JCHout

I could be wrong, but I thought the problem was only with certain receivers and DTS-HD MA tracks on certain Blu-ray movies. This is the first I have heard that it was on any other DTS track. It is confirmed that certain receivers do not have the problem such as Pioneer brands, but it is more brands than Yamaha. I would recommend that if anybody has a Blu-ray player that they definately do a search at avsforums.com to verify that you do not need a firmware upgrade.

I can say without any question that all Blu-ray movies look better than that of upconverted standard def DVDs. I can't say that for a fact about HD-DVD, but I bet it is true for that format as well. There are several movies with poor HD transfers. The first release of The Fifth Element (a movie that I hate) and Dracula, but both are still better than the DVD. The vast, vast majority of Blu-rays just blow the DVDs completely out of the water. The other thing that reviewers tend to neglect is the higher quality of the sound on HD disks and bitrate. Finally, many newer TVs can have a refresh rate in integrals of 24p, that do mimic the quality of film. This is only available on HD media, and the TV must be able to accept 1080p signals. As to the original post, yes, Blu-ray has won. I am sorry to those that bought into HD-DVD, but there will be one format by the end of 2008. I tried to tell people about the upcoming Warner switch, but whther you like it or not, Universal and Paramount are getting tons of pressure to release in Blu-ray, and their window for being exclusive to HD-DVD is about to close. If you have questions about it, pay close attention to their press releases. At no time do they say that they will not be exclusive to HD-DVD, only that they continue to support it. For those of you out of the loop, by June of 2008, Warner, MGM, Sony, Disney, Fox, HBO, National Geographic, New Line, and several smaller studios will be Blu-ray exclusive. BBC currently releases in both formats. Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks are the only HD-DVD studios. Winesteins have not committed to either for the most part, and Paramount's contract lasts only through the end of 2008 and some believe they have an out if Warner switches which they did.

Man, I got to say, you guys can talk about bandwidth, disc capacity, and all that other stuff until you are blue in the face, but people are always going to want the physical media. Some many not, true, but many will. I just cannot imagine opening up a present of Lawrence of Arabia on Christmas and it be a download. Give me the Blu-ray, and, yes, it will be on Blu-ray. It is time to get off the fence now and get a player.

Say, CECAA850, I would be really interested in how your Blu-ray and HD-DVD players compare and what you think of them. I have an Elite 95 Blu-ray on the way and am a big Pioneer Elite fan.

One thing I have certainly learned is that the information released is certainly succeptible to spin from both camps (I have gotten several things incorrect by relying on certain sources). Everybody is pushing sales for this quarter, and I really do not think it will be a good judge of the end results. HD-DVD does not have that many big titles coming out compared to Blu, so I think sales will be favoring Blu, but it will be an apples to oranges comparison. The only sales I trust would be Warner releasing how many titles they sold of dual releases, and that can be modified by demographics; i.e. 300 selling more Blu and Planet Earth selling more HD-DVD (is it the PS3 factor?). I actually would be fine with both formats living a peaceful coexistence (but I really would like a Pioneer Elite HD-DVD player), but one format may win in the end. What I do not want is to pay money to Microsoft for lower quality downloads.

You are correct about studios owning the movies instead of the directors, but there is a select few that can stop the release. Speilberg and Lucas being the big two. So it will be interesting next Christmas when we see what happens with Indiana Jones 4. Also, it was my understanding that the Spiderman 3 figures did not count the box set or the free ones inside the 40G PS3, but I could be wrong. Finally, the 1.1 BR players add enhanced picture in picture capability. BR can do PiP now, just not near as good as HD-DVD. Being as I could care less about that (and most special features for the most part), 1.1 is not a big deal to me. Since my first post on the matter, my friend did have to buy a new receiver, but he never fugured out why he couldn't get standard 5.1. I will likely own both formats as well (there just aren't enough out there to justify HD-DVD for my individual tastes). The good thing about the format war: it has driven prices down substantially on both sides. BR players will continue to drop, and movie prices are not bad considering how new both formats are. I remember paying over $30 for DVDs three years into that game, we are well below that with HD media (and that doesn't even factor in inflation). Thank goodness I don't have to worry about my speakers being out of date.

