D-Rex
-
Posts
605 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Events
Gallery
Posts posted by D-Rex
-
-
----------------On 7/30/2004 1:07:07 AM formica wrote:Theoretically, if the centre of the woofer cone is placed in the exact same spot in either configuration, the sound will be identical whether front or bottom firing. The wavelengths are simply too long. The change of the cone centre itself will should make a very small difference, and it's effect will vary with your room.Psychologically, it's a very different matter... as a front firing driver will look/seem more powerful with ba wider frequency response while a downward firing one will seem less directional. Both these claims have no scientific backing.If you have young children or parties, downward firing can be safer in avoiding pushed in dust caps or other accidents. If you listening room is in a controlled environment, front firing looks more impressive.I built mine with a front firing driver, as it seemed more powerful and had a better frequency response
Rob----------------You mean after all of the "in theory" speech your's seemed more powerful and had a better frequency reponse as a front firing sub?
Funny...What driver did you use for your subwoofer?
-
Which do you like and why?
I don't have alot of experience with subwoofers but I really liked the front firing RSW15. My question pertains to how powerful are the down firing subs and can it feel like they are "firing" the shock waves at you?
I am going to be building my own so I would like some opinions please. Give me some reasons for either... or both.
Thanks,
D-Rex
-
I have heard others say Episode II was worse than Episode I. Personally, I find them both lacking compared to the original Trilogy but I am interested to see how this finally gets tied all together. I will eventually own them all but the first three will always be special!
-
----------------On 7/22/2004 2:34:19 PM Scp53 wrote:get the 1000 wt one. you only buy it once- 300 vs 400 dollars. with that 1000 wt one, if you don't even use close to its ability- at least you won't be working it hard and it will not get as hot either.and that DVC- its that monster one correct? the one that is $500-600 msrp.and once you purchase it call PE and get the box dimensions. actually call before you order- because if you build a ported cab buy the port when you buy the driver.and even if you go sealed you'll need foam or some other filling- this kills sound waves coming from the back of the woofer.scp53----------------
Okay, as luck would have it, I found a 1000 watt amp from parts express on Ebay and got it for $302 with shipping, which is even cheaper than the 500 watt when you include shipping. It was brand new, never been out of the box, much like Stinky Pete (Toy Story 2). ;-)
I am going to see a friend of mine at Kicker here in Stillwater on Monday and discuss the pros and cons of the 15" dayton driver and see if they have anything comparable at an affordable price. Kicker is a big name in car audio and are just now begining to dabble in home audio.
Okay, so let's rundown the parts needed. I have the amp and I am getting a driver. Then I need some MDF (including the glue and "nails"), a port, some form of legs for the box, some finishing product(paint, stain, varnish etc.), some foam for the inside, metal braces for the inside of the box, and ???.
Thanks,
D
-
Okay, I plan to get the 15" DVC (no, I haven't ordered it yet) which can handle over 1000 watts. So, should I get the amp to match (1000 watts) or, like you said before, it's only a 3db increase over the 500 watt so the benefit is hardly noticable?
As soon as I find out from FedEx the status of my claim (my RB-5's were damaged during shipping) I will get the woofer ordered. My first priority (well, my wife's first priority) is to get something to replace the Pioneer floor speakers I am selling.
Thanks for your assistance!
D
-
I e-mailed SVS about using a Samson amp with one of their passive subs and they wondered why when I could get one of their powered ones that would have the following advantages:
"The powered subs have subsonic filters, 40-150hz crossover control, 0-180
phase control, and high level inputs."
Now, he did say I could use my receiver for the crossover function (although I don't know how yet, I have a Denon 3801) but are the subsonic filters and 0-180 phase control necessary?
I went and scoped out some MDF today at Lowes. It was extremely heavy and definitely unlike any particle board I had ever seen. I can see why it is so good for building speakers. It certainly needs some external veneer like a 1/4" birch or smaller to make for a beautiful finish but it will be one heavy beast! The lumber was probably 60-70 lbs for one sheet and the driver weighs another 30+ lbs! Add a few lbs here and there and it could easily weigh over 100lbs!
However, it isn't building the box that has me concerned, it's all of this cross-over, phase control, etc. that has me concerned. It makes me think I should just go with the internal amp that has those gadgets built in, instead of the Samson. Would that be your suggestion as well?
