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Sound like things are falling into place for you. Nice score on single LS. While I am a huge fan of the Forte, the Khorns and LS are starting to point you in the direction of Heresies for the rear IMO. Are you committed to the Forte or can you scrap that pair? If so you can buy another pair of Fortes and try 3 in the back and see how you like it. If you don't you can probably sell the Forte pretty easily. For a little cheaper then a good Forte pair you can get one Academy and see what the rage is all about while putting that between the Fortes. Surely you can sell that for what you have in it if it is not to your liking. Decisions, Decisionsgood luck, Rich

Gary, that Blue Note album you gave me was incredible! I saved it along with the Tull until the wife got home so we could listen together (I tortured myself in private with that Springsteen commie)just kidding. Also, I was pleased to find the John Menincamp Scarecrow LP sounded great. Like Springsteen I am not a huge fan dont own a single disc by him, but the richness and texture was nice. I did dig out some of those others you mentioned and they all sound great. It appears that on vinyl even if you dont like the style of music the fact that the music sounds sooooo good goes a long way. Joe (Shload), my manners are terrible. I was so excited about my vinyl re-birth I forgot to mention how nice it was to meet you. Always cool to meet forum members. Even better when they are knowledgeable and nice. If you are ever in the northern MD area give me a yell you can teach me some more about Blue Note, MO FI, Jazz and we can take in a movie in my HT since yours is out of commission. Thanks to both of you for a fun and educational day, Rich

Here are two threads I found quickly (see below). Do some more searching around on things like Timber and Academy. Also look into Heritage and what people call extended heritage (not sure where that term comes from, but seems to be the de facto standard term) Basically there are families of speakers that have center channel speakers made for them family. Good example the Academy was made as a center for Chorus, Forte, and Quartet. If you have the ability, you do because of using a projector; it is ideal to have the three front speakers the same. Most people cant get 3 Fortes up front due to center placement and a TV. Next best is 3 speakers from the same family. Khorn, LS, B Heresy, Corn are the original Heritage. Chorus, Forte, Quartet, Academy are also heritage speakers but came out later and use different drivers and types of horns (Tratix???) I am not techno-speaker expert so someone please give us the exact differences and terms. Anyway, in a perfect world you keep to the same family of speakers. That said if it sounds good to you and you like it, screw what everybody else says or writes. Listen to what you like. Currently my Chorus is not the right center for my khorns, but I dont hear any issues as things pan across the front of the screen. Before the khorns fell into my lap I had been experimenting with various combinations of Chorus/Forte/Academy. I found the best for my tastes was NOT to use the Academies as centers in front and back, but as the surrounds. A totally killer 6.1 set up in my mind is Chorus/Forte/Chorus and Academy/Forte/Academy. If you dont believe me ask anyone who watched a movie with me and that set up. Another thought is that the fronts matching and the back matching but not matching each other will probably still be darn good. You could got Khorn/heresy/Khorn up front and Forte/Academy/Forte in the back. Based on my using a Forte as a center and my current Chorus between K/horns, I would also think you would be in good shape with Kh/F/Kh up front and 3 heresies in the back. Then you can sit back and wait for the perfect belle to throw in the front center some day down the road. If you were going to do that you would most likely have 2 pair of heresies to get your 3 so you could experiment with heresy and forte as centers for the khorns. Quick finds for more info on this subject. In this first one I think you will see that we both like the Forte. http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=63861 Start about ½ way down on this one look at Olorins stuff he is spot on with this topic. Also search for his other posts on this topic. http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=13840 The blue sconces you saw in my HT pix I got at Home Depot of all places. I was surprised I found something I liked in the lighting dept. there. They look better in person as the light does not come through the blue glass so much. That was due to slow shutter speed in my dark room.

Politics aside. I am just saying that for my first serious vinyl listen in over 20 years I liked what I heard. My only fear is that I now will spend every waking moment trying to find every LP in perfect condition ever known to man. Not like that is a bad thing, Rich

THB I am in Baltimore, where are you. I am partial to Belle. I have a totally mint pair of Heresy IIs in Oak. I am looking to get everyting in WO so if you are interested I will give you a good deal on them. You can try the Heresy in between the Khorns, which I think will be fine. As much as I LOVE fortes (had a pair since 92ish) I think you might be better scrapping them to 2 channel duty or selling them to finance the "right" setup. I would try to start with KH/H/KH H/H/H that would be a killer 6.1 setup with the goal to be belle or LS in the front center. Just my $0.02. AdKent. I am all for spending the money where it makes sense. But I just don't see 3X the value or any for that matter in Stewart. I got samples from Carada and Stewart and honestly did not take price into considration. I think the Carada was the winner. Again, my opinion. Just a bonus that it was cheaper...ant the guys at Carada are first rate with support, questions or just shooting the $hit. Good Luck to both of you, Rich

T,H,B. You find the LaScalas or Belles (I would like WO Belle actually) and we will split them for centers up front. Then use all Heresies in the rear. I am actually working on the mounting this weekend to put the 4 Heresies in the rear (Sounds like you could use 3) Which will turn my 6.1 into 7.1. I have the same projector as you and a Carada screen. I went with brilliant white after getting samples from Carada. I thought I would go gray, but there are no black issues in my mind with that projector and screen. The gray just did not do it for me. Good luck on the project.

