Raider

Thanks, very relevant, one of the subs I'm considering. I found out last night that Bestbuy handles SVS. I plan to go audition soon. I've seldom heard anything bad about either SVS or Rythmik, except perhaps when a sub was chosen that was too small for the given space and just didn't have enough output.

Thanks for the feedback. Would I be correct in assuming the SB13 to be similar to the SB3000? I forgot to mention that my budget is about $1k or less, and of course, WAF is at play, so dual subs may be pushing that issue, but I haven't ruled it out . I've considered dual Speedwoofer 10's but am concerned the data doesn't show them to be particularly strong in the very octave I am most interested in. I could do two Rythmik L12's or one F12. I very much like the Rythmic's low distortion servo design, but they lack the remote configuration features of the SVS. What I don't know is whether the SVS can match the low distortion and accuracy the Rythmik are known for. But I suspect the SVS has a bit more output which translates into increased headroom. I may be able to get one of the PFM ICE-Cube12's and try it out in my home. Given the reputation of its designer in studio environments, it may well have the accuracy and output I am looking for. As I found from my car stereo days with subs generally speaking it comes down to the fact that, to borrow a phrase from racing, there is no replacement for displacement. And it comes down to the tradeoffs associated with Hoffman's Iron Law. Each design has its own tradeoffs, and each design is only as good as the execution of that design. My goal is to try to find the sub whose attributes best meet my application. I am replacing a first generation JL Fathom sub. Its amplifier failed after a few years, and I had to order a box for it, pay to have it shipped to JL where they repaired the amp under warranty and paid to ship it back to me. However after only a few years the amp has failed again in the same way. I would have to buy a box again, ship it to JL, and since it's out of warranty, pay $400 to have the amp serviced. So, I'd have to spend about $550-600 at this point to get it going again, but I don't have much confidence that the replacement would last much longer than the first. I'm thinking it's just time to move on to something else, and may try to sell it as is for what I can get out of it. I also considered gutting the amp and using an outboard amp, but couldn't come up with a cost effective solution that didn't resemble a Rube Goldberg project. Last night I stumbled across an SVS 13-Ultra amplifier upgrade on their site that has me scratching my head if perhaps I could replace the Fathom amp with that amp. I would lose the JL autotune function, but gain the remote access of the SVS. But the impedance of the JL sub might not be a match for the SVS amp, lots of unknowns, Dr. Frankensub. Regardless, I appreciate the feedback here from folks with similar preferences in speakers at to what has worked in their situation.

Yes, Audio Systems, couldn't remember the name of the place last night...I haunted there as well, no doubt we may have passed each other at some point. Wow, to have bought a legendary set of speakers from a legendary man in the music industry, priceless. Sorry to hear about John Prine's passing. His loss resonated deeply within songwriters community in Nashville, he was well respected and enjoyed, with a greater reach than many realized. That's the thing about Nashville in that era, it wasn't unusual to run across artists and key figures in the music industry on a day to day basis, and the unwritten rule was that you gave them space and respected their privacy. I had breakfast one day at Pancake Pantry, and Lyle Lovett and Ashley Judd sat at the table nest to us; no one bothered them the whole time they were there.

I have a pair of RP280F's and an RP500C that I am currently using for music and HT. Later I'll add ceiling mounted rear speakers. The house is an open floor plan and the living room opens into an adjacent kitchen/dining area. I love the RF280F, and am amazed at the low end response of these speakers which almost negates the need for a sub... almost. I have been searching for a sub that will basically supplement the lowest octave of these speakers, in the 20 to 40 hz range, maybe as high as 80hz depending on how the crossover points shake out. I really love the clarity and articulation of the towers at all frequencies, and wish to preserve their accuracy and musicality in the lowest octaves with a good sub.down to about 20 hz. I also am looking for something that is sensitive from whisper quiet volumes up to my limit of about 95-100 db max. Many subs that have high output sometimes don't seem to come alive until they are fairly loud. I'd like something articulate even at low volumes. I'm not so concerned with being able to shake the house with HT effects as I am with just having available dynamic range and headroom. In my search so far, I have considered the RSL Speedwoofer 10; Rythmik L12 or F12; the SVS SB200 Pro or SB3000; or PhantomFocus PFM ICE-Cube 12. If anyone has had experience pairing any of these subs with Klipsch towers, please give your experience. I have looked at Klipsch subs as well, but many seem more oriented toward HT than music. I was hoping some folks here could give insight on any Klipsch subs that would work well for my application.. Thanks

