Q-Man

Thank you everyone. I see this Forum is just like it used to be. Everyone helping each other out. Mark at Paduch Home Theater had me give him a dimensional drawing of my room, and my speaker layout. He is giving it to the commercial design department and they are supposed to get back with him or me with their recommendations. Time to put the LaScalas and Klipschorns for sale. Can't believe that it has been about 20 years since I changed anything but the sub and TV.

I'm not sure if this will work, so please bare with me. I had trouble logging in so I found one of my old post to reply to. Life got busy with opening up a cabinet business and I didn't make too many changes to my system. I also haven't been in contact with the good friends and people on this Forum that helped me out with my modifications. I may mention names later. I'm finally going to get into Dolby Atmos and purchased a different processor to do so. Also getting ready to buy some different equipment. Next purchase will be the Magnetar UPD-800 Blu-ray player. I have been trying to purchase some Klipsch Cinema Surround speakers, but I'm having trouble finding a dealer. I have to search a little harder. I'm thinking of the KPT-12-VB, KPT-8-VB, Kpt-1200-VBM . I need 2 surrounds, and I might use them for 4 ceiling mounted Atmos speakers. Have to see what kind of frequency response is actually sent to the those Atmos channels. With these changes I'm going to sell 2 pairs of LaScalas , 1 pair of Klipschorns. The Klipschorns are stock, they used to be my benchmark speaker that I used when modifying other speakers. I havent listened to them in years. The LaScalas are my front and rear height speakers which I can't use as surrounds and ceiling speakers. I'll probably list these in the Garage sale section one of these days before going to eBay. That's all I'm going to say for now. I want to see if this reply post. Then I'll try starting a new one. I have to search the members list to see if some of the old timers like me are still active here. May have to change my old pass word, and email address. Q-Man

In my home theater I cross over to the sub at 45hz. I have Klipschorns and an Epik Conquest subwoofer. In my rather large room the 45hz cut off sounds best. At 40hz the bass is lacking, at 50hz the bass begins to sound muddy. Once your set up, just sit back and and listen to music and movies and play with the crossover setting in your AV processor or receiver. Also listen at different volume levels. Crank up the volume and change the crossover settings on the fly. The perfect crossover point for your speakers and room will be easy to hear. Q.

Times do change. I'm now using the Epik Conquest subwoofer. An 18" driver in a big ported box. It's the best subwoofer that I've had, so far. It comes close, but it can't keep up with Klipschorns. Now there is the Tuba HT horn loated sub. The 36" wide one should be worth a try. There is also Danley Labs DTS-10. A tapped horn. This one has my attention.

What was your reason for selecting that driver, since Bill recommends using the Dayton DVC 385-88? Q

What driver do you have in it? Q.

I think that John was talking about measuring the resistance of the individual drivers. An 8 ohm driver will measure about 6 ohms, and a 16 ohm driver will measure about 11 ohms. A combination of drivers and networks in a speaker could measure anything. You would have to ask the manufacture what the dc resistance of the whole speaker should measure. I bought a pair of Altec 288-16K midrange drivers a while back when I was doing some experimenting. Before I tried them I measured the resistance. One measured 11 ohms and the other 6 ohms. This told me that someone replaced the diaphragm in the 6 ohm one with a 8 ohm diaphragm. I opened it up and found an 8 ohm diaphragm. Did the seller know this? I don't know. I need to call Bill at Great Plains Audio and order a 16 ohm diaphragm, so I can sell them as a pair. If I remember correctly, Trey once told me that the LaScala should measure around 3.4 ohms. I used this when I was buying LaScalas as a quick test.

I was thnking about this last night. I have a lot of VHS family videos and I want to put them on DVD's. Maybe we should be thinking about putting them on Blu-ray???

I bought the WD65835 from best buy last Dec., and I had the Geek Squad come out and calibrate it. Couldn't be happier with DLP. It has a better picture then my two ( also new) Samsung LCD's.

Good observation, or imagination. I never looked at them that way before.

I hope that you really don't think that I'm making fun of you with the K402 horn. I'm just interested in the bass horn at this time. If I din't have my tops, I would be going with the K402.

