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Paladin

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  1. Very interesting point. That makes a lot of sense, since the way I understand it the original purpose of the Heresy was as a center speaker in a three speaker array with Klipschorns that were placed too far apart in their requisite corners to properly generate a center image -- to fill the hole so to speak. The pictures I've seen of such a vintage setup show the Heresy placed between the two K-Horns on the floor and generally up against the wall. I mean it seems to me that any stereo Heresy configuration really isn't original to the purpose of the speaker. But then again the H-III was re-vamped with stereo use in mind... Also what you're saying about the low mids and upper bass seems to be the area where I'm having issues with the sound of these speakers. But I'm also fighting a live room with a high ceiling and a horrible buzz echo that I need to dampen with something. I think this is exacerbating some of the mid-band "smearing" in the room that I'm experienceing. When I dial the volume way back the sound cleans up considerably. I'm generally listening at about half to 2/3rd's the volume (absolute SPL, not dial position) I used to with the RB-81's (which isn't necessarily bad since the H-III's sound pretty sweet at lower volume, there's just not so much "grip" or "punch" for certain types of music unless you can "rev" it up some). Of course there's always the issue of good vs. bad recordings. The Heresy as well as pretty much any Klipsch speaker or any extremely high efficiency speakers in general are very revealing of recordings. I read a review of the H-III where the reviewer called it a "garbage in, garbage out" speaker which I agree with; if the recording is crap the H-III's will tell you so. And I have found some recordings sound much better than others, speaker placement having less of an effect on these recordings than the poorer ones; this was true of the RB-81's and is the same with the H-III's.
  2. Thanks for the feedback on this... For the record I don't dislike the Heresys on the floor with their riser in place as designed. In fact I think they sound pretty darned good down there much opposed to my assumptions that they wouldn't. In fact I remember when I worked for Klipsch back in '06 when these speakers were relaunched I did hear them in the engineering listening area (along with LS-II and CW-III), the H-III were placed on the floor and I was pretty blown away by how good they sounded that way. In any case, far be it for me to question how the esteemed Mr. Klipsch designed the original Heresy speaker (I'm not) but to my ears they sound better up off the floor a bit when used as 2-channel main speakers, especially when you add subwoofers to the equation. Seeing as how Mr. Klipsch was accused of committing Heresy in designing the Heresy speaker and from which story the speaker takes its name, if it amounts to heresy to place a pair of Heresy on stands then so be it and in fact I kind of like that idea. That said, I've been playing around with placement a lot with these speakers. They sound quite a bit different every which way I've tried, floor, 10" up, 18" up with angled riser, 30" up no riser as I mentioned in my original post. After playing around I think once they're raised off the floor enough the tilt back the riser gives them is unnecessary. I think if you go 18" or higher they sound better level rather than tilted back, and considering raising them up a few inches some makes them about as high as a Cornwall which has no tilt-back -- this makes sense. However they don't sound bad raised and tilted back, it's just a weird sound space, a little less directional and some tracks I am very familiar with sounded strange or different. Not bad but not my final positioning choice. I can totally agree with the suggestions of 16",18", 20" or so being good heights. The imaging and soundstage do improve, at the cost of bass extension of course. However at this point we're treating the H-III as a super-sized bookshelf speaker rather than a floorstander. And that's what I'm essentially replacing. I was running RB-81's as my main 2ch stereo speakers so my H-III's are filling those shoes. I had demoed some H-III's in my system some time ago so I knew I wanted these as an upgrade to the RB-81's (as opposed to say, the P-17B although given the chance I would love to put those head to head with the H-III's in my system) but I was never sure about placement demands.They are definitely more detailed and analytical than the Reference sound that's for sure. Right now I put them back level on the 30" stands I have but I moved them about a foot back toward the rear wall. They are level on the stands. Also I am using subwoofers as I originally explained so I have plenty of bass down into the low 30's crossed over at around 60 hz (H-III are spec'd down to 58hz +/- 3db). One of my problems was that I found one of the amps on one of my subs was going bad, so I ordered, received, and installed a replacement from Klipsch. Now that both subs are functioning properly the system sounds a lot better. Also placing them further back towards the back wall seemed to help for some reason (and it helps the multi-channel mode by getting them closer to the TV panel).Someone once mentioned to me about the 3-way Heritage stuff that being a little further away wasn't necessarily a bad thing as it gives