SET12

That is correct, But actually its the source signal that is lost or attenuated, think of this, sometimes the source signal is better than a line stage because the gain circuit in a line stage maybe poor. Which was the case many times with my Sony X77ES. Most volume controls look at the source signal directly. There are what we call interstage volume controls where the pot will be between gain stages. You can measure a pot with an ohm meter, an audio taper pot is easy enough I did it and shook my head. It one of the reasons I went source direct with my Sony X77ES for many years. I had more than enough gain built in to my power amps. Some will argue that a preamp is more involving regardless of gain and the active circuit makes up for any so called losses. But in my opinion it takes a darn good line stage to do so. I have heard a few, but I wasn't willing to pay 5-$10,000 to do so to get what I wanted. I enjoyed the extra transparency and because my amplifiers had enough front end gain I never felt any dynamic impact was lost. I also only had two gain stages before my speakers. A lot of SS amps can use as many 7 gain stages and that can be very departmental to the sound. I remember Audio Research had a SS amplifier with just 2 gain stages. I think this is pretty rare today. I once put those controls above on a $500 Marantz Integrated amplifier. The Marantz shocked me! It sounded more like a $2000 integrated.

The 28in stands worked out perfect for me. I just measured the height of the tweeters and they are at 38in. I had my wife measure my ear height and I'm at 40in. I sit about 9ft away from each speaker the speakers are not toed in. Speaker fronts are 2ft from the rear wall. BTW I would buy these stands right away for $60 they are the very same stands that Pangea sells for $400 I kid you not! I verified the stands through photo's off an Audio Advisor sale from winter of 2019 sale catalog. They were identical. When the stands are filled with sand or in my case aquarium rock they can weigh close to 50lbs that gives the Fives a very solid foundation making the bass very firm and very fast. The rest of the range becomes very clear as well. When I initially set up the fives I had them sitting 22in off the floor on my lowboy entertainment center with the fronts 18in from the rear wall. There is just no comparison to the performance with the stands period. I use no bass cut and very few recordings seem to have an issue for me. Guess it would be nice if they would have some treble boost then I could think about taking out the Fosi. But then again I might not be able to run these Transformer Volume Controls allow the Fives to throw a whole new light onto the music. Most of the Fives volume control is nearly completely out of circuit. As well as the Fosi. The advantage of these is much better low to moderate volume performance preserving low level dynamics. Where as conventional volume controls compress music especially at lower level volumes. I got these as a kit from Intact Audio http://www.intactaudio.com/atten.html man it looks as though these have really gone up in price. I think I paid half of what they are getting now. Mine are 23 position. I built these without to much trouble. Some of these have been going into $10,000 amplifiers and with good reason. Yes I still use the Fives remote but with the Transformers I can run the fives volume controls completely out of circuit. Most of the time I have some travel with the fives volume control during most of my listening. I have always heard improved sound with these controls no matter how expensive a preamp or integrated amplifier was the sense of space can be pretty incredible with a pair of these. These are technically Auto Transformers meaning that they only have a single winding with taps that lower or raise the signal levels this makes the transformer design issues much simpler and of much higher quality. Once I heard a set of these I knew I would never go back to conventional controls. I once had these on a $7000 Krell line stage and of course the Krells controls weren't bad but they were not to the level of these. One has to remember that Audio Taper Volume Controls at the 12 o'clock position are only dumping 20% of the actual signal level coming in. So 80% of the signal coming in is attenuated. And that attenuation contributes to the compression. And IMO resistor attenuators are not better then transformers. The problem some people feel is the heat generated by the attenuation contributes to compression. Ever hear of Duelund Resistors? they have a negative temperature coefficient meaning that when the get heated their internal resistance falls. Most resistors have a positive coefficient. You ought to hear the Duelunds in a crossover network! So in the end I'm after quality 2 channel. I can still use them with TV just not as simply as an HDMI ARC. Oh! I did a little test today, I run optical out to my Fosi then analog out to the Fives. I shut down my LG OLED, I had the Fives off as well. When I turned the LG back on the Fives came back up on their own with a short delay. Its as though the have a signal sense built in. SET12