In the early 70's, I had an internship at WMOT-FM in Murfreesboro, TN, while studying for a degree in Recording Industry Management at MTSU. The chief engineer at the station also worked in several studios in Nashville, and was a member of the Audio Engineering Society. He invited me to attend an AES meeting with him in Nashville at a studio that had just opened to hear some guy named Paul Klipsch speak. I now realize what a privilege it was to hear a legend in the industry, really just by happenstance on my part. Paul spoke for a time about his speaker line and the engineering behind them, and patiently but directly entertained questions from what was a well educated, experienced, and tough crowd to impress. After he spoke we all went to the control room for a demonstration. The studio had mounted two Klipshorns upside down in the corners of the control room so that the bottom of the speaker was in the upper ceiling corner, and the mid and tweeter horns were aimed to be at ear level for the engineer sitting at the board. Paul had set up the Klipschorns to be driven by a 60 watt Crown amp, and had rigged a power meter to show the actual output to the speakers. All attending were either musicians, producers, or recording engineers who were accustomed to loud playback. Paul put some program material on, and began at a very soft level, and asked everyone as he slowly increased the volume to cover their ears when the volume became uncomfortable for them. As he did the the power meter was covered by a cloth, and when all ears were covered, Paul removed the cloth to reveal that the amp was averaging only about 1-3 watts, only occasionally peaking at 10 watts. His point was that with these speakers, headroom for either the speakers or the amp, would never be an issue in this work environment. I clearly remember the reactions among the group as they considered the implications of this information and experience. Egos in the music industry are common, and it was indeed interesting and entertaining to watch the clash of some of these egos in the room with Paul's no-nonsense, no BS demeanor as he confronted myth with fact and knowledge. After that I acquired a Klipsch belt buckle, which I still have, and also a few of his yellow No Bullshit buttons which sadly got away from me through the years. . A few months later I was in a hi fi shop off Elliston Place in Nashville, and as I walked past a demo room I thought I heard a live piano. I discovered that it was actually a record being played on Klipsch horns and they had just become a dealer. I always wanted to have a pair of these but never had a house conducive to their proper placement. But for the last several years I have enjoyed two different sets of Klipsch Reference and Reference Premier speakers in my home. For years I searched for the right combination of hifi gear and speakers to recreate the clarity and power of the studio systems I was around in college. When I was finally able to get my Klipsch towers, the search stopped. The thing I love the most about Klipsch is the nearly limitless, distortion free headroom I enjoy at all volumes I listen to, from whisper-quiet up to my limit of about 100 db, whether listening to music or HT. And the thing I notice most about my Klipsch speakers, is that I don't notice them. I'm just immediately absorbed within the acoustic experience itself.

Been well, thanks. As far as audio, its been weird for me to buy my system, and just be content with it. Nothing to change, nothing to improve, nothing to tweak, no problems to correct. Haven't had this experience in audio before. I literally haven't known what to do with myself. Thinking about writing a book in totally unrelated area. Had a little foray into car audio, again, where I can't seem to achieve the same audiohomeostasis. Reworking the car now with an Alpine CDA-9887 (implements the Audyssey software in a car- I want to compare with the HarmonKardon approach if and when the JBL MS8 comes out), Sinfoni amps, Dynaudio components, and JLAudio sub, though I may change out the speakers for SEAS Lotus Reference soon. Read a great book lately : "Boyd:The Fighter Pilot that Changed the Art of War". I think guy like you might enjoy this book on a number of levels. Google John Boyd Destruction and Creation to get his paper by that name. Amazing insight, and applicability in a number of contexts, if you enjoy engineering, philosophy, system dynamics, that sort of thing. He came up with a formula that was used to quantify the various performance parameters of fighters, so that their capabilities could be exploited strategically. The formula later was used for development of the F15, F16 and others. It occurred to me while reading about his development of the formula that it would have direct applicability to speaker development, especially comparison of prototypes. If you have time to read the paper and book, I'd find your thoughts on the matter interesting. I would like to come to the pilgrimmage. When is it? Last year I had a conflict with vacation or Scout camp as I recall. If there's no conflict, I'd like to make it. I owe you a beer( or two or three or so) from having picked your brain on subwoofer design and such. What have you been up to? the last time I talked to you, you'd just received a boatload of Rhythmik audio sub amps for some project....