I do not see this format going down like the audio formats did. Regardless of whether you support both formats or Blu-ray or HD-DVD only, the HD media will be with us with new releases. The difference is that it is hard for the public to switch formats. CDs have been around for a very long time, and only now do you see it moving to downloads (that are a lesser quality if the CD is done right). I think movies are a completely different beast. The music industry has changed things somewhat, but will still do OK in the future. Movie studios, however, will live or die on home video. With the cost of movie production with advertising, they never would be alive without a thriving home video market. This is why you will not see DVD recome replaced for a long time. On the other hand, they know the HD market is ripe for a new format that can exist alongside DVD. With the U.S. TV broadcasts moving from analog, many people will be getting high definition TVs. Many will see how good these video formats are, and they are both very good. In my opinion it is not the quantum jump from VHS to DVD, but if you have the right equipment it is. Now I certainly did not spend $6000 on speakers either, but the high-end videophile that does will likely have both formats. I have Blu-ray now due to the fact that I have children and the specific studios meet my needs now. If this war continues, you better believe I will move into HD-DVD as well. There are only about five to ten titles on that format that I would buy, not enough for me to invest in that, yet. If things move at the status quo, in my opinion both formats will continue to exist alongside one another. If Warner Brothers switches sides, that would change the dynamic drastically (and both sides have manipulated data and misquoted executives to guess what they would do). I think things will go on as they are at least through Christmas 2008. Then we will see, but I do not think that these formats will die off like some of the audio formats in the past, but we will see. Regardless of our opinions on this stupid format war, I can at least know that anybody that disagrees with my positions here on this are very intelligent, wise people. We all have damn good speakers.

I agree with everything you have said. I, for one, am sorry if I have given a "mine is bigger than yours" impression, and I firmly agree with the tempest in a teapot statement. My numbers may be off, but the highest selling HD disc is around 350,000 units with DVD of the same title being 8.5 million units. I just wish the camps of the two biggest formats would have unified. Also, no studio is going to abandon the DVD. That is what keeps most of them afloat. At best, these HD discs will exist along side DVD for a long time. Just don't pop in a HD disc of Planet Earth after watching the DVD of it. You will become hooked.

OK, OK, I did look up some of your points and you are correct in some respects, so I'll respond. The only player I was talking about on HD-DVD with the limited audio is the $98 A2. By the way my friend that picked one up cannot get anything but 2.0 sound out of it. Several other players are fine. The big point that I was wrong about was the manufacturers of the stand alone. LG makes one that is dual. The non-Toshiba prices are comparable to the Blu-ray prices if not cheaper. Nevertheless, there are many more manufacturers of Blu-rays. In Wired Magazines electronics review issue they praise the latest Toshiba but add "the future of the format is shakey." However, studio support. Exclusive to Blu-ray: Disney, Sony, Lionsgate, MGM, Columbia (owned by Sony), and Fox. Exclusive to HD-DVD: Universal, Paramount, Dreamworks (but the Steven Speilberg movies are not included). Warner releases titles in both. New Line releases in both, but recently releases Blu-ray first followed by HD-DVD later. No matter how you cut it, Blu-ray has the greater studio support. Home Theater Specialists of America is the organization endorsing Blu-ray over HD-DVD. Many directors have stated their preference for Blu-ray as well. Sales to date is between 2:1 and 3:1 in favor of Blu-ray. With year to date being around 2:1. Spiderman 3 racked in tons of sales. Warner's movie 300 has sold twice as many Blu-ray as the HD-DVD edition. Number of title availability is even. At my Best Buy, Blu-ray is about $5 cheaper than HD-DVD with the exception of Fox titles which tend to be $5 more than HD-DVD. There is this thing called combo disks that HD-DVD makes that are the same as the Fox discs (that many people have problems with). Best buy also had a $399 Sony Blu-ray player at my store, so I bet you can find one around $300 before Christmas. Now I realize alot of people really get invested in this battle. In a perfect world this would not be an issue as there would not be two formats, but there are. I just disagree that Blu-ray is inferior, it is not. Certainly, the price of stand alone Blu-ray players is the biggest problem for that format, but that will come down over time. Further, somebody that goes out and spends $6000 on Klipsch speakers can afford Blu-ray.

