lighting guy

Thanks guys, for your responses. FWIW, I wrote to George Wright about what I'd experienced and he said the gain on the two amps is the same. He posited that the diffence in volume is in the tubes themselves. The 300B requires more drive, some Chinese makes are more sensitive and play louder (for a while). The WE 300Bs must need more gain. Craig, I NEVER would've tried this direct method with your amps! I only did this with the SET amps b/c very early on someone loaned me a pair of Wright 3.5s with a set of attenuators to audition on my Khorns. I figured with the lower sensitivity of the Cornwalls I couldn't be too far off trying this direct method. I like to shake things up sometimes, that's part of the fun of this hobby. Invalid test or not, I learned something. Darrell

I 've had the good fortune of playing around a bit with Klipsch heritage speakers and tube amps and stumbled into some interesting observations that dispel some of my long-held views on amplification. But first, some back story.... I have a Khorn based stereo system and have been running some different tube amps on it for a couple of years now, with a Blueberry Extreme preamp, with very pleasing results. For amps, I have VRDs, Wright single ended Mono 3.5s and Mono 7s (direct heated 300Bs). Each amp pairing has yielded nice results. I listen mostly to rock/pop and jazz and each amp pairing has its strength and weakness. The VRDs give by far the biggest sound and the SET amps have more relaxed and detailed presentations. A couple of months ago I bought a pair of '78 Cornwalls and refreshed the crossovers with Sonicaps. I put them in my new (and still under construction) man cave, a 19x12 room that I've treated with sound deading materials and am using as a second room for more private listening purposes. At first I installed the BBX and VRDs on the Corns and was ROCKING, mainly using a Marantz 8260 as a source and using CDs. Nice BIG sound! Then I wondered what would happen if I ran the Wright 3.5s direct from the CDP into the speakers, "mainlining" the SET amps with no preamp or attenuation, someting similar to my first experience on my Khorn-based stereo setup in my main listening area. A glorious, pure SET sound poured out, full of tone, detail and image; not as commanding as with the push-pull amps, but sweet all the same. Some CDs were right in the pocket as far as volume, but some were too loud. I listened to this configuration for a couple of weeks, carefully picking out CDs to play, based on their output volume and general sound quality. Tonight I switched out the 2a3 based amps for the 300Bs, a little hesitant with an expectation that the volume and bass output would be too strong without any attenuation from a preamp. I decide to give it a go anyway. To my surprise, the volume was actually LOWER (3 to 6 db less in my estimation), and the attack of the mids and mid-bass was lower as well. Both of the SET monoblocks are from the same manufacturer (Wright), and each amp has premium tubes in it: the 300Bs are Western Electric with Sylvania chrome top 6sn7s and Mullard GZ34s; the 2a3s are RCA grey plates with Tung Sol 6sn7s, and JAN Phillips 5y3s, so the quality of the tubes doesn't seem to be a differentiating point in the amps as far as I can tell. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are no absolutes in this game. We can only imagine what we will hear from different configurations and make assumptions based upon what we read. I really expected more clear results from the SET amp switching. I thought the 300Bs would be LOUDER, in fact too loud with no attenuation, with more bass. What I got was all little softer and just, well, DIFFERENT. Don't dismiss amps with out listening to them first. Whenever you can, try them in your own system. The results might surprise you! Darrell

Yeah, that story got to me too. I couldn't believe how that one mother so easily decided just to choose any baby, and not tell the doctor he had made a mistake and switched the babies around. I guess some people just don't think things through like they should. I felt sorry for the one daughter that was so different from the rest of her siblings. Then when the truth came out, she felt she had lost her family connections, and had her world turned upside down.

Gregg, my thoughts are with you and your family. I hope all the procedures go smoothly. Darrell

Synthfreek, my wife and I try to listen every weekend. One of my all time favorites was called "Squirrel Cop", act 2 of a show called First Day, about people's first days on the job. Show # 115. Originally aired 11/13/98, rebroadcast on 12/13/02. Enjoy! Darrell

Nice job Fini! From the first photo it looks like you had a screw left over; happens to me too. Are those magic pebbles on your windowsill? [] Darrell

My new fav is Chuck Prophet. His new one "Soap and Water" and previous "Age of Miracles" are very solid. Guitar driven rock with a (little) country twang on some songs and more modern arrangements on others. Amusing, sly lyrics throughout. Caught him last night at a small bar in San Francisco. A master of the Telecaster, he burned the house DOWN! Darrell

Add my voice as well! Mark did some substantial tweeks to my BBX w/ cream FOR FREE even though I bought the unit USED from another forum member. He offered to do that without me even asking. Not gonna see that kind of customer service many other places, if at all. I've met him in person, he's a real gentleman and passionate about sound. Darrell

Giancarlo, I live in the Bay Area too, and would like to see and hear them. You have a pm from me.