Just got back from GaryMDs place. Everybody knows what a great guy Garry is, but worth repeating. Gary is a great guy. I picked up a piece of Sinatra memorabilia, but more importantly Gary lent me a turntable and a $hit load of LPs to see if I might rekindle an interest in vinyl. First out the gate was Immigrant Song by Led Zep. Seemed so much more Rich for lack of a vocabulary to describe it. Some pops and hisses but I need to figure out how to clean an album, as it really is a nice looking disc. I also bet my Sunfire/Khorn set up is a little more revealing then my Sharp Receiver and Techniques Turntable from the late 70s early 80s. While I really liked the sound I was not sure it was worth all the Effort CDs have made me so lazy. But then next song changed all that. Let me start by saying I am not a huge Bruce Springsteen fan, but I do give the Boss his due. I dont turn the station when he is onbut he has not gotten rich off of the solo purchase of Born To Run on CD. I have probably heard Hungry Heart 1000 times in my life, parties on vinyl, radio, CD, you name it. From the very first 5 seconds I knew this was different. Way different. It was amazing. I dont know how to describe it except to say I liked itno I loved it. Thanks, Gary

I have three pair of Heresies which ones you want I have a Sunfire Theater Grand IV that I am using for a preamp and surround processor. I could not be happier with it. Long time fan of Carver, but since Bob sold Carver (I think he bought it back) and started the Sunfire thing I think he is currently producing his best work.. Not a cheap piece of gear, but like my academy back in 1994 when I was truly poor, I saved my pennies to buy what I thought was the best to my ears. You probably are not interested, but in case you are. I have used an Academy as a center between Fortes for a long, long time and more recently between Choruses. F/A/F or C/A/C. Sounds great. If you are thinking of using a Heresy between Forte or Chorus and have heard it and like it great, enjoy, rock on. If you have not heard it drop ol Olorin a message or check the history on some of his posts because you might want to cross the Heresy off of your list. If you are looking to do something completely different with the H or A. Then Ill shut up now and mind my own business. Finally, I did not look at the auction nor did I realize the Academy had cake batter on it. I revise my valuebuck and a half tops :-D All the rest of them are worth their weight in gold. Hmmm, 40 some pounds at 300 or so an ouncemaybe I would consider getting rid of mine.

My $ 0.02 If I had an all black Chorus/Forte HT set up and wanted/needed a black Academy to finish it off. I would pay 750 to get it done over a FREE heresy to go between my C or F. Sure they were 400 new but they don't make them any more. 500 is more then fair these days and a 650-750 BIN is the perfect price to make you consider the cost benefit of not waiting a week and losing out. Don't say they are not worth 750 if you want your HT done right. 750 is peanuts when you consider all the other time, effort, energy and cost of the entire HT big picture. IMO you get the right set of speakers for your taste. Not the speakers that fit a certain dollar amount. That said if I had La Scala mains and heresy surrounds I would not take a free Academy over a 800 dollar pair of heresies. Do it once, do it right.

Very interested I need one more set of WO H-1s to complete my all WO Heritage home theater. Need to get rid of my perfect OO H-IIs and good shape HBR H-1s eventually if anyone is interested. Post the pix of these WO babies or email me, please. Thanks, Rich

Frzn is right on the mark I think. Other things to consider are finish (Black, Walnut, Oak, Birch, Exotic) Condition, and location. If they are close to you in great shape and a finish you like then they are worth a lot...my opinion. I picked up a pair of 87s in great but neglected shape. Very dusty few minor dings and light scratches. Looked a tad rough at first but cleaned up beautifully. They happened to be wanlut which is what I wanted and within an hour of my house. I paid just over 2K. I would not take 3K for them after investing about an hour to clean them up. Pix help

Thanks Max that was just the sort of info I was looking for. I'll kick these around and most likely continue to look. Thanks again, Rich

Max and the rest of you, These all seem like decent candidates based on my limited knowledge. The first one on audiogon is 300 bucks. The rest are auctions. Can you give me a range of prices for the others of what you think is fair and pros/cons of each set up? http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1117844921 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5764399806&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5764977536&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5765274098&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 I still owe GaryMD a call to see his thoughts as wellThanks again for all the input. Rich

