decibel man

Moon, I am sorry for the confusion. I was trying to say that I have listened to the same material in both Logic7 (cinema) and Dolby Prologic II. As you already know the 520 has both. I personally like the Logic7 better than the DPL II. Nice receiver isn't it. ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening!

I have the AVR7000 and yes it is a very nice receiver. As compared to the 4802 there should be a very large price difference. I got mine two years ago when they first came out and it was only $1100. If I am not mistaken the 4802 is quite a bit more. The 8000 only has amplification for five channels but it has pre-outs for 6.1. I would not pay more than $1000 for a 7000 today. It is a discontinued model. It does not have Dolby ProLogic II, but it does have Lexicon's Logic7 which is the same principle and I think superior to the Dolby ProLogic II. I have a/b'ed the two of them on the AVR520. That all said the 4802 should be around $2000. If it were me, I would go with the 7000 and use the extra cash elsewhere. That will prohibit you from going with 6.1 or 7.1 in the future, no problem for me. You should also take a look at the Pioneer Elite 47tx and 49tx if you are in the $2000 plus range. Also the B&K 307 and 305 receivers are very nice. There are a ton of Denon faithful here that will tell you to get the 5803 also. I personally find the Denon's lean toward being a bit bright. I have an older AVR2500 Denon and have tried it out with several of my Klipsch speakers and it can be a little too bright for my taste. The build quality and features are very nice though. For the best bass management the 49tx is the clear winner. This is a good problem to have; too many choices in the high end receiver market. Good luck!! ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening!

As far as the whole 6.1 / 7.1 propaganda, it seems like a lot of marketing hype. I would take the extra money for the extra speakers, processing, and amplification and put it towards more DVD's or anything else that I may enjoy. To do it correctly the extra cost of a 6.1 or 7.1 system will be anywhere from $700 to $3000. The film industry is not at all convinced that the extra channel is advantagous. That kind of cash would be better spent elsewhere. Now again this is just my opinion, but it does make sense. It is next to impossible to find a medium to small movie theater with back wall surrounds. If there was a large benefit, the theaters would be installing these speakers quite rapidly. I think we get so passionate about this stuff that we forget to put benefits into perspective. I have seen systems with extra speakers and expensive accessories surrounding older uncomfortable furniture. I would have bought a nicer couch before a rear center. The extreme joy from a rear center won't aleviate the back pain from a bad couch and a three hour movie. Enough ranting for now, my pillow awaits my arrival. JT ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening!

Moon, the HK520 is a very good choice, I have the HK7000 (the former big brother to the 520). I do think you would be better of with the 320 if you are serious about Klipsch speakers. The HK receivers have a ton of current, so there isn't a whole lot of need for high wattage when paired with Klipsch speakers. Most of the Klipsch lines are very effiecient when it comes to sensitivity (they can play loud with very little power). The feature set isn't all that huge between the 520 and the 320 and you will definitely save some bucks. I would of coarse suggest the RF-3II, RC-3II, and the RS-3II. With your budget you may have to wait a while for a subwoofer, but you will still want to have one eventually. If you can't afford the whole system then just get a good set of mains for now, like the RF-5's. Two channel with Klipsch is better than surround with Bose or a number of other very popular brands. You may want to watch EBay for some nice used Klipsch speakers. If you do not feel the need for a warranty, you may want to look at different internet dealers. They cannot offer a warranty, as Klipsch does not honor "out of area" internet sales. The rule of thumb I tell my friends when they ask me to go with them to look for a system is: find a price you are comfortable with and then double it. This prevents the 8 to 12 month, I should'ves. I should have spent a little more and got the better speakers or I should have just got the mains and added the rest later. In my case, I should've got the HK500 as the HK7000 barely gets any exercise with the Klipsch speakers. Durring most soundtrack and music playback the Klipsch speakers probably only use 3 to 6 watts (except for deep bass dynamics) of the 100 watts that are available from my HK. Best of luck, feel free to email me with specific questions. These board members are very prompt and more than willing to write discertations on one's first Klipsch system. JT ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening!

BOA, if I remember correctly (it's been several years) there used to be a triple pass that covered A-Basin, Breckenridge, and Keystone. It used to be $36 for all day, cheap I know. You could ski Breckenridge, A-Basin (holy cow, the altitude) and then Keystone on into the evening. One heck of a long day, but fun. JT ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening!

