume gets halfway. Again, I am not positive about this, but its a guess-that would at least account for why you seem to have to crank the volume up more so than an analog unit. Also, while the Sonys can drive low impedance speakers, you normally have to flip a switch in the back, which effectively lowers the output power, so the receiver can handle the lower impedance speakers. Bottom line, I wouldn't recommend running anything but 8 ohm speakers with the Sony. The digital amps seem to be even more touchy about low impedance speakers. I would say the best thing is to audition one if you really like it. Noone can tell if you will like the sound or not but you. If you like the looks of the newer Sony ES's, but they are not to your liking, I would suggest looking at a Denon 3803S (silver). That would have been my choice, had it have fell in my budget. My nickel... -Alan

I recently bought a 1000ES, and although I can't really give you any info on the sound quality differnce (the 995 vs the 1000ES had IDENTICAL THD and power specs), what I can say is this: The build quality of the ES is far superior to the standard line. My particular ES receiver (although bottom of the line ES) is solid-Aluminum front panel vs. plastic. It just looks and feels more solidly built. Another difference is the warranty: 2 years I belive for their standard (DE) line, 5 years parts AND labor for the ES line. The difference in price between the 995S and 1000ES was $100. It was worth it to me for the build quality alone, let alone the warranty difference. I do believe the 1000ES lost multi-zone capability compared to the 995, so there was a feature trade-off, but if your in the maket for a reciever, what is MOST important is if it does every thing YOU need, and it sounds good to YOU. Take in what advice people have to offer, but don't get wrapped up in other peoples opinions too much (even mine). -Alan

Hitman21- Somehow I missed your reply to me. I wouldn't be totally against the idea of RF35s. I am not ready to buy just yet, but will be in the future. I see your in Nashville-I'm in Memphis, and the closest authorized dealer I found is an hour away in Jackson, TN anyway. Also, I don't think they actually have many Klipsch items in stock-they have a few-, but I'm guessing auditioning would be hard to do at that location. I might have to make a trip to the music city when I am ready to pick a set up. Oh, and as far as equipment goes, I'm pretty much set. I have been building my first REAL HT setup (hence the low end ES purchase), and am perfectly happy with my setup. This is actually my second "HT" setup ever. The first was...well, lets say a disaster (poorly match components). Now, if I ever find myself with a dedicated media room (I have unfinished bonus space upstairs), I have already decided separates would be the way to go. -Alan

Vital-I understand completely, and agree with ya 100%. Everyone's needs are different. Also, if the "holy grail" was so easily obtainable, then we would all have the same setup, and there would be no point in the audio journey. I especially got a kick out of your "it never ends" statement. Isn't that the truth! Even for my very low end setup, my better half is clobbering me on the amount of money spent. I try and reassure her by showing her similar items that cost 10 times as much, and tell her "see, I am not going overboard-look how much I saved". LOL!!! Since starting over, I've bought new TVs, VCRs, DVD players for all bedrooms (all low end stuff), but it adds up. Then there was the cost of the wiring. My living room is very oddly layed out, so I needed alot of inwall runs...Plus the interconnects, etc...All of which I bought what I thought was the "best bang for the buck", without trying to be too skimpy. My goal was a step above a "home theater in a box". All in all, I am happy with my setup (except I need some decent towers for music-The Quintets are perfect for movie use, but I feel they lack when doing music duties). -Alan