D
-
----------------On 7/21/2004 5:49:20 PM leslie wrote:Hi,I have an "extra" RSW-15, black, bought 8 months ago. A maple-finish SVS PB2-Ultra has replaced its space, (for cosmetic purpose, to blend with my other maple furnitures.). The RSW-15 is not anymore used and is now stored in my vacant room.----------------
Non-comestically speaking of course, which subwoofer did you like the best, the SVS or the RSW?
D
-
I am looking forward to your review as well. I was considering this one and the Velodyne CHT-12 but couldn't decide which one was best. I have finally decided to go the DIY route...
-
----------------On 7/20/2004 11:06:49 PM Scp53 wrote:Thanks for all of the helpful advice/information. Now, let me ask another question. If I bought two of those 12" DVCs could I place them in the same box, send a channel from the amp to each woofer and double the output of the subwoofer or would it be better to just build two boxes?D----------------------------------------------------------------------you could put them in the same box. Im not sure as to if they should be in the same chamber though. if you would but them in the same box, put them in seprate chambers. which "DVC's" are you talking about? those ones on a bargain? or the ones from dayton that cost $120-130? tell me the part number so I can look it up on PE's site.as far as "doubling the output", by no means can you double the output or even increase the output given the same power. all you would be doing is taking the power and splitting it so that each woofer works less. as far as two boxes, Id say stay with one. especially if you use the same amp for both(same channel of amp). you can have phase problems- one sub can cancel out the other. if I were you the first thing you need to decide is what subwoofer driver(s) you are going to use. and if you want those 550 msrp high performance 12" driver(s), you'd better jump on that. you ain't gonna see them around for very long. Im mean by them NOW! that is a deal. can't speak to how good they are but by looking at the specs and the price, there gonna smoke a titanic- at least in some ways.scp53----------------
Okay, if you liked the 12" DVC then you should love this one!
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=299-665
I love the way they are describing the "feel" of this woofer. The description on the 12" was the only thing holding me back on that one! Of course, it's probably only marketing, they always tell you what you want to hear.
Now, I have been scanning my local Lowes webpage and found what they are calling MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) and they are classifying it in the same class as particle board. Are you familiar with particle board and is MDF just a fancy name for it? Do you think the experts at PE would know if more expensive core lumber product or even a plyboard would be as good for a sub cabinet? Anyone else you know I could ask?
If and when I get this built you will be the first I send a picture to!
Thanks,
D
-
----------------On 7/20/2004 11:54:08 AM Scp53 wrote:However, with that said, you have raised several more questions. You think the 12" DVC would perform as well as the 15" Titantic?--------------------------------------------------------------------------are you talking about that one on a deal- from 550 msrp marked down to like 169? if you are talking about that one, yes it is better than the 15 titanic.How do you install a cross over if neither my prospective amp nor my receiver (Denon 3801) have crossover controls? I will have to check to see if the Denon has such controls, I just bought it and don't know off the top of my head.----------------------------------------------------------------------you can buy a sub crossover-actual board inside the cab, but that is more permenant, you can't just switch it like a turn nob on a regular plate amp. I suggest that you buy a external amp that is specifically for a sub.hopefully someone else knows of a amp that is just like plate amp except for external use.Bridged? Don't know about it, please explain. So, a 500 watt amp could suffice with hardly a noticable drop-off? So, it's not like a 1000 watt amp will appear as twice as powerful as a 500 watt?---------------------------------------------------------------------------do you know anything about db and how it relates to power? every time you double your power input you gain 3db. I won't get into more specifics but all I can say is that going from a 500 wt to 1000 wts will make little difference. its more for headroom, not continuous use. and I saw that the most that samson could put out into 4 ohms was 500wt rms. you ask about bridged, this is when the amp combines both of its channels into one. so instead of stereo you combine it to mono. this is meant to gain much more power into one channel.So you think the ported sub is the way to go? Where do I pick up MDF board, at a lumber yard or at a specialty speaker store?-------------------------------------------------------------------------the reason I say go ported is because it will give you more spl. ive had speakers that are ported and some that aren't-including my sub. big difference in power needed to drive them. and because the drivers your looking at are very well built you won't need to worry about sloppy, uncontroled bass(ported usually tends to not have as tight of bass. sealed has tighter bass). I think, if I remember right, if you put two speakers(identical ones) in enclosures- one of them in the correct sealed enclousure and the other in correct ported enclosure, the one in the ported will play 3db louder. to get the other up to that spl you'll need to double the power.here, go to this link:this might better explain db to you. but i don't think it talks about ported/sealed enclousures....and yes mdf is at lumber stores usually. there are acoustic grades of mdf but any mdf should do.scp53----------------
Thanks for all of the helpful advice/information. Now, let me ask another question. If I bought two of those 12" DVCs could I place them in the same box, send a channel from the amp to each woofer and double the output of the subwoofer or would it be better to just build two boxes?