Here's how they stay in business... "It is a well-known fact to the educated consumer that Crutchfield sells at or near retail price for the products they handle, and only deviate from this in the case of discontinued product. The Crutchfield customer recognizes this, and even is willing to conscientiously trade off price advantage because Crutchfield executes other aspects of the total purchase and ownership experience so well. First is customer service that is exhibited in the form of a 30-day money-back guarantee and friendly service during order placement and servicing. Second is the product knowledge which is increasingly important as product becomes more technical in nature. Crutchfield spends the time and resources necessary to properly develop this knowledge base and make it available to the customer, in either written or face-to-face form. Third is the availability of product 24x7. ... The consumer is advantaged, because they can now buy product previously unavailable, or if the product is available can choose between the brick-and-mortar outlet or Crutchfield according to which mix of elements in the purchase experience are most relevant to their situation." For many people, especially in regard to higher end and/or exclusive products, aspects of the purchase experience that revolve around customer service have a tangible value and are worth more than the discount that most of us desire. For these people, their time is literally money, and time wasted on a bad customer experience is far more expensive to them, and they would much rather spend the same time in a productive activity. It's not worth the time or inconvenience to them to have to deal with problems. So Crutchfield's customer service -both before and after the purchase- is not only valuable to them, but critical to close the deal. One of the things that Crutchfield has capitalized on the best is that their business model gives all the brands they carry national footprint in the market. The brick-and-mortar distribution model limits the reach of product to major metropolitan areas for the most part, as that is where there is volume sufficient to cover the overhead and make a profit. Areas outside those metropolitan areas have had little or no access to many of these brands otherwise. So the Crutchfield option for those folks is to pay retail, enjoy Crutchfield's exemplary customer service, have the confidence of the 30 day return (try to match that feature alone at most B&M stores or at the big-box outlets), and have excellent support after the sale. So for people where time is money, and for people that have little or no access to the product otherwise without significant risk) the option of paying retail at Crutchfield is well worth it. The effects of internet and overnight delivery services have effectively minimized margin and collapsed price differentials. In the coming decade, customer service will be the key differentiator between businesses, and a key determinant of success. Businesses that don't understand this are destined to fail. And lip service won't do. Haven't you had a belly full of Fortune 500 companies that win J.D. Power awards, yet you are hard pressed to even talk to a human being without a wait, if at all, to find out about products, or heaven forbid to resolve a problem? Isn't your time worth anything? Customer service will be the key differentiator in business in the coming years. Crutchfield is not only staying in business, but is in a growth mode, with a business model that capitalizes on these emerging realities. By the way, Tire Rack, Cabelo's, LLBean, and Land's End have similar business models, and have met with success in other industries.

Okay. I'll be the guy happily listening to my Klipsch HT system in the meantime. [H]

Highly recommended. I realized the other day that my Klipsch system in my HT room has gone unnoticed for over a year. And that's a great thing. I have a set of RF82 floor standing speakers, an RC62 center, and RS62 for rear surrounds, that I have had for over a year now. Last night I was marveling at the absolute clarity, power, dynamic range, absence of coloration or distortion, and lifelike sound this system produces. And I was listening from the other end of the house, while the family watched a movie in the bonus room. [] The aspect of Klipsch that sets them apart from other speakers is their efficiency. Simply put, efficiency is how loud the speaker can play for a given input signal strength. Effectively this efficiency will allow you to do one of two things, or both. You can either play at a loudness that is comfortable to you with less power from your receiver. Or you can use a higher power receiver which means that the overall system will always be able to play louder than what is required with no strain or distortion. For the dynamics required by Home Theatre material, this quality is invaluable, and will allow you to have a true theatre experience in your home. Indeed many theatres use Klipsch commercial speakers, or other horn-loaded speakers with similar efficiency and dynamic range. This also means for music listening that the dynamic range an power of instruments can be reproduced without strain, and will be very life-like. But the thing I notice the most about my Klipsch system is that I don't notice it. What I notice is the music and material itself. The Klipsch system reproduces these faithfully without drawing attention to itself. I don't notice coloration or distortion that most systems reveal under pressure. Rather you are just immersed in the experience. If you are considering an HT set-up you will do well to consider Klipsch. After over a year with mine, I have had no regrets, would change nothing about them, and have spent many hours of critical listening, enjoying the fact that you can focus on the music and not be distracted by the system. The thing I do miss is the interaction and helpful exchange of ideas I found here during my purchase decision process. But once you get Klipsch, you just begin to enjoy what they do. And how many times can you come here and talk about what a good decision it was, how great they are, and folks not get bored. [|-)] Well, add one more time to that.[] If you are considering Klipsch for Home Theatre (or audiophile use for that matter) don't hesitate, just do it. Best audio decision I have ever made. If only they made car audio speakers....