Yeah, I can see that not being able to use the HDMI ARC could be a real let down for people as yourself. Especially if you wanted to use just one remote. I looked for an EQ that could use an HDMI ARC but no such luck! And then there would be the cost and then dealing with sound quality like I did with Schiit DAC and EQ. I like the idea of the mini DSP its is very versatile and will a lot of room for adjustments. But I can't testify of its sound quality. And its about $200. The Fosi was $55 and is excellent. I had LG's $1300 sound bar about a year or so ago the one that didn't analyze the room as the latest model does, but I don't know if I could live with its sound as it sound even leaner than my LG TV which does have a room analyzer but unfortunately only works for the internal speaker. My wife doesn't like elevated TV or Movie volumes so the TV sound is just fine for her. My LG has the option of running both Internal Speaker and Optical out at the same time but of course I have to use the Fives remote and there is a lag between the two. I have found that the Fives seem to have an audio detection that turns them on if audio is present but that doesn't take the place of a nice HMDI ARC. I was nearly going to pull the trigger on Sennheiser AMBEO sound bar but that's $2500 weighs 40lbs it does go to 30hz and it sounds just great but then I read of the Klipsch Fives its got to do a better job with music and reviewers thought it killed most sound bars so I was hooked. But I wasn't able to listen to the Fives before purchasing but still I had some confidence in them. With my EQ most sound bars won't even come close IMO. I do like having the variable EQ of the Fosi, occasionally I'll add the Fives boost as well when working around my Apt. The Fosi I keep fixed as I have found no real reason to touch its levels once set Stands are a must have IMO and are a great help. If you hear from Klipsch Customer Support please post it. SET12

BTW some years ago I heard the CS300 it was very nice I love EL84's. Years ago I designed this EL84 Amp the top of it was brass the Outputs were salvaged from a Pilot Integrated Amplifier. The amplifier has been going strong still after 20yrs.

Nice to know Thanks I have friend that is interested in this! Yeah, IMO they certainly know how to make their stuff musical!

Thanks Guys! Things have certainly changed, much appreciated. Thanks Much SET12

OK I think I found it! its at the very top of the page on the right?

I am not seeing it, I clicked the upper right of the Avatar and I see no account settings?

I just Yeah that's it!

Ok all that old equipment is gone, I'd like to put the new stuff that I'm using in its place

Thank You, Yeah its been awhile, "but I'm Back" BTW can you tell me how to edit my equipment profile at the bottom of my page?

Hi all, Its been many years since I have posted anything on the Klipsch Forum I mostly reside over on the AudioKarma forum. fmalloy was recently over on AK and asked if I had any issues regarding the Fives. And I said no BUT! I to wasn't real happy about the midrange I found it a bit dark just as the reviewer pointed out in Sound & Vision Magazine and once more I was not allowed to hear a pair before buying as the dealer said they are back ordered due to a parts shortage. So I bought them. First thing I thought was if they only had a little more treble energy that might bring the mids more into focus. I looked around for EQ's that used HDMI and I wasn't having any real luck. Then I stumbled into the miniDSP and that looked promising but it was expensive. I looked a little more and for $55 I found this guy! Called the Fosi Q-4 Its no bigger than the palm of your hand it has bass and treble with an optical or coax in with RCA out along with its volume control. I use my own 40 watt wall wart that has a 2 amp 5 volt out. It needs just 1 amp if I recall correctly. I mostly listen to music with occasionally with my wife gone I use the Fives for movies as she doesn't like anything much over a low volume. But every chance I get with her gone I am listening to music and how! I didn't expect much from this little guy since it was so cheap but I wanted to see what influence just adding a bit of treble would do for the Fives as I could really hear some of the potential that I felt the Fives have. Well I got the Fosi and hooked up via analog in, I cranked the Fosi volume up so I could just use the Fives remote I added the treble and I was astonished! I thought this is a match made in heaven in other words it was really a synergistic combination. And Wow it was nice, it had some real nice body wasn't lean sounding. It had a very, very nice presentation of the sound-stage with really great layering and to top it off it was really wide as it easily filled my 16 foot wide wall from floor to ceiling. I have recently gotten Sirius Radio and installed the App on my Roku Ultra. Listening to SPA (New Age Music) I was shocked at what I could hear. Of course I am a Jazz Man at heart and got similar results from Sirius. Next I ordered some Schiit products namely their nicely constructed EQ $150 and I ordered their $100 AC that many people raved about on U-Tube. The EQ sounded the most interesting to try as it had 5 zones of adjustment. I got the Schiit products and gave them a listen! I unfortunately didn't like what I heard. Namely their presentation was very forward or up front and my biggest complaint was the combination was just to lean for my tastes so a few days later I sent the pair back for a refund as they have a 15 day satisfaction guarantee. I really like the company and their attitude towards customers, I did receive my refund so I can whole heartily recommend the company. I will say the Schiit EQ was very transparent more so than the Fosi but the Fosi is just so much more musical and that's a big part of the game for me. So in the end get yourself a Fosi Q-4 and I don't think you'll regret it. I read some where that the Fosi Q-4 was using the famed NE5532 Dual OP Amp. This is the one that my Sony X77ES player used that I had for 20yrs and that player was 40lbs and $2000 new. It played a lot of very nice music for me. Next topic I want to tackle Speaker Stands Because that was another area of great improvement to be had for me. BTW my stands are Monoliths by Monoprice 28in tall which puts the tweeters ear level for me. BTW Pangea sells the same stand under their name for $400/pair when I got mine from Monoprice for just $59/each! They are sand filled as well. I have the Fives front 2ft from my back wall 77in apart in front of my 65in LG OLED I have it on a 16ft wall centered. The Fives throw out such a large sound field that I find its necessary to have no open corners and equal distance to the side walls otherwise one side can sound louder than the other. The fives sound field can envelope my entire 14ft x 16ft listening space if the acoustic ambiance is in the recording. This is clearly astonishing from the Fives IMO for their price the internal amplifiers express space like a great Transmitting Tube amp would example like a Cary Audio 211 Transmitting Tube Amplifier and those my friends last I saw are $10,000/pair. IMO though not perfect, but close enough Klipsch Engineering hit a Home run with the Fives! SET12