D
-
----------------On 7/19/2004 5:52:52 PM Scp53 wrote:first off let me say that I am very depressed. your gonna have a better sub than I have.congradulations on coming to the light, this is where you get very good performance for the $$$.the only thing I question is:will that samson control phase and the crossover point? I don't think it will but maybe Im wrong. you may need a crossover control or somthing. or an eq. I dunno. I will say that for 360 that is a heck of a nice amp. svs sells them(samson) on there site but for 100 more or so. does you reciever control crossover point? maybe that would work. and can you get it to 4 ohms bridged? running 8 ohms into a 4 ohm driver is not good. causes more heat on amp. although 500 wts into 4 ohms is very good. jumping from 500 to 1000 wts is doubling your wattage. every time you double wattage you gain 3db(roughly). so going from 500 to 1000 wts may or may not be a big deal. having that 1000 wts is just good for peaks in movie/music playback.note: 3db is audioable to some people and hardly at all to others. either way its a small increase in output.for the cab, call partsexpress up. get the correct cab size for a PORTED HOME CAB with the TITANIC MKIII 15" DRIVER. I would recommend using foam on the sides. they can tell you the correct foam to use. and how thick, etc. you may be able to friction fit the foam in- no glue or adhisive needed.and when you build the cab, internally brace it for sure. what wood are you going to use? I highly recommend mdf. consitantly dense and good for speaker building. and then you need to buy a port. PE tech support can tell you what size. I beleive they sell ports called "Percision Ports" or something like that. just don't buy a really cheap port. get one with flared end(s)- or what ever PE tells you to use. flared will help get rid of port turbulence- if any.just make sure that you have a friend to help you move it. its gonna be a beast. 100+ lbs. do you have long enough arms to reach around it and hold on?hopefully it will be a pleasent experience...good luck
scp53Jonps: tell use how you like it when its done. don't take to many pictures off the wall
----------------
It will take months before I get this project started and probably a month or so after that before I complete it. However, you will be more than welcome to borrow it if you ever happen to be cruising through Oklahoma.
However, with that said, you have raised several more questions. You think the 12" DVC would perform as well as the 15" Titantic? How do you install a cross over if neither my prospective amp nor my receiver (Denon 3801) have crossover controls? I will have to check to see if the Denon has such controls, I just bought it and don't know off the top of my head. Bridged? Don't know about it, please explain. So, a 500 watt amp could suffice with hardly a noticable drop-off? So, it's not like a 1000 watt amp will appear as twice as powerful as a 500 watt? So you think the ported sub is the way to go? Where do I pick up MDF board, at a lumber yard or at a specialty speaker store?
If I get this thing built and it sounds great I will have pictures strung from here to china... and back again!
Thanks,
D-Rex
-
----------------On 7/19/2004 3:30:21 PM itsmyforte wrote:check out this driver. it was made by an OEM company who designes some VERY impressive sub drivers for other manufacturers.a sub cabinet shouldn't cost more than $100 total to make. two sheets of 3/4 MDF double up your front wall thickness to 1.5", box of screws and wrap it in your choice of vinyl. there are some free software programs out there that can help you with box design, but what you MUST know is the T/S parameters are accurate before you design an enclosure. generally you can be 20% + or - in volume and still be within 2db of the optimum output when your talking sealed boxes. you might pick up the book bullock on boxes for a good read.----------------
I checked it out but I cuoldn't find it in a 15" version. That seems to be a great discount off the MSRP but it seems the Titantic would still give me the bigger "bang" for the buck.