Giancarlo, I live in the Bay Area too, and would like to see and hear them. You have a pm.

Giancarlo, you have a pm.

Giancarlo, you have a pm.

One area of production (besides feature films) that still uses 35mm film is TV commercials, especially national spots. Hi-def video is definitely making inroads but 35mm still bests it in latitude. Video boasts a film-like latitude, and it IS getting better every year, but it's not there yet, especially in the upper end of its range. It tends to blow out quicker and not in a pleasing way that film does. Films stocks have also made significant advances in the last few years, but they're definitely on the way out. The new crop of professional hi-def cameras with their larger imagers and ability to easily use the best 35mm lenses will soon bring the film world to its practical end. It's too bad really, shooters much prefer using film cameras. Great viewfinders, ergonomic controls and the lack of ALL THOSE WIRES associated with hi-def systems make them much faster to set up and easier to operate. I have to admit as a lighting person I prefer working in the best video systems because of the real-time feedback I get looking at a good on-set monitor. Less metering and guesswork involved. In the end, producers and most directors will push for more video production. It's cheaper to shoot and edit. Most film is transfered to video anyway when it's posted. TV commercials certainly are and most big budget feature films go though a digitial intermediate process for editing purposes even if it will be re-transfered to film for projection. The lines are getting more blurred every year.

Josh, I recently picked up a copy of Rocco Delucca and the Burden "I Trust you to Kill Me". I think you'd like it High energy, tight band, good hooks. BTW, last night I saw Angelique Kidjo in concert (remember her music from the shootout?). She was AMAZING! A tight band, married with her commanding vocals and exciting bursts of joyous dancing. I highly recommend catching her in concert. I think she is going to NYC next. Darrell

Sad story Josh, I want to also share a little tidbit of info about that movie, showing the power of Scorsese even in his younger days. The guys he got to operate cameras at the concert are/were some of the leading cinematographers of our time. It truly parallels the list of people that were on the stage! They may not have gotten to show all their chops (they were only shooting a concert, and the lighting is only as good as the technology was in that era), but many went on the shoot and light some of the most famous movies of the '70s, '80s and '90s. Living and working in SF (well after the doc. was made unfortunately) I know a few of the guys who worked on the film and have even had the pleasure of working with and meeting a few of these legends. Another GREAT concert film also directed by a movie director (Jonathon Demme) is "Stop Making Sense" by the Talking Heads. Whether you like their music or not, the staging and buildup of the concert is truly wonderful, not your typical concert setup. Darrell

Thanks Mark. No not everything was on vinyl. We started each amp pass with a couple of songs on CD by Angelique Kidjo, a vibrant singer from the African country of Benin. Her music is dynamic with strong vocals and rhythm tracks and a pretty well recorded CD to kick things off. I could tell however that sound quality took a step forward when we switched to the table. My CD player is not in a league with your Rega.

I think it's funny from Bryan's photo that the SPL meter got the best seat in the house! I invited people to sit there and nobody would.[8-)] I guess we were all to mannerly. Maybe we NEEDED FINI THERE! []

