djk

Originally posted by tblasing: That's why I'm thinking for the future with upgrades for this set-up. Someday I hope to find a Carver C-4000 that's "really" rack mountable and no just with the grab handles. Then a like Carver 1.5t amp, those were internally wired with Monster Cable. Tom, I have had the C-4000, C1, C2, M400T, M1.0T, M1.5T and others.The C1 and M1.0T are the best sounding.They also have the most potential for upgrading parts.I currently own modified McIntosh but it is kind of pricey even 20 years old like my stuff is.

quote: Originally posted by DPonder: I have bi-wired and ran without b-plugs. To me and others I have never heard a difference. If you say you can hear one I'm not gonna tell you that you can't, more power to you. But if our hearing is superior to test equipment...then why use test equipment? This is a largely debatable subject and I can think of a lot of other places I would try to make significant audible changes then in what type of b-plugs I'm using. And could you tell me what you mean by " sound better on the back of the speaker "? Locking B-plugs sound better on the back of the speaker than non-locking B-plugs.The reason is simple.They don't vibrate.I use no plugs on the back of my speakers.I use no binding posts either.The speaker wire is soldered to the networks.The push on connectors on the ends of the network wires have been cut off and the wire soldered on to the drivers.None of the Klipsch speakers made before 1982 used push on connectors on the drivers or B-plugs on the networks.The wire was soldered directly to the drivers and spade lugs with screws were used for connections that had to be removable.I have over $7M in test equipment in my lab at work and still don't have the equipment that can measure everything that I can hear.I am always at a loss with that to say to audio athiests.I used to think that since I could hear the differences in amplifiers,cd players,wire and cables,that everbody else could too.About 15 years ago I found out I was wrong.If you can't hear the difference in B-plugs,fine.Even if you can't hear, the connectors I recommended cost less, are more durable, are safer (dead front design), cannot be hooked up backwards, and work better with larger wires.They were designed for audio.B-plugs were not.

quote: Originally posted by DPonder: I would like to hear from someone that could hear a difference when they replaced the clips with expensive "hi-end" cables. You might be able to catch it on an oscilloscope in an anechoic chamber but the human ear isn't quit that sensitive. I still haven't got a clear picture on the expandable banana plugs. Are you wanting to split the cable into 2 pairs of B-Plugs so as to do away with the clips? And yep that's coated brass your lookin at. I can hear the difference in the high end B-plugs.The locking ones sound better on the back of the speaker than the non-locking ones.On the other hand NO B-plug sounds better than ANY B-plug I have ever heard.And you have it backwards.You can't catch it on an oscilloscope but you can hear it.Your hearing is a lot more sensitive than any test equipment.If you insist on using a connector for the sake of convenience then I recommend the Neutrik Speakon NL4.They sound better than any B-plug and handle garden hose sized wire if need be.A set of two male and two female connectors will set you back about $13 at a pro music shop.These allow bi-wiring or bi-amping with one connector.The NL8 series supports up to eight connections.

The backs don't come off Cornwall IIs.I imagine you have a Cornwall 1&2/3 with the K77M/K52H/33E The 1980 Cornwall had K77M/K55V/K33E The Cornwall 1&1/3 had K77M/K51V/K33E The Cornwall II had K79K/K57/K34E with a non-removable back.Of course there were four networks and three mid horns too. Earlier models were different too.I guess that the wire from your tweeter is white zip cord with spade lugs at the network end and soldered to the tweeter.On axis the K52H started to gently roll off above 3.5Khz and went up to 15Khz and conked out.Klipsch actually sold some PA models with no tweeter using this driver.I would guess that an earlier owner with an ear-bleeder amp or CD player disconnected them.

The DH2 is the worst sounding of the current DH1,2,3 lineup.Klipsch uses the predecessor of the DH2, the DH1506, in a couple of the pro models.

It may be more of a perspective thing.Is the glass half empty or is it half full? The Heresy started rolling at 70hz and was 5dB down at 50hz.The DC300A was very lean and tight sounding.It was also bright as all get out and all that feedback made record scratches and ticks seem to go on forever.The DC300A + Heresy were not a pleasant sounding duo.I would bridge the DC300A and drive a sub with it and buy something different for the Klipsch.