I think that Klipsch's decision to ally with Crutchfield is a very good long term strategy. I have been active in the car audio realm for some time and have watched with interest the way the internet has impacted that industry. Crutchfield has a long-standing and excellent reputation in that context, and has been visionary -and I don't use that term lightly- in the way it has capitalized on changes in the market that have been driven primarily by the emergence of the internet. What has essentially happened over time is that the information available by way of the internet has laid bare the price structure of many industries, and the average guy knows pretty close, if not exactly, the wholesale or distributors price for goods they purchase. So once this price data is known, those for whom price is the primary or only consideration are free to seek that lowest price in a market where caveat emptor is the watchword. Many will put their money at risk with entities of which they know nothing, and many will lose their money outright. Others will purchase goods at a low price from unauthorized dealers, only to find that when something goes wrong that there is no warranty. I'm always amazed to read on various forums where people knowingly take these risks, suffer the loss, but then voice their dilemma on public forums, often trying to imply that the manufacturer is somehow at fault for their own gullibilty. Those who choose not to be slave to price only, will seek either continued relationship with traditional brick-and-mortar outlets, or will seek to do business with more reputable internet retailers that build accomodation for customer service and warranty fulfillment into their price structure. Crutchfield has positioned itself -through consistent and principled execution of their business plan- as the standard-bearers of customer service and warranty fulfillment in the market. Another interrelated factor at play in today's market that has paralleled the development of the internet, is the evolution of a very advanced logistic infrastructure in the United States. Effectively, this infrastructure allows overnight delivery anywhere in the USA. In the same way that information availability has exposed price structure, the logistics changes have virtually eliminated geographical restrictions and boundaries for most businesses. A business now has a reach far beyond a physical demographic area. Further, where product advertising used to focus on seeking a target market, now the target market seeks the product advertising. Due to the power of the search engines used daily within the information infrastructure of the internet, successful businesses today must by design be at the vortex of information search. Crutchfield has methodically and consistently executed a business plan that has leveraged these various emerging factors. One of the most significant things about the Crutchfield approach, from a manufacturer's perspective, is that a manufacturer's decision to use Crutchfield exclusively for internet sales does not deteriorate their established brick-and-mortar distribution base, and indeed may even facilitate it. It is a well-known fact to the educated consumer that Crutchfield sells at or near retail price for the products they handle, and only deviate from this in the case of discontinued product. The Crutchfield customer recognizes this, and even is willing to conscientiously trade off price advantage because Crutchfield executes other aspects of the total purchase and ownership experience so well. First is customer service that is exhibited in the form of a 30-day money-back guarantee and friendly service during order placement and servicing. Second is the product knowledge which is increasingly important as product becomes more technical in nature. Crutchfield spends the time and resources necessary to properly develop this knowledge base and make it available to the customer, in either written or face-to-face form. Third is the availability of product 24x7. While the brick-and-mortar outlet has to buy product and stock according to forecasts that may or may not be right, a more centralized stock on a much larger scale for a broader geograpical area is easier to manage from a just-in-time availability standpoint, and in some cases can even be done in direct coordination with the manufacturer. These advantages though come at a cost, but Crutchfield has recognized their inherent long-term value, and wisely built that into their cost structure. The brick-and-mortar outlet has the ability to offer some or all these same advantages as they choose, but also can reduce price for those customers. Ironically, I have heard some retailers use Crutchfield prices as a reference point for a discounted price. So internet sales, at a retail price point, do not necessarily undermine the local brick-and-mortar dealer's ability to sell. At the same time, the internet sales through Crutchfield allow the manufacturer to have penetration and footprint in areas that would normally be inaccessible to them because the local demographics do not economically support a brick-and-mortar outlet. The consumer is advantaged, because they can now buy product previously unavailable, or if the product is available can choose between the brick-and-mortar outlet or Crutchfield according to which mix of elements in the purchase experience are most relevant to their situation. By offering internet sales -exclusively- through a single point-of-control internet retailer that has built a legacy and reputation of custormer service, knowledge, and integrity like Crutchfield has, the manufacturer is able to protect price structure for itself, and for its brick-and-mortar distribution network as well. Klipsch is not alone in their recognition of the intrinsic value of a synergistic relationship like this, and joins other major brands like Polk, Infinity, Alpine, JBL, JLAudio, and even Theil in taking advantage of the value of this strategy.

