we_doyle
-
Posts
21 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Events
Gallery
Posts posted by we_doyle
-
-
This would be for a Klipschorn, but it might also be for a LaScala, a Belle, or a Heresy. I am wondering what might happen if I used a 15 inch powered subwoofer in a Klipschorn. The way this might happen would be to put the woofer itself in the Klipschorn (it would be one that needed a new woofer anyway) and run the woofer leads on the Klipschorn crossover to the subwoofer amp. This would mean that the subwoofer amp would need to have speaker level inputs as well as line level inputs. You should be able to take the leads from the crossover and split the pair into two pairs for each speaker input in the subwoofer amp, putting a mono signal to each channel in the subwoofer amp. If successful, you might strengthen and extend that bottom end. Ideally, you might take a Klipschorn all the way down to 20 hz.
Having said all that, it appears that a Klipschorn crossover sends signals below 400 hz to the woofer. A powered sub would likely cut off at 100 hz or 150 hz, leaving a gap for signals under 400 hz and over that cutoff frequency. We don't want that. So, would it be possible to bypass that control on the subwoofer amp so that none of the signal was cutoff? Then, (theoretically) the Klipschorn crossover would send everything under 400 hz to the subwoofer amp and in turn that would be passed on to the subwoofer's woofer, now the woofer inside the Klipschorn. If would be easy enough to mount the subwoofer amp somewhere around back of the Klipschorn so it looks good. Although all frequencies could then go through, the Klipschorn crossover would not let high frequencies ever reach the subwoofer amp.
Before you make the "drawing a mustache and/or glasses on the Mona Lisa" comment, note that I did NOT say I was going to do this. I said I was wondering about it. I do realize that if this were done, it would have to be done two times for two speakers. Also, the cost might be ridiculous. However, I would like to stay focused on the "what if" and not go to the "why would you?".
So, is it possible (and reasonably easy) to bypass the control on a powered subwoofer amp that sets the cutoff frequency, such that all frequencies received go to the amp and to the woofer? If some models could allow this, which ones are they? What other technical issues or challenges or tasks might arise and how would they be dealt with?
FYI, I have a very old Klipschorn cabinet in very good shape and I am going to restore the guts and use it as a center channel, flanked by a pair of LaScala's. I would run a mono signal to the Klipschorn and a stereo signal to the LaScala's, using separate amps. Once I get the Klipschorn up and running, the rest is relatively easy. I don't mind having to use multiple amps.
So, let the conversation begin.
-
I have a pair of tweeter horns out of a pair of KSF-S5 speakers and the crossovers. I want to replace the woofer(s). What ohm woofers should I use?
-
What is the tpi or threads per inch for the Heresy K700 horns? What is the diameter for the size driver that attaches to a K700 horn?
Is it a 1-3/8"-18 TPI thread?
-
Would you happen to know what Klipsch uses to treat the cones?
It seems that if we could get a can or bottle of that stuff, we could touch up the cones.
I am talking about an extremely light coat. I can understand how you could really mess up your woofer if you just poured that stuff on.
-
I did buy some glue at Michael's (the craft store chain) that is supposed to work like I want. They said it would. I have some car speakers that I took out of my Honda when I changed out the factory speakers. I thought I would use those as the guinea pigs to see how various treatments work. I have four of them removed from the car so I can try out at least four substances. I think this should be like sealing your driveway. Of course the old master, Mr. Klipsch himself, did know what he was doing and you hate to mess with genius.
-
(I hope I did not ask this before.) I was wanting to see if anyone had any experience or ideas about applying something like a shellac or rubbery material to the edges of older paper cones (like you find in Klipsch speakers for example) to delay or prevent their deterioration and/or separation from the frame. Now I know you can buy kits to replace or repair your surrounds. I want to prevent or delay that step.