>>DJK - -how do you use it? What does is do that you can see on a spectrum analyzer? mdeneen >>It is for a military radio.If I tell you more they may have to send someone out to kill you(I always loved that line from Top Gun).I have a piece of copper foil about the size of an "O" stuck on the end of a plastic stick.I push it around on a circuit board trace that is about 17mills wide and watch the response of the amplifier change by as much as 3dB moving it less than 1/4".The spectrum analyzer is to watch for distortion sidebands at +/- 161Mhz from Fo that show up at -40*C.Did I mention the magnets? There is a "Y" junction on the circuit board and the magnets make sure the signal always turns left at the "Y".When my employer can't find tweek oriented audio people to work on this thing he usually looks for a voodoo practitioner. >>I use the foil on my amps and it does make a difference. My feet are warmer, I love my wife nearly 10% more and the dog seems happier. jwgorman >>I get it.You are using the foil as a tube cage so you can put your feet on the amp.The dog ate the hamburger the foil was wrapped around.And the wife is happy you got rid of the freezer burned hamburger. >>BobG Now, about that foil under your hat... >>I work in a 8 x 8 x 8 room lined with copper screen.The foil goes into the trousers thank you.

I use bits of foil in my amplifiers all the time.It can really make a big difference.I can prove it too with a spectrum analyzer.I should mention that my amplifiers run at 1,500,000,000hz(L-band).

Klipschorns made after 1982 have two fuse holders on the input panel.This is behind the grill on the left side near the bottom of the speaker.Pull the entire speaker away from the wall.You may need help as they weigh 200+ lbs.Push the fuseholder cap in and give a quarter turn.Use an AGC3A or smaller value.These may be obtained at Radio Shack.Note that the high frequency fuse is a smaller value.Do not mix.

I was a Crown and Klipsch dealer in the DC300A era.DC300A + Heresy = broken glass highs and no bass.

Prior to the introduction of the Cornwall II in 1986 the K/B/LS/CW all used the K33 woofer.The Cornwall II used the K34.The difference between a K33 and K34 is the mounting gasket.If you run the numbers below in BassBox you get 101.5dB/2.83V/1M with the optimum vented box being 6.65 cu ft with an Fb=34hz and F3=38.7hz .Gee,isn't that how big a Cornwall is and isn't that how efficent it is and isn't that how low Klipsch claims it goes? The numbers Klipsch publishes for the K33 are BOGUS.Work it out for yourself. 01-SPEC 15162 02-PART # K-33 03-MODEL # 1520F5637 04-DATE 11/30/92 05-RE OHMS 3.39 06-LE MH .96 07-QM 7.39 08-QE .410 09-QT .390 10-XMAX MM 8.20 11-BL TM 11.88 12-EFF % 2.91 13-FS HZ 34.46 14-MMS GMS 78.59 15-CMS mm/N .2714 16-RMS NS/M 2.3037 17-VAS LTRS 301.66 18-SD SCM 889.59 19-EBP 84.4 20-SPL dB 96.6

The numbers I gave should apply to your 1978 K22.The bulk of the Heresy manufacture used this Eminence woofer.Most were not marked -E but had a date code starting with 67-xxxx 137- was CTS and 649- was EV.The TS parameters I gave would not apply to non-Eminence drivers.The K22K was produced in house by Klipsch for replacement use after the original Heresy was discontinued for the Heresy II.It looks quite different than the Eminence and I am sure has different TS parameters too.While sealed box designs are quite tolerant of different parameters vented designs are not.

The original Heresy used a K22E.The Eminence specification number for this was the 12447.Fs=33hz Qm=4.61 Qe=.38 Qts=.35 Vas=6.02 cu ft Sd=86.6" X-max=.08" SPL=94.8dB/2.83V Re=6.8 Le=1.02 Pe=100 BL=15 For a small box 3 cu ft with an Fb=35.6hz is good.For a large box 4.5 cu ft with an Fb=31.6 is good.A 4.5 cu ft box also gives a Qtc=.5 when sealed.This is about the size of a Chorus.While the X-max is quite short it seems adequate for amps up to about 150 watts.

No Heath right now.Used to own an AA-1400.

quote: Originally posted by Marty65: JCturbo, I using a Carver C-l pre-amp and a Heathkit AA-1800 250 watt amplifier Dan Are you interested in selling the Heathkit? I always wanted an AA-1800.

D style have no grills and the corners are butt-jointed with exposed ply edges.The CII have a much better tweeter.The bass and mids sound substantially the same.

