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nola

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Everything posted by nola

  1. Michael, oh Master of the Home Made Sub, thanx. Yes, I did drive myself nuts. And yup, no clue how to change the room nodes. I am rearranging the bedroom once again (due to more construction) and have made a new audio rack this week. So no more recent in room tests. I appreciate what you have noted too. I have found my Audyssey mic again and may retest this weekend or next week. I also want to take a few spkrs into the parking lot here (only semi open space) to test a few spkrs sans room effects. If I do this, I will go from laptop output directly to a SS amp (?LT channel only), then to 1 speaker. Likely hold RS SPL meter about 3 ft of the ground, aimed straight up and maybe plugged directly into lappy to try to record output SPL of test tones. O/W I will have to record results all manually.I figure to do this about 9-12 ft from the spkr and to do 1 set straight on and another a few feet away (?15-30 degreesoff center). At least this might tell me that my spkrs are in spec. On a Lacala I also want to test an un-recapped AA network, my recapped AA, and one of the ALK Unis that I made. I would like to test the ALK trachorn too. Could also test each driver separately to check the effective roll offs from the passive networks. I would also like to test the WF-34 towers vs some new AV123 525s. Would also like to check my H Is and H IIs, and Academies. Of course all of this depends on weather, and it gets very hot and humid here over the 6 plus months of summer. Last weekend was sheer and utter misery, perfect for indoor stuff only. I am getting some Altec 511s soon (902 drivers just arrived), but do not have a 2 way xover as yet. Is there a way to adjust a AA for 2 way use with a crossover at 500 Hz? Maybe later this fall I will get an active xover ?Behringer, dbx, or Ashley.
  2. Mr K, big owie to the Uni. (Local news had a small child with lots of rat bites tonight...) Post Katrina, glue traps, rat zappers, etc., and ferral cats did the job in the French Quarter. BTW, was it an African or European variety and of course, what was its favorite color (Python, Monty et le Grail du Jesu)? Bonne chance mon ami. Felecitacions de la Lousianne et la Nouvelle Orleans, America's 4th world country.......
  3. MC240 amp Q. I own 2 of them; each with different tubes. Intended to bi amp Khorns post Katrina. Might end up tri amping with actve xover, ? dbx PA plus, later this yr. Also have LSs and HIs, all from late 70s. I did Crites Sonicaps on the AAs, changed out inductor screws and bought ALK kit - mind you ALK for the KHs. I like the other ideas listed by the thread starter. Also add possible issues of demag'd Alnico drivers to his list of things to check/do. Did he check the ohms across drivers? Per the MC 240 amp, I have talked to a few people in the last couple of months who have noted that the 240 is the most solid state sounding tube amp that they had heard. I have to admit, that compared to my SS amps, I had a hard time noting differences. What are your thoughts? GO WINGS!! (Spent 2 yrs at U of M).
  4. Repeated the test tone tests tonight. Last night was Onkyo 805 stereo mode only with subwoofer. I do not think the center channel speaker nor surrounds let out any sound. Tonight was in Onkyo 805 Theater-Dimentional mode and Neural THX (whatever that is) modes. I do tend to use these for MP3s via lappy and analog signals. I cannot test out dbx or dolby 5.1 without using digital signal source (like HDMI or optical, neither of which I can do from the lappy). Center speaker was used by the Onkyo in tonights tests, but I think the surrounds were silent. I inputed the sound via the 1/8 jack on the laptop and had splitter to 2 analog rca jacks into the onkyo Wow, what a difference between the sound field settings. The RS SPL was in a slightly different place last night, but that alone would not explain the big to huge diffs between settings. However, many of the peak and valley areas are seen in all 3 settings. http://picasaweb.google.com/k7100x/BedroomSPLCharts#5355938864258412274 stereo mode from 7 6 9 http://picasaweb.google.com/k7100x/BedroomSPLCharts#5355938864051597234 TD mode and corrections 7 7 9 http://picasaweb.google.com/k7100x/BedroomSPLCharts#5355938863751686402 TD and neural tests 7 7 9 http://picasaweb.google.com/k7100x/BedroomSPLCharts#5355938864494086370 All 3 modes graphed together not sure what i doing wrong as the pix above do not show up.....