Forte's are GREAT speakers at their core but there is hidden greatness within a stock pair! You may hear them as they were new if this is your preferance, but unless you go far enough it isn't likely you'll hear them as above! Fair enough! I have to start somewhere. Hearing a newer set of ForteII's recently has led me to believe, I at the very least need an refresh. I plan on expressing my before and after. Thinking that my forte' could be 85 vintage versus 90's II's that were packed away for the last 8 years approx. until I revived them for another forum member. Thanks Thank You! For the acknowledgement! "Fair enough!" Your right you have to start some where! and I did just that, then I built upon it. I have been fortunate enough to hear and own some very good speakers through the years, I even got to hear Klipsch Flagship P39F's a couple of yrs ago and recently at the last Chicago Audio Show Volti Audio Speakers simler to Klipsch http://www.voltiaudio.com/ which I enjoyed. Both of these speakers are in the $20,000 category. The mods I did to the Forte allow it to compete with these speakers very easily at just a fraction of the investment. Pretty amazing when a pair of Fortes can sound as big as the Volti and even sound for the most part more extended in the low end then with Volti even with the hidden sub they were using and with a recording I have been listening to for over 20yrs. Stay in touch! SET12

Forte's are GREAT speakers at their core but there is hidden greatness within a stock pair! You may hear them as they were new if this is your preferance, but unless you go far enough it isn't likely you'll hear them as above!

