EdmundGTP

Thanks for the positive feedback! Yeah I noticed on that one I had the assembly situated at a weird angle so the perspective looked off a bit. Being that theyre 3D models in an assembly I can orbit around the speaker to view it at any angle, add/delete parts, do cross sections. The wood grain is actually a programmed in surface texture for mahogany. I need to make an assembly for the left one, then I can add those to the assemblyI have done of my entire house.

Finally got around to drawing up the replacement plate which will take the place of the amplifier.

I had heard at some point that the typical reason for failure in these amps is due to aging circuit board component, but I dunno how certain that is. I got on parts express and ordered all the adapters and plugs and cables I think I'll need. Just need to order an amp now. Once the binding posts I ordered arrive, I can finish drawing up the replacement plate which will fit where the amplifier was. Also been drawing the rest of the speaker up in 3D CAD while researching parts and stuff. Should have some more cool renderings as I finish drawing more parts.

Yeah, better safe than sorry. I'm thinking this might be a good addition to the signal chain. Reckhorn B-1 That will also let me gain back some of the adjustability that I'd have lost by removing the KSP amps

Hmm. I was under the impression that over-excursion wasnt typically an issue with sealed enclosures?

Ahh thanks for the heads-up on that. Is the fan like a typical 80mm computer case fan, like this? Or something fancier?? The fan in my roomate's Xbox 360 is annoyingly loud as well, and I've been putting up with that for a while now. Oh and aside from the fan noise, how did they perform in general? Also just looked at the Behringer EP 1500. Seems fairly comparable

To be honest, I haven't made much of an effort to get in touch with anyone from Klipsch with regards to what I've been working on here. I did contact tech. support about a year ago when my one amp first started going on the fritz. The gist of the conversation I had was pretty much what we all know now; that Klipsch no longer stocks replacement parts for these, and that they contract out their repair work on them to a couple different electronics repair companies. So I did as they suggested and sent it in for repair. Back then, I mentioned the idea of using a different, or external amp, and they (can't specifically recall who I spoke with, maybe Stephen?) didn't seem terribly keen on having an inclination as to whether or not it would work, nor did they have any immediate knowledge of anyone else who did so. So I dunno. That sort-of lukewarm response on the idea discouraged me from digging much deeper in that direction. At the same time I can understand their position, in that once a serious change is made to the speaker (i.e. amp replacement etc.) then it really becomes a product that they can no longer "guarantee" optimum performance on, or really stand behind in the service/warranty sense. But if you, or anyone else for that matter, happens to know of anyone at Kilpsch or somehere else who is "in the know" on these speakers, I'd be more than willing to share/seek any info as I try out this amp swap deal. Comparatively speaking, it is a fairly small group of us here who have these speakers, and I really do love them, just as I'm sure the others do. What it boils down to is, I want to find a way to make them work well, and reliably, for as long as humanly possible, and unfortuantely the original amps dont seem to be conducive to such. Now with that being said, I know that I personally don't have the extensive knowledge of amplifiers, components, and measuring to really even be taking this project on, but present circumstances put me in a good position to do it. So I'll probably have a few questions for our more knowledgable members along the way. The thing I'm trying to figure out now, is which of the amplifiers that I listed above would be best for this project. I've looked over the manuals and specs for all of them and they all seem fairly comparable. The Crown XTi being the most expensive, but also having a lot of bells and whistles that seem unnecessary for this project. So if anyone reading has some input there, I'd be happy to hear it. Also nice to see this thread finally gaining a little steam. Stay tuned for updates. [<)]