I love Heresies, they were the first Klipsch speaker I ever heard. They do rock, and I agree with Os assessment of Bang! and BANG!. If it were just for music (Rock, Pop, Jazz) and space was the issue I would personally pick Heresy for space reasons. Having said that with a gun to my head and only able to pick one pair of speakers to take with me to a desert island, between Heresy and Forte I pick Forte. Between Forte and Chorus it is a coin toss. Forte is a tad more Heresy-like while Chorus is a bit more refined. Like them both equally for different reasons. YMMV it is very personal. Having both Chorus and Forte I think I might have to give the nod to Forte just because it is actually manageable to pick them up and move them as needed. Stairs and such are a challenge by yourself with Chorus. I have heard La Scalars and loved them in a dealers room. However, no a/b sort of comparison with a Chorus, so I cant help you there. If you subscribe to the bigger is better notion, then LSs are the choice. They are huge, effectively taking up more room then my Khorns. Do you have corners for Khorns? If so we can further complicate this discussion. LaScala/Heresy you can still buy new if you have the desire and $$$ Chorus/Forte/Academy you will need to squeeze the used market. All great speakers for the money. Heresy all around the back would be easy to wall mount or put on stands. Chours/Forte (and I have done it) as surrounds and back surrounds take up a lot of space even in a dedicated HT room. Given your TV restriction for center and assuming unlimited funds/availability I might be inclined to go with Chorus and Academies as you see fit (Chouri where they fit, Academies where space is an issue) if movies are your main goal. If you are more into multi-channel music then I think LaScalas with Heresy might edge them out. Rotel amps should power any Klipsch speaker just fine and sound quite nice. Finally I do have two black Academies. One is just about like it was the day it left the factory. The other is almost as nice, no dents/gouges all corners are perfect but slightly losing its black color in a few spots. Easy fix, do a search on the forums here. I paid 1800 for 3 of them (600 each) and UPS killed one, so now I have two. Since buying my Khorns, things changed and I have too many speakers. I just want back out of the Academies what I have in them. Would rather give them to forum member and avoid ebay non-payment-types. But I am in no hurry to get rid of them as they are paid for and once in a while I like to swap things around just to play. Let me know if you are interested. Currently they are in use and sound perfect. If I find an interested party that will just force me to swap out my 6.1 (A/C/A) set up in my signature for 7.1 with 4 Heresies (I have 3 pair currently) for surrounds and back surrounds. The eventual goal would be a belle in the centerbut I am done buying speakers for a whileyea right! I probably have given you more questions then answers. Take your time; listen to them all if you can find a person willing to let you. If in the Baltimore area give me a yell. Eventually you will find what works for you. All are great speakers.

Saw this late in the afternoon yesterday and did not have time to comment. I knew O would chime in about not using a Heresy between Choruses (Same goes for Forte, but you dont have them). Very good advice IMHO. For a long, long time I used an Academy between my Fortes and absolutely loved it. Then I got pair of chorus and was using Chours/Academy/Chours with the Fortes as surrounds. Very nice too. Eventually I landed some more Academies and until I found a local set of Khorns (very recently) I was running Chorus/Forte/Chorus up front with Academy/Forte/Academy in the rear I honestly did not think it could get any better then that. C/F/C up front was killer and the Academies as surrounds were space saving enough without any compromise. With all my speakers I never did put a heresy between them. Of your two options you list I would at least consider this. Chours/Chours/Chorus up front and 4 Academies in the rear. I think that would be smoking. Maybe you cant do this due to space below your TV up front (not to mention finding 4 academies I have two if you want them). Tell us more about your viewing source, rear projection TV, CRT, Plasma, etc. Have not done it so I cant really comment, but I would think La Scala mains with 5 Heresies (center and all surrounds) would be easier to land than an stable full of Academies and also sound great. As a general rule I think you would be best served with quartet, forte, chorus and academies as one option used as you see fit or La Scala, Heresy, Belle, Corns as another. I also agree you dont need two Academies up frontunless there is something I am missing like effects/presence speakers but for center channel I think you dont need them.

Thanks for the info so far. Glad to hear I am ok for the time being without a phono stage, but like CP1 says I am sure having one is better so always something else to shop for. Max, of the ones you mention Rega I have heard of. Not sure if that is good or bad, but somebody in the Rega marketing dept. is doing their job. I did a search on ebay and audiogon for Rega and found this. Is this at all a deal? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3283&item=5765507298&rd=1 sure is ugly and the wording of the auction is just plain silly. But for some reason it sticks out. Always nice to have some one off sort of thing...but why the heck would the guy go to all the trouble and then sell it. Makes me think it is not up to the task. I have no interest at the BIN price, but maybe if it stayed close to the opening bid...then again I would have to look at it.

