J M O N

Jo-Jo, You also might want to look at Audio Insight and Audio concepts. They are not Klipsch dealers, but they do sell used equipment. John Fort Audio and Krystal Clear Audio might be others to call.

HornEd, I had the same concern about 35Hz. However, my main thought was to use it as the LFE in a home theater setting, and not to augment the bass of my Khorns. Since a 5.1/6.1/7.1/X.1 systems has a separate channel for a subwoofer, I wanted to use one specifically for that purpose. I wouldn't use a sub for 2-channel audio. The problem is to find one that can keep up with a Klipschorn. It's pretty tough to do if you don't have a horn sub. I don't know if 35Hz is low enough for movies, but it might work. What little I have read about this particular sub has been very good.

Jim, Your mention of weight got me to add up some numbers. I probably shouldn't have done that. I came up with 1300 pounds. That $30 for a hand-truck/dolly was one of the best $30 investments I have made. Boomer, In regards to the subwoofer. This has been a strong consideration for me, as I also plan on getting a subwoofer for my Khorns as well. As you know, matching a sub to Khorns can be a very difficult task. I know very little about it, but there is a horn subwoofer out there that may be the best match for Khorns. It's one I'll consider anyway. It the Edgarhorn Subwoofer. It's a horn sub, is very large, and it weighs in at 400 pounds. It goes down to 35 Hz. Depending on finish, you can get it for as low as $1000. It's passive, so you need to get an amp, but some of the amps they recommend are only $300 or so. It's also a very big, seems to be about the size of a refrigerator. This message has been edited by JMON on 07-23-2001 at 03:19 AM

I've never understood the allure of Pro-Acs myself. I've listened to $10,000 models and they did absolutely nothing for me. Maybe I just have different ears.

Jo-Jo, When it comes to heavy speakers, I would recommend you look for something locally. You will save a significant amount on shipping, and you also won't have to worry about shipping damage. You can find what you want locally (or at least within driving distance), you just have to look for them.

Congrats Avman! BTW, your name always reminds me of Mavman (he's the acrobatic mascot that performs at Dallas Mavericks games). quote: Originally posted by avman: klipsch-so good it Hz! Funny!

My friend has Forte's and I have loaned him my Academy. It sounds great!! I would make the trade. If you ever want to sell it, I think the Academy will eventually have a bigger demand and fetch a higher price (maybe not today, but eventually).

Oh yeah . ... If the label on the back says "Cornwall II", then it's a Cornwall II, if it just says "Cornwall", then it's a Cornwall I.

HornEd, As long as they are in good condition, and are functional, they you got a very good deal (assuming the shipping costs weren't sky high). Remember that there were actually two "Cornwall II's). The first Cornwall II was from around the late '60's to early 70's. The later Cornwall II started in the early '80's until the Cornwall was retired (late '80's or early '90's). If I am not mistaken, if the horns and woofers are mounted flush on the front surface of the speaker, then you have the later Cornwall II's. If they are mounted from behind the front surface, and you can see the edge of the board where cutouts were made to mount the horns/woofers, then you have the Cornwalls I's. Also, I believe the Cornwall II's have a three-vent port and the Cornwall I's have a two-vent port.

As I mentioned in the other thread, plastic (polymeric) woofer baskets do have their advantages over metal one. The sonic advantage is that they are much less resonant than metal. This is a good thing! Just because something is made of plastic, doesn't necessarily mean it's of low quality. That probably used to be the case a long time ago, but there have been many advances made in the development of polymers (plastics) and composites. In fact, in some cases some polmers and composites are actually stronger than metals. Of course those are usually expensive, but they are out there. B&W, which has always been a highly regarded speaker manufacturer also uses polymeric baskets in their woofers. In fact, they brag about this feature! Yes, because it improves the sound -- plastic is less resonant than metal. You are familiar with Kevlar, right? You know, that material they use in bullet-proof jackets to stop bullets? Well it's a polymer. That's right, it's plastic!

Sorry, mine are in storage. Maybe when I'm able to get them setup, but that may be a while.