Just found another contender. Crown XLS202D

Yeah trying the 3 prong to 2 prong plug swap is a good place to start. Though I suspect, that if you've been using 3 prong plugs so far, and havent had the hum previously, that just switching the plugs probably wont fix it. Then again, you never know. It really is the first and cheapest trouble shooting step to all of this. I had always been running my KSP's with a 3 to 2 prong plug converter to avoid ground loop hum, which coincidentally sounds EXACTLY like the hum you get when the amp fails. Yeah, I looked around at some of the various plate amps that are on the market. Didnt seem like any of them would be either a direct or "easy" retro-fit. I'm sure the KSW amp would be up to the task, but they seemed rather pricey compared to some other simpler amplifiers. There's three standalone 2 channel amps that I'm looking at right now. Crown XTi1000 Those seem to run $350-400 Samson SX1200 $260-350 Samson PG2200 Also in the mid-high $200's All have roughly the same output (200-300 watt range) into 8 Ohms per channel, which I'm fairly certain is the impedance of the sub itself. Funny, you mention it; I too actually have a saved ebay search for Klipsch KSP parts that might come up. Removing the amp from the speaker is actually very simple. If you look closely at the heatsink on the rear of the speaker there are 8 phillips screws situated between the fins along the periphery of the heatsink. Those are all that hold the actuall amp portion in. To remove it, you'll want to remove the lower six screws first, and the top three last. This is because the weight of the amp might actually cause it to fall out of the speaker while you're loosening screws, so be ready to catch it and support it when you're taking out the last ones. On the other hand, there is a thin foam type seal that goes between the heat sink and the speaker cabinet, and the amp may very well be "stuck" in place by that seal. If that's the case just remove all 8 screws and pull firmly but carefully at one of corners of the heatsink and it should separate itself from the cabinet. Again, be ready to catch/support it in case it breaks free suddenly. Once the amp is detached youll notice a few wires making their way down a hole in the amp cavity. The 2 red ones are power wires. The green and black ones are the sub speaker leads. There is also a cable with multiple small guage wires bundled together which has a white plug on the end. Those are the low level signal, and control wires that go to the inputs and knobs on the lower control panel. That white plug can be removed from the circuit board. The 2 red power cables are attached to the amp by 2 white plastic screw down terminals. To remove those, just loosen the 2 small flat-head screws in the terminals and the wires should come free. The green and black wires are the tricky part. They are soldered directly to the board and from there go straight to the sub and are connected by spade connectors. To disconnect them without cutting them you have 2 options. Youll either have to remove the lower control panel, or remove the sub itself to get inside the cabinet and pull the connectors off of the subwoofer. Unless you're quadruple jointed, your hand cant reach them from the amp cavity. The control panel can be removed by taking out the screws running along the edges of the panel. The other ones located slightly further "inside" the panel surface hold the control unit itself together, and dont need to be removed to get the unit free of the cabinet. Again, it may be stuck in place by the seal and you might have to gently pry at one of the corners to get it free. Same with the sub. If you decide to remove the sub, it's generally safest to remove the lower-most screw last, and be prepared to support the weight of the woofer as you loosen that last one. Also you may have to pry the sub free due to the same seal. When you replace any of those items it will probably be worthwhile to replace the seals with something better. I've had really good luck using a "bead" of this Mortite Caulking Cord It's a putty or modeling clay-like seal which is easy to mold into place on the back of the amp, control panel, and the sub itself. If you look back at the pic I posted, it's that white stuff surrounding the cutouts for the amp and control panel. Though once you bolt those parts back to the cabinet using this stuff, it's CONSIDERABLY harder to pry them back off if you have to remove them again. I've done it a couple times now. Sounds more complicated than it really is. And its way easier to move the amp and control panel by themselves, than moving the entire speaker around.

It strikes again!! [8o|] How frustrating eh? Think you'll end up sending the amp in for repair or try to work out a fix of your own like I'm about to? I can give ya the contact info of the place that repaired mine the past 2 times, though based on the fact that mine isnt working at all right now, that may sway your opninion on sending it to them.

Yeah thats true about the value without the orig. amps. Though I realistically plan on keeping these for as long as possible and am not terribly concerned with maintaining value. The other thing is, all the changes I have in mind right now are 100% reversible to bring the speakers back to OEM spec if need be. At this point I think I'm gonna proceed with trying out the external amp route. Though I think I'll still check with HarryO to see what exactly he might have available. Having spare parts never hurts! Thanks for the input!

Well presently I have no other sub besides the ones in the KSPs, so I was hoping to keep those functioning as such, and maybe at some point down the road, supplement the sub-30hz range with an additional larger sub. Prior to all these amp problems I was simply running the KSPs off of my receivers speaker outputs alone, using the jumper bars to link the high, low, and mid inputs on the control box on the back of the speaker. So no LFE input usage there. Getting back to the problem with the amp, I'm not even sure if the problem is with the amp itself, or with the control box. Being that the unit doesnt power on at all, or even make an attempt to do anything when plugged in, I think the issue could be in either of those two electronic parts. Right now I'm really leaning towards pulling both amps out of the KSPs, and powering the woofers with an external amp, using my receivers LFE output, then I'll just split the LFE output to an additional sub when I get around to buying it. My room is 13 X 19, with one end opening up to 9 X 10 room, so roughly 340 square feet to cover or 2700 cu. ft. to fill with sound. Not a 'small" room but not a HUGE one either I guess.

Your first bi-amping suggestion, is (i think) very similar to what I'm thinking of doing, except I'm not sure what signal I'd use for the bass aside from the sub output on my receiver. In your particular setup, are the subs of the KSP's actually doing anything/are their amps being used? And aside from getting the original KSP amp fixed, I'm trying to determine a way to bypass it all together. In other words; remove the finicky piece of electronics from the equation. This other guy you mentioned with the amps. Is he selling original KSP-400 sub amps? or remanufactured units? or what exactly? Oh and I actually designed and had those feet made custom. I made a thread about that a little while back too, I think. Yah here it is: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/117906/1191995.aspx

Here ----> http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/111984/1251072.aspx#1251072 I posted this link to my post in the other forum category, since it has become more related to powered subs than anything else. That and this category seems to get significantly more traffic. If one of the mods would like to move that post from there to here, I'd be cool with that too. [H] Thanks guys.