  5. Analysis of Klipschorn and La Scala cabinets with several drivers lists info on several drivers. But I am still a bit confused on what is considered the appropriate usable range for these drivers. I was esp concerned loking at the curves on pg 1 of that thread as K33 gets below 60-70 Hz (yet the Khorn rates down to 38 Hz) and when the K33 is above 400 Hz or so. I googled, but no luck on finding the SPL vs frequency charts for these drivers (offical or unofficial real world test). My reason for asking: if I buy Altec 511 or 811 horns (or other horn that is only usable down to 500 or 800 Hz), can I rely on the K-33 up to 500 or 800 Hz? Khorn and/or LaScala bass bin. I have various subs for my main room. All are 18", single or dual driver cabs.So, where to set my LFE/sub xover point, as the subs can go over 100 Hz? (B1800X 42-250 Hz, xover at 80-150 Hz, low / high pass filters at 175 Hz). Similar issues regarding the mids (vs trachorns) and tweeters (vs Crites or Beyma). Thx NOLA
  6. Thanx folks. Here is the link to the excel spreadsheet template, there is also one from aci (subwoofer folks in wisconsin), but I think this one is easier to use: http://home.comcast.net/~thomasw_2/FreqResp.xls It will lead to a file "FreqResp" under excel. I changed most all of the given number settings in the table and added my own. Thus my graph is actually totally different from that intended by the author. However, as I do know how to do this stuff under excel, it is the best template that I could find. It allows for 3 curves to be drawn. So my 3 curves were: SPL reading, stnd SPL crxn, and addl crxn as given below. I added the correction values as noted below 100 HZ I added a bunch of test frequncies Column 1: HZ, Col 2: basic SPL correction found on the net Col 3: from a single audiogon posting and never verified elsewhere as being correct, 1250-200 is flat or 0 http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&983682086&openfrom&2&4#2 Otherwise, where no correction factor is listed, I did not find one. Note that the addl freqs tested were musical note freqs or other values generated by thecomputer tone generator software used. Below 15 Hz (and at 20, sort of) I was not able to yield "sound" or test tone to make a sound. I was kind of impressed by my RSW-15 20000 1 11.2 16000 0 8.5 12500 0.5 6.2 10000 -1 4.4 8000 -2 3 6300 -2 2 5000 -2 1.3 4000 -2 0.8 3150 -1.5 0.5 2500 -1.5 0.3 2000 -1.5 0.2 1600 -0.5 0.1 1250 0 1000 0 800 0 630 0 500 -0.5 400 0 315 -0.5 250 0.5 200 -0.5 160 -0.5 0.1 125 0.5 0.2 100 2 0.3 92.5 82 80 1.5 0.5 78 73.4 69.3 65.4 63 1.5 0.8 61.7 55 50 1.5 1.3 49 43.6 41.2 40 2.5 2 39 35 31.5 3 3 31 27.5 26 25 5 5 21.8 20.6 7.5 7.1 19.4 18.4 16.4 16 11.5 15 12 16.5 10 20 I will try more stuff this week and try a 5.1 test tonight and a lt or rt spkr on its own too. Will also try using the non audisey system to correct specific freqs via 805 itself. Thx
  7. SPL vs Frequency Chart of Bedroom Icon WF-34s In Stereo Mode With RSW-15 Sub. I hope I did not goof this up by testing 2 speakers and a sub at the same time. If I did, let me know. Done with RS analog SPL meter. Blue is orig numbers, red is with SPL correction numbers from the net and green is an addl set of corrections posted on audiogon some time ago. I did not have crxn values for all frequencies. Sub crossover was set to 80 Hz. I don't know if the surround spkrs operated in this stereo mode off of the Onkyo 805. The center was not operational. Used test tones generated from my laptop - NCH tone generator and SigJenny, both free. Also noted that higher freq test tones varied as much as 20 dB (3150 and 2000 Hz) depending on even small changes in position from 400-12500 Hz. But usually moving the SPL around a few feet yield dB readings within 5 db.This was especially variable near headboard of bed, maybe due to hard wood and brick wall reflecting the sound. Looks like I have sonic holes at 65, 73, 400, 2K, and above 8k. I have not tried the Audisey system nor the sep spkr crxn features on the 805. Guess that's next. However: -did I do this test correcty - am I stuck with multiple room nodes, including the sub holes at 65 and 73 Hz?