It maybe a subject pretty hard to talk about with you as we likely have two different philosophies but since you asked I'll comment on a few things. Some of us are DIYers such as my self. So I'm perfectly capable of rolling my own. I've written a lot on networks trying to get some people to take an interest in networks mostly over on audiokarma. But really I'm more of an amplifier designer. I just wanted more from my speakers and was lucky to have some foresight into other peoples work and took some blind chances some ended up being revelatory and some not so. Some people have taken offers to hear my work and drove as much as a 1000mi to hear it. Its always nice to hear someone really being moved by ones work and seeing their whole perspective on audio change. A lot of times people will point their fingers at components and think its got to be this or that that is doing what they are hearing but really its the whole system as I like to say. I got started on networks because of one of my friends who built a DIY version of ALK's Universal Networks. When I heard it, it made his LaScala's listenable for the first time for me! That influenced me to DIY an outboard network using what I felt was subjectively superior parts for my Forte's. So I have had an influence on a few people through the yrs but its hard for people to hear the light sort of speak! As I read of one major audio buff who has a site on high end sound said through the years he had only met a couple of people with the same tastes as himself so I have come to appreciate his comment and to accept there will be people with their own taste and their own direction even if it's a direction that doesn't make any sense but as I look at it people have a right to live and learn as I say just as I have learned. And whats of interest to them maybe less so for me and so on. I think the best approach for demoing superior networks is going to be an actual side by side speaker demo's or speaker swap outs. And then the demo has to to be pretty traumatic to the people hearing it. As familiar as I am of my own network mods I once forgot just how much better they were till I did a swap of my friends demo stock Fortes I was using. Such as my close friend No Regrats below who is a jazz musician, likes live music several times a week and has one heck of a sound system himself. Comments like these don't get much better but it was a dramatic contrast that I have contrast before with literally having guests in blank stare's or totally speechless. Literally running outside to their vehicle to get more of their music. Funny thing, While the Forte network as ALK likes to point out is not electrically correct it goes to show what subjectively superior components can do with basically the stock values. Other than the DCR's.I really don't care if they match because I don't find a serious significance in it after all the the crossover as ALK says is not electrically correct to begin with like the 100 ohm or so impedance of the mid, Of course this is a whole another story. When he said below that the Forte created the biggest sound stage he had ever heard, I can tell you that stock network barely gets out side of the speakers boundaries. I had this setup on an 18ft wall 9ft apart yet one can perceive ambient room ques indicating the sheer room size of the recording acoustic with very defined lateral imaging has extended as much as 10ft to the left and right of each speaker. Granted not everyone cares for big stages or what I call life size imaging but I do. Its funny to take a grill cover off and look at the tiny horns and ask yourself how the heck can they do this? One thing is that I have learned is that not all associated equipment will allow this. It all has to have the same capability CDP's, amps, preamps and so on. Otherwise the modified Fortes will point any weakness out period. This can result in preconceived notions of the subjective value of doing what I did to the networks. If the gear used is not capable of as much as the Forte.This has result in some pieces of gear barely getting past the speaker boundaries which is no fault of the speakers All though I use some pretty high end caps I have found the Inductors to be way more serious on the influence of sound. Iron Cores just shrink the sound stage from my perspective and I find them very inconsistent or not totally even in their coherency of their frequencies that there being used in for my tastes and because of this I'll never use them again. There is something very right about the North Creek Inductors. And regardless of "Q" factors and such. Try reading this account http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/14/147282.html Here's another guy that went with some of my minimums to get his Fortes moving out of the gate http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=516254 One of my guests that I had here that I designed a pair of extreme 45 amplifiers for was using some 2A3's before was using ALK ES networks for his LaScala's I told him that some engineers like Dr Bruce Edgar prefer simpler networks with high efficiency speakers. I have seen in print where ALK has pointed out that for low power he thought they sounded better as well. I know ALk likes SS high power. I can see the need for ES protecting the drivers. My friend wished he had been told of this. I suggested a DIY ALK Universal. It was built using the famed Sonicraft caps with a Dave Slagel Autotransformer along with North Creek Inductors and Duelund resistors with the resulting sound being much more pleased with. One other area I had experience with was Litz Inductors and yes I know the "Q" factors can't compare. I tried a 14AWG Solen Litz with a Crites Titanium diaphragms and it was just awful very grating on the ears. When I went back to my 8AWG North Creeks it was like a match made in heaven. It had body authority with great ease. Even my local audio club president said it was the best horn high end that he had heard. So much for the #'s so I went with the subjective value. BTW I use a minimalist system with no preamp just CDP direct and 10 watt SET amplifiers but not your typical SET amps by any means. My CDP is also heavily modified. It goes to show a speaker or amplifier doesn't have to be big to get big. For me its all about the first watt. In the end you can go by the #'s but in the end its subjectively why a lot of people buy. I hope this gives you some insight or some idea's. I just visted your website and found it well written and I see a little more varity in part choices which I think is good, It would be nice to see some inductor choices as well like Mundorf which