seasterl

I wonder if they would have benefited from front porting rather than the rear-firing passive woofer to make placement easier. In hindsight, that’s definitely one advantage to the CW. Of course, for those that want more bass energy, then it’s a good option to have to dial it in. So I guess this tune-ability can be an advantage, too, for those that prefer a more relaxed midrange.

Mark in PA: you were right! I pulled them further away from the front wall and it reduced bass energy and brought the midrange into much better balance. Thanks for the great advice. I’m a very happy camper now and mission accomplished.

I was able to play with positioning a bit more (pulled off front wall more) and minimized the 50Hz peak and excess bass energy and achieve better balance between mids and lows and improve midrange presence. Since this is a loft area with sliding glass doors, I can only do so much. But I’ve never had to work so hard with any speaker before to achieve good sound. I’m now very happy! A little playing with position really went a long way, and I can’t believe how much of a difference it made. I smoothed out the lows with a Bag End 18” and room correction processor without shifting balance away from midrange presence. Now, rock sounds the way it should with tight, chest-ponding bass that doesn’t upsets the vocals or guitar. I can’t believe I was actually considering a different amp to brighten them to fix my problem! Thanks for the help.

I had been struggling with my Forte IV placement in a 13x13’ carpeted room. They’re in the corners (about 18” from front wall and 12” from side wall) and generating too much bass energy and drowning the mids and they sound too laid back and out of balance, IMO. After removing the grills, toeing in, and changing interconnects (to Kimber PBJ), they still sound laid back and with excessive bass energy. So I moved them to a different room (13x18’ carpeted) and placed about 7’ from front wall and 2’ from side wall. The excessive bass energy want away and the mids were now more present and they sound like a more balanced loudspeaker and with a little more of the signature sound I was looking for. But here’s the neat part… when I play jazz and blues at normal volume, they still sound laid back and engaging. When I play rock at the same volume, they still sound laid back, but when I turned up the volume (like we should with rock), the tone shifted from forward considerably and the bass stayed in check. At about 95dB, they really became the speaker I expected since I needed something for rock. In this room, I have it set up using the rule of thirds and I’d describe it more as near-field listening. I find this setup ideal for these speakers and the rock tracks I played sounded much, much better compared to the other setup where imbalance was killing the song. I still plan to put them back in the smaller room (where they’re corner-loaded) and play more with placement the wall to manage the bass a bit more to improve balance. This is just my goal and preference. Others may desire the bass energy.

Thanks! I’ve heard of the miniDSP before, but didn’t know about the quality. I’d hate to have thousands of dollars worth of electronics all going through a $200 device that’s on par with car stereo quality. If there’s any anecdotal impressions about the miniDSP sound quality, that would be great. I’d read an old thread that praised the EV DC-One, and it looks great on paper, but wasn’t sure if it was still a great option. Years ago I used the Bryston 10B, but they’ve since been long out of production and worn-out used once’s still sell for more than they cost new. I didn’t know if that meant there was still no quality replacement. I suspect there is or Bryston would not have stopped making them. The downside to the Bryston peace was that you had to choose which model you wanted, and it was a compromise on slopes and crossover point options, and there was no time correction. It was a price unit tonight offer everything a person needed. With the community here agree that some of these newer options available do not degrade the sound quality?

Does anyone make an active crossover that uses a calibrated microphone and has its own frequency sweep tone and can automatically adjust slopes and time alignment for a two-way loudspeaker setup assuming I enter the crossover point? What’s the closest product currently available on the market that’s suitable for home use and high quality? If nothing available that does this, what’s the current best crossover?

Thanks for the link. I re-read it (since I saw it before and was part of the reason I bought the Forte IV), but they only mentioned use of steeper slopes. I thought I’d read elsewhere that the slope was steep between midrange and highs, but not as steep with the woofer. I was thinking of building a horn to mate with the woofer (for when I want to rock out), but I’d need to know the slopes. Some crossovers offer only 4th order whereas I’ve owned one that switched between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd order but no 4th.