That's funny fini![] It IS on a serving tray, the only thing I could come up with to fit its footprint in this temporary configuration. I've definitely run out of room on top of this dining sideboard! To complete Josh's description it's a Gyrodec SE (spider edition- on springs), with a Rega RB 600 arm. The cart is a LOMC Tranfiguration Aria. I didn't put it together myself, but it's a package I bought on Agon from a guy in San Jose. It does sound good to me- very natural. My assessment of the different amps may yield a slightly different order of preference, though I will start by saying they all sounded good in different ways, not a dog in the bunch (no pun intended)[]. I think the best overall winner is the pCATS as well. Great tonal balance, all the music sounded very clean and listenable with good weight, a fine pairing with the BBX (of course) and the Khorns. [Y] Second place gets a little trickier for me, and I think it becomes a matter of personal taste as to what you might want in an amp, more finesse and detail or more bottom and a livelier presentation. It also speaks to what you listen to (and how). If you like more vocal and acoustic music and like to sit in the sweet spot, I'd definitely go with the Moondogs. Great tonal balance, with a very 3 dimensional presentation[] and a sweet liquid midrange. And good, natural sounding bass, it's no slouch. Good quality watts thru great tubes, caps and iron. But, if you like it livelier and want to fill a big room and REALLY FEEL the bottom, it's the VRDs. Sometimes I like to wallow in it and really pump up the volume, rock out, and they're always there for me. It's too bad we didn't have that one really "open it up" song in the cue. I had some Zep and Who on CD but was starting to feel we had enough songs already and frankly my CD player was being picky and I didn't want to mess with changing out CDs during the run of songs. Don't get me wrong, the playlist was GREAT and Josh's records were of very good audiophile quality and all of the songs had wonderful revealing detail and dynamics. Bryan wanted to go back and do a "rattle the dishes" pass and in hindsight it would have been fun, but 5 hours was enough time. I must say that the bass presentation of the VRDs on the Allison Krauss song sounded a bit boomy, not as naturally musical as on some of the other amps. On other songs I more enjoyed the fuller bottom extension the VRDs give, as well as the more pronounced top end. It must also be noted that Mark Deneen is not a fan of high end sizzle as was evidenced in our listening session with him two weeks ago. He may have better, more sensitive ears to high frequency than most of us. I think that is also evidenced in his amp design, it seems to present a softer high end. High and low frequency presentations are definitely a matter of personal taste and a great source of battles of opinion over amp and speaker (and tube) choices and are better left to the individual. Next, I felt, was the Adcom 585. It did sound very smooth, better than I thought solid state could thru the horns. Much better than my Adcom 535 (100wpc). Good, well mannered sound with no distortion, very listenable. But I also thought it was a little veiled, not as lively and fully formed a sound as the tube amps provided. Nothing really seemed to move to the foreground for me. I was also surprised that they didn't do the low extension as well as the VRDs. Should have done that last pass with some rock (or electronic music) at higher sustained volume to do a better test on that. Lastly were my Wright 3.5s, the little amps that (almost) could, my first tube amps. When I put these into my system last year I couldn't believe the realism I was hearing for the first time. Nice, detailed presentation, liquid midrange, but alas, no real oomph. I have to say that George's preamps have more gain than the BBX. The 3.5s mate better with my Wright WPL20, more volume for sure. This was my first pairing of the little 2A3 amps with the BBX and they sounded more tame than ever to me, but we didn't bring the volume all the way up either. They were also last in the cue (an afterthought that Bob wanted to hear) and they suffered for it. The Wrights didn't hold a candle to the Moondogs, didn't have the caps or iron to give them a run for the money, but they also retailed for about half the price in their day. The Wrights are a good little amp if you do nearfield listening of acoustic music. Might be good paired with those single-driver Fostex speakers. Educated guess, Mark? All in all, a good day with great company. Wonderful music from fine equipment. Doesn't get much better than that for me.[]. Take these opinions with a grain of salt. It all depends on what you listen to and HOW YOU LIKE IT. No bashing or flames should result from any of the different amp design factions. To me, it all sounded good in its own way. That's the beauty (and maybe the curse as well) of owning Klipsch; you can try different topologies and wattages and get revealing auditions. Remember as Edmond (Jazman) stated a couple of weeks ago, the best thing is to listen BEFORE you buy if you can, even better if you can test drive amps in your own system if at all possible. YMMV. Darrell

Not to worry Edmond, I'm no headbanger. I'll send you email today. D

Sounds good to me![<)] Edmond?

Gary, that's precisely where I finally decided to put my VRDs in the system over my Wright 3.5s. It was in playing vinyl. I have a large room and felt I ran out of gas playing in the higher volumes. The Wrights, though sweeter sounding and more focused, were thinner sounding, particularly with my vinyl rig. I listen to a wide range of music including rock, and the VRDs just bring the power. I'm trying to get jazman to my place for a shootout. I KNOW his 'Dogs are better than my stock Wrights, and I'd like to hear the difference. Darrell

I want to chime in and say that both Craig AND Mark are fine and rare examples of vendors in this audio world where we all share this passion. I am the beneficiary of TWO deals of the century for used components made by these two craftsmen. The VRDs I bought on the forum had a short stay with Craig, who for a small nominal charge went through them and brought them back to new spec. The BBX w/cream I recently purchased from a forum member has a couple of noise issues which Mark openly volunteered to repair FOR FREE. The BBX is used, THIRD HAND no less, and Mark knows I bought it for about half price of new. How's that for dedicated service to your product line and its customers? Without even asking, shipping is also being covered by the seller, one of our forum members. This also speaks volumes about the character of I dare say the vast majority of us Klipsch devotees. I hope both of these men have long and rewarding careers of producing audio components that enhance our daily existence through the enjoyment of music. Sometimes we need to step beyond the spec sheets and arguing over the various amplification topologies and remember why we're really in this hobby. Relax and listen to some good music today. [Y] Darrell

Hi, I just got ahold of this thread today. Sorry Joe, for your missed opportunity. I'd be interested in attending a bay area get together. I'll be working my tail off all that week but could try to make something on Saturday. When and where? I'm in Oakland. Darrell

Thanks Joe, the VRDs are doing just fine, rocking my house! Bias is holding beautifully. Rolled the 12au7s to RCAs and 12ax7s to Telefunkens for a nice improvement (I believe). The Blueberry will be a better match for them than my Wright pre, The volume currently JUMPS off the knob. Now I can move a complete Wright system to my Heresies for a second stereo upstairs. Interesting story that this will be a reuntied pairing! When did you sell to Pete? I'll think about the cabinet and tubes later when I've had time to see and hear. Thanks!

Thanks Mark, I shall! []