  8. Is Demagnetization in Alnico Drivers Ever a Real Problem? Older Heritage gear (Klipschorns, LaScalas, Heresy's) all use Alnico drivers. Most of mine are 20-35 yrs old now. I think older Altec-Lansing drivers were also alnicos. An old article found via a search for the Altec 511 horn and Voice of the Theatre speakers (VOTT) mentioned that demagnetization could be a reason for some speakers to sound bad. Has anyone here on the forums, or at the Mother Ship (Professor Thump, Trey, etc) ever noted, or even looked for this? How would you know if you had a demag'd driver? A wiki search for alnico confirms this: "This means alnico can produce a strong magnetic flux in closed magnetic circuit, but has relatively small resistance against demagnetization." Has anyone ever tested the old alnicos? I am not even sure how to test them. If they were out of spec, how would you re magnetize them to factory spec or are they just killed? Hope I posted this to the correct forum here. I also posted this at Audiokarma. (Man, the crazy things that come up in LA). Thx NOLA
  9. colin, could i get your 2 cents on this: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/Magazine/manufacture/0403/ I also posted re active vs passive xovers in the ? 2 ch forum. Are you the author, or another colleague at ETM? thx Brian
  10. We likes homework, we do, we do. I found this thread by accident when looking up info on inductors and wondering why the old Klipsch AA inductors looked so rinky dink compared to the new ones on the ALK kit. Also tried to figure how to replace the older stuff. However, could not find a new .245 mH; just the Solen .24mH. Ok, will anyone be able to hear the 2% difference? LOL. But I am glad that I found the info on the magnetic screw; but again, will anyone be able to hear the difference? BTW GotHover you are into some really cool stuff. We likes.....we do, we do. But you will only be as cool as Colter if you own 2 of everything.....unless....dare I say it........can you put things on top of other things (Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things / Escape (from film) As featured in the Monty Python Flying Circus TV Show - Episode 18)? From Your Correspondant in LA, on vacation, "Water, water everywhere. Please advise". NOLA
  11. Well, sooner or later I was going to have to pop the Q: Active vs passive Xovers...... I am on vacation now and a bit confused by this stuff. I went to an audio place in LA for Pro Audio, in brief, active only on PA rigs. So......why not in consumer stuff ????? Here are some anti passive xover URLs found via google. BTW I could not find any that said that passive was better; just that passive is more "convenient" or less expensive or easier to set up. Mind you, I have never heard anyone in a band seriously complain about xover set ups. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/Magazine/manufacture/0403/ http://sound.westhost.com/lr-passive.htm "Most people who have read my pages will know by now that I am not a fan of passive crossovers. However, sometimes it is the only sensible approach, or is necessary because of financial considerations or just for simplicity. Before deciding on the use of a passive rather than active crossover, the following article will surprise you - perhaps even enough to make you decide to go active after all." My journey has included Crites recaps on my 2 AA networks for KHs and LSs and an ALK Uni kit. I figure that if active was that much better, it would be an option offered by high end speaker companies. To the best of my knowledge, it isn't. We have an audio club in New Orleans and although I have never asked about active vs passive xovers over the past year, no one has mentioned using actives. I have heard spkrs well above Klipsch prices, including 13K Maggies and a 45K pair (forgot manuf). Surely the guy who paid 45k for a pr of spkrs can afford a K or 2 more if active is that much better. I have read this thread and a couple of others elsewhere in the webesphere with interest tonight. Given my rig (with addition of ALKs Trachorns and likely Altec 511 pruchase) where does one begin? Maybe with the units mentioned in the thread like the Ashley XR201 (?how many spkrs can 1 unit control) or Behringer ?DCN and DEQ 2496s for xover and EQ? Can these do both 2 way and 3 way active xovers? Can you do passive to the woofer and active between mid and tweeter? How to set these up (that is, real idiot proof instructions for noobs)? Etc. Oh, have a happy 4th.) NOLA in the other LA now
  12. http://home.comcast.net/~wooferboy/The_Audio_Engineering_League.html This guy has some cool stuff. However, many links do not work and no email reply. If anyone knows any info pls let me know. Paging Wooferboy, Paging Wooferboy....... "Audio Engineering League Projects A Premium Quality AA-Network for the Klipschorn The JBL 2123J Project The Super Klipschorn Project A Photo Essay of a Klipschorn Build A Large Format Subwoofer Using the McCauley 6174"
  13. What makes an orchestra or a choir or a marching band - everything working together. Howvwer when A/B testing, having 4 sets of leads to detach and reattach (in/wf/mid/tw) each time is beyond tedious. Also gives me the chance to look at each component completely unto itself. (This assumes that there is no "back talk" from the other drivers. I should note that when I even kept common - neg - leads between xovers the results indicated some type of inter crossover crosstalk, so that idea died quickly. Also, if I accidentally plugged the mid neg or pos lead into the tweeter or woofer neg or pos, even for a few seconds, etc., the results were a bit funky too). By looking at each component on its own (playing the CD/DVD Mon night)I was able to note stuff not noted in full 3 way. Sort of like why each speaker should be tested on its own, with nothing else on. I should note that the test tones were only tested in full 3 way; once on the AA, and once on the ALK (my CD did not burn the v high freq TTs properly!!!!, thus had to listen with laptop hooked in to 990 via 1/8" plug to stereo RCA jacks type wiring.) I like the part about the bad kitchen radio, It is kinda like a mid range on its own
