Klipsch_Geek

The RS-42 II's would get you nothing in all 4 corners except for a very noisy soundfield with lack of directionality.

Must have been good climate control wherever your speakers were. I have rarely had ~35 year old woofers that didn't need a little cone or foam work. As for crossovers, I like to make my changes on both sides of a pair so they have a better chance matching sonically. Some say it matters, some say it doesn't, but I have found I prefer it when they match (could be all in my head, since I know if both sides are done or not ).

My #1 recommendation to my customers, which is rarely listened to, is to spend 50-75% of your equipment budget on speakers. Not as flashy now days as the really big screen, but odds are high there are no other components that will be in use 7 years from now, let alone 20 years from now. In 2 channel, a nice amplifier and playback device will be around for years. In Home Theater, the receiver, flat panel, projector, media playback (Blu, DVD, etc), none of them will be valid and competitive 10 years from now. The La Scala's I built my home theater around ~20 years ago are still amazing today, and in fact, would cost me more to replace, let alone improve. Since that time I have had more displays, dvd/blu-ray players, and surround sound processors/amps/receivers than I can keep track of. Not saying you need to spend "La Scala" money, but good speakers will stay good for years to come. As for screen, the paint on screens can work very well. More labor intensive than I prefer, but you can get good performance, and you don't have to worry about sag. Projectors, I like the Mitsubishi projectors as far as bang for buck, or Epson. Receivers, I was off Yamaha for awhile because of some design changes and cost cutting that I disliked. However, if you can find a dealer that carries the Aventage pieces, I think these in particular are back to where Yamaha should be. Other good options from Denon and Integra. No need now days to spend more than $1000 on a receiver unless you really want to or your budget for speakers warrants it. For speaker recommendations, I would have to talk budget and lifestyle first. Would talk about the TV/Movie/Music usage, styles preferred, WAF? My general rule though is if you at all listen to music for fun/relaxation, spend more on your Front L/R than you do on your other speakers.

You could go with the RB-61 II's. With front ports they get along better withwall mount than the 51's. I would not recommend boxing the inwalls. They really do sound best with an air space of 14"x1.5"x8ft (ie a space between wall joists). That is what they are designed for, and having heard them crammed into all sorts of different spaces, I can say the inwalls do best when they are closest to "ideal" air space behind them.

I have heard several of that generation Pioneer speakers, and there is no comparrison. A few questions though: What era LaScala? What kind of amplification? What is the room like? There may be better options, though we don't know enough right now to suggest any. One thing I can tell you is, if the LaScala's are as old as the CS-63DX's, either or both pairs will need work on the crossovers and drivers. Once we know what age LaScala's you are dealing with there are many here who can mak recommendations. Progably have to check out AudioKarma or another site if you are looking for help rebuilding the Pioneers.

Two things 1) If you wanted the "Not Klipsch" answer, you need to ask it on the "Not Klipsch" Forum 2) If the price is equal, and the La Scala's are legitimate, there is no way you should turn them down.

If you have ruled out the RB-81 II's because of price, enough said, understand, moving on. If not, don't let the specs fool you, the 81's do have a very noticeable improvement in sound over the 61's, in my opinion more so than in the first series 61's and 81's. If 81's just can't happen, absolutely go with the 61's over the 51's. I typically only sell 41's because of size/cost, or then 61's and 81's. As was previously posted, the 61's have much nicer mid-bass, and the front porting does give you some better placement options.

I have the stock KT-88's. There is plenty of bass from this setup with the RF-83's, it was just the La Scala's having a little issue with "low" bass. Problem would have been resolved with a nice sub supplementing things. As for the PrologueThree with a Bryston, I am sure that combo would sound pretty good. Right now I am debating what to buy as a pre to go along with my 300B SET amps.

The easy answer is, you should never be sitting in the dead centr of a rectangular room. As a good base measurement to go off of, you can sit 2/5 of the length back from the TV, or 3/5's of the length back. These aren't exact, but they get you away from the center collection of a lot of bad bass modes/nulls. In most cases I lean towards 3/5's of the length away from the TV, at that point the surrounds would be just the other side of center, with the fronts and rear surrounds being 18-24" from the front and back wall respectively. If your seating location is closer than half-way, I would go ahead and put the surrounds at the half-way point, with the fronts and rears the same as above.