>>John Warren :Shocklate-Looking at the RCA unit, a 40Hz horn radiating in free space needs 62 sq. ft mouth, positioned at center of floor requires a 31 sq. ft., flat against a wall needs 15 sq. ft and in corner a 7.5 sq. ft. The horn pictured has a mouth area of 44 sq. ft. so maybe designed for floor placement(?).<< djk: In a theater behind the screen they usually had wings installed to the sides.Otherwise they sat on the floor.Bruce Edgar used to have a pair of these too.I have a picture of Bob Heil doing sound for the WHO with only two of these per side,a dozen 4560,two dozen HF horns that look like fiberglass 511B,and only two pair of EV T35.>>Shock-Late: I'm quite amazed the K33E has a 4Ohms coil (I always thought it was 8 Ohms, just has so many high efficiency speakers, or even 16... My x-overs are of the vintage AA type, thus designed for the K33, not K33E. Was the K33 4 ohms too?? And considering my woofers are 8 ohms, what's the actual cut-off frequency with the AA network? If it's 800Hz it's quite OK for a short time, but if it's 200Hz I'll install new inductors for the woofers tomorrow morning!! I hate to know there might be a "hole" in the sound....gasp!!!!<< djk: All the K33 for the AA network were 4 ohms.The minimum impedance is actually about 5.5 ohms around 250hz.Many times you will find they work ok on the 8 ohm tap.When you change the woofer inductor to 5mH with the EV15L the midrange will sound smoother and you will get a little better bass.It is not a big deal but it is something you want to do.

>>Shock-Late OK OK now it already looks quite simpler ;-). But what i was wondering about the 38Hz filter is WHY do I need it? Is that to prevent the woofer to "flap" because of the ported enclosure, and so reducing the risk for him to hit the mounting board? What about using a second gasket to keep it slightly furter from the board?<< djk: The Qts of the EV15L is so low it is not flat.The filter makes it flat and is carefully calculated to do so.B&W uses this same type of filter in their 800, 801,802,808 series loudspeakers as does Thiel in the 3.5 and EV in their Sentry III studio monitor and their Interface A,D,and others.The filter also protects the speaker from subsonic frequencies.And a second gasket should be fitted to the EV15L. >>Because I spent a lot of time to get the amp that would have the simplest path from input to output, and thus the more transparent sound, and I'm also using a (reasonably) "expensive" interconnect for the same reason. Maybe it would be a shame to use any active or passive filter in the path....(but correct me if I'm wrong).<< djk:The filter can be implemented in most power amps by changing the value of the input coupling cap and adding one other passive part.Or changing the output coupling cap in your cd player and adding one other passive part.Simple and transparent.>>What would happen without the 38Hz HP filter?<< djk: Less bass,more phase shift.When you correct the frequency response to flat you also reduce phase shift at the same time.>> Also, don't yo loose the advantages of horn-loading (no distortion, no "slow bass",...) when you port the enclosure?<< djk: The LaScala is a 100hz horn.Actually they are direct radiators with help from horn loading.Its performance as a horn above 100hz is not impaired.>>And last but not least, why do you change the woofer inductor? Is that because of the different specs of the EV15L, or because of the ported enclosure?<< djk: Three reasons.The network is set up for a K33E which has a 4 ohm voice coil and the EV15L is 8 ohms.The EV15L is too loud.The resistor raises the Qes to work right in this design.>>I think I'll keep my EV15L to try this mod, anyway. Sounds tempting to get deeper bass. many thanks, djk, for helping me becoming less dumb ;-))Frans Shock-Late: I opened my scalas once again and this time I understood why I got a shy bass. I took one tesla woofer out to examine it closer. And it happens it has the same look as a JBL D130, you know with the extra-hard edge, exponential cone profil and aluminium dust caps. It's apparently a model desiged to be used as wide-bandwith loudspeaker, but with a very short bass just as the JBL D130. Don't know who had the stupid idea to use it in a bass horn....<< djk: It sounds like they would work well in a real bass horn. http://home.att.net/~lkalin/ Michael is standing in front of a real 40hz bass horn.This is an RCA Olson bin.Sometimes called a Shearer horn.The 300hz 3x6 multicell high frequency horn on top has a larger mouth than a LaScala does.I used to own a pair of these.The bottoms are 80" tall and 80" wide. http://www.audioheritage.org/products/lansing/shearer_horn.htm >>That said, these speakers are superb and I think I'll sell them for a good price, as they're in very good condition. Then I thought "there's no reason my EV work worse" and after fitting one in my Scala it appea rs to give more bass, even without mods...it's not fabulous, but already a lot better. At least I hear some bass now. I'll be able to listen to some music while I build the modified tops .<< djk: Good for you! Please fit a second gasket to the EV15L soon.