I know the crossover point is 650Hz, but not sure about the slopes on both sides of the point.

In the EL34, KT88/90/120, etc family of tubes, IMO there’s the Svetlana SED Winged-C EL34,… and then there’s the rest of the tubes in this family. The Winged-C EL34 gives the fat, rounded, warm tube-like sound everybody thinks about when then think about tubes, and these work great with bright, forward speakers typical of older Klipsch horn-loaded speakers. They’re a perfect match! The rest of those tubes in that family, IMO, sound too much like SS and just don’t have as much soul. These Forte IV I just got, though, are darker than I recall my old H3 and I’m using TungSol KT120 with them to try to brighten them up. But a better sound, to me, is matching the Winged-C EL34 with an otherwise forward-sounding speaker. In general, I think the JJ and Electro Harmonix tubes in this family sound very similar to each other and different from the EL34 SED. I think the bigger differences are not so much between tube type (e.g., EL34 vs KT88), but rather between manufacturers.

I just got Forte IV and still playing with them to optimize sound. I just found this review (with lots of measurements) and he comments on placement w.r.t. the wall. You might find it helpful. https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/klipsch_forte_iv/

I got the $15 one-time-fee version of the app. The only other option was a monthly subscription.

Thanks for the app tip, Cory. I just downloaded the app and it’s pretty cool. Can I record a spectrum sweep in one room that I like and compare to the room that needs help?

Can anyone confirm the crossover point and slopes (on both sides) between the woofer and midrange? Thanks!

Thanks for the comments, Mark. I’ll play with the placement a bit more. I wish I had something to measure the frequency output. I already have and use the Velodyne SMS-1 room correction with a passive sub, but that’s only for the lows. Today I’ll try the RCA 12AU7 tubes. I’ve got plenty of tubes to darken sound, just not used to trying to bright it. Times like this I wish I’d never sold my Cary 300SEI! That was, by far, the brightest amp I’d owned even comparing to SS. The only problem is it would not fit inside the slot I have in this rack, so that’s why I’d considered something in SS, and specifically the ATI Class D because I’d heard they were a little brighter than other Class D amps. If I can tweak the speaker placement as you say, and inch the response a bit more with tubes, risers, and I/C them I’m set.

I’ve used the handy search feature and have been reading, with enthusiasm, many comments and threads about the somewhat new breed of Hypex-based Class D amplifiers. However, I have not read many comments about using ATI’s Class D amps with Klipsch speakers. Does anyone here have any experience using that combination? I have Klipsch Forte IV speakers and considering the ATI 541 NC monoblocks. It would be great to get some thoughts about this set up, and whether or not it would be dry, clinical, sterile, and not very engaging. I’m currently using a factory-upgraded Rogue Atlas Magnum in triode mode with TungSol KT120 tube amplifier and I feel like I’m listening to rock music on the 20th row back (compared to when I had my Heresy 3), and just want to live in it up a bit more. I’ve already removed the grills and toe’d in and still lacking the liveliness I want for this setup. I’m awaiting a new set of interconnects, 12AU7 RCA clear top tubes, and risers to see if this helps. If I get another amp, I don’t want to spend mega bucks getting another dry, uninvolving and laid back SS amp since that’s why I switched from SS to tubes two decades ago. I might hear lots of detail, but it may not be engaging and I won’t care to listen. Thanks!