  14. ALK Unis vs AAs; Wooden Horns vs Metal Horns; Can Hardly Hear the Tweeter sorry for the ptl repost Search terms: compare differences ALK Universal crossover network to vs Klipsch AA xover network; wooden horn; magnetised screw 0.245 mH inductor. First results, all tested from my LT Khorn, RT Khorn and subwoofer usually disconnected, at 11pm - 1 am: 1) Both my N '75 and T 1979 AA networks (Khorn N and LaScala T) had magnetic screws thru the .245 mH inductor. They were removed (see other thread). When I listened to the speakers running all components at the same time I not hear any difference screws in or out, nor with a magnet (refrig note magnet) adj to it. I did not test the components separately trying this. Boy, compared to the Solen Litz 16 AWG .24s, the Klipsch.245s look iddy biddy tiny. I will get new non magnetic screws. -- Got them from Lowes, both steel and brass non magnetic wooden screws #10, 1-1.5" long. 2) When listened to full range with Barry White's Greatest Hits CD and Elton John 60th B'day DVD, the diffs were - to me - minor, ALK vs recapped AA.However, when the woofer, mid and tweeter were assessed separately, diffs were significant. (NB: I never tested my KHs, H Is, nor H IIs this carefully, 1 component / driver at a time, following my Crites Sonicap recaps.) - stock K 77 tweeter (others not connected). Well, I could not hear much from it from either network, AA nor ALK. Even pulled open an H II to test the tweeter lead, attaching it to the H II K 76, in case something was wrong wth my K 77 - again not loud at all. Either I have high frequency hearing loss or the tweeters are simply not loud. In fact, to me they were both kind of quiet. As memory serves me, my hearing test test a yr ago only tested me up to 4000 Hz. Isn't that roughly the cutoff between midrange and tweeter? Has anyone else listened to 1 tweeter at a time / in isolation? Is it "loud" like the midrange? In short, run full range I first thought the highs were better off the ALK. But just listening to the tweeter alone disproved that. Makes me wonder if there really any point in getting the Crites C125. I really would like feedback about tweeter loudness, etc. -- I pondered if this was a DVD player problem. Per test tone stuff below, it wasn't. Also, big drop in perception of sound loudness and drop in SPLs about around 5KHz. This cannot be properly appreciated without test tones - as done on night 2 of the tests. This drop around 5k was also noted in the bedroom tower based system. K 55 V stock metal horn and K 55 M coupled to the ALK wooden trachorn - others not connected.This was interesting. The 2 horns were clearly different when listened to separately. The diffs were clearly more notable off the ALK. I think the dynamic range of the 55m/woodie was less than the stock 55v/metal. I will have to test some more in case this was due to the 55v vs 55m driver. I pulled a 55v off the LaScala to do the test, but have not done it yet. What I heard seems to run counter to what others have posted. Mr K, others please chime in; I thought the wooden horn would have done better. Not using the RS SPL meter, it took me a while to figure out setting off the ALK AT (transformer) would match the loudness of the AA, in order to make comparisons fair (I used the next to least attn settings.The setting mentioned by Mr. K for the AT was much quieter than the AA). I did not do this until almost the end of my tests. At first, I thought the AA was better, but at near equal sound levels (best guess by ear) the ALK and AA were both pleasing but different. Not sure how to explain it though. Could it be due to each network having somewhat different cutoffs per the mid range horn,? I guess. I have to admit, that listening to the mid metal horn alone seemed ok, with both networks. K33 woofer (others not connected) - again, maybe due to different cutoffs to mid horn, the ALK seemed to have a wider range than the AA. Just listening to the K33 alone is not a very pleasing experience. Sub listened to / felt with others not running was interesting, but not especially pleasing. Now, WOW pods or U 571 depth charges are another story The ALK I used for these tests was not the one with solder spot on the .20 mH coil (just to be fair, although that one sounds nice too). The AA I used was the only 1 I recapped, pulled from the same LT KH. Of the 2 wooden horns that I have, I have only listened to 1 so far. Pls keep in mind that I had 8-12 feet of test wires (14 AWG) running from the appropr network to the LT KHorn. I was not a fast lead switcher betw networks either. Also, I only tested the 2 sources mentioned via a stereo setting. My 990 does not do mono. All comments are both welcome and appreciated. Just listened with test CD and audio signal or test tone generator. I think I really am half deaf now-just from the piercing sounds.The computer tt gen used is SigJenny. http://binkster.net/extras.shtml#cd bear in mind v high freq tones did not CD well and had to played directly off the laptop http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm mostly for lower freq I tested both my bedroom WF 34s and AV123 ELT525s and RSW 15 (5.1) system and my main room Khorns and a dual 18" driver sub. Above 5k or so my perception of the sound level really dropped off; as did the RS SPL. But unlike last nights music only test, at least I think I can hear up to 12K Hz (based on the TTs) ok. I see the audiologist tomorrow for the very high freq stuff, maybe up to 16k Hz. Boy, those high pitched tones and a few others can be killer after just a few seconds. If the TTs are supposed to be at the same SPLs throughout, both my rooms are accoustic nightmares. In some cases, my ears and the SPL meter hugely disagreed on the apparent loudness of the tones. Remember to expect this non linear response in biologic systems, we are all imperfect (some more than others of course). With the higher pitched stuff, moving even a small amount in the room made a tremendous difference in the loudness and ?stereo imaging? of the sound. Wow, I would have never noticed this without the TTs and the SPL in combo.