Your problem here is that these are not technically directional speakers, nor are they dipole or wide dispersion type surrounds. If you were dealing with 7502's for the surrounds, and 5800 In-Walls for the fronts and rear surrounds, you should absolutely look at standard or close to standard placement. But with In-Ceilings that are "direct" I would look to get as wide and defined a rear surround field as possible. You may lose some directionality but you would gain a much larger sounding back field. I would have the side 5800's parallel to your listening position, and then line up the fronts and rears with them. Ultimately this will also give you a nicer spread for 7 channel stereo music playback in the room.

No problem. I understand the realities of both construction and WAF. If you have a HAA certified calibrator, or an Audio installer with modeling tools and an RTA local you could get them to come in and give you better recommendations for the room, but that might be more money than it is worth for those speakers and that configuration. I would typically charge $300 for a pre-visit with recommendations and then a post visit for tweaks and calibration, though there would be less placement to tweak with this install. The other problem for the room is going to be treatments. You are going to be pretty limited in that. If you can get the 5800-C's to not sound too bad, you can then start building an out-building to use as for listening!

The bass is definitely not as strong as the LaScala's needed, but not bad for the KHorns. I really prefer the sound of my Primaluna Prologue 2, but I need to sell it to pay for the 8wpc SET 300B amps I am going to use instead. Since the Primaluna is affordable and auto-biasing, it may be one of the ones you looked at. I have been very happy with it, other than lack of remote control. Itis well worth the money when compared to other integrated's near that price range.

The 2x4"s being laid flat is the problem then. If the wall had been built correctly, and maybe it is correct for what you wanted the look to be, but not from a standard framing perspective, you would have been able to install In-Wall speakers that at least got rid of the cardinal sin of using In-Ceilings for your front 3. I install In-Wall and In-Ceiling speakers for customers all the time, it is a necessary evil in the biz, but I always hate to see In-Ceilings as the front 3, especially with all those hard surfaces and that hard floor. Kiss directionality and depth of sound goodbye. Now, on to the solution for what you have, I would spread the Front L/R and Rear L/R out as far as you can within the dimensions of the room. Try to keep them at least 18" from any side boundary, but more like 24" if you can (it will just depend on how the ceiling joists run. Then put the center over the TV, again 18-24" away from the front wall if you can. More likely you can get it 1+ joist space out. These are not exact measurements, as I would have to spend some time on the room to figure out optimal placement, but they are good guidelines. Ultimately you can only do what you can do, and we can't all be lucky enough to have trained our wives early that speakers can be nice furniture that does something other than hold crap As far as speaker choices go, the only thing you could have done different was to get the 7502's for the rear instead to have a wider spread rear sound field, but with as "live" as that room looks, that may have been overkill.

I thought my 5 LaScala HT was complete, until I added a pair of 60th Ann KHorn's on a deal I just couldn't pass up. Now I have 7.1 with Khorns, 5 LaScala's and an RSW-15. I really can't see anything changing for a long time, but you never know

Can't say I have heard the new RF-62 II's yet, but if I were to compare the ICON to the old RF-62's it would be a tossup. If you could, I would try to go with the RF-82 II's. The old RF-82's sounded better than the ICON 36's, so the new 82 II's should be better still. I can give you a better listening opinion in about a week when my set get's here along with my RF-7 II's.

I have an NAD M3 that has at various times been hooked up to KHorns, LaScala's, RF-83's and soon RF-7's. While I like the sound of tube better with the KHorn's and LaScala's, the M3 did an admirable job, and is a good option for someone not into tube for whatever reason. Bought it as a demo piece when I picked up the NAD Master Series line, and liked it so much I left it hooked up in my basement.

Glad to hear things are sounding better. I would have gotten around to toe-in and sound treatment eventually. In my current room, with KHorns, I have eliminated the treatments, but it is an odd shape and I have had good luck. In the last room, placing HF absorbing panels behind and at the first reflection point really cleaned up the vocals and strings without losing anything noticeable. the best thing now would be to shift everything 6" to the left or right, realizing that the speakers an chair will be off-center. That may or may not work for you, and if you can't shift the front speakers, you could adjust toe-in on the two a little off from each other and then just scoot your listening position about 6"-12" off center. This should improve your bass performance even more, but it will be a little finicky to get the toe in just right, and unfortunately you don't have that much room to play with.