How about the new Argon Stage One? It looks like a decent contender. THX Ultra 2! That can't be bad. It has 6.1 (which basically means 7.1 with the use of a spliter). HDTV switching. RS-232 for future upgrades. List is $4000. Ding Ding Ding ... We have a winner! Just kidding, but it looks like a nice piece of equipment. JT ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening!

I apologize for not clarifying my earlier post. I guess what I was trying to say was: if Klipsch is 100% committed to stopping unauthorized sales transactions there is a lot more that can be done (i.e. B & W). That said; maybe, and I say this lightly, Klipsch can enjoy a mixture of sales. Right now thousands of units are being sold on the so called "grey market" as unauthorized transactions, but Klipsch is telling us and the local dealer that these are unauthorized transactions therefore there is now warrantee. This is all true, but Klipsch is still reaping the benifit of selling these items. When was the last time anyone saw a refurbished B&W speaker on the internet? Or even a "grey market" B&W offering? I use B&W as that was the example given to me from our local HiFi dealer. My point to this matter, is that Klipsch needs to either push this "no grey market sales" issue to the max or they need to allow internet transactions. Either suits me just fine. If "grey market" sales are eliminated that will eventually create demand for Klipsch products from local retailers and also create competition between them, (I am all for that). If internet prevails, (probably not) then at least we can get a bare bones price. This is why I suggested the rebate program or for that matter anything that might work. I don't get paid the big bucks to be the marketing guru. Klipsch please give the market place some assertive direction!! Pretty please!! JT ps: Phil we all know that homemade braided cat 5 cable is the best. Just kidding. ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening!

I wanted to also say that I am kind of relieved in the fact that I have decided to postpone the upgrading of my system. I was about to move up to the Rx-7 line, but we decided to buy a house 7 doors down. The new house has 3100+ sqft and a 15-coarse full basement that is crying for a HT room. The new house is only a couple of years old as compared to our 24 year-old 2100+ sqft current home. I am glad I won't have to go through this dealer issue for a couple of years. I might even go the better route, used KHorns and matching heritage products. Right now I feel more comfortable dealing with ebay than the local so-called "authorized dealers". JT ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening!

The bottom line is that dealers have hundreds of choices to choose from in the speaker market. If a product is available cheaply on the Internet these dealers will not carry it unless they can make the same profit and be competitive. The problem is Klipsch has just recently come up with this Internet policy(12 to 18 months?). Therefore; in medium to small markets, (or in those markets where Klipsch sales personnel have done a crappy job) there are hardly any dealers left. When I asked my local shop why they didn't have Klipsch the owner said: "They have choosen to allow alternative distribution to exist with regular distribution and we do not need to support a vendor that does this". In other words he basically said; "if we can't sell it at or near list then we don't want it". It is absolutely poor market management by Klipsch. The major high-end chain in our metro area stopped carrying Klipsch all together. There is one dealer left in the Cleveland area and that store is out in the eastern suburbs near BFE. I almost forgot, there is a dealer in Canton, last time I visited (1 hour from Cleveland) they had a whopping 4 different Klipsch products. I was given the old "what do mean they are expanding the reference line?" The good thing is that they are listed as a Klipsch authorized dealer. Klipsch is a market leader, maybe in irresponsible marketing? Yes, I know, their sales numbers are excellant. Why not use a manufacturer rebate program? If you purchase a pair of speakers directly from an authorized dealer you send in a copy of the receipt and the rebate form. That way if it isn't from an authorized dealer you can't get the rebate. You up the prices of the speakers and that way it will be about the same price from an unauthorized dealer as it would be from an authorized dealer. You can then prove to your dealers that you are actually working to solve your problems (an believe me these are problems) and you might regain some integrity. I would love nothing more than to say to a dealer. I am going to see what you competition has to offer in the Klipsch line. You can advertise in all the magazines you want, but until you have some market wide integrity it is going to be an uphill battle. Klipsch is going to have to decide whether to go the way of Acoustic Research, with extensive internet sales, or the way of B&W, with almost zero web exposure. Make up your darn minds and do it right so we don't have to suffer for your current or past mistakes! Sorry about the rant, this just pisses me off beyond belief. This is in no way a personal critizism of any of the moderators or customer service staff, which have all been excellant. JT BTW, I speak from some personal experience relating to maket responsibility. I have been in manufacturer sales for 11 years. Not electronic related though. ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening!