Interesting that I ran across this thread, because earlier today I switched over from Directv to Dishnetwork. I bought a Samsung 56-inch HD DLP about 6 months ago, and have been waiting for DTV to add HD channels to sign up for six months now. I got tired of waiting, and at first decided to just call up DTV and add HD. Unfortunately their system is set up to let you talk to a live human being only if you are signing up for a new account. When following the automatic call director (ACD) instructions I was given a series of voice recognition prompts and questions, and though I tried twice, I was not able to get through the system, because I was unable to answer some of the questions regarding programming. Soooooo, I compared the two at this point in time, and decided to switch over. Here are the reasons, which may or may not apply, or matter, to your particular situation 1) It ticked me off that I have been a customer of DTV for two years now, and I was not afforded the opportunity to talk to a representative without being forced through their ACD. The catch-22: couldn't answer all the ACD questions without first talking to a sales rep to ferrent out what I needed, and couldn't get to a sales rep because I couldn't answer all the right questions. They also incorrectly assume that I know all their lingo, jargon, and trade names for products, as though DTV is my whole life or something. 2) DTV wanted to charge me $200 for the PVR. Dishnetwork gave it free. The Dish PVR had more recording capacity. The Dishnetwork PVR also has the ability to allow you to add an EXTERNAL drive of your choice to their PVR if you need more capacity ($40 on-time charge applies for this capability, probably software-activated). For you guys building video/music libraries this may be a big deal. Paired with the already noted ability to record music using Dishnetwork's PVR it might be a show-stopper for some folks, allowing integration with existing music servers and systems. 3) Dish gave me: a)HD free for the first six-months on an 18-month contract ($20 thereafter) On site service plan is free for the first 12 months (6 bucks thereafter) c) Installation is free. d) Sign-up fee is free after rebate. e) HBO and Cinemax free for the first 3 months. 4) Having had Dishnetwork for a few years prior to going to Direct, both my wife and myself like the egonomics, logic flow, and operation of the Dish menu significantly better. 5) Dish had 18 non local HD channels vs DTV's 8. Both had HD local channels. So I had a known quantity of the channels we watch the most - already available NOW, vs. continued uncertain promises by DTV of when and what they would have. The Dish guy told me that the majority of the DTV additional 100 channels are local HD channels, not nationwide HD channels. The DTV guy I talked to when I called to disconnect said they would all be non-local. Not sure who to believe here, but DTV has given me empty promises for months. Try and get a straight answer about exactly what additional channels are going to be offered, and then exactly when they will be available. All you get is vague language about future possibilities. When I called DTV to disconnect things got interesting. First I noticed that if you either are calling for new service, or calling to discontinue service, its easy to get a human to talk to. If you're trying to upgrade the service you have, good luck. I can understand trying to cut costs by allowing those who prefer to sign themselves up on-line, but the on-line service should be comprehensive, and should be offered as an option, and not forced on you. The guy at DTV wanted to know why I was leaving, and I told him all the above. He said that he could check my history and possibly get the $200 PVR charge waivered. But its still not as good a PVR, has no external drive, and requires two of the pigtails if you have dual feed. He also tried to tell me about how many channels they are going to have, but again, its very vague as to what and when. Why not offer these advantages to a current customer with a known track record with no hassle, no problem, rather than trying to bail out the boat once its already sinking? Most any business will tell you that it costs far more to get a customer than to retain one. My corporation places a premium on minimizing "churn" and spends a lot of money to accomplish and emphasize the importance of this concept. (Apparently no-one has told Dish or DTV about this phenomenon, because they both essentially offer better packages to new customers than to existing ones.) This is a stupid way to do business. And sadly, with the way these carriers choose to do business, if you want HD, probably the best thing to do is switch carriers and take advantage of the new customer offers. Ironically, in some cases you might actually be better off paying early termination penalties and switch, than to absorb the upfront cost of an upgrade to stay where you are! Somewhere there's some gleefully happy beancounter who showed these corporations how much they could save by virtually forcing the customer to do virtual business with them. Unfortunately he didn't -and can't - as easily show them how much business they lose by forcing these options. Similarly many companies are forcing direct billing on parties that don't want it. How to you quantify and calculate the cost/benefit of a customer that is no longer there? Personal service will be the key differentiator for corporations to remain competitive, as cost differences diminish. Personal service will be THE key differentiator for success in the marketplace in the next decade. I thought this info might be helpful to others considering HD. In my case I wound up with the HD channels I wanted, at a lower monthly cost, with no up-front cost with Dishnetwork. YMMV. But then I may miss out on alllllll those new vapor-HD channels, if and when they are ever actually offered, and if they aren't just local channels for somewhere that I don't live, lol. In the meantime, I'm, good for now.