Nobody is as helpless as you claim to be! Follow the input of the crossover to the woofer.It only goes through one part.That is the one you change.A 38hz filter is a 38hz filter.It is just another black box.You probably have black boxes called cd player,preamp,and power amp.The black box called 38hz filter can go anywhere in front of the power amp black box.That means it could go between the cd box and the preamp box or between the preamp box and the power amp box.It is not rocket science.There are no enclosure changes.You are making a simple six sided box the same size as the original home LaScala top.Take out the parts from your beat up tops that have extra holes from the piezos and install them in the new tops.The really,really hard part is remembering to install a pair of ports in the back of the new tops.Any lumberyard can cut the boards and the PVC pipe for the ports for you.A sheet of plywood is $30.The parts for the 38hz filter about the same.A pair of 5mH about $15.Or you could spend for a pair of K33E.The EV15L with the mods will sound better than the K33E.If you don't do the mods the K33E will sound better.I think you said the pair of K33E will cost $1000 locally?

djk Fast Newbie Posts: 66 From:cedar rapids, ia, usa Registered: Sep 2000 posted 12-12-2000 03:47 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The K43 will have quite a bit less bass below 70hz than the K33 in a stock Belle.This is due to the lower Qts.The lower Qts will also cause the Belle to have more output above 200hz.While I have converted many LaScala to the K43 and vented them to 31hz I have not done so with the Belle.It might be easier to do this to a Belle as there is more room for the woofer frame. http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/HUG/messages/4664.html you can go backwards to the root and read the whole thread. To use an EV15L make new tops the same size as a home LaScala, 2' x 2' x 1'.Since yours have a bunch of holes from the piezo tweeters you were going to have to do something anyway.Port the new box out the back with two 4" dia 5.5" long ports.This back must be removable.Remove the bottom door from the bass cabinet and turn it up side down.Bolt the new top on.The new top must have an opening that matches up with the opening in the bass cabinet.Change the woofer inductor to 5mH.Use a 38hz two pole high pass filter with a Q of two in front of the power amp.This will be maximally flat with an F3=38hz and the woofer matched in level with the other drivers with an Rg=1R5 Rg is the sum of the DRC of the woofer inductor,speaker wire,and amplifier output impedance.If the woofer inductor is an air core type of 18~20 gauge you will be ok.If you buy an expensive large gauge inductor you will just have to put a resistor in series with it.One sheet of 4' x 8' will make two tops.The screw holes for the woofer have metal insert threads and are size 10-32 (SAE).

quote: Originally posted by Shock-Late: I'd like to know if there's any risk of losing/breaking something when opening the door to access the woofer. I'd like to do it when I get mine, to verify the condition of the woofer, but I won't do it if i'm not sure it is 100% safe. Thanks for your help. Shock-Late (but you can call me Frans) Hello Frans! Nothing will break.You may need to replace the gasket.Foam weather-stripping tape works well.Available at building centers and hardware stores.

They look like EV SP12B/C.They work best in a small sealed box like a Heresy.The Qts is way too high to port.For an old Heresy I would completely fill the box with fiberglass.The Qtc=1.0 F3=68hz No=1.9% so it is about 1dB more efficent than a K22E.

"MacArthur Park" by Donna Summers will make most normal people want to curl up on the floor and die.

quote: Originally posted by JLHasqui: Nice work William. Keep us updated on your progress. I am very interested in your results because I am working on a La Scala based system too. It will be a 2-way full size version. I know how much you guys like to look at DIY stuff so here are some photos of my version of the 300Hz Edgar salad bowl tractrix horns. And wife never thought I would get any use out of that lathe. I showed her! The driver that is attached to them is a vintage Altec 288C. Have a good look. When I get closer to the end I will post a new topic and have a show and tell session. Later guys See the photos at the following address http://www.klipsch.com/ubb/uploads/288saladbowl.jpg and http://www.klipsch.com/ubb/uploads/288saladbowl2.jpg JLHasqui Your horn looks great.Of course it is not an Altec 288C.With the ceramic magnet and Tangerine phase plug it is much newer.Looks like a 288K but it could be a 299 or 291.Any of these are better than a 288C.If the sticker is missing off the back cover get the number off the diaphragm and we will be able to determine the model and impedance for you.

quote: Originally posted by John Albright: My rear La Scalas need to go in to the cabinet shop for refinishing. When I do it, I want to stiffen the bass horn at the same time. I will add a horizontal brace acros the mouth extending back to the "notch". I've been thinking that adding a 2' x 2' x 3/4" plate to the outside back of the bass horn attached with glue and screws would add mass and stiffness and reduce resonance. Have any of you done similar mods? Will this in fact add enough stiffness to control the bass horn's resonance, or is it wasted effort? John The back is braced by the internal horn ramps.The sides are in dire need of bracing.Cut to fit 1"x3"x2' pieces of hardwood,maple is a good choice.Two braces per side glued and screwed on edge from front to back.The dimensions vary depending upon the thickness of the plywood your LaScala's were made from,it could be 2.75" or 3" wide back by the doghouse.If you don't want to use screws through the sides cut the braces at 2.5" and pound a wedge in between the brace and the doghouse in the back and clamp the front.Notch the doghouse and run a brace from side to side.Trying to cut the brace at an angle and then glue the end grain to the doghouse won't hold and is a waste of time.Notch it.The 1"x3" on edge will add more stiffness than an extra thickness of 3/4" will.