  15. Search terms: compare differences ALK Universal crossover network to vs Klipsch AA xover network; wooden horn; magnetised screw 0.245 mH inductor. First results, all tested from my LT Khorn, RT Khorn and subwoofer usually disconnected, at 11pm - 1 am: 1) Both my N '75 and T 1979 AA networks (Khorn N and LaScala T) had magnetic screws thru the .245 mH inductor. They were removed (see other thread). When I listened to the speakers running all components at the same time I not hear any difference screws in or out, nor with a magnet (refrig note magnet) adj to it. I did not test the components separately trying this. Boy, compared to the Solen Litz 16 AWG .24s, the Klipsch.245s look iddy biddy tiny. I will get new non magnetic screws. 2) When listened to full range with Barry White's Greatest Hits CD and Elton John 60th B'day DVD, the diffs were - to me - minor, ALK vs recapped AA. However, when the woofer, mid and tweeter were assessed separately, diffs were significant. (NB: I never tested my KHs, H Is, nor H IIs this carefully, 1 component / driver at a time, following my Crites Sonicap recaps.) - stock K 77 tweeter (others not connected). Well, I could not hear much from it from either network, AA nor ALK. Even pulled open an H II to test the tweeter lead, attaching it to the H II K 76, in case something was wrong wth my K 77 - again not loud at all. Either I have high frequency hearing loss or the tweeters are simply not loud. In fact, to me they were both kind of quiet. As memory serves me, my hearing test test a yr ago only tested me up to 4000 Hz. Isn't that roughly the cutoff between midrange and tweeter? Has anyone else listened to 1 tweeter at a time / in isolation? Is it "loud" like the midrange? In short, run full range I first thought the highs were better off the ALK. But just listening to the tweeter alone disproved that. Makes me wonder if there really any point in getting the Crites C125. I really would like feedback about tweeter loudness, etc. K 55 V stock metal horn and K 55 M coupled to the ALK wooden trachorn - others not connected. This was interesting. The 2 horns were clearly different when listened to separately. The diffs were clearly more notable off the ALK. I think the dynamic range of the 55m/woodie was less than the stock 55v/metal. I will have to test some more in case this was due to the 55v vs 55m driver. I pulled a 55v off the LaScala to do the test, but have not done it yet. What I heard seems to run counter to what others have posted. Mr K, others please chime in; I thought the wooden horn would have done better. Not using the RS SPL meter, it took me a while to figure out setting off the ALK AT (transformer) would match the loudness of the AA, in order to make comparisons fair (I used the next to least attn settings.The setting mentioned by Mr. K for the AT was much quieter than the AA). I did not do this until almost the end of my tests. At first, I thought the AA was better, but at near equal sound levels (best guess by ear) the ALK and AA were both pleasing but different. Not sure how to explain it though. Could it be due to each network having somewhat different cutoffs per the mid range horn,? I guess. I have to admit, that listening to the mid metal horn alone seemed ok, with both networks. K33 woofer (others not connected) - again, maybe due to different cutoffs to mid horn, the ALK seemed to have a wider range than the AA. Just listening to the K33 alone is not a very pleasing experience. Sub listened to / felt with others not running was interesting, but not especially pleasing. Now, WOW pods or U 571 depth charges are another story The ALK I used for these tests was not the one with solder spot on the .20 mH coil (just to be fair, although that one sounds nice too). The AA I used was the only 1 I recapped, pulled from the same LT KH. Of the 2 wooden horns that I have, I have only listened to 1 so far. Pls keep in mind that I had 8-12 feet of test wires (14 AWG) running from the appropr network to the LT KHorn. I was not a fast lead switcher betw networks either. Also, I only tested the 2 sources mentioned via a stereo setting. My 990 does not do mono. All comments are both welcome and appreciated.
