m8o

@ Daddy dee... I think they mate really really well. I imagine some others might like 2 or 3db attenuation. But for me they're pretty spot on with what I'm wanting out of my La Scalas presently. Un-equalized, the 2407 have about 15db more output @ 2K than 15K (and then they have a spike-up @ 20K), [ http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=21754 ] so even crossed over rather high with the la Scala's x-over relative to its capabilities in the high-mid-range , it still develops a good amount of presence from the unit, as opposed to the JBL 2402 or 2404 drivers, or original tweeter. If anything I wish the tweeter was closer to the mid as the separation distance is noticable given the size of the lens, the mid horn's center is about a foot away vertically from the tweeter's center. And the 2407 being as diminutive as it is, I can't just lay the driver on the cabinet's top as I did the 2402 and mini-Smiths and have the weight of the driver hold the lens there. If I don't weigh it down the weight of the lens pulls the whole assembly forward. (presently the lens is angled back on top of the cabinet ever so slightly to keep it there near vertical) I didn't make anything permanent as I was expecting all of this to be temporary. @ Both: case in point... I use a Onkyo 939 as my processor, with treble, mid-bass, and bass controls from -12db to 12db. When using the 2402 + mini-Smith, I found I usually needed to set the tone control at +4db bass, -8db mid-bass, 0db or -2db treble for the most enjoyable tone. I just didn't like 'boost' on the treble as it would sound sharp and edgy to me. And that's a 12db difference between bass and mid, and 6db to 8db difference between mid to tweeter. Now, with this setup, I am running +8db bass, -2db or 0db mid-bass, +2db or +4db treble for the most enjoyable 'tone'. Yielding only a 8-10db diff between mid and bass, and 2-4db difference between mid and treble: And if the music ever warrants it, I can crank the treble all the way up, and the 2407J driver + 2342 lens just sizzles in the sweetst of ways.. And smoothness around the room is dramatic. My treadmill is at about 120 degrees (or more?) and eliptical at about 90 degrees from the face of the speakers. With this setup there's a whole lot more upper midrange to treble when I'm working out. @Marvel: I don't have a 1" threaded throat to 3 or 4 hole adapter as of yet. I've been wanting to find a pair of JBL 2426 drivers at a good price just so I'd also have the 3 hole adapter too. However wiht that said, there's a phase plug that I think plays an important role on the mini-Smith and it's conical throat. There wouldn't be a way to use any of that with the 2407. And the mini-Smith's throat entry hole is much smaller than the 2407's exit. I may give it a try if the adapter holes line up with the mini-smith's mounting plate, but I'm thinking it may not mate well. TBD tho... []

JBL 2432 Lenses mated to the newer generation 2407J Drivers. Using the standard tweeter crossover unaltered, and I'm loving the sound. I'd been using some mini-Smith horns with JBL 2402 drivers before. These are a lot more efficient and give a dramatically wider and smoother dispersion around the room. I didnt realize I was missing so much high end until now (though I have the gear to measure it in the form of a great updated Terrasonde Audio toolbox, and I should have) I like the combo so much, I'm looking to buy another set of 2342s as I was going to use these in the sides, and just bought two more pairs of 2407H drivers (the H is the 8-ohm version). I'm curious to see if I like the 8-ohm or 16-ohm better with the stock crossover. Of course all of this is before I move over to tri-amping every horn [F/C/R] using a Crown USM 810. I'm also hoping to win a set of 2344 Lenses. After which I'll have the "whole set" of butt cheeks! A whole bunch of the 2404s, these 2342s (and maybe antoher set) and then the 2344s 12" square butt-cheeks [i.e., almost life-sized! <lol>].

Awesome. Thanx very much for that. Page 2 is exactly what I was looking for; or at least while not polar plots provides enough info to give me what I was looking for. [Y] (yes, directivity of the swaker certainly does become very high before x-over to the tweeter) Thanx very very much. -steve P.S. while I understand you point about more formal measurements, I can't help but consider how this speaker's bass horn -needs- to interact with the floor, and how I'd like the mid horn to match that in-room, and better than I think/see the K-400 does. So I acutally like this sort of testing better for what I'm working on. I have 800Hz and 500Hz smith horns, but I'm beginning to consider a JBL 2380A or 2382A instead as a better match. (I'm using mini smith horns for tweeters already.)