the sound from mid and high horns a chance to fully "meld together". Not sure how true that is but I do like being a bit further away. I think it helps the big 12" woofer meld with the subwoofer better too. Another aspect to this whole exercise is I think since the speakers are brand new they are still breaking in a bit. I have noticed that the midrange is firming up over time, at first it was a little "smeared" for lack of a better term (this is as opposed to the H-III pair which were thoroughly broken in that I previously demoed a few years back) but it has cleaned up. Since I'm sort of happy with them on the 30" stands for now I think I'd like to try 20" stands as a comparison. It definately matters where the horns are in comparison to the ears. I'm not sure I want them as low as 16 or less if only for the multi-channel set up. But that's really a compromise in my set up. If this were a pure 2ch only set up I wouldn't care where they were as long as I liked it the best. I've also heard a lot about the Forte, I've never heard a pair of them but would love to some time. Any more suggestions or comments, I would love to hear. I know there are lots of you guys out there running Heresy's... Part of the fun is just tweaking around anyway right? I will say no matter where I put them I like them. That an the three channel L/C/R array of Heresy's for my home theatre is really killer it sounds absolutely amazing. For my money there is no better brand/type of speaker on the market for home theatre than Klipsch.
  3. I took some pictures of my H-III's with the "B-Stock Cherry Finish" FWIW. I don't know if the RF-7 II's are any different but they're probably close. Click the links below to see the pictures (ignore the stupid table things they're sitting on for now...LOL). http://www.paladinet.com/hostpics/H3-1.jpg http://www.paladinet.com/hostpics/H3-2.jpg The pictures were taken with my iPhone with bright ambient sunlight from open windows. The finish looks a bit darker when lit by only interior lighting. The takeaway is this B-Stock Cherry finish floating around out there is most definitely darker than A-Stock.
  4. I'd like to get some opinions/suggestions on the setup of the Heresy specifically the H-III and if any of you use or recommend any type of stand for this speaker. Mine are set up for both pure 2ch (with or without subs) and to be patched in to a surround system (where with a third H-III they become a matched L/C/R front array for the multi-channel system). In 2 channel mode I am running a direct input of lossless digital audio files from a computer USB DAC into a Supratek Chenin tube pre-amp and an Aragon 4004 Mk-II Stereo Amp. This is to be my "reference" 2ch system (maybe I should call it "heritage" now[8-|]). I am using two outboard subwoofers with the Heresy's which are being directly fed from the second pre-outs of the Supratek as L/R stereo subs. In other words they're not being fed from the surround system or some LFE channel somewhere. Therefore lower bass is not too much of an issue as I can dial the subs in to the room and their respective speaker channel pretty effectively. What I'm trying to accomplish is to get the best soundstage and holographic imagining out of the Heresy's in 2ch mode, and have them also be reasonably set up for surround mode otherwise (but 2ch mode setup and positioning is more important to me). Obviously Klipsch seems to like the H-III's on the floor with the slant riser tilting them back. Which is fine, it provides bass extension that way but they tend to sound boomy and/or boxy down there (depending on the playback material) to me. Although the sound is altogether warmer. Also being on the floor isn't bad for the multi-channel surround system but it would sound better if the speakers were higher up and closer to the panel TV. I tried placing the H-III's on the 30" stands that previously held my RB-81's.This wasn't altogether bad, but not great either. The horns were well above ear level and all the bass dried up. This left the speakers sounding very dry and analytical but with a pretty decent soundstage. Although they could get pretty aggressive in the mid band, especially from the middle horn on such high stands. Also there was no tilt back, the speakers were level. Neither of these options really works for me. For now I've placed the H-III's on two small wooden table things that hold them up 18" off the ground, but with the slant riser still in place so the speakers are tilted back. This seems to work the best for now. The tweeter horn is roughly at ear level. I'm getting good imaging and soundfield with a warmer sound like when on the floor rather than the dry sound from up high and perfectly level. I think I like the sound with them tilted-back more than not. I will say that placing them on any type of stand seems to remove any boxy sound (to me) they have when on the floor. I am also slightly toeing the speakers in, probably getting the 60-degree triangle between the two speakers and listening position. However my room is only effectively 14' wide by 17' deep with the speakers on the 14' wall out 3'. It's also a pretty live room (which I need to deal with acoustical treatments), unfortunately. At volume the H-III's can easily overplay the room so I don't usually go super loud and sometimes sit a little closer to compensate. So... Anyone out there have an opinion on this? If I use stands, Is there a stand height that anyone would strongly recommend?
