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Everything posted by etc6849

  1. If anyone is looking for an Audyssey Pro kit only, please PM me an offer (be sure to include your zip). I can ship the kit double boxed from 29063 or you are welcome to come and purchase it in person. Once I sell the kit, I can sell the AV8801 at a great price.
  2. Thanks. I don't feel so crazy adding three XPR mono blocks and two XPR stereo amps to my theater now! Definitely, peaks sound better to me. That makes the Emotiva XPR-1 amps seem small in comparison! They are really a great sounding amp. My average cost on the three is about $1000/amp versus $140k/amp for the MC2KW's?!? "Some of the features offered by the XPR-1 include: Fully balanced; fully differential - for the ultimate in audio purity and performance. Superb sound quality - as with all Emotiva amplifiers, the XPR-1 was designed first and foremost to deliver outstanding sound quality. Massive output power - 1000 watts into 8 ohms; 1750 watts into 4 ohms, of real continuous power. Optimized Class H™ operation - with independently tracking power supply rails, provides better efficiency and cooler operation than Class A/B (and even other types of Class H designs), with no sacrifice in sound quality. Huge power supply - with an enormous 2.5 kVA toroidal power transformer and 240,000 microfarads of energy storage, ensures stunning dynamic capabilities, and no loss of power under virtually any signal or load conditions. Totally stable - with virtually all real-world speaker loads."
  3. This is very interesting! Thanks!
  4. EDIT: Also now selling the ATI AT2007 amp that went with this: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/161097-ati-at2007-7-channel-multichannel-fully-differential-amp-2300/ I can make someone a great deal if they do a cash local pickup deal... This set up is about a year old and retailed for a lot more than what I'm asking. Buyer will pay all shipping costs and paypal transaction costs if an official paypal invoice is desired. Local pickup near Columbia, SC is preferred. I've sold several items here, and you can also check my ebay feedback under etc6849. Notes: The Audyssey Pro license is linked to the serial number of the Marantz. I'll transfer my kit into your name and provide you login credentials. After that you can change the account username and password, etc... You MUST have a paypal verified address (if you want it shipped) or pay in cash in person. My paypal address is verified so you would have buyer protection if you wanted to pay for paypal's invoice fee. I caught a room treatment on the door, so it is bent slightly as shown. Not noticeable unless viewing from the side and up close, but it's pictured for full disclosure. Everything else is as new. The Audyssey Pro kit and license alone would set you back $700. Includes a calibrated preamp, mic, stand, lots of cables and adapters, CD, etc... It is the latest Audyssey Pro kit, so you can download MultiEQ Version 4 for free. The Audyssey Pro kit was bought brand new by me from a distributor, but the serial cable that came with it was buggy under Windows 7. I'm providing a replacement cable that includes a gender changer. I will look for the original cable to include also, but I may have tossed it. Technical highlights: This setup will calibrate duals subs calibrated to work together better than any EQ system I've tried. Even Dirac can't handle multiple subs as well as Audyssey Sub EQ HT. The subs are individually pinged (true individual sub 1 and 2 channels), then combined and calibrated as one. The Audyssey Pro kit provides a US made and calibrated mic and preamp, necessary cables, Samson mic stand, etc... The Marantz AV8801 has many awesome features not found on other processors unless you spend a lot more: http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=avseparates&ProductId=AV8801 Let's make a local pickup combo deal! Also selling the following: Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor ATI AT2007 7 channel amp Pioneer PL-530 turntable plus free records Two Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofers ECM8000 mic M-Audio mic preamp Yamaha RX-V1300 and some other stuff including bedroom furniture so bring a trailer
  5. http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html Gives the attached showing ~760 watts assuming 94.5dB sensitivity. I just put in one speaker to be conservative, as the peak will likely come from just one channel (I think), although it could come from multiple channels at once for a movie I suppose. I still plan to measure things in a week or two, and can post some screen shots. I just have to finish rearranging my rack and clean up my office first and post things to sell. I'm going to start my testing on some cheap speakers and amp first though
  6. Thanks Gary! I'm going to try and see if I can set up my digital oscilloscope up to give me a calculated instantaneous power output using v(t)*i(t). I have an isolation transformer, so I feel safe hooking it up to the speaker terminals on the amp. I will treat all grounds on the scope as energized... For sure I can measure instantaneous voltage and estimate instantaneous power. The 99dB at 1 meter from 2.38V is what Klipsch provides, and could be just for a 1kHz sine wave?: http://images.klipsch.com/p39f_-_Spec_Sheet_635738653350358000.pdf I think technically the sensitivity should change when real life music is played (as we don't listen to just a single sine wave)? Also, my original post should have pointed out these speakers are rated at 4 ohms, and not 8 ohms... doh! Regardless, I definitely hear a difference on peaks of certain songs. At these peaks, things don't sound harsh anymore, but they would before. Before, I would always grab the remote and lower the volume during these peaks, but don't anymore... The problem is I've rerun dirac in between changing the amps out, so there are other variables to consider.