I've looked a good bit, but didn't find : Is the K-400 a [HxV] 60x40 or 90x40 or 120x50 degree (all approximate) or some variation therein? Does the K-400 get beemy before crossing over to the tweeter? (not that important, just curious) And how does the mid horn match the bass in the La Scala? What is the approximate dispersion of the la Scala's bass horn in the 300 - 500 hz region? Answers to any appreciated; to all a gold star. [H] Thanx, -steve

Just wanted to let everyone know, I've received a lovely LaScala bass horn from mr. Bluesboy delivered to me a few weeks ago. Really really excellent workmanship. Thank you so much Don. Regarding the thread on my build.... I should have the last 4 amps I purchased soon (I bought 8 vintage tube amps; using one of the ones I already had, making 9 total), so I'll be laying everything out and arranging it soon; pix and all. All can keep your eyes out for "My Klipsh / JBL / Wood Horn Shot Gun Wedding" thread from me in the next week or two. [H] Thanx again Don!!! You're a true craftsman.

what brand and model do you use?

I dont' think you are imagining, or you and I (and whoever else agrees) are all imagining the same thing. I noticed this months ago. When watching music videos or listening to the digital MusicChoice channels up in the 800s (cablevision), I came to the realization there is less (or -no-) noise from outside, the power is cleaner, and the audio signal off the cable line is cleaner. I sometimes find myself listning to music 'till 4am as it's so much sweeter then.

to bluesboy, silly, silly, me... just as I didn't get a notice from the board when you sent me a PM but I did when you replied on this thread, I should have did the same when I replied last week as you wouldn't get notice of the PM either. (where's the bonk-myself-in-the-head-with-a-hammer smiley? ) ...with that said [:$] ... bluesboy, you have a PM.

The LaScala clones have been parted out. However I can build you a single cabinet for a center if you're interested. Hello bluesboy, I sent you a PM (or e-mail?) through the board but haven't heard back from you. I don't know if it made it to you. I definitely would like to contract purchase of a center La Scala bass horn from you. As it looks like I'll be using a full-size Smith mid and mini-Smith tweeter horns (made by another craftsman like you who resides on the Lansing Heritage website), I wouldn't need the top section of the La Scalas. If the price is right, I may be interested in contracting 3 La Scala bass horn cabinets (so I don't have to "cut-up" my existing La Scalas to change-over the mid and tweeter horns.) Please PM or e-mail me through the board. Looking forward to hearing from you. -steve

I dont' know how much more theory there is to be had then what is written in the PDF of my 1st post, and the early Lansing/JBL material linked to in my post (# 847428) on the bottom of the 1st page of this thread.

Klewless, you are anything but! [8-|] Entertaining synopsis of your experience.

From all I've read, I think a Smith Horn / JBL 2397 would be the mid-horn I would swap to. I was about to open a thread asking for thoughts comparing the K401 to the Smith Horn / JBL 2397 in a Klipsch La Scala. This idea is right on topic with this thread with that so I'll piggie-back here. DeanG, I hope you read this. I read in a post from 2003 regarding a tube active x-over, that you and another in that thread use the Smith Horn. Is this true and still the case? I started by thinking of going to a 2405 tweeter; better move that I'm working on right now is to a change over to a mini-Smith Horn clone using a JBL 2402|2405 driver (just the driver, sans their own horn or course). I'm then considering replacing the K401 with the 'life-size' 2397 too (I'll be tri-amping). ...so, Do you feel the Smith Horn would mate well with the La Scala's base horn? (forget the tweeter, as I mentioned I'm changine that) I have no idea however if the Smith Horn would be 'too' wide a dispersion compared to the La Scal Horn. I have no idea of the dispersion characteristics of the La Scala's bass horn to compare .... I have no idea of the K401's dispersion for that matter. (Anyone know dispersion of both?) The other factor is the lowest recommended x-over frequency. JBL states 800Hz, even though I understand some use it lower. I don't know how the horn responds that extra octave lower; I'm hoping you can say. (I started a thread where people told me the La Scala horn can work up to about 800)

seems like the free-standing Klipsch bass horn, the La Scala, would be a better fit for that room.

