Deang

Craig, this is pretty important -- I wanted to remind you to make sure that turntable is grounded.

I think this tube amp business is ridiculous. Why would anyone in their right mind want put up with this nonsense. I'm selling everything and buying a nice Sansui integrated. Humming, buzzing, ringing, hot-flashing glass, and Lord knows what else. Whatever benefits in the sound gained are offset by the shear madness of it all. Yes, a nice polite SS integrated amp that just turns on and off and does what it's supposed to -- speaks when spoken to -- and otherwise invisible. Damn, 15 hours until I can fire up the Apollos and try out the Halos. Think I'll heat them horns up real good tomorrow. Punish those whimpy amps for the crap they've put me through this past week. I can hardly wait.

The Amperex 6922 White Labels dusted the Mullards (Mullard Shield, gold pins) I compared a while back. Again, so much always ends up coming down to the equipment they are used in -- and the ears that are listening.

Time to double up on your medication Justin:) He's a friend of Maxs' -- he's O.K. with me. Besides, Chris only does this once in a blue moon -- it's not like it happens every day or every week. The site is intense. I go there to keep myself humble.

What a great a thread. I have no idea what anyone is talking about.

I never understood the big deal about the cones and the x-over anyways. The low bass is vented, and the cones barely move except at the most outrageous SPL's. I think the 7's have some of the cleanest midrange I have ever heard. I don't see anything wrong with having the horn handle the majority of the midrange harmonics, and the fundamentals by the cones. It sounds O.K. to me:)

Leo, Have you ever done any tests to determine the true in-room sensitivity of the 7's? Just curious.

Since I'm mathematically declined, maybe you can help me understand what you are saying exactly with those numbers. Your P-P is 10 wpc., and evidently there is a relationship between the output of the preamp and the input impedance of the amplifier that is determining the outcome of the numbers -- is this right? So, how do I figure out the output level of my setup?

Randy, Seems we are in some agreement here. I posted several comments regarding the subject: http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=27450&sessionID={BBF14D0E-1EB0-4C21-A356-7F1D22EA16DA} I agree microphonics stems from the elements within the tube, however -- I believe the envelope acts as the transmission medium. My Halo tube dampers showed up yesterday while I was at work. I do 12 hour days on both Saturday's and Sunday's -- and so won't be able to play until after work tomorrow. Word on the street is that the Halos damp the glass without killing the character of the tube. I also went with the 'Tenderfeet' over the Vibrapods. I appreciated the genius in the Halo design, and so decided to give their anti-microphonic pads a shot as well.

Ah c'mon Craig, lemme see you pull those resistors out of your arse. Man Kelly, I don't know, it does boggle my trying to imagine that ANYONE could ANY difference with the tolerences that are involved here. I understand what you're saying -- but damn.

Neato. Could you blast that second picture for me? I don't like it. Feel like adding some DQ pics for the alternate system? Perks huh...want me to get you some Multicaps for that Scott

I used to think I listened to 105 db too, until I finally got another SPL meter. Just going by a speaker's presumed sensitivity rating doesn't really work all to well. At my most obnoxious moments, I'm never much above 100 db, and that, I found out -- is loud as hell.

I wonder if Kelly's right. Maybe we're the only two people on the planet trying to press out the last ounce of musicality from these things. I miss some of the aggressiveness of the SuperAmp -- but the imaging and trimensionality of the soundstage makes my DQ's sound almost flat by comparison. I have to dump almost everything the Aragon has into the DQ's, to get them to sound as open as the RF7's with a couple of watts.

Great post. Thanks Kelly. I actually knew what the caps were, I just didn't know in what capacity they were being used in. I had a feeling the Hovlands might be the coupling caps, I just couldn't be sure. I figured the Cerafines had to be power supply caps because of their size, but could'nt be sure about that either - LOL. Man, I've got so much to learn. At least with your cool pic, I can now make some sense out of the schematics in the manual. Ron W. never says what does what -- he just says "this" goes "here". I get what you are saying about the vintage p-p designs. Yes, that makes sense. They were built and voiced with certain parts, and it does make sense to keep things as close to original as possible. Steve from Layne Audio certainly agrees with your views here. I ran into a similiar thing while wrestling with the caps selection for the DQ crossovers. He basically told me that though the DQ's are fine speakers -- film and foils would be complete waste of money because the subtleties would be lost in the complexity of the crossover and mediocrity of the drivers, and warned me that the signature might change in a direction other than what I desired.

Wow, really nice work Craig. Where do you find the time for all this! It's tough to see every detail from a digital pic, and I think Kelly was just making suggestions to help you cross your t's and dot your i's. I didn't really see you so much being offended as exasperated:) I sure don't think he doubts your abilities however. I will probably wade into these vintage waters at some point, and I find it curious that everyone seems to be opting for polypropylenes for most of the cap replacements. I would sure be interested in hearing one of these amps with some film and foils in the critical places. I'm curious -- what were the original caps? Were they all electrolytics? Welborne Labs is selling some new caps called the Jupiters. These things are made of bees wax of all things. Too bad we're not all independantly wealthy and try out the multitudes of options -- in the hope of coming to some definitive conclusions about what works and sounds best. My Apollos just had Blackgate Heart of Muse installed shortly before they were sold to me. The seller "warned" me that they were not broken in yet. These amps don't sound harsh to me in the least. I may just not be as discerning in this area -- I guess it will be interesting listening for any change in the signature over the next few months. Of course, I have no idea what part of the circuit the Blackgates are in, nor what part the Hovland's are in! I guess the Cerifines are the power supply caps. It sure sucks not knowing much about amplifiers. Can anyone tell from looking at my amp pics which is what?