  5. I actually just bought 2 pair of the B-Stock Heresy-III's in this off-spec Cherry from the same guy. He is a Klipsch Authorized Online dealer (Acoustic Sound Design) because I checked and called him just to make sure before I made the deal. These were brand new, sequential serial numbered Heresy's, the only B-Stock thing about them is the finish, and that is what the guy told me over the phone. In terms of look and color they are much darker than the normal cherry Heritage color (same color as used on the cherry wood veneer ref speakers). I have seen LS-II and H-III in the "proper" cherry stain and it was a lighter, more vintage redish-gold color. My Heresy's are a reddish amber brown color. They still look (and sound) really beautiful nonetheless, if you don't mind the darker color (which I don't). Plus I got a good deal on factory-fresh brand new-in-box H-III's under warranty. I can take pictures if anyone is interested in seeing the finish.
  6. Belated Congratulations Amy! Just stumbled upon this thread...but then again I don't frequent the forums as much as I once did. In any case everything quoted from Jill and what Trey said in the initial post are very true. For my part I can say that Amy was a great person to work with while I was with Klipsch. Indeed a well deserved "upgrade"! Have a Happy New Year as the new Web Marketing Manager Amy!
  7. Mike, I doubt I will make it over to Klipsch HQ on Friday because, well, I'll be at work. However if Roger is having everyone over at his place again that evening I will probably make that. Saturday I will be available to help set up and hang out, as early as necessary, but I will likely abscond in the early afternoon (1-2ish) to prepare for and attend my High School reunion that afternoon at 5p. Sunday I will hopefully be able to come by your place to hang out with everyone. Looking forward to seeing all of you again!
  8. Yup...my Dad works at RR - Old Allison Plant 5, it and Plant 8 are off Raymond Street. Convieniently you can get on and off 456 using the old Airport Expressway there on the west side (it "turns into" Raymond). Be aware, the west side of 465 has some pretty major construction going on between 67 and 56th Street, but going from the RR Plants to either Klipsch Headquarters or Colter's place (is there a difference in that nomenclature [^o)]) is probably only a 20-30 minute proposition. Mike's right though, you can get most anywhere in Indy within 45min using 465.
  9. Not another bow out...but FWIW, I have a High School reunion on the Saturday of this shindig around 5pm so I can partake Friday and Sunday and possibly Saturday morning but will likely go to the reunion on Saturday night and miss the concert that night...
  10. Pretty freakin' great actually []... If I lived somewhere where I couldn't use a full blown stereo system, the combination I described above would be the definite fallback position... The analogy of it being like having 10-large worth of stereo equipment attached to your head was rather apt...