This is the best that I can do. My room is dark, I brought in some extra lighting to help, but now you can see that I should have done some dusting first. I included a few pics of the center channel, so you can see the 290 driver and the horn not in an inclosure. The horn inclosure isn't mounted on a flat surrface ( baffle) like Altec did with it's smaller horns that they used for their home speaker systems. This horn was mainly used in auditoriums, stadiums, and concert halls. I should do something to make the tweeter look better, but It's my room and hardly anyone but me uses it. I'm also always changing things, it's just been a while. The Jub bass horns may make me change again. http://i31.tinypic.com/99f7rm.jpg

Just a side comment.... the main reason Klipsch sells the Jubilee as a 3-way is to maximize its output for cinema/stage type use. I can only ask that you trust me when I tell you that the Jubilee in the 2-way format is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY enough for any residential use. Especially if you want to keep your hearing intact. In my opinion, one benefit of staying 2-way is you drop a crossover point and when all this engineering comes together, what you find (or what I found to be more specific), My Khorns needed a bit of room for the sound to come together as a singular wave front (I also had the 2404 tweet and Al K's extreme slope crossovers) At 30' away, my Khorns were liquidity personified but when I was in the same room with them (open floor plan) I could discern differences among the drivers. With the Jubilees being 2-way, using some signal alignment on the drivers, my Jubilees sound as good in the room as they do 30' away. Put differently, they sound better in the room than my Khorns did in the same room. True, true, true. I agree with everything that you have to say. I also know the the Jubilee bass horn was designed to go higher just for that reason. The Jubilee bass horn may be different, but I never heard one that sounded as good as a midrange horn upwards of 350 Hz. That is the reason I want a to use my top hat. I'm going to first try crossing over at 400 Hz. Tell me that I'm not an old school Klipschorn guy. I have a combined kitchen and family room now. The family room is 17 x 30 with a 42" high bar top wall between it and the 17 x 20 kitchen. I always notice how good the Klipschorns sound from 30 to 50 feet away.

As has been said...what I found so interesting about doing that (via using the defeat buttons on my Dx) is just how sucky both parts sound on their own. Had I heard either half on its own I would have NEVER felt it could be part of a nice sounding system. I still get impressed when I cut them out to listen to a single horn. This also had me wondering.... for someone like Roy who's been around horns for a few weeks, can he hear two different single horns and without the rest of the spectrum, know by ear that one is a decent sounding horn relative to the other. Does that make sense? It is amazing! I used to keep one room set up with a stock Klipschorn in one corner to use as my reference speaker. I would A/B other bass horns, midrange horns and drivers againts it. I also used to listen to the midrange horns and drivers alone to try to narrow down what I was hearing. I would call my kids into the room when I wanted another opinion. When I singled out a driver or horn they would hate it and tell me how crappy they sounded.

I'll take some new pictures and post them for you.

W Yep! crappie horns, crappie equipment, crappie recordings(monitered on crappie loudspeakers/equipment, crappie studio acoustics, tailored sound to play back on crappie equipment in crappie enviroments and just plain crappie taste). Plenty of crap to go around! mike tn not to mention some crappie ears.... I'm not sure if I'd advise calling the engineer with questions 'hey man I'm ripping off your design and wanted to steal a bit of your time also...' Just my .02. He might be busy working on income-producing projects for the company he works for. Would you like to explain how buying the Jubilee bass horns and mating them to my top section is ripping off his design?

I think I've got it now. Talk to Roy. Right? [] TAD drivers, huh. Top notch and expensive. I never heard them. My day may come, but first I want to try my stuff. My cost for the top hats were around $ 2,900.00 a pair, and that doesn't include the curved top inclosure that I built to match the shape of the mid-range horn. The 311-90 horn is well sought after. That horn and the 329-A are known as the best sounding horns that Altec made. On ebay they go for around $950.00 and up for a pair. It took me a while to get three pairs, because some people are willing to pay much higher then that. DJK once told me that when you hear a sax played thru this horn, that you have to wipe the spit off of your face. I had to try it after hearing that. The networks were around $ 1,000.00 a pair, and everyone knows that the JBL 2404-H tweeters are $ 500.00 a pair. The 311-90 is as big as I wanted to go. it's 2" less than the width of the Klipschorn which left me just enought room for the cabinet. They are about 13" high. I mounted the tweeter below the mid-range horn. I wanted it at ear level when seated. Something I would concider doing with the 3 way Jubilee with that 402 horn. I built the Imperial and the University bass horns, because people told me about them, and I read about how these horns got it right. Now you guys have me wanting to try the Jub. The difference is that I can buy the Jub. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions.

Are you talking about the Cinema commercial version, or the home version that klipsch decided not to offer? It looks like Roy helped out those of you with the Jub. Is that right? Those who built the Jub., where did the plans come from? Those who bought the Jub. Have the commercial version? I'll have to email Klipsch or Roy with some questions. I emailed some of the commercial dealers last week, but havn't heard back from any of them.