I will certainly pay close atteniton to the guidelines when building the box which might mean I am back here asking more questions.
Thanks,
D-Rex
-
How is this for a plan?
Buy the 15" Titantic (around $220 with shipping.)
Buy the Samson S1000 ($359 with shipping at americanaudiocenter.com)
$150 for cab, spikes and grill.
This is a little more than the kit but I get an external amp and a box that I can refinish as I wish. It seems I could go ahead and buy the driver and get to work building the cabinet and then pick up the amp next month, spacing out the costs a little.
Am I missing anything that would add any significant additional costs?
Man, I am really liking this idea but I gotta be missing something else...
-
double post
-
Thanks for your opinions Malcom and hardhead (no offense)
, I am definitely leaning towards the external amp now. I was liking it before just because I could put those amp controls closer to my stereo components but you guys offer some good reasons beyond that as well! -
----------------On 7/19/2004 1:26:08 AM Scp53 wrote:just checked your room specs, 12' x 16'... that 12 titanic will be fine. is your floor cement or is it elevated. trust me, this can make a big difference in its shaking ability. if you can afford it though, get the 15inch- won't have to push it as hard to get the spl you want. Im writing all this thinking you want to go diy. is this the case?----------------
I am currently in a house with crawl space but I will most likely be in a cement slab floored house within the next few years. This house rocks when someone is walking, I can't imagine how badly the foundation will crumble with the sub I want to buy/build!
I would love to go DIY, but, it is extremely obvious I have alot of learning to do before I do. I am used to working with 3/4" plyboard, what is the best material to use to build the housing for the sub? @@@@@@@(I have went and seen they actually sell the kits with cabinets for the sub and everything... very handy! Is that what you used for your sub?)@@@@@@@@ How do I know what dimensions to use? Which is best, down firing or front firing? I have been focusing on the front firing models because it seems to shoot the waves at you but that could have just been the RSW-15. @@@@@@ I think I would love the Titanic 15" but I would probably want to build my own cabinet and place a finish that I would want on it. Is that what you did or did you go with the pre-built cabinet? @@@@@@@@@
Did you build yours with little spiked feet or some kind of legs to elevate it off the floor? (If yours is a down firing you obviously did this.) Do you have any pictures to show your style?
Yo have been a world of help so far and actually have me believing I can build this thing!
-
----------------On 7/18/2004 10:05:44 PM Scp53 wrote:I say DIY all the way- and you already have a driver.tell me which Dayton sub you have- is it a quatro, dvc, titanic or...?and what 15inch would you want to get? I think your best bet would be either to run both in seperate chambers- same cab- full range(ported,sealed??). but maybe you could do some crossover work and have the 12 do the higher parts and the 15 ultra low bass..?but I personally feel get ONE good sub driver and a amp. multiple drivers will work but can cause more problems. if you really want to use dual drivers, buy a identical sub as you already have(figuring that the driver is suitable for car- which I think it is). this will make sure that there perfectly matched.where would you buy the 500 wt amp? if u use that kind of power the driver needs to be more sensitive to get something out of it... like those titanics(i have one), the only reason u need a lot of power is to make up for there lower sensitivity.good luck. make sure to tell us what driver you have.scp53----------------
It is a 12" Infinite Baffle Dayton subwoofer speaker. Everything else you said is much like Greek to me. From what you said I presume the actual speaker (portion with the magnet) is the driver. If that is true there is a 15" driver from a Klipsch RSW-15 on Ebay that I would bid on. One sold a few weeks back for $200. I was thinking of the RSW-15 sub when I was mentioning placing both "drivers" in the same box. I was wanting to attempt to recreate what I felt at Ultimate Electronics a few weeks ago (when I first heard the RSW-15) by placing two "drivers" in my DIY sub.
Ported? Sealed? No clues what you mean here. But, with each conversation with you I gain a little more each time.
Thanks,
D-Rex
-
----------------On 7/18/2004 7:30:29 PM Scp53 wrote:Id use the rb 5's for mains. and then get a better sub. like how much more will you spend on a sub?would you consider making your own passive sub? I know for a fact that you can get better performance from a DIY sub than a prebuilt passive.goodluckscp53----------------
If I go the cheap sub I would probably get the Sony 150W for about $160 and use it until next summer when I expect to have more funds available. If I do this then I can purchase a set of used RF-3s for about $525. That is the plan my wife wants. If I went the other way I would have approximately $650 to spend on a sub but the ones I want are just a tad more than that...