has an option to vacuum varnish impreagnate their coils as my own North Creeks are. I have heard a speaker with Mundorf caps and coils that has been a show stopper for a few years now with excellent coherancy from top to bottom. Perhaps were not so far apart as I thought. Quote: Originally Posted by No Regrets Hello gentlemen, I am not one who posts much on forums, but I cannot hold myself back any longer. SET12 has been a great friend and audio buddy of mine for many years now. I have seen his talents in regards to diy audio grow from doing audio repairs, to modifying circuits, to doing some absolutely outstanding scratch build projects. This guy is incredible with the knowledge that he has accrued over the years and he has earned my total and complete respect. It is both an honor and my pleasure to have him as my friend. So what has prompted me to write this post? Let me tell ya......I was at SET12's house today and we had about a 3 hour listening session, like we do from time to time. Now keep in mind, he has been doing a lot of mod's to his speakers which has been well documented here over the past 30 some pages. I have heard these speakers of his ever since he has had them and have heard them after each step of the modification process. Each time I could hear improvements in what he was doing. A few weeks ago, I was at his home listening to his system and I told him that I cannot believe how far these speakers have come along since he has started. These speakers are a different animal......in a completely different league all together and I told him how proud of him I was in what he has accomplished. But I still didn't come on the forum and write about it.....I guess maybe because I just don't feel comfortable writing in "reviewer speak" . So why now? He did something today that not many people have the opportunity to do. He gave me an A/B/A audition of his modified speakers vs. a stock pair of Fortes. We all have made upgrades over time with various aspects of our systems and much of the time we have to rely on our memories of what something used to sound like. Well today, we didn't need our memories and we had quite an experience to say the least. We listened to his first. Beautiful sounding as always. Then we quickly hooked up the stock Fortes. Now please try and understand my intentions as I go on here. I am not trying to be rude, offensive, or disrespectful in any way, shape, or form. I am trying to be constructive with my comments but will be also direct and to the point. When we switched over to the stock Fortes, I could not believe my ears. The difference that I heard from going from the modded Fortes to the stock Fortes was so great that I think I may have been in shock. It has been so long since I have heard a stock pair of Fortes that I had forgotten what they had sounded like. My memory of them were that they were dynamic, fun to listen to, and overall a decent speaker. After listening to the modded Fortes and then switching over to the stock.....I literally could not listen through the entirety of a whole song. They were lifeless, they sounded restrained and congested. They sounded like what detail they had was being smeared. And what got me the most was the tonality. The voice, the piano, the cymbals, etc.....none of it sounded right. I literally asked SET12 to stop playing the song because it was grating on my ears....the listener fatigue was so high, and the sounds coming from the stock speakers were so displeasing that I could not take it any more. Now, I know that these words are probably not going to sit well with a lot of you who own stock Fortes. But please understand me that when I write these things....I am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. What I am trying to do is light a fire under you to either come and hear SET12's speakers for yourself, or do these mod's and create a monster of a speaker system. With these modded Fortes...the voices, and timbre of instruments sound correct. You do not hear the Klipsch's horns and their resonance distorting the sound as it leaves the speaker. These modded Fortes sound effortless across the entire frequency. Very balanced sounding. I know there are people that think...."I'll upgrade from Fortes to K-horns instead of keeping the Fortes and doing the mod's." Let me tell you from personal experience. That will not be an upgrade and you will have regrets if you do that. I have owned K-horns and I would take SET12's modded Fortes as they are right now any day over the K-horns that I once owned. These modded Fortes sound like each driver had their own amplifier. There was no sign of congestion. They are smooooth! They are full of detail throughout the entire frequency and the entire soundstage (which is the biggest soundstage I have ever heard!) They are full sounding and have dynamics that seem to belie the laws of physics. When you look at these speakers, you certainly will not think that they look very big......but these modded Fortes will beg to differ with you and will win that argument all day long with the sound they throw at you. They are huge sounding! These speakers are no longer Fortes, and I dare say they are no longer Klipsch. I have to believe that they are head and shoulders above and beyond anything Paul Klipsch had ever heard come out of his workshop, and I believe with all my heart that if he could hear SET12's modded Fortes....that he would be as proud of him as I am. These modifications that SET12 has done to these speakers are seriously real upgrades. So many times people will make changes to their audio system hoping for it to be an upgrade in sound and performance and all they end up with is a change in their system.....not necessarily for the better, just something different. I understand that there are financial costs associated with these upgrades, but I will tell you flat out that it will be worth every penny you put into it and many times over. The only regrets that you will have is wondering why you waited so long to do it. If you can't afford to do everything all at once, please do yourself a favor and talk with SET12 and get his opinions on which things to tackle first and which ones make the most sonic benefits for the time and money that you will be willing to put into it. SET12 is a top notch guy and loves to talk about all things audio. He'll steer you in the right direction. And I should probably say that I have no financial interests or ties whatsoever to the proprietors of these various mods. I just want to convey to everyone what I have heard and witnessed so that it may be of help to you. Warmest regards, No Regrets Cheers SET12