In regards to the "plastic" baskets giving out after 10, 20, or who know how many years, I agree that that could be a concern. However, we don't know that the problem is going to ever be a problem. It may very well not ever become a problem. Even if it does become a problem eventually, one thing for sure is that they will still sound better than stamped metal baskets. My personal preferance (may not be everyone's), would be to sacrifice the lifespan of the woofer for the sake of better sound quality (provided that lifespan is reasonable). If and when the basket ever does give out, I would just replace them with new ones. Of course that's me. My ARC amplifier is built with vacuum tubes that burn out over time, and I have to replace them if I want to continue to use it. ARC could have used solid state components that will last much, much longer than vacuum tubes, but they don't sound as good to me. So I'm willing to replace vacuum tubes periodically to maintain the better sound quality. I do agree with some of John Warren's opinions. My favorite Klipsch speakers are all in the Heritage line and it is my opinion that these are Klipsch's best speakers. All of these speakers were designed decades ago. I believe that none of the more recent designs have not surpassed the Heritage line and am disappointed that Klipsch really hasn't come out with anything that can really compete with the Heritage series. I think this is something that has happened since PWK sold the company and became less involved. The Forte and Chorus lines are more recent and were both very good speakers, but those are still ~15 year old designs. The Klipschorn Jubilee, which is being worked on by PWK, is something that provides some hope (pun not intended!). However, I do understand that Klipsch is in the business to make money. They have to be profitable in order to survive. It is very difficult to survive as an audio equipment company. Some very good companies have gone out of business (most recently, I heard that Hales Design Group filed for bankruptcy). So I can understand that Klipsch needs to have some products that are more "mainstream" in order to be profitable and to survive. As a Klipsch fan, I for one don't want to see Klipsch go out of business so I can live with some of their business practices and the products they put out. The report is that Klipsch is now #2 in sales dollars. I'm pretty sure they weren't that high back when they weren't "mainstream". My only hope is that they don't becoming another JBL and produce marginal home audio loudspeakers. At least they haven't gone that far and they still offer the Heritage line. Even their "mainstream" products are still pretty darn good within their price points in my opinion. Of course engineering is not the only factor at work. The best engineered products aren't always the most successful. The best marketed products usually are (Bose is the greatest example of that). There are a lot of examples of great engineered products that were defeated by lesser products. The copper colored cones are a result of marketing, not engineering. So, will the "LLC be around in 20 years to bail you out" when (if) your plastic woofer baskets give out? I don't know, but I sure hope they are. But in order for that to happen, they have to practice smart business and that probably means providing more "mainstream" products. I may not be completely happy with the direction Klipsch has gone, but at this point, I understand the reasoning and really can't criticize what they have done.

I agree with what Ray said. I can see that in theory the transport makes a difference. Afterall, it tracks the data from the disc and any vibrations or other anomalies can theoretically create loss of bits. However, does all that really affect the sound quality to an audible level? I don't know the answer to that. Of course, it's probably possible to build a multi-disc transport that is equal in sound quality to a single disc transport. It's just going to be more expensive. What I would say is, that you probably will be sacrificing sound quality by buying a multi-disc player. That is, assuming that you have a limited budget to spend on a player. If that is the case, and you can assume that the more you spend on a player, the better player you will get (not always the case of course), then you will get a better sounding player by buying a single disc player. Multiple disc players cost more money, so if you have a set amount of money to spend, some of your money will be going to the multiple-disc feature instead of to improved sound quality. Whether or not the transport itself makes any audible difference, that will be true. That is the reason I will only own single-disc players, cause they will (should) give me more sound quality for the money.

I first heard about Klipsh around 1985. All I knew was that they were supposed to be a great speakers and were also expensive (any speaker over $500 or so was expensive to me). I had neither had the chance to hear them or even listen to them until an assignment sent me to Guam and Klipsch was carried at the base exchange. They had La Scalas, Cornwalls, Heresies, Forte's, and KG4's on display. Boy those speakers were huge (LS/CW). With the military discount (and probably also the proximity to Japan), all audio equipment was extremely inexpensive so I decided to buy myself a good system. I had auditioned the Klipsch speakers and thought they sounded very good. They were clean and clear, very crisp sound. However, the narrow isles of the BX were not the greatest place to audition speakers, so they probably didn't sound as good as they were capable of. I also considered other brands, including Bose, JBL, CV, and even some of the Japanese speakers (in an effort to save $). Due to price and size constraints (I had to ship them back), I ended up with CV speakers. Most audio companies have representatives at the BX's in order to sell their products. Well the Klipsch rep. was probably different from all the others. This guy was not a salesman. In fact, you could tell he was an audiophile. He had the job because he enjoyed audio, not because he liked selling things. I had talked to him many times and I could tell he was very knowledgeable about audio, at least much more than I was. He never pushed the product, and was definitely not a salesman. The Bose rep., however, was a salesman! Well one day, the Klipsch rep. had rearranged things to work a little better in the narrow isles he had to work in. He had set up two La Scalas with two Cornwalls sitting on top of them. They were powered by Onkyo separates and the music he was playing was from a Nakamichi cassette deck. He was playing a drum solo that he said was "supposedly the best recording made" in terms of quality. The whole BX was "rockin'". I must say, at that point in time, my perspective of what an audio system is supposed to sound like changed forever. An audio system is not supposed to sound like an audio system, it's supposed to sound like live music! For the first time in my life, I heard an audio system sound like live music. It sounded like someone was playing the drums right there in front of me. I couldn't believe it. I know that drums are especially hard to make sound live, like there is a drumset right in front of you. I had never heard music sound so real coming from a set of speakers. From then on I was hooked. Although I didn't get to purchase them, La Scalas had always been in my dreams. Some people don't like the way they look, but I really think they look cool - especially if you get them with the top grill cloth. I got my first set of Klipsch speakers in 1991 (Cornwalls). As an "audiophool", constantly trying to improve the sound, I always considered getting something else and would audition speakers from companies like B&W, Apogee, Magneplanar, Thiel, Def. Tech, NHT, etc. These "high-end" speakers all sounded wonderful. Some I liked more than others, but they all sounded pretty darn good. However, none of them would bring me that "live" sound that my Cornwalls did (especially when I upgraded my electronics). Additionally, the speakers that sounded comparable, were always quite a bit more expensive. To me, I could not find a better speaker for my money and I still feel that way. There may be better speakers out there (maybe not?), but I'm pretty sure that anything better is going to cost magnitudes more. In general, I prefer the Heritage series. Most of the speakers I now own are from the Heritage series. Although I do think that the other lines also produce very good quality at their price points and could recommend any of the Klipsch models. This message has been edited by JMON on 07-21-2001 at 06:16 PM