Poor person has probably done over 5,000 of these in the last two years. Probably just exausted and didn't mean to be rude.

Leo, You voiced your RF7's BY EAR!! Are you out of you mind! Now you have no idea what you have -- it might sound horrid, and you wouldn't even know it!!! Kelly's best post of the month. LOL. Jeepers, Leo, if you get that SET amp, you're gonna have to change all those resistors out:) Was that you posting on the Welborne Forum about the Moondogs? Hee hee, gonna go with a solid watt huh?

I would call Steve from Layne Audio and see if he has a refoaming kit. http://layneaudio.hypermart.net/Advent.htm You can also go through Simply Speakers, but I have no experience with them. http://www.simplyspeakers.com/2doityourself.htm Which ones do you have? The Old, Original Advent with the 7 3/4" woofer (has the masonite ring going around the outside), or the New Advent Loudspeaker (with the 10" woofers).

plain stereo good processing bad The more the signal has to pass through, the more degradation of the signal -- no matter what the effect

Strange post. Where did you dig up this info? As far as I know, Kloss NEVER worked as a tech for Dolby Labs. He actually never had anything to do with Dolby directly, but instead transformed the Cassette medium by figuring out how to incorporate Dolby B Noise Reduction in the Advent Model 200 Cassette player. Before that time, the cassette wasn't really taken seriously as a medium for music. Kloss and Villchur invented the AR-1 together -- the first acoustic suspension loudspeaker, and so deep bass from a small box was realized. With KLH he designed the Model 8 radio, and the first successful audio product to use transistors -- the model 11. Early KLH speakers were excellent, and the modern day company has nothing in common with the KLH of the 60's. The Original Advent loudspeaker he designed, STILL embarrasses half the stuff that is out there. http://www.tnt-audio.com/edcorner/kloss_e.html

At the rate this forum is going, we'll have the whole world converted to tube gear in less than 20 years. That should keep the tube industry alive and kicking for a while.

You don't think you can convince your mom in 4 1/2 weeks that K-horns, SET, and vinyl are the way to go? Hmmm. Of course, it might only take 4 1/2 minutes after she hears that radio. I bet she listens to Paul Harvey. "Ladies and Gentlemen, there is nothing like the Bose Wave Radio. It's simply amazing how Bose technology can make something the size of a mustardseed -- and completely fill a concert hall with beautiful music. There is no longer any reason to have a stereo system taking up valuable space in your home -- as the Bose Wave Radio sounds so much better, and isn't any larger than a toaster. The sound of the Bose Wave Radio is so real, that you will not be able to distinguish between it and life musicians. It is like having the musicians playing right next to you. Imagine how your friends will react when you tell them that the Concert quality sound they are hearing -- is coming from the toaster, uhh, I mean...Bose Wave Radio." We may have to ban you from the Forum for helping to proliferate the non-sense.

Yes, that's why I asked if he was buying used or new. Of course, land something vintage and have Craig work his magic. I've never heard either the Eico or any of the Scott's, but of the many here who have went in either direction -- I don't think there have been ANY disappointments. Isn't Tbabb runnning his RB5's off the Eico? O.K. everyone -- be on the lookout for an Eico or Scott for 'ole Atom. Craig, don't you got about 60 or 70 of those Scotts laying around your house right now:) Kelly, that Scott on it's way to you yet? Holy Kondo Kunnunni Yoda -- don't tell a soul, or those Ebay prices will go through the freaking ceiling!!

Interesting thread -- one to be treasured. hee hee, and Kelly thinks I'M the metalhead -- jeesh Mike, I need to have you send some of that stuff my way!! I won't add anything I've already seen, so -- here goes (no particular order of preference, and these are for whole CD's, not just songs -- throw on the CD and take the therapy for the whole duration. Also, I consider all of these to be excellently recorded/mixed. Star *, denotes a "must own"). Rush -- Moving Pictures (24 bit remaster)* Fuel -- Sunburned* Pantera -- Cowboys from Hell Babe Ruth -- First Base Stone Temple Pilots -- Core* Judas Priest -- Sad Wings of Destiny* Godsmack -- Godsmack Live -- Throwing Copper Nirvana -- Nevermind Montose -- Paper Money* Eric Gayles Band -- Eric Gayles Band* Bachman Turner Overdrive -- Not Fragile Nazareth -- Hair of the Dog* Pink Floyd -- A Momentary Lapse of Reason* Journey -- Infinity (22 bit remaster)* Led Zeppelin III* Susan Ashton -- Awakened by the Wind* The Moody Blues -- Anthology* Many others, but for now... Ray, stop it -- you're frightening me:)