I have never found 12AU7's as musical as 12BH7's IMO. If you want life and drama try the 12BH7's most equipment is conservative enough to handle the extra filament current. You just may like what you hear!

My answer to a sub, DIY replacement of my Forte network, the bass took on a serious improvement among other things.

Yea we agree.... not. Find a well renowned audio engineer that does not use his ears as the final piece of test equipment. If measurments can do it all then we would all have indentical audio systems because they would all be built to these magical test results (that DO NOT EXIST). In the end all designers that are worth a shite tune to there personal prefernece to what they like to hear with the good old ears not test results. [Y] Pictured between a highly modified LaScala's are a pair of 1,6 watt SET EML45 amplifiers I designed with $3000 in parts with little more then a Digital Multimeter, calculator and some operating specs that I designed the circuit for. Later some spice simulations were done by an engineer that I work with which proved to be very very good. At first I didn't want this layout the builder came up with but in the end its his satisfaction that counts so I did the best I could with circuit layout and the amplifier was quite. In the end the builder claim the sound is beyond his wildest expectations. I designed it to have authority, breath and recovery. In the end the owner has said "you wouldn't know you were listening to a 1 watt anything" I did get a chance to hear it when I went to AKfest last year and it was astonishingly good and its harmonic presentation to my ears was one of the best that I have ever heard. Even better was when we added bridge tube rectifiers and a second paralleled mains power transformer. It goes to show the ears resolve. SET12

Wish I could feel the same, life would be easy! I'm glad your satisfied! But I sincerely doubt I ever could be with chip amplifiers. I had some King Rex stuff here for a listen. While King Rex was very musical, its harmonic presentation bored me to tears. Its as simple as that. There is far more to audio then just measurements. For many things heard there are no measurements. I do listen to CD mostly in a minimalist system. But would appear that you haven't been exposed to great LP setup's and I don't mean some 1-$2000, great setups can be costly of course so much so I had to design my own. But in the end LP's have been far more informative to my ears even vs some the $10,000 CDP's that I have heard or even my own highly modified CDP. In some systems certainly CD vs LP may very well appear to be closer and of course resulting in the opinion that you have. From my perspective you have only just scratched surface on what can be heard. SET12

My SET amps certainly don't sound thin. Lush and full would be a better description. Bruce I have to second what Bruce says, Mine certainly are far from thin and wimpy, even the bass is very fast, full and authoritative. This is by virtue of design a very low DCR power path with 400 Joules total and highly isolated small quality fast caps. Lush, full and felt in the seat of your pants let alone your chest and thats all from 10 watts/channel! Its not how many watts you have, its what the watt does. There are IMO more lean SET's than lean PP tube amps out there. But it doesn't have to be that way. Best amp I heard if you can find one used maybe 5-$600 is an Antique Sound PP EL34 Integrated model AQ1003DHT. I had one here for repairs, I listened to it and it sounded ok to me but not my cup of tea, not lean but not very full and lush either bass was good. I suggested to owner to replace the 12AU7's with 12BH7's for some added body. I decided to dig through my trunk of used tubes and I found some in excellent condition, I listened and I was completely floored by what I heard. I heard a full, lush, round, holographic like and authoritative sound that I have never heard from an EL34 amplifier. In fact it sounded like I was listening to KT88's literally for dynamics and body. I had a hunch, I looked up the schematic to one of the most sought after EL34 amplifiers around, the famous Marantz 8b which can go for several thousand used. Guess what I saw? A 12BH7 long tail phase inverter, just like in the Antique Sound. No wonder why the 8b is so loved. The AQ1003DHT with the 12BH7's one would have spend a lot of $ to beat it IMO. the amp has been offered with a remote. The Circuit is unique with no global feedback only the Ultra-Linear taps which are a form of local feedback. The amp is gorgeous besides and some have cages I believe to keep kids fingers out of. SET12