  7. Thanks. Yes these are manual recline, but they require near zero clearance on the back.
  8. Palliser Sequelle Home Theater 3 Seats (model 41901) LOCAL PICKUP CASH ONLY NEAR COLUMBIA, SC Color: Grade 2000 Tulsa Dusk (aka black leather) http://4seating.com/palliser-home-theater-seats/images/tulsa-dusk-img.jpg I've used these for a while, but they are just too big for my spare bedroom/tv room so I bought smaller chairs. These can be reconfigured as one, two or three seats. Originally these were over $2000 in 2008. These are very nicely made and made in Canada using high grade leather. You can even order more pieces new as needed. These are NOT in any way some cheaply made theater seats. Approximate dimensions: 108" long (configured as pictured) x 42" tall x 40" deep Mostly just one chair was used, so the other two are in new condition! No tears or rips or cracking and they look great. Kid free and smoke free home; my dogs were never on these or in the same room. If you already have Palliser home theater furniture that is the same leather and color, but have different seats, the arms alone are worth buying and then you could order your specific seats as they are all interchangeable.
  9. Unfortunately, I know all to well about the loudness war Which is why I said what CD can do, and not that all remasters sound better than vinyl. There's likely still better options than vinyl though if one checks HDTracks and the other sites to see if there are any digital downloads of the original analog masters. The Chesky audiophile test track I mention in the OP doesn't even use the full DR of what a CD can technically do, but it's one of the more dynamic tracks that I have!
  10. I'm concerned only with transients/DR as my post points out. I'm not sure what frequencies a gun shot or explosion in a movie would have... Have you done an FFT or spectrogram to see what frequencies are involved or is your post talking about a pure sine wave? I definitely have no plans of ever sending a pure sine wave through my speakers at 115dB! That'd be nuts... All of my REW testing is done at ~90dBA or lower.
  11. I agree. I wish vinyl would just die already. Its DR is definitely inferior to what a CD can do. As my original post stated, the highest track I have measured 45dB for DR, so I believe you guys. I think movies are a different animal though and may exceed 60dB of DR, I just haven't analyzed a movie sound track before to know for sure.
  12. If 115dB is what I need, this means I really do need a big amp according to this online calculator. I have read online some music such as a symphony can have a DR of 60dB, so this makes since if you assume a room's noise floor is 55dB (55dB + 60dB= 115dB). Definitely some of the movies I've watched this week and last sound really really good and have benefitted from the bigger amps. This is a subjective comment though.
  13. Thanks! I was thinking about this on the way home and finally remembered it finally from circuit theory 12 years ago! If I remember right, we modeled this resistance as Rinternal or Rin as it is a resistance internal to a non-ideal voltage source. So if someone is reading my previous post Rout should really be Rin for the purposes of clarity.
  14. I like your thinking here. It sounds like you are proposing I use a circuit similar to what's below to model how a real world non-ideal amp behaves? Doing this shows that the voltage across Zspkr would indeed drop (due to the additional voltage drop across Rout as Iamp(t) is increased as Zspkr drops). This seems like a decent way to think of it to me, thanks! I think the rail voltage comes into play when this new current demanded by the lowered Zspkr cannot be adequately supported by the amps power supply. This would lower the rail voltage of the amp. I think this would result in clipping depending on if Vamp(t) is greater than this new lower rail voltage. Is this the right way to think about it?
  15. Wow, just looked up the DBX BX-1 you mention. Nice amp! I wouldn't mind having one for my sides and backs. I only have three XPR-1's right now (FL, C, FR), but put up some wanted ads. Seems like a nice amp for what they sell for used. I would not have believed a post like yours before I owned one of these monster amps, but I am hearing the same thing you are describing, and seeing the VU meter almost peak on these XPR-1's, even with my P-39f's crossed at 80Hz, seems to confirm it. Seems there's a few typical causes of clipping: 1. power supply can't supply what's needed 2. clipping of the voltage or current waveform. This wikipedia article does a good job of explaining/confirming the power supply cause you are talking about and this is probably the most common I think from what I've read on the forums: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_%28audio%29 I honestly thought folks who had these big amps were crazy until I listened to some of my most dynamic tracks on these mono blocks (at what some would say is high volume). The biggest difference I'm hearing is with dynamic movie tracks. Arguably, 98% of my music collection sounds the same to me. Of course, movies are nearly impossible to compare as I don't re-watch a movie 100 times, so who knows.