  16. I used Sonicaps. Purchased 3 kits from Bob Crites. Price was more than fair considering the advice given to a noob. I did call him a few times. I do not remember the source of the 68 uF cap for the Heresy II. Solen, Madisound, Munson and others are websites and maunf folks. Prices vary widely. I do not know what Dean G uses nor Popbumper. My ALK kit included Solens, Sonicap and Hovland. No idea where ALK found the Hovland. Amazingly wide variation in cap prices. I guess, like anything else, you get what you pay for. I think with ALK testing the caps, the side to side matches are better. My main room was too hot test the Uni this weekend. But it is raining in New Orleans now, so maybe tonight. NOLA
  17. Bruce, I agree. It is an art. And I am a rank amateur here. As per a 3D layout, keep in mind that testing out the xover and AT settings would always be done with the xover not sealed behind a Khorn. Thus access to the AT taps would not be an issue. However, as the Belle or a LaScala does not need to sit in a corner, that is a different story. But even here, testing it out on top or to the side of the spkr would make life easier. In my case, I have 8-12 feet of test lead wires (yup, that crap Philips 14 AWG wire), to make A/B comparisons easier. Mr K does mention the component interactions for the extreme slope xover builds. Hey if we add tube caps and tube inductors we add to prettiness factor too, LOL. I would still like Dean G, Mr K, et al to comment on passive vs active xovers and EQing (re Behringer deq and dsc? 2496 devices). Thx Brian
  18. Claude I did my Fellowship at U of M: GO WINGS!! I think we need to chat, unless you can post an explanation of exactly how to do this and the equip't required. Thanx NOLA
  19. Dean G - no offense taken. I work in an X ray dep't and before we do any procedure or use any equip't on a patient we check it out and/or do a dry run as needed. I did not do that with Mr Ks Uni. I should have read thru the directions twice and laid everything out. Had I done so, and if the inductors and caps could be placed closely together (if that is 1 of the main goals, close but without crosstalk from adj coils, etc), I actually would have scrapped much of his assembly. I say this as follows (with total respect to Mr K): The 7.5 uF cap can be directly screwed into the therminal via its lead as the 6.2 and 1 uF caps are no longer used. Thus the solder spike is not needed, nor is the extra wire. I would move the AT to the back of the board, where the dual caps of 7.2 uF were in the orig plan. (Bob Crites lists a bevy of in and out terminal leads as part of his Klipsch replacement AT, with about a 1 dB diff per set of in and out leads. Is this also practical with the AT that Mr K uses, or simply overkill?) I would add a thick dowel or small vertical board to mount the 2 24uFs vertically or on top of each other where the AT is now and move the solder pin to that same area too. I would move the big 1.3 mH inductor closer by mounting it vertically, maybe near the 0.3 mH or place the 1.3 mH below the board or above the board perhaps on its own shelf. Yes, my litz leads look beyond goofy. I am not certain about where to place the ALK Uni. I might place it on top of the Khorn. Pls keep in mind that the existing 14g wire that I had is fine, as per the wire. But the insulator used by Philips was a complete disaster. The only way tell which wire is which is whether it has squared or rounded plastic. The wires are very close and very difficult to cut to spread apart without cutting thru to the wire itself. That was most of my wire trouble. I have great wire of other AWGs and plenty of AudioQuest bare wire for interconnects. I finally went to HD and bought more 14 AWG. I find the AT wire solution, well, in-elegant. I would have looped bare wire into the terminals for mid plus and minus. I would have given them long leads back to the AT. Attachments would have been with disconnect plugs at the AT (unless somebody has a better, non soldered plan), not to the terminal spades. So only 2 wires from the AT, not 7, and versatility would be maintained. Forgive me for tooting a horn: in our hospital we get many patients referred to do procedures that are not done elsewhere or failed elsewhere. A big part of my job is figuring out how to do procedures and get from point A to point B, where lots of vital structures are nearby, etc. I live in a 3D, not a 2D problem solving world. I have to figure out how to do this stuff. If I can't, the only other choice for the patients is the OR. I apply the same reasoning here. If a goal is to keep stuff tight (but not like the round cup H II), ok - we can all do that in 3D. If it is ok to spread the stuff around and 2D is fine, ok too - just let me know. These forums are teaching me all the stuff I never learned when I was 15 about electrical stuff. (Big smile) PS - my residents think I am working for Al Queda and making things (no Colter, not to put on top of other things) that go tick,tick.......LOL If it gets below 85 degrees in the main room, I will test out the ALKs tonight. Darn heat wave....