Coytee, I have a small cabinet shop/ showroom. I do kitchens, bathrooms, and such for local home builders. Then I also remodel kitchens. Times arn't good, but remodels are taking off again. You may recall that I spent about two years trying different midrange drivers and horns to use with my Klipschorns. Thank God for ebay, you buy them, you try them, and sell them for the same price that you payed for them. It's great for trying out a lot of different equipment. Once I found the right combination for my taste, I shipped them all to John Warren to design the network for them. I couldn't have done this without him. I loved the sound improvement with my make shift networks. As soon as I received his networks I did an A/B comparison with what I was listening with. Another veil was lifted. My tops make the stock Klipschorns sound like you stuffed pillows in the horns. We don't need to go there. They are worth trying first. Then it would be nice to compare them to the K402. No K510 for me. I learned long ago that I like my theater area to use identical speakers all around. I'm buying, or the bank is, a larger building. I will have more shop room, so I'm thinking of building bass horns again. I want to experiment again, and settle on one to use in my new theater room. I built the Jensen Imperial, and I going to consider that one too, the bass is a lot more powerfull then the Kipschorns. I built the Universisy Classic, or Dean. That one makes be drool. The mid bass is so clean and punchy, but it also has a hollow sound that I'm not sure is right. Reading about you guys and the Jubilee is making me want to throw that one in the mix. Then I will set up all four bass horns with my tops and A/B them. The winner will go into the theater. It's great to go somewhere to listen to a speaker, but you really need to have them in the same room. A plus with this new building is that I'll also have a 24' by 55' room to put a theater/kitchen in. I may move in there. If I do, the center channel speaker will go behind a screen. I havn't been on the Forum for some time. That is because I stopped experimenting and didn't have much to share. I became very satisfied with the sound of my system, and I ran out of room to play. Thanks for the invite.

Thankyou for your information, but I'm not interested in the tops. My tops could be close too, equal, or better then the tops the Jubilee uses. I'm only interested in the bass horn for now. I just did a search for the Jubilee. It said that I have selected a discontinued product.

Since you say that there really isn't a correct set of plans for the Jubilee, what does Klipsch sell the bass horn for? It might be time to try a pair. I'm very happy with the tops that I use on my 3 pairs of Klipschorns. The Altec 290-16K drivers mated to the Altec 311-90 horns and the JBL 2404H tweeter. I would first try them with the Jubille. It's a waste to have 6 Klipschorn tops and networks taking up space in the closet. I could put the 3 pairs of Klipschorns back together and sell them. I could buy a single Jubilee and take it apart and do a little reverse engineering, then build 6 of them. Or, maybe Klipsch will cut me a deal if I buy 6 of them.

Disconnect the driver leads, and put an ohm meter on it. A 16 ohm driver ( which it is) should read about 11 ohms. A "0" reading, you have a problem with the driver. If the driver is around 11 ohms switch it with the driver in the other LaScala ( just un-screw it). If the driver works in the other LaScala then start checking the conections in the network. If you don't have an ohm meter, just switch the drivers.

Bump, Sorry to all you old timers, but someone asked me to find this old post for them.

The Sunfire subs arn't enought for LaScalas. Look at http://www.epiksubwoofers.com Great bang for the buck. The Conquest will work.

I have worked for a kitchen cabinet manufacturer and installation company for 22 years. I also have had my own cabinet business for ten years. Four years ago I was doing well enought that I almost quit my full time job. Then the housing market took a dive and I decided that I better still do both. The housing market started dropping off in 2005 here in Florida on the Space Coast. I think we saw this coming before anyone. 2005 business down 10% from 2004 2006 " " 10% from 2005 2007 " " 30% from 2006 2008 " " 40% from 2007 Were dowm 90% from 2004 In 2005 I lost my $ 10,000.00 per year bonus In 2006 I took a 10% pay cut, In 2007 I took another 10% pay cut and the company stopped contributing to my 401K . In 2008 I took another 10% pay cut. We are operating with 1/4 of our original employees, and that's still too many to have for our work load. In four months we may be closing the doors. I'm now buying a building to run my own business out of. Bank of America laughted at me when I went in for a business loan. I found a small local bank that is giving me a loan. The building that I am buying is dual zoned, meaning that I can also live in it if I need to. If business gets worse I may have to sell my house in order to pay off the business loan and move into the building. Then hopefully things will turn around in a couple of years and I can will be able to build another house. It's back to survival mode.