You will have to ask Klipsch but you should be able to get klipsch to put a new cone on your woofer. If not I have replaced two dented woofers and they were only $70 each at the time. I then smoothed out the dents by taking them out of the speaker and playing with the dents from both sides of the cone. I built two RB-5 sized speakers for my workshop and they sound great. Just my two cents. JT ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening!

Check out www.svsubwoofers.com and ask them as many questions as you can. They are very helpful. Lots of deep tight bang for the buck. Good luck and enjoy! JT ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening!

Dvois, I have the 7000 and just love it. I have adopted a few different receivers over the years, but this one just sounds great. It's musical capability is just wonderful. TheEar is right on all accounts. The 8000 is the updated version of the 7000. The size could definitely be an issue though. I think it is 19" plus deep, it sticks out the front and back of my stand. The 8000 can be had online for competitive pricing if you choose that route. You may want to call JandR, I got my 7000 from them at a nice price. Good luck! JT ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening!

My two cents: I have both a HK7000 and a Denon AVR2500. Right now I just have a Ref 3 system as my main HT. The Denon is a prologic receiver and obviously the HK is ready for the digital age. The Denon is rated at 85 watts in stereo and the 7000 is rated at 100 in stereo. It sounds more like a 1000 watt difference than 15. No question the 7000 is a better match to the Klipsch. I like both receivers and still use the Denon in a spare room. I also have a stereo HK that is 14 years old in my work shop. That old HK is only 45 watts and it gives the Denon a good run for the money. The problem with the 7000 is its huge size. The damn thing is like 20" deep. It sticks out the front and the back of my entertainment center. I think the wiser move is the HK, but you can't go wrong with either. The Outlaw 1050 should definitely be considered here though. Logic 7 is Lexicon's version of Prologic II, but they have had it for a number of years. Try and find a 510 and save a few bucks. Just don't buy a refurb from either manufacturer, it's just not a wise idea. JT ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening!

I would be willing to wager some cash that Klipsch won't disclose the sensitivity of each driver. It is kind of like asking them for the crossover details on a current product. They feel that information is proprietary information. I can see where they are coming from. You may still want to call Trey at the toll free number (I believe it is 888-KLIPSCH). Good luck. JT ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening!

I recently installed a Soundblaster Live 5.1 digital sound card in my computer. I want to utilize the SPDIF digital out on my card to play audio to my main system in the next room. Problem is; the connection is some type of mini-jack. It also doubles as the analog out for the center and subwoofer channels if that helps. I need to convert the cable or jack over to digital coax or optical. Can anyone tell me what cable or part I am going to need? I know this post might be better suited for the ProMedia section, but I thought I would give it a shot here first. Thanks, JT

Where to start? 1) The KLF-C7 is a powerfully loud and dynamic speaker, the Ref line is more sublte and accurate. Will it work? Yes, but it probably isn't the ideal situation. My guess is you got a very good deal and sometimes that can be as important. 2) You are going to need a sub with either of the RB series speakers. You may want to cosider going with a pair of RF-3's for now with out a sub. A good sub is recommended though. They are the same price as the RB's (you may not find a floor model though). 3) The RS-3's might also be a better match for the RB's or RF-3's. You could save some money here. The RS-7's are ment to go with the RF-7's. 4) Receivers? I have a HK7000 and absolutely love it. Whatever you do, do not buy a refurb. I have heard several stories of people buying refurbs that are complete lemons. It's been over two years and I have never had a problem with mine. And I think that the Lexicon Logic-7 is much better than ProLogicII. I also have a Denon 2500 in my spare system and have no complaints. You may want to look for a HK510 as it has been replaced with the 520. The 510 will be plenty of receiver for any Klipsch speaker system. I also wouldn't be a true Klipscher if I didn't mention the Outlaw 1050 receiver. It is the best bang for the buck on the receiver market today. Great sound, good clean power and a few bells and whistles to boot. Disclaimer: I am not an expert as you requested. I am just another audio geek with his own set of self drawn conclusions and opinions. Happy listening and enjoy! JT This message has been edited by decibel man on 02-02-2002 at 03:16 AM