On the DIY topic, I have a 12" Dayton subwoofer speaker (speaker only). I bought it originally for a car but would it work for a home theatre sub? Is What if I bought a 15" speaker and placed them both into one cabinet with a 500W external amp? Could I do that? I love working with wood so that part would be no problem...
Thanks,
D-Rex
-
----------------On 7/18/2004 11:46:34 AM Scp53 wrote:I have never used a external amp for a sub. it would be better in some ways because you'll have less to rattle and it will weigh less too.I thought you were going with a klipsch,yammie,or velodyne. now you want you amp seperate? svs sells amps, so does partsexpress.com. but PE doesn't have any that are meant to be external. they have like 3 different ones that would interest pwr wise- 250,500 and 1000 watts rms into 4 ohm amps. the 500wt cost $300 and the 1000wt is $400. these are marked down though:500wt specs reg price- $500* High power class AB output stage* Patented tracking downconverter power supply* Full parametric bass EQ* Phase reversal switch* Advanced soft clip circuitry* Toroidal power supply transformer* Auto On/Off* Power output: 273 watts RMS @ 8 ohms, 540 watts RMS @ 4 ohms* S/N ratio: 98 dB (A weighted)* Crossover: 30 - 200 Hz, 24 dB/octave1000 watt specs - reg price: $600# High power Class AB output stage# Patented tracking downconverter power supply# Full parametric bass EQ# Phase reversal switch# Auto On/Off# Advanced soft clip circuitry# Toroidal power supply transformer# Power output: 512 watts RMS @ 8 ohms, 1024 watts RMS @ 4 ohms# S/N ratio: 98 dB (A-weighted)# Low-pass crossover: 30 - 200 Hz, 24 dB/octave# Auto On/Offheres a link to all PE's plate amps-good luckscp53----------------
I am still waffling between buying a used pair of RF3's and a cheaper sub, or going with a more expensive sub and using my RB-5's as mains for a while. It would be easier to figure out if one of my RB-5s weren't damaged during shipping. Right now I only have one hooked up with the other one waiting for FedEx to pick up to be replaced by insurance.
Now, there is a passive sub that has come into the picture so I am trying to learn a little so I can fully consider my options. If I drag this out enough it could be Christmas!
Thanks for the info,
Dallas
-
Which do you prefer? Where are good, reliable, and affordably priced amps located?
Thanks,
D-Rex
-
----------------On 7/18/2004 10:03:28 AM dougdrake wrote:They are made of real wood products (MDF) covered with a veneer. You can strip veneer, if you are very careful, I would suppose, but I don't really know anything about it.----------------
No, that doesn't sound good. If there is nothing but a wood product under the veneer then there is probably no real wood grain underneath the veneer to refinish. If it isn't real wood (such as Oak) then I think it would be best to just leave it as is...
Thanks,
D-Rex
-
Assuming these are constructed of real wood, have you heard of anyone stripping them to apply the color of their own choosing?
Thanks,
Dallas
-
----------------On 7/14/2004 10:42:50 PM radiob wrote:I have a paradigm servo 15, and I have listened to many different subs. The servo 15 is one of the best available.----------------
That looks like a monster my friend! I wonder how far off the PW 2200 would be from the servo 15. If the 2200 were even 50% of the servo then it would probably be a pretty good buy at less that $500, wouldn't you think?
-
Anyone have any experience with this subwoofer or another similar version from Paradigm? I see several opportunities to get a subwoofer off Ebay but it is very difficult comparing what is the best value when I haven't heard them before. There are a few HSU's, a SVS, and this Paradigm that all seem able to meet my sub needs. Of course, there are some price differences between them all but I want to get the most out of my money. Any info appreciated...
Thanks,
D-Rex
Down Firing vs. Front Firing
in Home Theater
Posted
What kind of effect would a down firing sub have on a house with crawl space, in other words, not a concrete slab? Would that absorb more of the impact or would it be easier to shake the house down?