BiggerIsBetter

Is your friends name Bob Carver? []

Not to debate the merits of interconnects, if you like the diamondbacks, check out the corals....great deal and I believe the cables are very similar. http://hcmaudio.com/hcm.asp I have order the Corals from them on a few occasion and was happy with the price, service, and product.

I will second the noicy, and gassy, problems with the Amperex line. I have tried jsut about all types of them (except the pinched waist) and had a hard time finding good ones. When I did find good ones, they did not sound all that great anyway. In addition, they typically got gassy in a very short period of use, still tested strong but emissions started and increased after use. This is related to 6dj8 and 6922. Not saying they are all bad, I would just recommend using a VERY reputable supplier, that has a return option. Overall, I found them to be more trouble than what they were worth. If you are working with Kevin Deal at upscale, try the russian rockets (6H23?) if they fit your application.

It is largely a redundant devise that adds coloration and distoration for swtiching and matching convience. Still, most people still need and use them.....

You can swap the polarity on hte mids, but don't expect a huge difference (a few dB in the xover region). Your results may vary as I tried it with a B-2 xover and corn 1 drivers.

OK, last night I completed the definitive test and the new tweets are better! I listened to several Led Zeppelin albums On Vinyl Original releases Through a tube phono pre Passive Into tube amps At good loud levels and the Swedish bikini team was polishing my speakers the entire time while I was drinking my favorite beer and sipping a shot of my favorite tequilla And it sounded better than ever. I think this is final proof that they are better. I hope this puts an end to this pointless bickering and allowances for personal opinions. It doesn't get any more scientific than this. Everything above is sarcastic and intended for humor.....[]

SO, how about back to the sound of the new tweeter to help those on the fence? Given my great wisdom of 2 whole days with these things, I will add my .02. From looking at the response charts, I was expecting something that was "brilliant" that would immediately sound "stunning" but would take some time to determine whether it was better or just more. That's not at all what I got. When I changed out the first tweet it actually sounded a tad flat and dull in comparison to the other side (and what I was used to). I checked all the hook ups just to be sure I had not messed up. Then I took a few minutes and listened to the same tracks back-to-back on each side, spare me the one channel comparison caveats it the best I could do.... The new tweet did seem lower in level, but it did not have the rough edges of the old (1981ish, K-77-M) tweet. On the old, the high notes had an edge/blur (sibilance on female vocals) that was simply not there on the new. There was also more there on the extension side. The best example was the jazz station that I listen to a lot (95.5 KYOT <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Phoenix). The station promo spot, "desert nights smoooooooth jazz..." has some background sounds while the low male voice is talking. I have heard this a hundred times at least. On the old tweets I could tell that there was a cricket in that "noise". With the new tweets, there is a whole outdoor symphony going on. I was enveloped by sound that was barely there/discernable with the old. I did some very quick measurements and was a bit surprised. The new tweets are down in level a LOT, more than I thought, compared to the old....like 3-5dB. I plan to reverse polarity on the mids, but I doubt that will make a difference. I also tried various music (rock, jazz, the classical) at high levels. The new tweet certain keep their composure much better. Those rough edged on the old really come out at high levels. A sound I have heard attributed to the lower order filters (1 am using a first order simple . So, what I got was a lower level output tweet that sounds more detailed, clear, and extended....better in every regard. I agree with a comment above that some level matching devise should be available when messing with tweeters. I expect that issues with the "sound" of this tweet have more to do with how the HF levels are effected by the new tweet and not the inherent sound. I know it's called a "drop in" replacement. But, like most other mods, unless you are willing to play around you will not likely get the "best" out of the changes. You may get "better", but not the optimal.

I may have missed the boat a bit on the k600 to K401 replacement. It was certainly the hardest to judge since the difference is not measurable (i.e. the 401 is not louder as many may suspect) and there was the longest period of time between hearing the before and after. To further cloud the picture, I listened to another set of speaker in the interim. Though I thought of moving it to a higher priority, I was looking at overall bang for the buck. While the horns were a near swap (if I sold the 600s that is), there was 15-20 hours of work involved and it was a PITA and largely irreverible. I would like to hear the before and after side by side, but I expect that many may be overstating the improvement and the "cost" side is certainly high. The best improvement I see, is the looks and easier access to the crossover (I moved mine outboard with the change).

There is no way everyone is going to agree, there are a lot of different combinations of 77s (including condition), rooms, sources, and tastes. I dropped mine in last night. I think I have made about every mod possible to the corns and in my situation the new tweets are hands down the best overall improvement. My 77s dropped like a brick at 12k and sounded unclear at what they did produce....worst 1 octave driver I have heard. Again, this is the 77s I personally have. I would rate the changes I have made to the corns, highest return to lowest, as follows: 1. B&K tweeter 2. Band pass squaker (only tried it with the 401 horn) - evaluated separately from the new tweeter 3. New caps (garden variety MPP) in xover 4. K401 horn in place of K600 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Start changes that I could not really hear the difference, but I feel "better" that they are new.... 5. New inductors (super Q erse) in LP of crossover 6. New AT Your mileage may vary.....FWIW

sorry don't have much time to read this week.....

Until you gets some measurements, everyone is just guessing. If you response up top is nearly flat, changes like components are likely the right direction. If you have a serious bump or dip, a component change is NOT going to correct it you will need placement or EQ or crossover changes. Cornwall's can have flat response and sound very balanced.