Especially when you have rednecks in big business.

It's always been all about the money, to a degree. In the seventies the money was folks lining up with their ten to twenty bucks, standing in line hours ahead of time, after finding out about the concert in the local papers or local radio stations. In 07 there is a global economy, internet, cable, satellite, cell phones, with advertising exploiting each to their fullest advantage, marketing to a much more mobile and affluent society. As always with supply and demand, pricing will be what the market will bear. And its a big market now. The notable exception has been country music, where some artists/promoters have chosen very delliberately to continue to hold ticket prices for their core base. As a result, in many ways Country concerts in this decade have become what Rock concerts were in decades past. In both eras, concerts have been marketed to the demographic targeted within the reach of that promotion. Communications in this era however have - literally- virtually destroyed conventional geographic economic barriers and boundaries. You see the same principle in many areas of business on the net. A small niche market that would not be viable within a local demographic can have a national or even world-wide reach that brings a viability previously unreachable. (In example, how much trouble is it to locate a used Klipschorn now? Could you have done so as easily in your local market only even a decade ago? In rural Montana?) Development of communication networks has been simultaneously paralleled by the development of overnight and just-in-time logistics and delivery networks, with a similar collapse of previous geographic and time barriers. Development of the communications and logistics networks have catalytically fueled each other. One practical restraint that still remains and limits some product distribution is whether the product can be economically shipped due to size or weight. (Once you find that set of used Klipschorns or RF83's, can they be affordably shipped?) So concerts are a sort of collateral damage of the convergence of these dynamics. Another casualty is creativity. As marketing has become more and more the domain of really big business, artists on the edge of the envelope from which new ideas and genres typically emerge, are commercially marginalized instead of celebrated. They don't conform to the business model that is structured to minimize risk. One thing I have observed in both eras is this: for every commercially viable band or artist, there are hundreds if not thousands of artists and musicians that are equally talented, but haven't been able to reach a threshold of commercial viability necessary to give widespread distribution to their creativity and talent. Some musicians I know here are exploiting technology to their advantage. I was surprised to learn that many now do virtual "studio" work on a contract or consulting basis. A producer may even solicit a number of musicians for their particular interpretation, or a number of interpretations from the same artist, and chose from among them. Communication from the control room to the studio can now be via CD/DVD mailing, internet, or even wireless. I believe that the next frontier for the music industry (visual media too) is to successfully apply the principles observed in the distribution of niche physical product to the distribution of musical creativity. Sort of a MySpace meets iTunes network. All of a sudden that Rap-Country-Polka fusion band (unplugged) that flounders locally, with a world-wide reach becomes economically viable. When this happens there will be opportunity for it to be less about the money and more about the music again.