What compression driver and horn combination will go down to about 100Hz to cover male voices? If there are not any, then perhaps a really light 15” cone is the only way. IME with my old Cornscala two-way, I thought the Eminence Kappa 15C was too heavy. It was great for kick drum and even HT and musical passages, but I felt it lost out when blending male vocals with female vocals. Perhaps I should have experimented more at that time changing the 15” woofer and the crossover. But the Faital driver was a very significant upgrade in smoothness over the midrange used in the H3, so I want to avoid another expensive lesson. The issue I see is that many of these loudspeakers keep their drivers a bit of a secret and hard to determine the manufacturer and model number for some of them. (The magnets are covered by generic stickers.). The Jubilee was mentioned earlier. I thought those were commercial speakers (super large and ugly, industrial-looking), but seems they tried to dress it up more to increase the WAF and market to homeowners. Since the thread quickly changed from CW4 to Jubilee, I gather the group would say that the Jubilee is Klipsch’s smoothest-sounding speaker. If it is much better than the current CW4, then that would be good to know. If they use the same driver(s), then what is the midrange driver and woofer?

Thanks for the comments! First, I should correct a typo in my original post. I meant to acknowledge that Klipsch has the Cornwall IV out now (but I said Cornscala 4). Sorry, but I think you got my drift. But on to the Cornscala, yes, I did have a set as mentioned, and rather than continue to tinker with them further (having already tried all the taps on the autotransformer to tame the Faital HF140 8-ohm driver), I decided to sell them and learn from the failure and come back to the table later. Well, I "think" that now is the later. What I did not like about that particular Cornscala is that it used a heavier version of the Eminence woofer (the Kappa 15C) than what Crites was using in his (I think), and the Faital was the 8-ohm version rather than the 16-ohm version. (These were prebuilt before I understood this differences.) So the horn was hot and the woofer was great on bass but had a clear disconnect when trying to integrate male voices. Otherwise, the Faital was really, really smooth and nice and much better than the mids / highs on my Heresy 3. So what I took from my experience is that I really loved the Faital driver and big oval horn, but I wish there was a similar driver that could go low enough to reproduce the male voices. Cutting off at 500-600Hz is just a really bad place to go from compression driver to woofer IF the woofer is not extremely well integrated. That's when I thought using Dynaudio mid-woofer for male vocals, Faital for 600Hz and up, and then I already have a Bag End 18" sealed with Camco pro amp and room correction. I figured I would do well to get a decent crossover and THEN I could blend all these drivers without worrying about taps on an autotransformer and passive crossovers. Besides, raw materials for the speaker are significantly less than the retail price of new Cornwall 4. I don't mind the 100-pound massive Cornwall speaker (or Cornscala for a project box), but the price is a bit crazy. So, after thinking about this I'm thinking I have a couple of options and this is where I'd like you folks to weigh in. Option 1: Cornwall 4,... In order to vote for this option, I'd request that you have heard the Faital drivers and know how smooth they are and that the Cornwall 4 current midrange driver is at least as good or better. I'm hoping no one suggests H4, CW4, etc. without the experience of hearing the Faital, too. If you have heard them all and know where I'm coming from, then I'll give serious consideration to CW4. Option 2: A Crites 1.5 enclosure (or suitable size) cut for the big oval horn coupled to the Faital driver, and then a Dynaudio mid-woofer (or Scanspeak, etc.) and then I pick up an electronic crossover and do the amplification AFTER the frequencies are split. Then I can blend the drivers without taking the speaker apart. Ideally, I'd get a compression driver and tuba-sized horn and use for the male vocals and tune the 18" Bag End for a little more finesse. As a side note, this is for a third system that his heavily damped with no reflections and using an EL34 tube amp (SED Winged-C Russian tubes).

My first Klipsch speakers were Heresy 3 and I placed them on stands and added a subwoofer and used a tube amp and preamp. It was a nice setup, but I found the sound a bit grainy and sold the speakers. Later I bought some pre-built “cornscala” two-way speakers that used an Eminence 15” woofer and Faital compression driver. I found the Faital smoothness extremely good, but I sold these speakers due to a disconnect (lack of coherence) between the two drivers. In other words, on paper the speakers were great, but the execution lacked credibility. This was my experience about 7-10 years ago. Now Klipsch has the Heresy 4, Cornscala 4, and I guess a Forte that looks nice. Has anyone here experienced the dramatic smoothness of the Faital driver and can relate that to Klipsch’s current offerings and “if” there is a viable Crites upgrade path with the Faital driver for one of the current speakers since they are bigger now and can accommodate the larger Faital driver. Thanks for your comments. I just can’t get the horn sound out of my mind since I love the dynamics and realism and synergy with EL34 tubes.