Gotcha you John, thanks for the update, often people refer to the driver as the whole horn, magnet, diaphragm assembly that I have converse with but correct me if I'm wrong. And the magnet assembly as the motor. The Forte 1 has a 12in passive using the K-23 active woofer and the 12in KD-13 passive. The Forte II uses the K-25 and the KD-15 passive. You of course use the Tractrix midrange horn and we both use the same tweeter but yours uses the Polymer vs the Phenolic, if I remember correctly from Bob's tests the Phenolic has a flatter response but the Titanium Tweeter is better yet which is what I use. I was using the Crites Autotransformers but I prefer the German C-Cores that I use now much more which are about 50% larger than the Crites and sound much more at ease and more spacious. And being couple with a world class cap like the Duelund Copper VSF is making truly stunning midrange reproduction. SET12

I see what your saying, I was under the impression that the Ti came with a Tractrix horn and not the exponential. So I stand corrected! BTW would that exponential drop into a Forte 1? Maybe not because the Forte 1 has a 12in woofer that the mid sort of contours with it mounting. If it does I would of bought the whole driver of coarse. Boy those Ti's are just awesome, vivid without being bright or analytical, dynamic and highly resolving. Of coarse my presentation may be different from others due to the exotic coupling capacitors and autotransformers I use. But it sounds as though your getting splendid results as well using Bob's networks. Thats good news to. I am thoroughly pleased! Thanks John SET12

Hi, To all even remotely considering the Titanium diaphragm or whole Titanium driver upgrade which is only a dollar more if you have or want the Tractrix Horns. I had an observation in my listening session this morning and as I was sending an e-mail to a friend I thought I should post my comment to him hear as well. I formerly had Bob's new mids in place and really liked what they did for me but these Titaniums are just something else dynamicly. You should also know that my SET amplifiers are pretty powerful running with a massive power supply, thats over 400 Joules of energy for the pair of mono's thats some 4,000uf's @500VDC also I use the massive 28lb Hammond 1642SE's rated at 75watts for my 10 watt/channel SET amplifiers. Recently I had a friend here that we compared some rather pretty James OPT's to my Hammonds the James are rated for 20 watts and they are Potted and maybe 8-9lbs. In our comparison we found the Hammonds to have just as good of bandwidth but with the Hammonds they had a solidy that the James just couldn't touch, needless to say I was happy. Here's my comment to one of my friends who stopped in for a listen. "Don, I'd swear those mids of mine have loosened up even more since you heard them because when I listen to Patrica Barbers "Night Club" I'd swear those piano keys are coming down harder then when I first heard them freshly installed. I mean the lower registers of the piano seemed less dynamic then the upper registers at first and now everything is pretty even across the board, when those piano keys are hit there is a solidly and body that I have never heard in this system with this recording, I have owned the recording for a long time and you'd think I would know it well. That piano Don is so well reproduced IMO it sounds like it is there for real. God it doesn't get much better than that!" SET12

Low to moderate, I would say sure. After my listening session yesterday I heard another development of the Titanium's, my first impression was that right out of the box I felt the Crites to be more dynamic but that maybe understandable as the Ti are so new and stiff. After 10hrs or so at moderate to high volume levels they opened up dynamically more. I noticed this with piano.And after another 5 to 10hrs and yesterday I listened to 5 reference cuts of mine and I'd swear I heard more detail and more bloom with even greater dynamic authority. The resolve of the Ti just bows me over, I'd swear I was hearing the depth of the grain on an analog master tape, it was spooky good. The cool thing about the Ti is its capacity to play substantially louder than a Phenolic. While Bob Crites mids are better than stock the Ti's are in another league. Granted I have some very expensive components coupling the Ti's so YMMV I also think they will require more hrs to get where I have mine at but thats just my opinion. I have just 10 watts of course but people might say what can you do with that? My response would be, Plenty! BTW I'm into Jazz at late night so volumes are low to moderate then if that helps you! Just absolute heaven from my perspective. SET12

And thank you John! Yes the Crites IMO do need some hrs on them, but for the price they are a step up from the stock and at such a reasonable price! While the Titanium's are expensive, for the very serious audio buffs they are a godsend IMO and more than worth their price from the sheer performance. As an amplifier designer I have had discovery moments that where discovered purely by accident or even just unknowingly discovered even, its a cool experience. So, you to noticed how the Titanium handles power with grace and ease as well. I had to go back and purposely induce clipping because I could hardly believe my ears, Its amazing just how far I can push my 10 watt amps with the burst power they have and the Titanium's staying intact, and even if I hear clipping the recovery of the Titanium from the amps clipping is absolutely amazing. Thanks Again John! SET12