  20. ============== Here is the results: =============== Solen .2 mHy: L=.1986, DCR=.128, Q=43.8 Home-made PVC .2 mHy: L=.2048, DCR=.143, Q=25.8 Alpha Core .2 mHy: L=.1879 DCR=.098, Q=29.4 North Creek .18 mHy: L=.1686, DCR=.058, Q=11.4 North Creek .3 mHy: L=.304, DCR=.080, Q=10.4 Solen .3 mHy: L=.293, DCR=.158, Q=49.8 The .245 inductor from the Klipsch AA network (not shown in the photograph): Klipsch .245 mHy: L=.2628, DCR=.37, Q=21 CONCLUSION: The clear winners are the coils from Solen wound of Litz wire. The worst are the coils from North creek music. While good, the Alpha Core spiral inductor only manages to beat out the home made coil by about 4 points. If you are considering using these, use the Solen coils instead! At a Q of 21, the coils used by Klipsch are better than I expected and better then the heavy "upgrades" from North Creek Music. As you can see from the DCR on the Klipsch inductor it is would of rather thin wire. This proves that heavy wire is NOT the answer to good Q at 6000 Hz, "Litz" wire however IS the answer. This was from 9 years ago. Do you still recc pulling the screw and glueing the 0.245 mH inductor on the AA network? Any point in replacing it? If so, with what - I could not find a 0.245, just a solen litz 0.24 mH inductor. Any similar issues with the Heresy I or II (round cup) networks? Thx
  21. Pls forgive the noob post. I wish I knew what you folks were going on about. Also, with the graphs and numbers, what is "ideal" or even "better"? What are the practical applications of such differences - do they indicate which is simply the best driver or where xovers have to be changed, etc? Thx
  22. I own mutliple outlaw audio products. OA is great. Service and support, via forums and over the phone are tops (although they are always busy when you call, they do call you back and the reps are quite knowledgable. Never needed to call twice). However, think about it. I don't think the 970 has hdmi nor any of the newer dolby and dts stuff. My 990 (which I believe is the big brother to the 970) does not, but it is wonderful none the less. I just got a used onkyo heat machine the 805. Has just about everything. Shipped for about $450. But it has an amp built in, ok so the amp will not be that great spec wise. Also the 997 will cost $1400, or 1200 with the purchase of the 970. Sorry folks, unless you currently need a good quality but old tech system for a secondary room and already have an amp, I would pass. Another debate would be, you need a component in your main system now. Consider a used 990 (?$500) vs new 970 ($300) (either with a good quality used SS amp, I own the OA 750, ?$600) vs used 805 like mine (around $500). That is a tougher choice. I may wait a while before upgrading the 990, as it is already paid for and these dolby and dts soundfields change every 6 months or so.