Mike, my suggestion would be to try it both ways. See if a dealer will let yet demo the needed cables or see if you can borrow some decent cables from a friend and do some A/B testing to see what your ears like. I use the dig coax option on my particular setup. Most receivers will convert the analog input to digital using their DSP to process the now digital information and then convert it back to analog. I figure using digital saves the receiver a step and maybe it prevents some small sound degradation. I did the A/B testing and the dig option sounded more acurate and dynamic. I just wish all CD's were recorded in the same volume range. Just my $.02! JT

Your list looks very good. I am not going to open the usual can of worms here. I think cable should be good quality, I don't know if it needs to be great quality. What you have listed is probably a little bit more than what I would go for, but I do think it is worth the money spent on it. In other words, I think the Z2 and Z1 cables are not over priced, it just might be a bit more than what I would spend on cable. The sub cable is very nice and right in line with my train of thought. I am definetly envious of your system. I was about to upgrade to the Rx-7 series, but do to corporate cutbacks I am now job hunting. Although, if I can find work in the next month or so I could end up with a little unexpected bonus money. Disclaimer: Just because I have an opinion on cable, that does not mean it is right. JT

I am sure this isn't the case, but I have to ask. You are using the analog output to the receiver aren't you? Do you have both digital and analog hooked up? If so it may not be a parallel output. Good luck!

I don't think Mark Levinson or Lexus will agree. Mark Levinson has been producing an optional audio system for some of the 2002 Lexus models. My in-laws just got a new LS430, but opted not to get the $8000 stereo upgrade. However, they commented that it sure as hell sounded good. From what I have read and been told, this might be one of the best stereo systems ever available in a production car with a price tag of $75,000 or less. It is also Mark Levinson's first car attempt. It sounds like Lexus had to practically beg them to do the project as ML didn't want to tarnish their name with some Blose like system. I just want to test drive the audio system, not the car. The car is great, but I drive that often enough.

I can't give you an opinion on the C-7 issue, but I can tell you that the HK320 is going to love those Klipsches. I have an HK AVR7000 that just rockets my RF-3's into pure bliss. I have an old HK 550i stereo receiver in my shop that still kicks some behind. I hooked it up to the RF-3's and realized I bought too much power in the AVR7000. The 550i's 45 watts per channel also sounded great through the RF's. I now wonder why I decided on a 100 watt receiver. Logic7-C is a nice touch also. Good luck and enjoy! JT

I have an older Denon in my spare HT room and it still can crank it up notch. The 1802 is a nice piece. You should do a search for Denon on this BB you will find a lot of possitive comments about there products. You aren't far from the $499 price tag of the famous Outlaw 1050 which is a board fav also. Just food for thought. JT The Denon probably has more current than the yammy, therefore it might handle the dynamics of HT a little better. Try to listen to them both if at all possible.

You may want to ponder this thought. Take a hard look at the Harmon Kardon AVR310 and AVR510. These two models have been recently replaced by the 320 and 520. The new models have the PLII that you are looking for, but they all have Logic7 which was designed by Harmon's Lexicon division. It basically does the same thing as PLII. I have the AVR7000 and the Logic7 sounds great. These babies have plenty of super high current power and quite a few extras. There should be plenty of the older models still around, just don't buy a refurb! I actually purchased mine from J & R over the phone. They have an extensive website www.jandr.com but they can be more competitive over the phone. They gave me a great deal on the AVR7000, RF-3's, RS-3's, and a RC-3. That was a couple of years ago when Klipsch let them sell mail order with a full warranty. The cheapest price for the AVR7000 at the local stores was $1499 (it had just come out) but the entire package was $2625 delivered to my door. Sevice was excellant and they double boxed everything, even the RF's. I then bought my DVD player from them also. In total on just those purchases I calculated that I saved $975 from the local pricing. That bought me a nice 36" Toshiba TV, component video cables, cd player, and optical and coax digital Monster cables. The TV was a floor model for two weeks and then it (36CZ61) was replaced by the 36A60, giving me a 30% reduction for a mere two weeks worth of use. Good luck in your receiver hunting! JT

Good luck, I hope it exceeds your expectations. Keep us updated on the yammy. I for one always like to read other Klipschers' opinions on how their gear matches up with our beloved Klipsch speakers. Happy listening and enjoy! JT

All that said, How much for the RF-5 crossovers? That might be a nice upgrade for the RF-3's. Has anyone at the factory tried this yet?