Thanks for the input. Here's a place to get the 103R for $250 http://www.audiocubes.com/product/Denon_DL-103R_Moving_Coil_Cartridge.html I would rather spend and extra hundred or 2 to get it right from the start.

In order to determine whether the "harshness" is real or perceived, take some measurements. If your response is relatively flat on top, then it is either you tastes, sources (i.e. music or quality of components) and/or pre/amp. If not (i.e. significant measureable peaks) then you have room and/or driver anomalies to deal with. If I had corns that were "bright" and measured hot on top, I would optimized room position as best as I could first (even try less toe in, that's a quick way of knocking down the top end) and then consider xover or EQ. For quick easy measurements just get an Radio Shack (analog prefered) dB meter (I'm sure there are other options) and a test CD with test tone. In all my years of messing (since I really don't know what I am doing) around, there is one thing that I am sure of....flatter (frequency responce that is) is better... It does not guarantee great sound, but in my opinion with a given set of drivers, they will sound better when the responce is generally flatter. I'm sure someone will have an exception to that rule or otherwise discount it....

DMan, If you think silver will help the situation, I have a pair of 6" pure silver speaker cables and interconnects (1M RCA) that are not in use. The speaker cables are solid conductor braided conductors with bi wire termination on the speaker side. If you want to try them out send me your shipping info..better to know they are in use than sitting in my closet. Just send them back when you are done, I personnaly don't think you will like the change. In the rare event you do like them, you can have them real cheap....like $100 range... Jim

Max, I didn't even understand most of it, and you talked me out of it. The only questiona I had are very simple minded one. Do you think the Denon 103 would be a good match for a VPI Scout (JMW-9 arm of course)? I have also seen the Denon 103R (for $250), any thoughts on whether it is a worth while improvement, assuming a 103 is availble for around $140? Sorry for the rookie question, but I need to start somewhere. I am making the leap from a Project 1.2 table, grado gold. My phono pre is a bottlehead seduction. I am using a passive pre. and plan to integrate Lundahl transformers into the phono pre to give me the additional step up. I have 40db with the stock seductions and up to 30 more with the transformers. Any recommendations, esspecially cartridges, greatly appreciated.

Guitly as charged, maybe the Klipsch gods don't want that thread to be found... http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/660358/ShowPost.aspx

I also have the K51 in my '81 Corns. Since there is not much info, I'll add my .02. In my room (always the caviot I start with), the K51 is very flat (and sounds great IMO) up to around 4K. There is a fair dip around 4.5K and a huge 8-10 dB bump from 5-6K, where it signs off. I mistakenly assumes that it was the K77 accounting for the 5-6K bump, since I saw the K51 signing off around 4.5K, until I tested the drivers separately. When I did the 5-6K bump was all the K51. This is with a simple type B. As such I am looking forward to adding the .51 mH inductor as a bandpass. I expect that this will about level of the K51 out to 6K. Bob's new tweet will pick up from there, I have all value caps from 2-4 and I will "back down" the K77 until is gives a flat transition from the K51. It also seems, can't be sure as I was making lot of changes and not focusing on the mids, that the 5-6K bump in the mid got worse when I went from the K-600 to K-401 horn. I have no idea whether this type of response is typical from a K51 (give my sample size of 2 and no free field measurements), just some info FWIW

I think the key element is to build in flexibility to change horns and drivers. Else you could go to a lot of trouble to build new cabinets only to realize (or be told) that you horns and/or drivers "suck" and that there is a newer and better options. I have cornscalas and love them....though I modified a set of corns to get there as I could not justify building a new cabinet for that set of drivers.

I think it is mixing apples and oranges a bit when coming 4500 to 6000 between a ESN and a first order. I agree that with a 1st order all the crossover point are ish anyway, the changes in question are just a few dB here and there on a 1st order and I expect there are driver and room variation great than the changes being discussed for a first order.

If your cheap (like me) and only have 1 source, try out a Super T amp ($140 from part express). I just got mine a week ago and am still playing with it. Initial impressions are very possitive.....compared to my mega buck AR monoblocks. You only get 7 or so good watts, but I have been well into the 108db range..though not enough time at that level to evaluate the sound quality up there. Summary of the T-amp is smooooth, clear, and detailed from top to bottom....similar to what you would hope for in a tube pre and SS amp combo.

What, the K401 horn does not "fit' in a cornwall. Sure it does, just depends on your definition of fit and whether your willing to "customize" a bit [] http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/660358/ShowPost.aspx The best part is the looks, the 601 horn just looks wrong in the big cornwall cabinets. And I would do it again.....

As a related questino, how often do you clean your recorded? Asuming good sleeves and covers are being used in a fairly clean environment, do you base it on time, number of plays, etc., etc.... I am assuming that since there is friction involved with cleaning some wear is occuring and that some sort of tradeoff is involved with how often to clean. I use a nitty gritty, you certianly need to be be careful on where and how you apply pressure....it is wobbly

No, there is no going back. Get a good sub, fresh x-overs, set them up correctly and enjoy.

While I love my cornwalls, before and after lots of mods, I would certainly not use the K601 horn if I was going to all the trouble of building them from scratch....i.e. wedge a K401 in there or better yet a Klapperhorn

Hopfully he's assembling those puppies, so leave him alone []