Ok, I know even less then I thought I did. What is a phono stage? My Sunfire TGIV has a "Moving Magnet Phono input" does that get me anywhere? Quick google search shows me that if I want to improve my turn table I *MUST* have a phono stage (acording to the people selling them). So what gives, nice to have or have to have? Searching the forum for phono stage I see a few posts on what is good/not and what people like, but I am not gleaning the gist of the purpose.

As a side note...it is practical to buy someting like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=46503&item=4715957687&rd=1 Just to get a decent stash of LPs or are you asking for trouble by not seeing each album before you buy it? Thanks again, Rich

I hope this does not offend any vets, but being just a tad younger then that era, and still very aware of its repercussions growing up I always was very into Holliday Inn Cambodia by the Dead Kennedys. Surely not a song from the time of the war (1979 I think) but it does strike a nerve. For sure something you wont hear on mainstream radio. Others that come to mind: Ballad of the Green Beret Barry Saddler Fortunate son (probably to main stream) - CCR Signs - Five Man Electrical Band Black Is Black - Los Bravos Whiter Shade of Pale - Procol Harum Night They Drove Old Dixie Down - The Band War - Edwin Starr Where Have All the Flowers Gone - The Kingston Trio Incense and Peppermints - Strawberry Alarm Clock And I totally love This Is The End idea by The Doors

Ever since my trip to GaryMDs house I have been kicking around the idea of getting back into vinyl. I really have no clue in this department so be gentle. Last turn table I had was a techniques back in the early 80s. An all in one job bought at a big box store. I am guessing that the real vinyl heads buy separate parts and build the ultimate set up as they see fit. My current set up is a Sunfire Theater Grand IV and 3 carver TFM-25 amps used for a 6.1 HT set up. Obviously not tube gear. Down the road I would like to get a Scott or similar integrated tube amp for two channel listening, but that will have to wait until the fall probably. So what would be a decent middle of the road turn table that I can just plug in and start using? Given the hardware above and Khorns is this even practical? Will I not be happy unless I dive off the deep end and re-mortgage my house? How much should I expect to pay for what ever I needwhile you are at it please tell me what I need. My limited experience tells me arms are not necessarily part of the TT, that is, they can be swapped out. I also gather that in higher end stuff you dont get the needle (stylus, cartridge, etc. what is the proper term?) with the TT. A rough guess of my budget might be a few hundred dollars. Less if I dont really need to spend it, more if I absolutely must in order to not be pi$$ing away that amount on something that will not compliment the rest of my equipment. Final thought, should I focus on some tube gear for 2 channel BEFORE I tackle the turn table and vinyl issue? As usual, thanks a tonyou guys are the best. Rich

I looked at several brands and found premiere to be the best quality for the money. http://www.premierehts.com/ They surely are not cheap (not the most expensive either), but I only wanted to buy them once. Many styles and options, very sturdy and appear to have great build quality. I purchased the "Grand" because I wanted smaller width and lower backs. Bijou had a cool look, Marquee was a wonderful chair in every respect and the Majestic was nice too. I can't give you a long term update as I am still waiting out my 8 weeks to get them so take that to heart and look closely for yourself. My dealer had at least 4 different brands and I had look at other stores as well. I would guess I looked at 6-8 different brands before settling on these. Good Luck, Rich

Congrats, nice find...enjoy! If you decide you want a different finish give me a yell I have H IIs in oak and H Is in HBR. I need one more set of WOs to round out my Home Theater of Khorns, Chorus and 4 Heresies. Currently they are all WO except one pair of Heresy. BTW how was the traffic in the McLean/Tysons area. I worked in that area for a couple of years...what mess.

ifrag, if you are not interested let me know how they look/sound. I might make the trip down from Baltimore for a really nice pair.

Do you know the price and do you have a phone number for them? I am not close, but my parents live in the Detroit area...so maybe a trip is in order to get the B's to server as center between my Khorns. WO is the finish I need. Thanks for the heads up, Rich

If you are looking for simplicity in the pre/pro department look no further then the Sunfire Theater Grand IV. After using it for about three months now I still amazed by it's simple design, great sound and nice looks. As for the speakers I think Heresies would do you nicely. I have been experimenting with the rear portion of my 6.1 set up and started this weekend to squeeze in one more speaker for 7.1. I am currently running 2 Academies in the rear with a Chorus between them...but that is giving way to 4 heresies for surrounds. Academies are nice space-wise being long and skinny (relatively) compared to a heresy on it's side. You can mound them up high and angle them down to give you head room to walk under them if that is an issue. If you think you want to Academies give me a yell, maybe we can work something out.