  16. When I made a cord for my welder, I just went to the auto parts store and they had larger sized copper terminals like you are seeking. I soldered these onto the wire as it made termination easier (obviously not required though). I bet they have all sorts of options at Autozone or O'Reilly's.
  17. I know my RF-83's I sold had nasty impedance swings in the lower frequencies. A speakers impedance is never going to be 8 ohms, and if it drops to 4 ohms at certain frequencies it's going to require twice the wattage for a given voltage and if the amp's voltage rails aren't high enough to output that voltage at that impedance clipping will occur (whether I hear it or not) since P(t) = V(t)*V(t)/Z. I remember when I bought an ATI AT2007 amp and put it on my RF-83's I immediately noticed an improvement in clarity and a reduction of harshness at peaks versus using my AVR only (even though a lot of folks on forums say there is no improvement). Perhaps this is due to the higher voltage rails or the beefier power supply an external amp provides... I have since switched to Emotiva XPR-1 mono blocks driving some used Palladium P-39f's. When I playback tracks with a very high dynamic range (DR) I swear I hear less harshness at the peaks of certain tracks versus even my AT2007 multi-channel amp. It is definitely there, although I only notice it on a few tracks out of a 50 demo tracks I have listened to many many times. In fact, playing back some movies I've even seen the VU meters on these 100 lb mono blocks peak at 9-10/12 lights, and I can't help but wonder was my 200 watt @ 8 ohm multi-channel amp clipping before? EDIT: the VU meter lights up like this even with my P-39f's crossed at 80 Hz to my subs. Unfortunately, I suspect that even my AT2007 multi channel amp was clipping on my P-39f's during these types of transients as ChrisA pointed out that my P-39f's 3-4 ohm impedance dips at some lower frequencies: http://www.stereophile.com/content/klipsch-palladium-p-39f-loudspeaker-measurements#GW4sqHo8o68YSMiY.97 Plus the VU lights on a 1000 watt mono block really light up at these same peaks, could my smaller multi-channel amp have been clipping...? But, what is the proper mathematical way to consider playback of a track with a DR of 45dB (as measured by the Foobar2000 DR plugin) in a room with a noise floor of 55dBA? Obviously one unit is signal related and the other is acoustic (SPL). Should one assume that the quietest part of the track is at the room's noise floor? Maybe it makes more sense to use a weighted average DR for a given track compared to typical playback level (75-80dBA for music and movies ~85dBA for me), then use one of the existing website calculators to plug in the peak SPL + some headroom to avoid clipping? Seems this issue is even more complicated with things like room gain, reduction of SPL wrt to listening distance, impedance swings, non-ideal power supplies in smaller amps and AVRs, etc... I still want to try one of these low wattage amps in an active bi-amp setup though! Do these 1 watt amps really have better IMD for mid-range frequencies versus bigger class A/B amps? I know typically these large class A/B amps have a lower S/N ratio at 1 watt, but the XPR-1's were still 91dB: http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/emotiva-xpr1-amplifier/emotiva-xpr1-amplifier-measurements Here's another test showing the mid-range IMD for the XPR-1's: http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/amplifier/power-amplifier/emotiva-xpr-1-monoblock-power-amplifier/ PS: Please don't reply that I just need a 20-40 watt amp for my speakers unless you can explain why this is true taking more things into account than just the one sensitivity number Klipsch provides for the P-39f's (consider a 10 foot distance to the MLP, how dynamic/transient a given track is, impedance swings at low frequencies, etc). I want to be able to playback tracks with up to 45-60dB of DR or whatever the highest real world DR for music and movies is, and want to ensure my amp never clips. I also don't have a bass bin like I used to anymore. No doubt a 20 watt amp would sound fantastic on the La Scala's I sold, but how big of an amp should I be using for my P-39f's? I had every intention of buying these big mono blocks used on ebay just to try and resell them later for more money (to cover transportation cost) when I didn't hear a difference. But this slight difference I'm hearing makes me want to keep them... It'd be great to understand/confirm mathematically or theoretically why I'm hearing these differences on tracks like the Chesky Record's dynamic drum test in a dry room at 3 feet (Foobar2000 DR plugin stated ~45dB of range) when I play the track back at an average in room SPL of 85-90dBA. I try to be objective as possible, but have no way to ever do a fair A/B comparison with only a few second lag. I am hearing a difference at peaks on tracks I've heard 100's of times though, so I'm pretty sure it's not my mind playing tricks on me.
  18. Oncore Home Theater is where I bought 4 of my Palladium's (other three are used). You should call them: http://oncorehometheater.com There was an awesome deal last year on the P-38f's. I'm sure Klipsch has something going on for Christmas.
  19. etc6849

