frankphess
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Posts posted by frankphess
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Frank......e-mail sent.
2 emails sent..talk to ya soon
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MY RF-7 journey… I started with RF-7’s because they were the king of the reference line at the time. I’ve lived with them for better of for worse for more than a few years now. While I enjoyed each combination and learned a lot along the way, I always knew there was room for improvement. But now, I’m finally satisfied. At present it’s really 2 systems using the same 2 front RF-7’s. Below are the different components I’ve tried.. My pre/pro/amplifier progression with RF-7’s: 1- Sony 110w AVR- first foray into Klipsch, bought full 5.1 RF-7 line. Crank it! Awesome!2- Replaced RF-7/RC-7 networks (by Dean). Highs not so harsh, smoother response.3- Added room treatments. Reduced room reflections.4- Sony AVR w/ Anthem MCA 20 – pretty nice, first try with 200W SS, MCA series is warm, not as detailed as B&K.5- Bottlehead Foreplay w/ Anthem MCA20 – first try with a tube pre, noticeable improvement in detail.6- Sony DA50ES AVR w/ B&K 220M monos – great with movies, DVD concerts7- JM Peach (LoZ) w/ B&K 220M monos – Great for 2 channel, lived with this combo for quite some time.8- JM Peach w/ XXXX 100w tube monos – XXXX’s couldn’t handle the impedance or amps needed restoring, just didn’t sound very good with the 7’s, IMO. Truly disappointed. Ditched the XXXX’s. (Popular manufacturer’s name withheld to protect the innocent.) Current system: 9- B&K Ref 50 S2 w/ B&K 220M monos – nice pre/pro, can turn 2 channel stereo music into 5 channel surround, can crank out some high SPL’s, when I feel like letting it fly!10- JM Peach (Hi mode & CCA in V1) w/ VRD ST-35 w/ 350B tubes – Ultra Linear on 4 ohm tap – Finally, what I’ve been looking for. Handles the 7’s easily, sound is effortless and comes from a dead silent black backround with a wide soundstage and precise imaging. I enjoy the B&K Combo with subwoofer for music videos in 5.1, and I absolutely LOVE the Peach/VRD combo for long 2-channel listening sessions. If anyone is interested in hearing either combo, shoot me an e-mail. Frank.p.hess@sargentlundy.com – South Chicago suburbs
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Crank Led Zeppelin's MOBY DICK.
RKelly - Snake (from Chocolate Factory)
NERD - She wants to move (from FLY or Die)
Silverchair - Israel's Son (from Frogstomp)
Any TOOL song
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I've only heard their entry level concertino's, which sounded great to me for such a small speaker, but I would think the Sonus Faber Cremona Ellipsa's might warrant some consideration, although a little over budget.
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I can vouch for B&K, JuicyMusic, & NosValves products, as I have and use all three. I currently run a full B&K system for 5.1 and use a JM Peach with NOSValves stereo amplifier for 2-channel listening. I absolutely love both. If you're going with KHorns and stereo, I would go with a JM Peach (or Blueberry) with a NOSValves (VRD or ST) creation. If you stick with 5.1 HT, I would look at B&K.
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Some more pics here...
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/09/hands-on-with-denons-super-separates/
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Wait 'til Otis see's us, he love's us!
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I have B&K 220monos and had an Anthem MCA20. I prefer the B&K's to the Anthem MCA20. I haven't heard Anthem's Statement line, but it would be a step up from their MCA line. I wouldn't think you could go wrong with B&K Reference amps or Sunfire. Either should be overkill for Heritage.
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I hope these will come with some type of grill, as silver/grey is not everyone's cup of tea, aestetically speaking.
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I believe Mark Deneen of Juicy Music created a box just for this purpose. You may want to contact Mark to see if has any left for sale.