Polymer means plastic. Believe it or not, when it comes to woofer baskets, plastic (er... Polymer) is actually BETTER than metal. Metal baskets resonate much, much more than plastic does. This really is an improvement!

There are very few products where I would base my purchase on Consumer Reports. Audio equipment (especially speakers) would probably be the very last thing I would trust them with. This of course is just my opinion. I think Mr-Bob hit the nail on the head. They judged these speakers based on taking measurements, not by using their ears to judge them. The guys measuring and rating speakers were probably the same guys measuring and rating washing machines last month. What does that tell you?

Sound Ideas is a first-rate store. It's unfortunate that they were unaware of the new Klipsch products. In my opinion, Sound Ideas is as good as it gets when it comes to audio stores. I was actually there recently and the salesmen remembered me and apologized for not remembering my name even though I hadn't been there in about 1-1/2 years. Unfortunately, it looks like Klipsch has become a less prominant line within their store. They still carry the products of course, but more and more floor space is allocated to Thiel, Magneplaner, and other brands. However, if you wander towards the back of the store you will find one of the original Klipschorns made from plywood. In general, when a company puts out a new product, it is up to that company to let their customers and distributors know about it. Distributors shouldn't have to continually probe their suppliers for information about upcoming new products. Introduction of new products should be accompanied by some type of "New Product Launch" marketing scheme. Of course sometimes that happens and some distributors are still unaware of the new product because they never bothered to read their mail. So in this case, either party may have dropped the ball. Next time you're in town, it might be fun to drive a couple of blocks down the street to check out the Avantgarde speakers at Sound & Cinema. I live in Dallas, and you can't find those speakers here -- New Mexico really isn't that backwards of a place...

paulaelliott, Yes, you can do what you said and it will be an improvement. However, during 2-channel listening, you will still be using the "preamp section" of your Sony receiver. For me, two-channel audio is my primary concern, and I will make sacrifices on the HT side. What I plan on doing is using a high quality preamp/poweramp setup for my two-channel audio. For HT, I will probably end up using an HT receiver with Front L&R preouts and connect those to one of my inputs on the preamp. I will have to adjust the volume on the preamp to the proper level for HT use, which isn't ideal, but at least my 2-channel audio will not be compromised. Of course all of my 2-channel audio components will be connected directly to the preamp, and not going through the HT receiver. The video sources will be the only devices connected to the HT receiver. This setup will provide me with no comppromises on my 2-channel system, and still allow me to use an HT system.

If your budget allows, get the RC-7.

Bill, which store did you go into?

Actually, I think it may have been that Brittish company, Monitor Audio...

This is something that I have been wondering myself lately. I'm not all that interested in knowing the production numbers of every model made, but it would be neat to know just how many Klipshorns are out in the world.

HornEd, Good idea making any mods reversible! I'm sure you'll let us all know how you project turns out. I sure hope the the side of the funny farm that we're on is the one we want to be on!

Storm, Welcome to Klipsch! Glad to hear that you like the sound. I applaud you for taking the time to go out and actually hear for yourself what Klipsch sounds like, and not believing what other people may have told you. I believe that there are too many people out there, who have heard from someone that "horns are harsh, blah blah blah, etc. etc. etc.", yet they never actually hear for themselves, and continue to believe that they are not good speakers. Then they write them off as bad speakers and never even consider them or audition them when it comes time to make a purchase. I will say that it is very important to match them with the right electronics. You will find that poor electronics can make them sound bad and good electronics will do wonders. Klipsch speakers are very revealing, so you get what you put in. I also hope that you get to demo the Heritage line someday. Unfortunately, it's not likely that you will be able to do that at a dealer's showroom. You will most likely have to find someone who owns them to listen to them. I will tell you that the Heritage line, when mated with good electronics and good recordings can sound amazing. Congratulations and Welcome!

Kain, In order to provide good recommendations, we really need to know what your size limitations are, and what you price range is. Without that information, we really can't give you good suggestions.