I'd love to do the all-H3 plus my sub arrangement, but there's just no room for it. The room is only a 12x13' and shares space (on both sides of the sofa) with two pieces of exercise equipment that get frequent use during some shows. Now if I had a dedicated 16x20' room with an extra $2k, an all-H3 would nice be nice!... but that's not a reality and hence, my question.

BTW, would it be a crime to use something like the KHO-7, AW-500-SM, or the AW-650 outdoor speakers for my rear surrounds? These would mount nicely to the backwall and can be angled a little more directly to the listener and not break the bank. Of these three, which would work best? I've not heard any of the outdoor speakers and can't afford to just buy-n-try and buy-n-try,... not for surround speakers.

Thanks for the advice. I'll check into the KG1. My sub is in the middle facing the listener (below the TV), so there's no room for an H3 there. The benefit of having a small room is that the TV does not have to be as big to give a cinema-like visual experience. If the room was larger, I'd have to use a projector. Needless to say, our room is what it is and I just have to make the best of it. Should I consider ceiling-mounted speakers,.... or something small mounted in the ceiling-corners?

I actually was about to post the same question as the original poster of this thread when I found this thread. So I decided to joing this thread. I have H3 as my mains, an inexpensive Klipsch center channel I got from Audiogon, and now I'm looking for some surrounds. My room is only a 12'x13' with the sofa against the backwall. I was considering the KS-525 THX speakers for surrounds, and mounting them (sideways) directly behind the soft. This would have the drivers pointed downward directly as the listener sitting on the couch. I know there are the other two speakers that would then be pointing up at the ceiling, but can I just not hook them up. Ideally, I would find a speaker that has this slant to it (like a dipole, I guess), but only has the one set of drivers to point to the listener and avoid reflections. What do you guys think of this? Sadly, this is also expensive as this model retails for $1300 and I would only be using half the speaker (if possible).

What's the budget? I have Heresy III atop Sound Anchor four-post stands and not running them full range. The limited bandwidth frees them up for vocals, etc. better without requiring them to produce bass. I use a Bag End S18E-I sub, Velodyne SMS-1 bass processor, Camco (damping factor >400!) proaudio amp for the sub, and also use the Bag End processor for more bass and a Pioneer Elite receiver. The coherence is as good as it gets and everything is perfectly matches. (I can even change the EQ with the Velodyne!) On HT movies, the house literally shakes, but only at the frequencies I dictate, and on rock music, the visceral effects of the 18" subs is chest-pounding like it is at a concert. If you pick up these items second-hand, you can save yourself more money.

My intentions are to match the psychoacoustic image plane of the H3 to coincide with that of my TV. My other bookshelf speakers were too laid back and the acoustic image plane was about six feet behind the TV and it made for a very confusing home theater experience. I bought the H3 because they are a three-way design (with two-way horns) and they are know to have a more forward presentation, plus, I've always wanted to own a Klipsch for a great rock sound. Now, I'm learning they also sound great with jazz and other genres.

I don't have my other room ready yet, but it should be completed by the end of this month. This week I'll be picking up the four-post Sound Anchor stands. (I'm going to mount them on stands for a home theater application.) I'll also be using a Marantz Reference Series SM17SA SS amp, but it's the most tube-sounding SS amp I've ever heard and very smooth. I know the bass will increase as they break in, but I'll be cutting off the lowest octave anyway to protect them from harmful LFE and blending my sub with them. I've very excited, and thanks for sharing in the excitement with me.