  23. Virtually everyone I have met or spoken to about true active crossover bi-amping my Khorns over the past year or 2 has told me, more or less emphatically, not to do it. Most said, little bang for the buck. When you consider the snake oil that many talk about, that is really saying something. I have recapped Heresy Is, as memory serves me, little if any change noted. Maybe I was lucky on the old spam can caps. Recapped H IIs did sound a bit different, but also found a blown tweeter. Regardless, pre recap, the HIs and HIIs did not sound alike. Now they do sound more alike. My 1970s Khorns might have been recapped in the early 80s before I bought them over 20 yrs ago. I only recapped 1 so far, and no change in sound. I tested my old LaScala with spam cans. About 1 dB down vs the KH recap on the analog RS SPL meter. Both were AA networks. So I have not recapped the LSs yet. Plan to test newly make ALK Unis on the KH today. In short, old caps can sometimes be ok, sometimes not. I feel happier knowing that my stuff is within spec now. The ALK has an autotransformer that can be used to adjust how hot or cold you want the mid range horn to run. I am not an engineer, so I don't know why these networks don't have one AT for each component. Maybe due to cost? Also, the component builders will have to answer as to when simply decreasing the size of a capacitor to soften up a component is the best method vs adding resistors, ATs, etc. Apparently the parts for the xovers can get pricey. Also, if your stuff is old, like mine, check the ohms across the drivers and check the rubber / gaskets / etc on the woofers. I only did that on my Heresys as the woofers are easily checked. They were ok. I have not done this on the KHs nor LSs. However, despite being 30 plus years old and being non TLC'd during Katrina, they sound good. I do not want to tear off the old rubber woofer door gaskets for nothing. Forget about turning the LSs over to enter the "doghouse" just for fun. Pre-Katrina, various folks had told me to give biamping a whirl, but I am not certain that they understood what true multi amping meant (vs some form of bi-wire). However, where are you going to get the active x over required and at ? $300+ per speaker ? cost too. Colter has an active xover, I think, on his jubs (2 way). But like Noah, he has 2 of everything. What I might consider doing later this year is a bit different than the Qs you pose, but might require the same active xover network device: -- how to balance the various frequencies delivered by the speakers to the sweet spot of my couch, in my room. I think my goal would be to have various frequency test tones of equal loudness delivered to the couch. (Not sure how something determined to be flat on somebody else's system can be relied on in another system, in another room, etc. Not even sure where to find such test tones; needs a google I guess). Not sure if all the time and bother -- and cost would be worth it. To do the Xover, http://www.groundsound.com/dcn23kit.php is a 550 euro/about $800 shipped potential solution. Behringer dcx2496 costs $300 at partsexpress. The Behringer deq2496 is the same cost. However, I do not know how many speakers can be Xovered or EQd per groundsond / behringer device ?just 1, / 2 / 3? http://www.madisound.com/forum/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=2&topic_id=2938&mesg_id=2938&page= has a posting about this stuff. For doing anything beyond the 2 main speakers, the cost could get well out of hand. It would be interesting what the xover network builders here have to say about this. Al K has an over $1000 extreme slope network and I just built a Universal from a kit. How would these compare to a digital set up, like the Behringer dcx and deq combo? Just a few thoughts on a wickedly hot weekend. NOLA
  24. Thx for the reply. I tried reposting the pix, and they came a bit larger this time, but still not that big. I did understand the uF of the caps as labelled by the manufacturer. However there were other numbers on the caps which were written in grease pencil and had numbers ranging from about 3 to 25. These were the numbers that I did not understand. Maybe Mr K tested these on a machine like you suggested and tried to match them this way. Maybe these grease numbers were some relative value. The 2 solen 24 uF caps had grease numbers that added up to being only 1 number apart for each set. The Hovlands were a few numbers apart as were 7.5 uF solens. The 2.2 uF sonicaps were about 25% different (grease numbers). I thought others had said that the C125 ran "hot", so they might need attenuating. Mr Ks attenuators cost almost $90/pr. Potentiometers, L pads, or volume controls cost about $2-20/pr. I had previously used a cheap RS vol control to balance out an Academy center channel which was running "hot" compared to the Khorns. Prehaps not elegant, but it worked. If Mr.Ks attenuators were lower in price, if needed I would buy them in a heartbeat. I have no doubt that they are top of the line. However why get an expensive solution needlessly? For such a tiny amount of spilled solder, I was not sure either of these would work. (Several found at Radioshack website for $5-11, under desolder search term). The 10 ohm, 10 watt resistor was left "dangling" in mid air as far away from everything as possible. Mr K's instructions mentioned that this could get hot. Did I do this correctly? (It is the thin green tubular structure near the autotransformer). Also note the big sort of loops of excess red inductor wires. Not looped near the main coils though, so I guess they are ok, even if not elegant. I simply did not want to have to redo / de-enamel and resolder those Litz ends / connections. One of the 1.3 mH solid core wires was routed above the terminal strip (ALK Uni 1). Due to being a bit off on rotating that inductor coil, it wouldn't work well to route it along the back of the terminal strip. I also couldn't figure out where to glue the 24 uFs on the board if that wire was routed per directions. Although not in the pics, I did hot glue the terminal strip labels. Not sure how long they will stick. Again the problem was only getting a tiny amount of glue from the gun. By the time I applied the labels, some of the glue must have cooled a bit. I have some "Gorilla glue", bought for applying some weather stripping to my new (but used) French doors (hey, it's only 4 yrs post Katrina) that got put in Friday. Maybe I should have used that stuff. NOLA
  25. 2nd pic: Sorry the pix came out so tiny. Can repost if anyone asks with full size pics, but didn't want to waste space - since I do not know how to upload more than 1 pic per post, and I have 5 pics.
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