It seems to me that there would be something one could apply like paint to the edges of a paper woofer cone and dramatically strengthen it. It would be nice to find something that would soak into the paper a little and leave a rubber like surface when dry. Naturally, you would not want to overdo it. You want something that dries flexible but that won't easily peel or flake off. I am thinking that you would just take a paint brush and dip it in this stuff and paint the parts of the paper that could use some protection.
I have noticed that the edges seem to have a rubbery substance on the surrounds when they are new. Would that be a shellac or paint like substance applied to the paper cone edges? I don't know. I am asking.
Anyway, I would like to gently apply something like this to my Heresy woofers at some places that would be most likely to tear or break away over time. They are fine right now, but I want to protect them. Also, I know about the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." However, the fix, although doable, would be best avoided if possible, in my opinion.
So, anybody out there have any ideas, or preferably, experience?
-
I listen to both vinyl and CD. I often use MP3 in my car.
I recently got back into vinyl. I do not plan to ditch my CD player or to refrain from using MP3 in my car. I think that they can all peacefully coexist.
I think that vinyl was or could be as good as CD. I once played (years ago) a Mobile Fidelity record (vinyl) and the CD version and felt like both sounded equally good. It was Steely Dan.
The problem was (and still can be) the inconsistency in vinyl. One recording may be fabulous but your favorite song by your favorite artist on vinyl might be pure crap because your favorite artist had the misfortune of being on a crappy label. There is also the crackling and pops. There is warpage. I remember swearing off vinyl around 1985. I bought my first CD player late in 1984 when there were few titles. Back then, every week one would go out to see if any new CD titles had become available. It was a big deal just to have one new CD title that you actually liked. Records on the other hand back then were plentiful and every new release came out in vinyl.
Getting back to the subject, I almost always had to take new releases back because they were warped so bad that they would not play. We all know that a quality turntable will not play a record that is warped all to hell. It got to be quite annoying. Also, it seemed like they were using recycled vinyl for new releases. Every record seemed noisy. It seemed like they recycled the vinyl and ground up the labels and old dirt when they used it again. But the warping was still probably the worst problem. The straw here that broke my back was a copy of the then brand new Glen Frey album, "The Allnighter." Like everything new I was buying, I got it home and it was warped all to hell. I took it back and promised myself that that was the last vinyl album I would ever buy. That promise lasted many years as I built my CD collection to a size much larger than my vinyl collection ever was.
However, just a few years ago I installed a new Grado cartride in my turntable and began to listen again.
I had forgotten just how much of a hassle vinyl is. There is the need to clean it, to clean the stylus, to change the stylus about once a year, just to name a few things. You do not have the instant music. You have to fiddle with the tonearm to land it just where you want it. If you want to move from one song to another, you have to wait or get up and move the tonearm. You might even have to flip over the record.
However, I do enjoy the experience from time to time. As I said, I have no plans to scrap my CD's and I see a place for the MP3 as well.
Finally, while some vinyl releases sound fabulous, some still sound like crap and can only be saved by the CD release.
-
What if I used a pair of the adapters to put Heresy II drivers on Heresy I horns so that they could be mounted from behind. Would that shorten up the horns enough to have them measure under 10 7/8 inches total?
With my setup, if they exceed 10 7/8 inches in length the rear panel is not going to shut.
-
I measured my cabinets. I get 10 7/8 inches deep, measuring from the board that the horn mounts to to the inside of the back panel. In other words, an object that was exactly 10 7/8 inches long and mounted flush to the front board would allow the rear board or panel to be put back on the cabinet with NO clearance. It would just fit when the rear board was screwed back on the cabinet. I only measured one cabinet. I presume that both cabinets are the same. Thus, we have just a frog's hair under 10 7/8 inches for the horn and the driver.
-
It looks like I got quite a few answers and a lot of information.
Let me follow up. I have the Heresy I tweeters, woofers, and crossovers. Only the midranges have escaped me. I see that there is a fit issue. So, I have to look at that factor.