    What I Got Today!

    Not kidding, here you can see how much the chairs helped the waterfall plot: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/160560-say-no-to-leather-chairs/page-2 Interesting. And an honest admission.
  20. etc6849

    What I Got Today!

    They sound flat just like my multichannel amp ATI AT2007. They really do sound awesome, and my Chesky dynamic drum test track doesn't clip anymore That thing has 44dB of dynamic range, so if you play 10dB above a room's noise floor you will clip even on efficient speakers like the P-39f without a powerful amp. I think the P-39f's must have some wide impedance swings too with their three 9" woofers, so nothing wrong with having a beefy amp, but I don't run my mains in full so who knows... I've been 3 lights away (out of 12) from clipping on the XPR-1's on some very dynamic tracks already! I don't think I'll ever clip again though and I've had things pretty loud. Is it worth almost $2k for the very few tracks with that kind of dynamic range? Probably not for a normal person but I'd assume movies may have a wider dynamic range than most music if there's a gun shot or something across the front, etc... Replacing my leather chairs made more of a sound difference and was cheaper. However, I think the slew rate might be better on the XPR-1's, but I haven't measured it and can't find a value online.
  21. etc6849

    What I Got Today!

    Sure are. Finally decided to stop hooking up my main speakers up to my multichannel amp. The amps I wanted to try are the Parasound JC1 mono blocks or even the new ATI Signature series, but the Emotiva XPR-1's were priced really well for what you get on the used market. Slightly higher S/N ratio, but 118dB is still really really good. I think the JC1's are a tiny bit better.
  22. etc6849

    What I Got Today!

    Thanks. They are very nice as was the seller. They have 3.5 years left! I had to drive 200 miles to pick them up though, but still a great deal I think.
  23. etc6849

    What I Got Today!

    Someone just got suckered on a pair of mono blocks. May have been me the buyer, not sure! They have ample headroom though, I'm pretty sure I was clipping on 5 or so songs as the parts that previously had distortion sound better now. All other songs sound the same. Mainly it's songs with really dynamic drums or slamming of piano keys that sound better. These are actually pretty decent amps as far as noise floor and output. I put my ear into my mid-range and hear no hiss. http://www.ebay.com/itm/EMOTIVA-XPR-1-PAIR-OF-MONOS-/272068301545?
  24. Great thread. After less than two days of running some mono block amps, I crossed my mains at 80 Hz. From what I'm hearing there has to be lower IMD as things just sound very clear with great transients too. I was seriously considering selling the mono block amps as my 7 channel amp sounded better in clarity on certain songs, but the mains were previously crossed at 60 Hz. I realized this wasn't a fair comparison today when I finally remembered what Chris had said about IMD. I guess I really did get used to hearing less IMD! I want to bi-amp in the future, but crossing at 80Hz to dual subs has additional benefits too such as improving room response.
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