I must chime in as I follow this format war on a daily basis. In my opinion regardless of the Toshiba sale (which was a 1080i player only with limited audio outputs) there is no way HD-DVD will win the format war. The best that they can do is make it a stalemate which causes these HD discs to be a niche product like lazerdisc. On the other hand, in my opinion, Blu-ray can win the format war. It is technically superior (although I will say the picture should look the same, but it has the edge for audio due to disc size and bitrate. It also has a majority of the studio support and overwhelming success overseas. The organization of home theater installers here in the U.S. selected Blu-ray exclusively. There is only one manufacturer of HD-DVD stand alone players but many for Blu-ray. You will also see Blu-ray prices begin to drop on the players (I bet before Christmas you can find one for $300- and it will be much better than the A2) and the movies are about $5 cheaper than HD-DVD if you don't count Fox. Despite the lower prices on Toshiba players, Blu-ray still leads almost 3:1 in software sales. If you are one the fence I would say get a Blu-ray or get both.

Sound is very important to me (I do have Klipsch speakers, damnit!), so lossless audio is the way to go for me. Due to this, Blu-ray has more lossless sound and the Fox seems to be releasing most of their movies with DTS-HD MA. HD-DVD does not have the bitrate capable of giving the exact same soundtrack from the movie theater with the HD image, so it is Blu-ray for me. It is anybody's format war to win at this point, with vehement supporters on both sides. Conventional wisdom still gives Blu-ray a slight edge, but this holiday season should be telling. If Warner Bros. switches to one side exclusively, that will end the format war in my opinion.

I have RF-63s, RC-64, RS-52s, with the RSW-10d and am very impressed. I was afraid that the sub would not keep up very well with the 63's, and it shakes the entire house. The speakers are about a week and a half old and great. Put the remake of War of the Worlds the other day, and I thought my home was going to explode. It is placed in the corner with hardwood floors. We also watch fairly close to the TV.

I do think that the Pioneer Elite products are fantastic, it is just the customer service techs really did not understand complex technical issues. Also when a firmware upgrade was necessary for my receiver, they wanted me to mail it to an out of state repair facility. They need to reevaluate how they handle repairs and orders. On the other hand, the people at Klipsch actually cared about my issues. Certainly I had people at Pioneer that were good, but nothing on the level as Klipsch.

Got my rc-64, rf-63's, rs-52's, and rsw-10d in the other day and they are amazing. But what I wanted to say is how much help I obtained from the Klipsch customer service in making the purchase. Most of the time these days you are sent to some person that just wants you off the line and ends with "thank you for your call" after they completely infuriated you. I have never received so much help as with Klipsch. One issue was that I needed to be able to put my 50" display on top of the actual center speaker (for complicated reasons). The customer service rep confirmed the internal bracing and actually conferred with the engineer that designed the speaker (who has his display on top of it). After speaking to me several times about my issues, he actually called me back after doing even more research on my issues. The speakers were also sent to a dealer that was not a Klipsch dealer with no problems. I spent a significant amount of money by my standards, and I do not regret one single penny. I posted the above also at avsforum and failed to mention the support from people on this board as well (I'll be sure to let them know). Suffice it to say that part of what helped me make my purchase was the communication here and with customer service. I hope that some person out there trying to decide on brands happens on this post and gives Klipsch speakers a chance. Now if only Pioneer could get service reps that are fractionally as good, I would be in home video nirvana.

I would say Pioneer Elite. I absolutely love the sound. But, of course, you only need a 1.3 receiver if you plan to use a high end Blu-ray or HD-DVD player that outputs the lossless sound. Oh, and there are not any available right now. I think there should be a few of those players before Christmas. I think Denon announced a $2000 Blu-ray that fit that criteria that got pushed back to 2008. I am waiting on the Pioneer Elite BDP-LX70a (but I am not going to pay $1000 for it, that is for sure).