  11. I too had a pretty awesome experience with my C3's just last night. Typically I use my C3's at work, but unfortunately I only have the mini line out on my laptop to connect too, and the sound quality of the OEM sound card is really pretty atrocious. Anyway I was reading some literature on my old Aragon 18k preamp that suggested that the pre out was capable of running headphones without any further amplification necessary. So I piped the USB DAC off my main 2CH system's audio server into the 18k and ran the C3's straight off the pre outs. Pretty gosh darn incredible... I mean I knew the C3's were good, but giving them a nice upstream component line just was awesome. So I think I'm gonna have to pick up a reasonable USB DAC and take it into the office along with my Aragon 18k []...which BTW if you have an old Aragon Pre lying about, I can attest to the fact that it does make a good headphone amp (albeit a big one!). FYI: If you try this (hooking headphones to an pre line out) you'll need an RCA Y-Splitter that has a mini-stereo jack, essentially a patch cable for hooking up something like an iPod to a reciever. Second you'll need to find a "male to male" mini jack extender, so you can plug the headphones into the Y-Splitter (unless you can find a Y-Splitter that has a mini female end rather than the male end). Make sure you know what you're doing though! Plugging something like this up to a line-level output that has no gain control could blow out any pair of headphones or be far too loud and hurt your ears. Make sure you can attenuate the volume of whatever line out you're playing with.
  12. I can testify to the quality of Acurus HT amps as well. I have a 200FIVE (aka A200x5), which I'm running with a monster Sunfire TGP-5. Right now I'm using it with a pair of ICON WF-35's, an ICON WC-24 center, and a pair of Reference RS-62's as rear surrounds. I would also like to find an A200x2 so I could run the side channels of the TGP-5 using the balance of my ICON gear the WS-24's, with the same sound signature at some point. In any case my particular 200FIVE was originally a part of my father's surround system which was used continuously for about 3 years (the amp was constantly on as to even watch TV you needed the surround system to be on as well). I know he also aquired it in a dealer liquidation auction when KGI discontinued the Acurus brand after the aquisition.
  13. Whoa...that's pretty intense. I'd like to see the military hardware that guy has. Anyway, count me in if some kind of speaker party materializes...sounds like a lot of fun.
  14. Yup the economy and the collateral dammage is awesome. Well hopefully things will pep-up so that there will be a pilgrimage in '09 this last one was a lot of fun... That and I don't want to think about the effect of it staying this bad (or getting worse) for much longer..
  15. My Dad and I have contemplated going to the RMAF... Mostly because my Dad is friends with Thom Mackris of Galibier Turntables; Thom lives out in Colarado and talks about how much fun that shows is, he was likely there demoing with his TT's. Anyway I'm sure it was a heck of an experience...even if the stuff is priced half way to the moon it's still fun to see and hear. And jdm56 makes an astute observation, in that the heritage product is indeed a great value for the money! Don't forget you can buy that stuff on the website now.
  16. That's exactly what my L-710's look like, except smaller of course. And two 6" drivers instead of 8". Mine also need to be refinished there are a few scratches on them, and I think someone used mine on a dirty hard floor because the bottoms are really badly scratched up. They look good though. My mid and tweet domes are somewhat sticky, "tacky" is a better word, if you touch them and look like silk. The tops of them (the high sides) are covered with dust and grit that I cannot remove. As I said I suspect these were used in a dirty environment (maybe an unfinished basement or something). I'm pretty sure it may be affecting sound quality.
  17. That's interesting that you have (or had) some ADS speakers Picky. My 710's were picked up second hand. However they have the (apparently) desireable buff-colored metal grilles (finish is walnut) as well as the original Braun 6" woofers with the rubber surrounds. I've had some other people tell me they lusted after this or the 810 you mentioned back in the day. I haven't totally decided if I'm going to keep them or sell them... Anyway...after thinking about this thread I remembered I took some pics of the H-III's while I had them. It might help to see them in an actual room, as while "compact" they aren't small. However you can see the beautiful cherry lacquer finish on them. Click the links below to view...all images are 800x600px. http://paladinet.com/hostpics/H-III-Boxes.jpg (87K) Those are the boxes they come in, I thought the PWK logo which wrapped around the side of the box, but also could be made by putting two boxes together was rather cool. These were apparently an early set which were initially sent to Mr. Kauffman, who was quite influential in the re-design of the H-III as I do believe. http://paladinet.com/hostpics/H-III-Room.jpg (70K) This shows the H-III's sitting in my living room, note I didn't play them spaced that far apart, that's just what I did after un-boxing...I moved the 81's out of the way (or replaced them with the H-III's on those stands). http://paladinet.com/hostpics/H-III-and-RB-81-Front.jpg (85K) Here's a front-on of the H-III and my RB-81 on a stand...note the classic Aragon equipment lurking just to the right... http://paladinet.com/hostpics/H-III-and-RB-81-Side.jpg (85K) This shows the side of the H-III and RB-81. Note the book matching of the veneer on the H-III (well...I think, either that or it was a really nice single piece of veneer on the side there), I also popped the grille off for this shot (they're magnetically attached now just like Ref, Icon, and Palladium). Oh and by the way, I actually didn't borrow these speakers from Klipsch. Rather they were on loan from the "House of Klipsch" collection []. Props to Mr. Colter for that. Also, for the curious...the large floorstanders hanging out in the corners are vintage ESS AMT-3 Heil Rock Monitors...I was using those as mains for my surround system until I got the wood...er an Icon Wood system [] There are two systems in that room. The 81's are used for 2ch only.