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Check Audiogon periodically as used gear is added each day. You can also search by zip code if you'd rather find something in your area. And buying used, you can try it for a while then if you're not happy with it, just put it back on Audiogon for close to what you paid. Buying new is like buying a new car, the value depreciates as soon as you take it home, so you'd better be sure it's what you want when buying new. Below are a few 200w solid state amplifiers on Audiogon right now. Good luck in your search.
B&K - 7 channels @ 200 - http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?ampsmult&1204442641
Rotel 5 @ 200 - http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?ampsmult&1205610646
Aragon 3 @ 200 - http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?ampstran&1205645167
Sunfire 2 @ 300 - http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?ampstran&1205379443
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The RF-7's will sound very good with high current solid state amplifiers that can handle low impedance loads, i.e. Sunfire, B&K, Rotel, Aragon. If you're going to try a tube amp, at least make sure it has a 4 ohm tap and use that. My guess is that a $500, 30W amp isn't going to produce the best results, unless low-med volume in a small room is what you're after.
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If you plan on keeping the RF-7's and eventually buying different equipment to use with them, get the networks done first and be done with it.
If you're going to use the 7's for 2 channel, you're not going to want to use an AVR, you'll eventually want separates. If you want to use them for home theater, at least the networks will be done. My 2 cents.
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Here's a warning that was posted on Craigslist last week about people selling speakers out of a van
Not worth $50 New DiVinci DV-606 msrp $3659SCAM Kirsch K3 DA-803 - $50
Reply to: sale-482509394@craigslist.org
Date: 2007-11-18, 9:33AM CST
Please Copy now, repost somewhere and share this info with others.
The scammers don't want anyone to know about their scam
so they will flag and remove this ad !
Do a good deed and save someone from getting scammed !
The speakers sold by the speakermen are of exceptionally poor quality,
typically obtained for less than $50 from a local distributor.
The speakers themselves have been reported as potentially damaging to any amplifier they are connected to.
The risk of damage stems from an impedence curve that in some cases may drop
below 2 ohms, which may overheat, short out, or permanently damage an
amplifier not designed to handle such loads.
Do a search for " white van speakers " you'll see how this scam goes
Guy in suv or van drives up to you has these $3000 speakers , extras ??
You can have em for a deal you can't pass up .
He will try to get you to give him $50 or more up to $1500.00 for these $40 china speakers.
Look out for the guy in the suv with the cock and bull story about
the extra home theater system he's got to unload.
He will tell you it's worth something crazy like 2000 or 3000 dollars
show all kinds of crap like receipts , invoices , magazines , ads sheets, etc.
He'll even point you to the company website to prove they are worth the 3 grand. Don't be fooled !
So when he lowers his price to $100.00 you'll think you got the deal of a lifetime. $3000 speakers for $ 100 bucks ,
no you got a crap set of $40 speakers and paid $100 or more for them.
Just do a search for "white van speakers" and you'll see that not only are
they worth only 40 bucks shipped from china , they may also be UNSAFE and damage your system.
Watch out for the speaker guys in suv's or pickup trucks and vans
selling home theater equipment.
Many of the sales take place in the parking lots of Best Buy, Home Depot, Circuit City , Banks ,
Carwashes , Gas Stations , Construction sites , etc
heck they will even flag you down while you are driving down the road.
Do not fall for the white van speaker scam , they are looking to rip you off !
If you see them , drop a dime , CALL A COP , let's get these scumbags of our streets.
Get your phone out , Take a PICTURE , get the PLATE number and
CALL the Local POLICE !!
Law enforcement WILL issue citations, as rarely do the speakerguys obtain the proper permits and license to sell "out of a vehicle".
In Pennsylvania, the act of selling white van speakers is punishable by up to five years in prison and up to a fine of $10,000 .
Here's one of many reviews I found ...
I've been involved in the audio industry for over 25 years, and have to say that these speakers have the worst components I've ever seen. As someone who has built and repaired speakers, and written published audio reviews well before the Internet came around, I am appalled at the chutzpah shown by manufacturers and sellers of this junk.