I would recommend going to avsforum.com and searching for the thread of Pirates of the Carribean: Curse of the Black Pearl framing errors in the Blu-ray software area. You would be completely educated on this issue. Basically, some full frame movies can have more information; however, it is likely not presented as the director intended. When filming, there are no movies shot in full frame these days, so there is no way to see a 16:9 image in full frame without either some image cropped or being shown information you were never intended to see. Sometimes, the uninteded image is just extra fluff but detracts from the artistic framing of the image. Sometimes you can see stuff you really don't need to see, like the helicoptor blades in the Shining when it is supposed to be a natural fly over. Other times it can be a boom mike, or , as it the case of POTC, you can see set construction. Another good website is thedigitalbits.com. They have a very good tutorial on widescreen. I would bet any amount of money that either the transfer of the Net was incorrect on the widescreen or you were never supposed to have seen the extra information on the fullscreen. Best way to see the full benefit of widescreen over fullscreen in my opinion is comparing Lawrence of Arabia. Watching that in fullscreen should be against the law.

I really do not know why they don't lower the prices on 1st generation hardware. As you can tell, I closely watch the Elite prices, and they still list their first generation player as $1,500. Ouch. The second generation player is $999 (although by going through thedigitalbits.com you can knock $150 off-an indespensible website by the way). I suspect the 3rd generation Elite will list around $750-$800 with discounts bringing it down to $650-$700. With the interactive features of Blu-ray not fully implimented, I would wait and see what the holiday prices bring. I know it is hard not to pull the trigger, but I would definately not get a first generation player of any format. All of the ones I have demoed have not worked well. Edit: The "third generation player" that I have been hearing about is actually a $299 drive for the PC, although I am still wondering if we will either see a 3rd by Christmas or a firmware upgrade that supports the interactive feature.

It appears that your audio/video setup is close to mine. Pioneer is about to release a third generation blu-ray prior to December, and your system would handle it fine. I would wait if possible. I have heard really good things about the Elite Blu-ray players (although they are more expensive).

I am certainly NOT knowledgable about the tech end of this question, but I did notice that some Pioneer receivers have a firmware update to correct subwoofer performance. I think it had to do with HDMI audio, but it might be worth it to check with Pioneer.

First of all, thanks alot for the replies. Would there be anything I needed to do to the receiver in setup to get it as the PCM or would it automatically accept the higher bitrate? It does have both HDMI and optical inputs that are open.

I realize that I am bumping myself, but after doing some research I have discovered the answer to this seems to be yes based on my receiver. It is a Pioneer Elite VSX-82TXS and that should do it for what I read. Nevertheless, what I read I certainly did not understand, so if anybody can answer this in a way that could be understood, it would make a blossoming audiophile very happy indeed.

I have several questions about this new True Dolby and such coming out on the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs and this forum tends to be extremely knowlegable. First of all, I have a 7.1 receiver that can do all the Dolby and DTS modes, but those new sound formats are not listed. If I were to buy a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player that supports that format, could my receiver properly play it? What does all of this 'uncompressed' sound mean? Will the HD discs still have the basic Dolby and DTS tracks on them? As you can see I am really confused about all of this and am about to take the plunge on one of these players, but I cannot seem to find a place that can explain this to a moron like myself.

Best Buy can definately get them for you if they have the Magnolia Home Theater section in it. If they don't have the Magnolia in your local Best Buy, talk to the manager. I bet he can order it through that.

I would like an answer to this question also, as this is exactly what I am thinking of doing.

I too felt your pain. I got a new 50" Pioneer Elite plasma and regular TV looks awful. I do believe that it is not the TV, it is just the jump in size is one factor compared with the shock when you go from full HD to standard definition. Kind of like listening from the sound difference from DVD and VHS, you just never realize how bad the picture was until you see it in full HD. Some cable services are starting to use digital for all channels (not HD now, just not an analog signal) and the picture does improve a little.