Happy Birthday Doc: Thanks for all the advice and help you've given me this year, for your contributions to the forum, and mostly your enthusiasm. I want to be just like you when I grow up. Hey wait - I AM grown up. Musta missed the mark somewhere along the way :\ Anyway, Happy Birthday. If you're ever through Nashville give me a holler. Beer's on me.

The Black Again probably works well for that application as far as appearance goes, but you may want to consider all aspects of the product before you use it. I have used it for auto detailing. Maybe not a problem for how you've used it. But a word of caution, as it may be a big one for some... Many products like these (there is another product called Back-to-Black that might be confused with Black Again) contain signicant amounts of silicone. Many body shops will refuse to try to paint a part that has been treated with these products, because trace amounts always remain even after surface prep, and this can lead to cracking, spider-webbing, diificulty with adhesion, and other such problems. If used on a porous surface like wood, the silicone would be even more difficult to remove. For those who might desire to refinish the speaker at some point, or have to in the case of damage (gasp), this may make the finish difficult to deal with or behave uncharacteristically.

Wow, what a timely thread.... Just yesterday booked a trip for the family (wife, daughter 8, son 11) yesterday. Thanks for all the feedback, even those who like other parks better (there's always next year's vacation!). We will have 4 days at Epcot/Disney/MGM and four days at Universal/Seaworld. Any recommendations for the latter appreciated as well.

I remember when the first album came out there were rumors that Boston had taken most of the popular rock songs and used a computer to analyze them, and used the output to produce the album. ( Ironically,with the computing power avaliable today, pattern and trending applications available, you could probably actually do something like this these days.) The rumor I think was really an obtuse way of recognizing how tight and focused the first album was right out of the gate as a first recording, and explaining the fact that it was one of those rare albums that really didn't have a weak cut on it; basically from a band no one had heard of before. I've noticed that many of the really classic bands have a way of executing the very basic elements in a way that creates a sound much fuller than it should be; the Stones, ZZTop, and Boston come to mind in example.

Good to hear. I just booked a trip today for the family. I'll try to check it out as close as I can.

With your "arsenal" of subs you could pull off a pretty convincing reproduction of artillery as an alarm Its worth reiterating that the best lock is worthless without reinforcement of the jamb and area around the door. I'm figuring that you have that covered, with carefully overengineered excess.

Interesting video, no doubt has made the lock folks a lot of money (I have sometimes wondered if that is actually the true source of the video). While it certainly raises some valid concerns, it doesn't necessarily reflect statistical probability of crimes committed. In eighteen years as a Sheriff's Deputy I took hundreds of reports on B&E's and burglaries of homes. The favored method of entry in most cases: a size twelve lock pick placed strategically near the lock and deadbolt, causing the jamb to come apart or separate. The next two favorites were a wrecking bar (12" favored because its easy to conceal and is effective against unforeseen dogs) or a large pair of channel locks to twist the doorknob assembly out of the door. Thieves have no respect for your property except what they want to steal, and also have no qualms about destroying your property to get to your valuables. And speed is of the essence for most. Forget glamorized Italian-Job lock-picking hollywood thieves. You are infinitely more likely to be victimized by thieves that are unskilled and prefer brute force to finesse. They are for the most part unmotivated and too lazy to learn a skill which is why they choose to be thieves instead. Most favorite targets of opportunity: Cash, guns, and whatever the hot electronic or techie device is at the moment. Jewelry is also common, but I saw many instances where costume jewelry was taken instead of real jewelry because they didn't know enough to know the difference. The notable exception to the brute force principal is auto thieves, who learn to use a slim jim because breaking the window reduces the value of the vehicle and increases the chances of getting spotted and caught. But once inside the ignition is fair game for destruction. Majority of break-ins happen during the day for the simple reasons that there is less likelihood of being caught with most people being away at work, but also for the very real reason that in most states the penalties are much more severe if the crime is committed after dark. The lawmakers' rationale (oxymoron?) being that the propensity for violence against a homeowner escalates after dark. My observations were that the most effective deterents against theft are, in no particular order, good neighbors or a neighborhood watch that will keep an eye on your place, a good dog, light to discourage night theft and vandalism, paying attention to everything that goes on around you. Also consider that the neighborhood busybody may actually be your best ally. One of the best principles to remember is simply, "Out of sight, out of mind". I am not a particularly an advocate of alarms either. In eighteen years, averaging an alarm call per shift, I only responded to one case where the alarm actually indicated a break-in. The rest of the alarms were false alarms. Most municipalities do not allow emergency response to alarms, and indeed many have started charging the alarm companies/ owners for response to alarms over a threshold amount. On the other hand we did have a rash of night-time break-ins for a while, and several were thwarted by activation of a panic alarm by the homeowner. Stake-outs were a more effective deterent however . I always found it interesting that so many, many times while taking reports, the victims would say something like, "I bet this was a bunch of kids that did this". Its as if people can't allow themselves to believe that a grown person would make a willing and conscious decision to victimize them. They can. They do. One thing I cannot emphasize enough is this. Always trust your gut. ALWAYS TRUST YOUR GUT. I don't know how many times the victims of crimes have told me that they thought something wasn't right about a situation but instead of acting on that feeling they rationalized it away or ignored it. If you see anything suspicious call the Police. They can only be in so many places at a time, and you know alot more about what is normal for your neighborhood than they can. When in doubt call. It is irritating to hear people apologize for calling you when they see something suspicious, when most police appreciate the call. Its your tax dollar. Get your money's worth. Just my perspective, my experience, my take on the subject FWIW. I hope something here may help you with a more effective personal protection strategy.