The 'reviews' and 'guides' that speak positively of these things have undoubtedly been posted by those who stand to profit from the sale of these inferior items. Take the Kirsch, Theatre Research, Genesis Media Labs (Genesis PHYSICS was a good brand in the 1980's) and DiVinci speakers, with their glossy ads and websites full of meaningless techno-babble and claims of outrageous 'retail' prices - not that any reputable retailer would carry these dogs.
There are good reasons why they are mostly sold out of the back of white vans, and here, where comparison to good equipment is impossible. Most recently peddlers of the Genesis Media Lab and DiVinci's have trumpeted an ad taken out by the company, and purchase of a booth at an electronics show as evidence that this is an established brand-when you have the kind of profit margins based upon $ 50 worth of components in a "$ 3600" package, I suppose you can afford a booth or an ad.
Imagine if a peddler of fake Rolexes', or 'Rolex quality' watches posted a website claiming that their junk that cost maybe $ 50 to manufacture is worth thousands - that is basically the case we have here.
I've had the opportunity to take apart a number of these speakers, and all I can say is if you read Wikipedia and other search results you obtain from Googling the term "White Van Speakers' or 'White Van Scam' the conclusion that the components are of 'exceptionally poor quality' is well founded.
For example, as I write this, there are at least 3 pairs of the "K803 Prodigy" speakers being posted on E Bay for $ 1500 or more, yet superior drivers (the speaker drivers -woofers, tweeters, midranges and the like) can be had for $ 15 or less per driver. The internal electronics such as the crossovers, are by far, the absolute worst I've ever seen in nearly 3 decades as a hobbyist.
The DiVinci hucksters have the nerve to advertise their 'high energy crossover', which is a $2 piece of junk - a good crossover is complex, not inexpensive, and is critical to sound quality. Even the glossy cabinets are made of cheap, lightweight wood, whose resonances distort the already awful sound, and lack the internal bracing you will find on quality speakers.
The drivers on the Kirsch and DiVinci "$ 3000 pair" (K803- DiVinci 1740-Dahlton- same speaker) are pretty much the same as on another set of these towers sold under an earlier "White Van Scam" name that a friend bought for $ 59 in a local pawn shop- one set of DiVinci's' is listed for $ 2500 buy it now - that is on line piracy.
Just for fun, we compared these Kirsch 803 beasts' to a pair of Infinty SM-255's bought off of E Bay for $ 300, using both analogue and digital sources, receivers and high end separate electronics. A sound level meter was used to ensure that the listening occured at the same volume level.
One of the girlfriends said it best : the Kirsch sounded like a clock radio compared to the Infinity's and one thought that a clock radio might sound better. Technical measurements confirmed what our ears told us - a ragged response curve that is the worst I've ever seen, bar none.
Maybe it was unfair - the Infinity's weigh 77 pounds versus 28 for the Klipsch... er Kirsch - but then the Kirsch is a $ 3000 speaker, the Infinities were $ 1000 new ... the weight alone should tell you just what junk the White Van Speakers are. We also compared the Kirsch with a vintage set of Klipsch KG-3.5's which you can get for around $ 200-250 - needless to say they blew the K-803 Prodigy away.
We've also performed listening tests comparing the "$ 2495"- oh please - Kirsch K3 home theatre system to a vintage set of Infinity Qb speakers dating back to the 1980's, which you can buy for $ 150 or so; a Samsung Home Theatre in a box and to Logitech Z-5300 and Klipsch Pro Media 5.1 computer speakers, hooked to a 5.1 receiver via the headphone jack ( a decent option for a small room).
Experienced listeners suggested the best use of the Kirsch's was as a boat anchor or firewood, kids unanimously preferred the other sets and as one eloquently put it - ' the fancy ones stink like poo.' You would be much better off with a used set from Energy, Polk, or another quality speaker company.
I also had the (dis) pleasure of listening to a set of the "$ 3600" DiVinci's often posted here - even the best electronics cannot make a silk purse out of these sow's ears. We compared the DiVinci 607 model to a Polk RM-6800 5.1 home theater set up that can be had for $ 400 or less- $3200 less than theDiVinci's so called retail value.