lol ... not to take anything away from DrWho as I've been duely impressed by his knowledge in numerous threads and posts, but just click the link to the Wiki article .... Look familiar? []

Actually, not totally. Both that statement and the animation are 1/2 right. The Square Wave "contains only [an infinite # of] odd integer harmonics." I read that above, saw the animation showing 'even' harmonics as well, but said to myself "I thought it was only odd". And surely enough, the Wiki article says the same (which I quoted). A hobby of mine many many years ago was to program AutoCAD in the built in AutoLisp and apply different levels of harmonics, even and/or odd, added and/or subtracted, where the coefficients mutiplied to every harmonic would follow any linear equation I programmed in, and would apply that to an oscillating mesh in the z-axis ... fun, and very pretty stuff.

The LaScala clones have been parted out. However I can build you a single cabinet for a center if you're interested. Bluesboy, could you make it "Pro" style? Meaning, separate bass bid from mid/hi bin ; further, I dont' think I'd need the mid/hi bin come to think of it. I'm thinking of doing a video projector and screen in place of my old tube bigscreen. Would use the La Scala bass bin in the center, a sub on either side, and a large video screen on top of the La Scala bass bin. I'd then fly the mid/hi horns behind the screen. ...just wondering.

p.s. I editted all my previous posts replacing K701 with K401. I'd been saying "K700/K701" thinking that's what the La Scala used. err, stupid me; it's the K400/K401.

Yo were probally bidding against the seller..... I know I wasn't. A little bit of research of past sales of the seller showed me the person I was bidding against won the matching horn for the lens a few days before; stole it with no other bidders on just one bid. I knew I was in for trouble once he showed up on the lens @ the end; I outbid him once and he gave it a day or two. After I saw two hi'r bids one after another, I knew after he just bid above me then raised his hi bid to some astronomical #, because he stole the horns for nothing so had money to play with. By then i'd given up from what I'd learned, so I just strategically put in a bid I kew would raise the price and make him pay, but wold not be high enough for me to become the hi bidder... I needed a bit of satisfaction. Yes, I can be a very tactical eBay'r, and on special occasions a sore loser [] ... [:@] I wanted those darn lenses!

...p.s. based on what I learned thanx in part to you all, I gave up the fight and let the other bidder who wanted it win the auction.... [li]

I'm in your debt. What a dingaling, and neophite I am. I'll see if I can edit the 1st post and change it. ( edit: I can't [] ) I actually though the K40x is what's used in the Bells and the 70x is in the La Scala; embarrasing. [:$]

...that's cardboard? ...outside? I'm hoping those are brought in in the rain. [] That is an interesting proposition. The thing that comes to mind about cardboard tho is I think the 'soft' material would result in a lot more loss of the signal then steel slots through resonation and dampening. JBL states only about 1% is lost through their lens. From page 3 here: http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/reference/technical/lens.htm It's a great read on the theory. I wish for more. I'm just wondering if as cardboard is not as rigid while being transparent to sound, there would be more loss.

Yes, it's interesting to compare polar plots between the 2395 and 2310. Based on just observation from the doc I linked to in the OP, it seems if you just want 1K Hz and up control, a bit under 2:1 lens/horn width ratio or is enough (the lens & horn you mention). If you want wide WIDE dispertion in the 1K Hz or below range, you need the 3:1 ratio of the 2395 lens.

[:'(] I haven't come across by how much yet, but I'll be looking. Do you happen to have a link to where I might learn the theory about "by how much"? Looks like I'll have to change the horn then too if I want to use a lens; Didn't want to do that. Or maybe use the 2395 lens? . Thanx for the info. (as I sulk away with the wind taken out a bit [:$] )

Unlike the K-horns, I don't see a lot of customized La Scalas. FYI, if I win this and another auction, my La Scalas are going to be transformed. a) I'll replace the existing tweeter with a JBL 077 slot horn tweeter I'll have a 2310 lens over the K701 horn ; will change to a matching horn if the Lens and K701 don't couple nice. c) I'll be tri-amping with active x-over (of course) and custom designed and built transconductance amps made individually to match each horn. [H]