Did a little bit of experimentation last night. Wanted to see how easy it would be to run the internal subs of the KSP-400's with an external amplifier. Sort of an off-shoot of what I was thinking about in this thread: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/117272/1188843.aspx Basically turn them into Bi-Ampable non-powered towers. I did this on the one that stopped working in the post above, since it was already taken apart. I've taken these damned things apart so many times, I could probably do it in my sleep by now. First thing I found out is that with the amp section completely removed, the subwoofer disconnected, and with the lower control panel completely un-powered (i.e. no power cord), the upper portion (mids and horn) of the speaker worked perfectly. At first I was unsure whether or not the lower control panel would allow the mids and horn to play without having the circuitry of the amp and subwoofer connected. Turns out the mids and horn can be ran completely independent of the sub. So next I decided to see how it would sound running a separate amp to the sub, using my receivers sub output, while playing the mids and horn using the right channel speaker output of the receiver. This is the odd looking rig you can see in the pic below. Notice the KSP-400 amp laying on the floor, and the power cord and signal cables removed from the lower control box. That piece of tupperware in the original amp cavity in the back of the speaker is holding all of the screws so they don't get lost, in case anyone was curious. I ran my main receiver's sub output to ANOTHER receiver that I had laying around, and ran the output from that to the sub. The 2nd receiver was only good for about 100 watts and didn't offer as much actual gain as a standalone amplifier would but it worked! So now I'm thinking, I'll have a pair of aluminum plates machined to cover and seal the amp cavities in the backs of the speakers, with provisions for binding posts which will have leads running to the subwoofer. Ill replace the lower control boxes as they are shown in the pic; no power connected, no sub connection, no signal wires. Just the 2 pairs of leads that run from the box to the mids and horns. Then buy a standalone 2 channel amp (Crown XTi 1000, or Samson SX1200). Run my sub output from the main receiver to the amp, then wire leads from the amp to the new binding posts on the backs of the KSP's. The loss of bass management controls on the lower box, I think could be remedied by the addition of the Elemental Designs eq.2 in the subwoofer pre-amp signal path (if that's even necessary). All of these changes would be 100% reversible to the speakers' original configuration if the results aren't what I expect. And worst case, if it doesn't work out, I can just sell the amp and eq.2 for at a negligible loss and send the KSP amp in for repair. So I either do all that, OR JUST send the amp back for a 3rd time, and hope it can be repaired. I may be wrong, but I'm guessing theres only SO many times that a piece of electronics can be "operated on" and repaired before it's just no good anymore. What would you folks suggest? I really find it hard to believe that nobody has tried this sort of thing before.

Well, looks like that amp is gonna be going back for repair a 3rd time.[8o|][8o|] After the 2nd repair it worked flawlessly for about 5 months. Now the problem is that it does absolutely NOTHING when plugged in. Fuse is good (not blown), tried multiple power cords, and multiple outlets, it simply does nothing; no lights, no noises, no clicks, no hums, no smoke, and no weird smells. Pulled the amp guts out of the speaker and gave them a once-over and I didn't come across anything glaringly obvious problems (i.e. disconnected wire(s), signs of damaged components), so back it goes. Feels like I'll never catch a break with these damned things.. [][] Hopefully it wont be too long before I have it back and have another update here..

AWESOME!! Thanks!!

According to the sticker on the back they are mahog.

Appreciate the positive comments guys. Thanks. Here's a few more for no reason at all.

It's just some standard medium and large diameter corrugated split loom for wiring. I also used some of the spiral wrap style wire loom as well. It looks much cleaner when all the power cords and audio cords are routed and loomed together, mindful of running the power and low voltage signal wires separately of course. It used to be a giant rat's nest back there. My anal-retentive nature couldn't stand it like that for very long.

Really? Any possible way you could scan that for me?

Quick pic.. I'll try to get around to posting some more at some point.

Yeah I know.. Super old topic. Was anyone ever able to verify that May 1998 was the right issue? And if so, does anyone have a copy? Thanks!

Pan head? Boring!!! Get yourself some sweet socket head cap screws, or if you want to be extra-fancy, get some mil spec 12 point aircraft screws. They'll run you a few bucks a piece but they will look bad-assed fo sho. For the icing on the cake you can get the heads cross drilled and then have a mechanic safety wire them in place for you so the vibrations don't back them out! [] Give it a look sort of like the circular bolt pattern on this rig.

man, that guy's got some seriously loud carpet.