It was no contest-- as my 12 year old put it 'where did all the instruments go' - there was no category- NONE- imaging, detail, tightness of bass- you name it- where the DiVinci's were remotely competitive.
Not only are the speakers unspeakably bad, the 'receivers' included with the DiVinci, Theatre Research, Digital Research and other "White Van Brands' lack even basic AV functions such as Dolby and DTS processing, and HDMI and component video outputs -as well as measuring and sounding horribly - try watching "Master and Commander" with one of these pieces of 'bleep'- a used Denon, Yamaha or Onkyo at any price is light years superior.
With profit margins that would make oil companies jealous, I can see where they could now buy ads in magazines - one E Bay posting claims they are an 'established high end speaker' - you would have to be high to consider these anything but the low level junk they are. Scam is not a strong enough term, and these have earned their place on rip-off report.com
White Van Speaker List
Acoustic Response Series 707
Acoustic Image 3311 / 3312
Acoustic Lab Technology
Acoustic Monitor
Acoustic 3312 Studio Monitor
Acoustic Response
Advanced Sound Technologies AST X2 1055
Audiofile 583LR
Audiofile 835LR
Audiofile THX 6.1
Audio Tech
Dahlton KV 1500
Dahlton KV 2500 TI Speakers
Dahlton AV 5.1 THX
DanWave DW-6
DanWave DW-606
DanWave DW-607
DanWave DW-608
Dan Wave DW-1000
Diamond Audio Prodigy DA803
http://www.divincisound.comDivinci Sound
DiVinci Innovative Sound & Bass
Divinci Sound D6 D-6
Divinci Sound DV7010 DV-7010
Divinci Sound DV6030 Dv-6030
Divinci Sound DV505 DV-505
Divinci Sound DA6.1 DA-6.1
Divinci D-52
Divinci DV-606
Divinci DV-607
Divinci DV-608
Divinci DV-1420
Divinci DV-1450
Divinci DV-1412
Divinci DV-1450
Divinci DV- 607
Divinci DV-2150
Divinci DV-2100
Denmark
Denmark Loud Speaker E830LR
Digital Audio DHT 5.1
Digital Audio SL-3810
Digital Audio DA 2000SL / 2000CS
Digital Audio 2000
Digital Audio 2002
Digital Audio 2012 7.1
Digital Audio Professional Speaker Systems SL-3810
Digital Audio Skyline 900-SL
Digital Audio SL-3910 Speakers
Digital Audio 2003 DA 5.1 Pro-Series III
Digital Dogg Audio
Digital Pro Audio
Digital Pro Audio SL-T 2.8
Digital Research 5.1 Pro Series
Digital Research DA 5.1 Pro Series III
Digital Research DR-1000
Digital Research DR-2810
Digital Research DR-1610
Digital Research DR-1611
Dogg Digital
Dynalab
Epiphany Audio speakers
Elite Audio
Elite Audio EA-505
Elite Audio EA-608
Elite Audio EA-1620
Elite Audio EA-7012
Epic Sound 7.1
Fleetwood Audio
Genesis
Genesis Media Labs
Genesis G-6.1 Digital Series
Genesis G-505
Genesis G-506
Genesis G-507
Genesis G-608
Genesis G-609
Genesis G-610
Genesis G-1420
Genesis G-1620
Genesis G-1630
Genesis G-2810
Genesis G-2815
Genesis R-2810
Genesis G-2840
Genesis G-2850
Genesis G-2870
Genesis G-2875
Genesis G-2880
Genesis G-2885
Genesis G-2950
Genesis G-2960
Genesis G-6030
Genesis G-6035
Genesis G-6040
Genesis G-7012
http://www.genesismedialabs.comGrafdale
Hauffman
Innovative Sound Digital Pro Audio
Kirsch K3
Kirsch K10
Kirsch Prodigy K803
http://www.kirschloudspeakers.comLinear Phase studio monitors
http://matrixaudioconcepts.comMatrix Audio Concepts
Matrix MX-1300 MX1300 MX1300S
MX-404
MX-550
MX-6160
MX-2060
MX-605S
Millenium
Millenium MTS-2006p
Millenium MTS-2208
Millenium MTS-2328
Millenium MTS-2300
Millenium MTS-2605
Millenium MTS-3100
Millenium MTS-3200
http://www.mtsspeakers.comOmni Audio
PSD (2.8)
PTS PT-5500S
PTS (Precision Transducer Systems)
http://www.ptswoofers.comPalermo VA6.1
Palermo VA 6.1
Paradyme
Pro Audio
Pro Dynamics Pro Platinium Series