  18. Hi...moved this to 2-Channel where you'll likely get quite a few opinions on this speaker (or the previous Heresy versions in general). Even I can comment. I had an opportunity about a year ago to audition a pair of H-III's at home. I'm currently running RB-81's and was at that time so that's what I compared them to. I am also using a pair of RW-8 subwoofers to pick up the bottom end roll off, however I listened to both pairs of speakers with and without the subs. What I can say is that the audible differences between the speakers was mostly nuanced, as they're both really very good. The H-III is of course more sensitive at 99dB 1w/1m which is 3dB louder than the RB-81. At either sensitivity I think you'd be fine with your low wattage amp...but more so with the H-III. At 1/8th of a watt you'd be somewhere around 90dB at 1m and with 4 watts you'd be running something like 105dB which is pretty stupid loud. One of the more curious tests I did was floor vs. stand placement of the H-III. The RB-81 of course really doesn't go on the floor it's supposed to be on a stand, bookshelf, or even wall mounted (you can do all that with an H-III too). However the H-III was interesting both on the floor with it's tilted-back riser and on a 30" stand. On the floor the bass response was enhanced and the midrange seemed warmer. On the stands the bass dried up a bit but on the whole everything sounded a tad more neutral...more analytical I suppose. While on the floor the H-III's imaged quite nicely, the soundstage (to me) floated above and in front of the speakers. Not at all what you'd expect with a speaker that small sitting on the floor. That said, I think both of these qualities improved immensely (to me) by stand placement. I got a more air...more depth in the soundfield to my ears on the stands. As for brightness...well that's a subjective matter. Prior to my RB-81's I was running an old pair of ADS L-710's (which are 3-way dome-n-cone speakers) and I also have a lot of experience listening to electrostats as my dad is a fan of that type of speaker and has a huge pair of SoundLabs. When I started listening to Klipsch speakers it was like "There's the top-end I was missing!" I said earlier "analytical", I think the horn sound, well the Klipsch horn sound anyway is very accurate and detailed all through the mid and top frequencies. Of course I find this preferential, others might not. I will say that percussion, especially piano, sound excellent on horns. And...yes the bass is a bit dry (on both speakers here) but the bass they do have is tight and musical. If you are trying to go with a full-range 2-ch solution I would higly recommend patching in a pair of subs...which as I mentioned is how I use my RB-81's. Also, from a purely superficial standpoint, but I like the classic look of the Heresey. The real-wood veneer and classic black-weave grille I think look really good. I also like how it looks on the floor with the arch cut-out in the riser (even though if I had a pair I'd go with stands) The only reason I don't have a pair of H-III's is because the RB-81 is so close and I'm saving up for something bigger in the Heritage line to upgrade to [].