Am I going to have to get new crossovers or modify what I have?
My plan would be to only have the midranges from a pair of II's and leave everything else as is. However, is that going to cause me problems because of the crossovers being from a pair of of I's? This would of course assume that I could overcome the fit issues and actually get the midranges from the II's in the boxes.
Also, it looks like I am seeing the possibility of getting horns from a pair of I's and drivers from a pair of II's, or vice versa, and using an adaptor to make the two items attach to each other. Is this the case or am I misreading someone's response?
I would still prefer to find a good pair of Heresy I drivers and horns at a good price. So far, the price I have been willing to pay has just not reached the price that sellers want. I am trying to get this rebuild done for no more than a nice pair of I's would have cost, if not less than the pair would have cost. I doubt now that I am going to do it for less based on what I already have in these H-I's, but it would be nice to keep some kind of a budget intact. I don't want to wind up paying the same price for them as a pair of La Scala's or Klipschorns would bring.
-
Can one use Heresy II midranges in a set of Heresy I's? Would they be
compatable? What would they do to (or for) the sound? I do not think it
would be that hard to make a plate if necessary to allow the Heresy II
midranges to be mounted in the Heresy I cabinets, should that be
necessary. I know that the Heresy I's mount from the rear and the
Heresy II's mount from the front. My question concerns the effect on
the sound that would result. Any insight or experience out there? -
Can one use Heresy II midranges in a set of Heresy I's? Would they be compatable? What would they do to (or for) the sound?
I do not think it would be that hard to make a plate if necessary to allow the Heresy II midranges to be mounted in the Heresy I cabinets, should that be necessary. I know that the Heresy I's mount from the rear and the Heresy II's mount from the front. My question concerns the effect on the sound that would result.
Any insight or experience out there?
Bill Doyle
-
I hope I have not already asked this question.
I have some Heresy (I) cabinets. So far, I have a pair of woofers and a pair of crossovers. I now only need the tweeters and the midranges. If anyone has a pair of good Heresy I tweeters or midranges or both for sale, I would be interested. However, my question is whether I could put Heresy II midranges or tweeters in these speakers. Of course I would match the pair. The question is about how the sound would be affected if instead of the speakers being all Heresy I's, I put in two Heresy II tweeters or two Heresy II midranges. Likewise, what would happen if I put in both drivers from the Heresy II?
Is there any experience out there on the subject?
Note that I may find my Heresy I's and render this question moot, but I thought that I would ask. I am not in such a hurry that I could not wait. However, if a good set of drivers from a pair of Heresy II's were to come along at the right price, I am wondering if it would work. Finally, I do know that the Heresy I's loaded from the back and the Heresy II's load from the front. Assuming the sound would be OK or just as good, what kind of problems is that difference going to create using the Heresy I cabinets/
-
I have a pair of Heresy woofers. One of them has some wear on the paper part of the driver. It is not so severe that the paper is about to tear or break. It is just there and it makes the paper less than pristine. Someday I suppose that the paper could tear at the point of the wear but I would not think that it was anything that was going to happen soon. I would feel better if it were fortified someway.
I was wondering about applying something to the paper like a shellac (but not actual shellac) to strengthen the paper to prevent it from one day wearing through. I would not coat the entire paper area. Only the worn parts would be coated and the coating would be light and just enough to seal the area and provide some extra measure of protection. I would want something that would be kind of rubbery when dry.
Does anyone have any thoughts or comments or suggestions? Would it damage the sound? Would the protection outweigh any loss of sound quality assuming there was a loss?
-
Can you pair a home La Scala and an industrial La Scala for stereo? How bad is the mismatch? Would the use of a powered subwoofer lessen or eliminate any matching problem? Please let me know the pros and cons. Should I consider it or just keep looking for a pair?