Pro Dynamics PD-9600
Proline Acoustic
Protecsound PT-5000 digital surround sound system speakers
Samurai 518
Skyline AD-900SL
Skyline Digital Denmark 800 or 900 "series"
Studio Tech (Pro Poly Series)
Theater Innovations (Ti 5100)
TI-440MR TI~440MR
TI-440R TI~440R
TI-440M TI~440M
TI-5100 TI~5100
TI-5150T TI~5150T
TI~1250 TI-1250
TI~1255 TI-1255
TI~1300 TI-1300
TI~1650 TI-1650
TI~1655 TI-1655
TI~6000SD TI-6000SD
TI~6100 TI-6100
TI~1750 TI-6200
http://www.theater-innovations.comTheater Logic
http://theaterlogichomecinema.com/Theater Logic L5ti
Theater Logic L6
Theater Logic L8TI 5.1
Theater Logic T 2400
Theater Logic T 2450
http://www.trtheaterresearch.comTheater Research TR-501
Theater Research TR-900
Theater Research TR-1120
Theater Research TR-1400
Theater Research TR-1410 Digital Sound Speakers
Theater Research TR-2380
Theater Research TR-2810
Theater Research TR-5210 Professional Home Theater
Theater Research TR-5160
Theater Research TR-6000
Theater Research TR-6100 Digital Sound/5.1 Home Cinema
Theater Research TR-8010
Theater Research TR-8810
Theater Research Pro Series III Professional Home
Ultra Digital Labs
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One thing I did which helped clean up the bass from the 15 was to get it up on spikes. Without spikes, the whole room would shake because the rubber feet transfered the bass to the floor and walls from the cabinet. Once on spikes the bass seems more defined and audible rather than everything shaking. Thread size for the RSW-15 is the same as the RF-7 feet, 1/4-20. Just a thought.
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There is a small removeable plastic plug in each terminal, best removed with an xacto type blade as it is very flush. When this is removed the terminals will accept banana plugs. I wouldn't thread bare wire, you won't have a solid connection. Either terminate the bare wire to spades or bananas or clamp the bare wire uner the screw terminals.
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Those Tangents are just "big" Heresy's with a passive radiator. If you get the chance try some tubes on them. I have a pair in the garage being driven by a Bogen DB212 which is 12 watts per side and enough to get them plenty loud.
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Thanks, that would be great. Not many of my friends and family are very excited about audio, so I haven't heard many other setups other than my own.
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While I need to take more recent photos, I've posted some. Thanks.
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Here's a pair in Illinois.
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I agree with Dean. The ST-70's clipping. RF-7's need more power than an ST-70 can provide to get to high volumes.
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What about getting only the tubed pre CJ, leaving the power amp section of the rotel ss, in efforts of taming the horn/leveraging mid?
I would try this route first. I have tried combinations of receivers/pre's/amps, and my favorite by far for 2-channel is tube pre with solid state amplification with the RF-7's.
My RF-7 journey summed up and done.
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
I would never say never, however I'll be starting on a second system upstairs that I anticipate will require most of my attention. I will need to go with a smaller speaker than the RF-7 due to space constraints. (thinking Palladium bookshelfs possibly, with ????, but 2 channel only, no theater.) Any suggestions????