  19. ...Exactly... In my house huge floorstanders aren't necessary. I'm using bookshelves and a pair of small subs. If I had a large dedicated listening room things might be different. For example if I were to put my Father's SoundLab M-1's in my 17x14 living room, besides not having room for much else, (M1 panels are 3 feet wide and 7 feet tall), they would overplay the room badly. They work fine in his 15x30 listening room however. BTW: Amy's right. You really need to see the Palladiums if the pictures aren't doing it for you. They're really quite beautiful. What's more fun is to hear them... I personally don't care what it looks like if it sounds good...but then WAF currently isn't an issue for me.
  20. It's Ben Franklin...there are different versions he's attributed to have said/wrote but the one that seems to be the most common is this one: "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." Always eloquent, short, and to the point, Mr. Franklin was.
  21. Yup it's buggered, especially in FireFox. By saying that I'm also telling you I don't know how to fix it yet [] There's a helpful new tab on the posting screen called "Smilies Library" that you can use to copy and paste the BBCode for the Smilies (it's a viewer not a picker). I made it for one of the editors that doesn't have a smilies picker, but since the picker is screwey on the normal editor...there's the interem solution...
  22. Jay, I understand now. I would deal with the inconvienent size of the RF-83's untill you get done with college and have plenty o' room in a house or apartment. I think you'll kick yourself later if you do. I think Mike's got the ticket, once you move to a larger residence you can always upgrade to something bigger in the Heritage line that wouldn't begin to fit in your dorm now. Especially considering the turn around you would make selling 83's, or if money is tight well...you've already got the 83's anyway. I thought you had these in an extra bedroom with a computer or something...like some kind of monster secondary system...LOL. ...still having '83's in a college dorm is pretty hardcore! How often do you get requests to rock the halls on the weekends? []
  23. I believe the RB-81 and the RF-82 share the same horn and horn driver. However the Horn is crossed 200hz lower in the RB-81 than the RF-82. The RF-83 is unique in it's configuration. I don't think you're going to find the same components of RF-83 in a smaller or different box. In theory a sub and a pair of 81's ought to be a pretty respectable compact solution in place of a pair of RF-83's...like DrWho suggests. I think an audition would be required though to make a hard decision, if possible. Maybe I missed it...but you have a pair of RF-83's set up next to a desk or something? That's pretty hardcore []
  24. I tend to agree with the good Doctor here. I own RB-81's as my main system speakers and I had the opportunity to borrow Heresy-III's for a period to compare them in my particular system (Thanks Mr. Colter!). I run the system with a pair of RW-8 subwoofers to pick up below ~50hz to whatever the RW-8 bottoms out to (something like 32hz). Now my living room is 14x17 and I found that indeed the Heresy needed a good distance to "gel" as I found myself more comfortable with the soundstage by sitting farther away from them (well the effect was achieved by moving my stands back towards the back wall). By comparison my RB-81's stand further out into the room. If you're talking about putting these very close to you on a desk or something, I would go with a Reference bookshelf over the Heresy. You might even look at the older RSX or new ICON series stuff too, it's more compact for the desktop. That and I speak from experience as you'd have a seriously hard time prying the RSX-5's I use with my computer rig out of my cold dead hands, (subwoofer required though, IMO of course). Now someone might ask which did I prefer the 81's or the H-III's in my main system? Well there wasn't anything like a hands down winner, but I did prefer the H-III. Mostly for various nuanced reasons, not for any major shining victory in some department over the 81's. Sometimes I just couldn't pick one or the other. So they're pretty close IMHO. I did prefer the H-III's on stands not on the floor. While they did sound good and imaged better than I would have suspected on the floor (I had the risers) they really sparkled on stands. With the subwoofers I didn't have to worry too much about loosing the bottom end you pick up by floorstanding them, although it did dry the midrange a little. However I really like the sound of monitors on stands out in a room, so I may be biased. Also the H-III gets a few brownie points for being a very attractive looking, all wood speaker with the retro heavy black grille cloth. I like the retro look. Not that the 81's don't look cool with the copper cones with the grilles off too... However I did think, and I could be totally wrong (remember I'm just a humble web developer not a Klipsch engineer so I don't know anything just because I work here) that the RB-81 and H-III had a similar voicing. Which I guess isn't terribly suprising; Klipsch should sound like Klipsch.
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