On my receiver, the LFE sends everything below the selected threshold frequency to the sub (it's a low pass filter) regardless of how the other speakers are set. Setting the speakers to "small" sends everything above the selected threshold frequency to the speaker (it's a high pass filter complementary to the low pass). Setting the speakers to "large" sends all frequencies to the speaker with no filtering. Using the "small" setting can clean up the sound if you have limited power and headroom, or if your speakers don't handle really low frequencies well. I have found by trial and error, that you might want to try different combinations of both settings for mains, center, and surrounds. Due to the placement of the speakers in the room and their interaction with both the subwoofer and the room, you may hear subtle differences in the mid bass and bass response, as you may have either cancellation or reinforcement at certain frequencies. This is a function of wavelength between the speakers, relative to your listening position. I noticed the biggest differences in the mid bass coherence. In some cases you may find that even though a speaker is capable of full range response, the aggregate system response of all the speakers in unison may be better with that speaker set to "small".

I think we're both right. Low pass filter - passes the lows, filters out the highs. High pass filter - passes the highs, filters out the lows. Low pass filters highs. High pass filters lows.

Wow, you've got a lot to look forward to. The low-pass filter or crossover allows material below the frequency you select to pass to the subwoofer to be reproduced. You will likely be using the LFE output on your AV Receiver so this will be turned off. JL included this feature for those who use the sub with a 2-channel system. The E.L.F. is not like the loudness feature on an amp. It is designed to allow you to better tune the sub to your room, and or to your taste. It increases of decrease the output below 25 hz.

I have an F112 that I recently purchased to use with my RF82/RC62/RS62 system. I consider both the Klipsch system and the JL Audio sub to be the best audio purchases I have made. Both represent to me an exceptionally high VALUE, even though both purchases are relatively expensive by most standards. Normally you get that sick feeling in your stomach after a major purchase, wondering if you made the best decision, but I never have. In fact every time I enjoy my system I feel that I am blessed to be able to enjoy these world-class products. As a student of design, I am continually impressed by the elegant simplicity of both designs, as well as the finish and quality. I think a Klipsch system with a JL sub is sort of like the audio equivalent of a 911 and an M5. The efficiency of the Klipsch system and the immense headroom of the JL make a great complement. To me the F112 just extends the power, clarity and musicality of the Klipsch system down to the threshold of hearing. I has both power and musicality, equally adept at both music and home theatre. I don't think the JL outclasses the Klipsch at all, because I think so highly of the Klipsch system.

What mounting systems are folks using for these speakers? I can't find any pictures of the rear of these speakers to know what to plan for. I'm trying to decide between the two, and mounting might make a difference. Ideally, I would like a recessed fixture in the drywall, like an outlet, that would allow the speaker to be mounted flush with the wall. I am also looking for a mount that would allow these to be similarly mounted to the angled ceiling of my bonus room. Any help or suggestions appreciated.