I have room-modeling software I use when I perform an HAA calibration on audio systems, but it really is just a "best guess". I then use a RTA to measure and dial-in placement. Try it out, and let us know how it sounds. Also, if you want to get me exact dimensions and seating placement, down to the half-foot, and I can play around a bit more in it if you want?

So, you may have been in that room for 20 years, but every speaker is a bit different.I hate to say this, but being against a wall is never a good thing in a square or rectangular room. At best, you are missing some bass and enhancing some other. In a square room, being centered is also very bad for bass modes and nulls. Your best option based on some very basic seating models would be to sit 7ft from your front wall, with your chair off to the side by 2ft (though even 1 ft would be better than dead center. I would also suggest having the front center of the woofer placed 2.5 ft from the side walls and 3ft from back wall. With these room dimensions that may be difficult when trying to get good sound and have the room look right. Modeling for the room geometry may be difficult, but ultimately if you can find someone who has a spectrum analyzer and knows how to tweak a parametric EQ you might be able to tune some of the rooms bass response. Another solution worth playing with would be a complementary subwoofer with the correct placement, but now the models get much more complex and it is time for real world measurements.

Cabinets alone are worth $350 if they are genuine and in good shape. Don't worry about the finish as much as if they are structurally sound. And I agree, don't fix them there. Look at them, hem and haw, and then offer $250 to make them go away that day! Good Luck!

I think you need to go listen to some RF-82 II's. I will have my demo pair in a week or so, and can tell you what I think vs.the RF-83's. The RF-82's are not the same beast as the regular 82's. With some trickle down Palladium technology, and dropping the crossover of the horn by an octave, they should have some noticeable improvements that may put them in the ballpark of the 63's. I heard them briefly, but I will have a better perspective once I get my pair in and get them broken in. Also getting a pair of RF-7 II's so I can give my opinion of how they stack as well. I will then have 82's, 83's, 82 II's, and 7 II's.

I do have that Primaluna piece over on the Garage Sale for sale. I also have a Golden Tube SE 300B MKII that I might be persuaded to part with?

I am currently driving my 60th Ann K-Horns from a Yamaha RX-Z11 receiver in my HT setup. Recently in 2 channel, I have used an NAD M3 (SS integrated), a PrimaLuna Prologue Two (integrated KT88 tube) I really liked the PrimLuna, but I have some SET 300B amps that I need to hookup once I get a nice pre to go with them. For the right price, the M3 is a good unit, very dependable, predictable sound out of it with several mediums for playback. A little pricey at retail though. From a bargain perspecitve, I tried a Marantz PM5004 and thought it sounded great for the price!

I think it is time to check out the electronics, or see if there is some accoustic issues to deal with via sub placement, speaker placement, or sub settings. I have RF-82's in a 2 channel setup with no crossovers, and I would not describe the Bass as muddy. I think they perform surprisingly well, just not extending quite as low or hitting quite as hard as the RF-83's. If I was running them in a Multichannel setup with a Sub I would cross them over at no higher than 60hz, because in the 80-120hz range they really perform well. I have also checked them with my SP295 RTA and they really do have a nice response curve down to around 45hz. Drop off is noticeable down to 35hz, and then extreme from there.

Long time Klipsch lover and dealer here. I have RF-83's and RF-82's both as semi-permanent fixtures in my house for 2 channel. I have driven them with everything from a 35wpc monoblock, a Yamaha RX-Z1, some older Adcom gear, and the current piece I drive the RF-83's with is the M3 from NAD's Master Series. Since the RF-7's and 83's are spiritual siblings, I would tell you that on my 83's I do not miss a sub at all. If you go with the 7's, move the sub to wherever the RB's are going. With 82's I would be more inclined to keep the sub an just have the crossover point adjusted pretty low, I would play with the 45-60hz range and see how it sounds. Obviously this would be easier with an RTA (Real-Time Analyzer), and if you lived near the Kansas City area I would be happy to come over and help, but I doubt that is the case. My advice is without hearing the difference, I would go with the RF-7's for the right price. You can get a deal any day of the week on RF-82's, but RF-7's are getting rare. Great deals can also be had occasionally on RF-83's, but if the RF-7 price is right, go for it! Kelsyn