-
I was asking before I do it. I get the impression that it should not be done although not all responses say not to do it. I do not like the idea of brake fluid, as some have suggested. It appears that Klipsch woofers do not seem to develop problems and so there is no need to do anything like this. The point of the question is to ask before and get some experience (negative or positive) from others.
-
Is there any advantage (or disadvantage) in applying a shellac or other similar type coating to woofers for the purpose of protecting the paper from deterioration? It would seem like the coating would help protect the paper cone. However, I wonder if there are some drawbacks to doing something like this. Would it actually hurt the driver?
Would it affect the sound negatively?
If so, how?
If it is a good thing to do, what product do you use?
Is there a particular product to use and/or is there a particular brand?
-
That is interesting. I never thought about it.
If I put in a front projector system, that could easily be done as the screen would be lowered from the ceiling. However, with the new televisions being so much lighter, I could also put a new TV on the catwalk that holds the La Scala and then put the La Scala below, making the three La Scala's even with each other.
-
I think that I can be comfortable buying used La Scala's. The response has been great and the tips are really useful.
In case anyone is interested or wonders, my plan is three La Scala's up front for my home theater. I had shelving built the right size for La Scala's. One goes up top above the TV for the center channel and two will be on either side of the TV. I could go front projector someday with a screen, but the arrangement and location would be the same for the La Scala's. The rears (four total) are just in-wall (two) and in-ceiling (two) speakers. I figured that since most of the action in home theater is up front, the rears are not as crucial. Also, the room would not accommodate two or four more La Scala's in the back. Note that I did read about an installation a few years back (pre-dolby digital--Dolby Pro Logic in fact) where the guy had Klipschorns all around (five with three up front and two in the back). I think that he lived somewhere in the midwest where it was conceivable to be snowed in for weeks at a time.
On a related note, the new La Scala II's are just a hair too high for my shelves. Does anyone know if you can take off the base of the La Scala II to shorten it without hurting or affecting the sound? In other words, is that riser or base just a decoration or would it expose the system drivers (the woofer) if you removed it?
I do critical music listening as well as movies on the system. That is why I want La Scala's. I have a few SACD discs and a few DVD Audio music discs but mostly regular music CDs.
-
This is more of a general question. I am looking to buy a pair of used La Scala's. Are there any common problems or pitfalls that I need to worry about? I try to look at units that have been owned by the seller for a while and operated continuously (as opposed to having been stored a long time). Used ones come in all different ages. I was wondering in particular if there is any excessive risk in buying a pretty old pair of La Scala's if they have been in use and are presently doing fine. It seems like the typical reason for selling is the space they occupy as opposed to some other reason. I have seen several situations where the wife or fiance says that the La Scala's have to go.
As a follow up question, I would also ask how easy it is to repair a La Scala should it need a new driver or a new crossover. In other words, if one had a bad woofer, how easy would it be to get to it to take it out? What about the other drivers? Are they easy to remove and service?
Also, are the surrounds in the woofers such that they will deteriorate with a lot of age. I know that some woofers have paper cones and that the paper will eventually break up. I had a set of the old Large Advents that had to have the surrounds rebuilt. However, after the repair, they were good as new. It was not that big of a deal. Are La Scala woofers similarly vulnerable? Do they have cloth surrounds that are more resistant to tears and just wearing out?
Powered subwoofer for Heritage series
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Everybody has some good comments. I actually have three LaScala's for my home theater (right, left, and center channels). I could have lived without the Klipschorn just fine, but got a nice deal on the empty cabinet. I want to somehow use it. The money I could get selling it does not matter to me.
It might be better to use it in another room as a center channel carrying a mono signal for a stereo system that is strictly for music listening. I have such a room now, with all tube equipment. But it is a little cramped.
This is probably a case of status or ego. There is just something about a Klipschorn, even if you have LaScala's. I could get another single one down the road. I would need to put them in another room to have the corners available.
I will check out that link. Since I have subwoofers in my system, it sounds like adding a powered sub into the Klipschorn would be more trouble than it is worth.