Jolly Roger

"It shows that the lowest cost per 20Hz shake is the basic 20-39 SVS subwoofer tube, with the lowly KSW-15 now coming in second" Where do you figure the Adire Dharman @599 into this?

"I have been familiar with ML since their very first products which came out about the same time I was finishing my listening room." Well, the statement is the only speakers with a sub tower and they go for closer to 80k. Its one of those things I guess. Don't know what speaker you heard, but yet you know all about the M&L sound. I think their first products came out in the early 80's and they have come along ways since then. JR

Artto, personally I wouldn't slam any speaker too bad because of a "Tweeter" audition. First, Martin logans are very hard to dial in, and "tweeter" seems to focus more on looks than placement. Second, the only decent form of amplification with the power requirements for a M&L they carry would be B&K and honestly they're only going to do it well at a very low volume. I know, I have a ref 7250 I've used on my M&L Odysseys.(which is what my tweeter store was using) Esl's are power hungry, and I hear they are best driven by tubes. I don't know for sure as I've never heard them through tubes. I use a pair of Aragon Palladiums. Actually I must have blown a internal fuse or something yesterday on one (palladium) when I got a little crazy on some old Michael Jackson. At least I hope thats what it is because one died. So I can attest that they do require quality power. They also require a quality source. Thats one of the main downfalls of M&L's, you need to be prepared to spend some money on what goes in front of them. Placement, size, and room treatment are the other main considerations. As far as sound, I find my Odysseys to be spooky 3-d sounding on the right cd. They can be brutal on a bad cd in my very bright sounding room. The large panal is super-fast and can give incredible seperation and air. If your into jazz or classical I think it would be tough to find a better speaker. Rock and rap may be better suited for something else. Anyway I didn't buy my speakers from tweeter but I have heard many an audition there. Usually they ended up sounding alot like an overdiven ss amp. I can assure you none of the auditions have had the impact as what I have heard at my home. Heck, I find sometimes any of my systems are apt to sound good on some days and bad on others on the same cds. Maybe its my power or something I dunno. Anyway, any speaker placed wrong or hooked up to the wrong equipment can sound bad so I gotta stick up for the M&L's here. Though I don't care much for the sound of some of the smaller ones. My two channel stereo: Martin Logan Odyssey speakers Aragon Palladium amps Cary Audio 306/200 with analog volume control Harmonic Tech Magic link One interconnects Analysis Plus Bi-oval 9 cable Other stereo Rf-5s Scott 299b or 222c Sony 333-es cdp Ht Rf-3 Rc-3 Rs-3 Denon avr-3300 as pre B&k 7250 as amp Panisonic rp-56 thats about to go as dvdp M&K mx-125 sub Original monster cable and m-1000 interconnects Did I miss anything? whew, I need to sell some stuff and integrate and combine....

M&K make good everything imo. Here is a list of companies who think they're better than ordinary. http://www.mkprofessional.com/pro_users.html

Right now it looks like you have zero room treatment. My guess is that when you get something on those walls to take the bite out, you'll be able to crank the mid more. Does that make sense? Your probably getting a lot of HF reflections making the room seem bright. Also do you have them set to large or small? The small setting might give you a shade more detail in the mid. What interconnects do you have? I dunno but I'd start with these type things before I started screwing with a crossover but thats just me.

I don't know if this fits in or not but I feel really strange listening to Elton John sing about some dude named "Daniel". I know he doesnt write alot of his lyrics but thats one I have to listen to in private.

I would like to point out that this is just US sales.I know Thriller has sold over 50 million copies worldwide...

I second: 'come on eileen'

"I have to agree that the live version of "What Your Doing" is incredible. For any fan who has all the albums, yet didn't get Chronicles (because you have all tha songs already, you really need to hear that version. VERY HEAVY!" Just so you'll know, that song was taken from the live album "All the worlds a stage".

I'd say the B&W 600 series would be a closer match. The Klipsch seem to have a little more agressive sound with better highs. I think all of the B&W's I have ever heard have a great midrange and the extreme highs and lows just get better as you go up the line in models. The reason the Klipsch bring out the pops more is probably due to the fact that they are more sensitive speakers and just play everything (good and bad) louder.

"Hopefully it will get released on DVD someday" I dont own vhs anymore so yea I agree. Something that I would have thought they would have done by now...

Wow, nice to see this post. I've been a huge rush fan since before I can remember. Since I was knee high to a June bug I guess. Had most of their stuff on lp or 8 track, all of it on cassette, all of it on cd, and about got most all of it in 20 bit remastered now. I have seen them live more times than I can remember. (that means at least once) Yep, I'm a huge fan. I'd say there is some great music post Signals. But I guess thats jmho. Personally I think Grace under pressure, Presto, and Counterparts are three great albums. The rest have some good songs. The latest one (Vapor Trails) I just cant take seriously because there isn't a guitar solo on the whole dang thing. I'm sure I'll pick it up one day and get into it. Plus the sound quality leaves some to be desired. Especially for a Rush album. The concert DirectTV is showing is the "A Show of hands" tour in which a live album was released also.(I am almost positive) The video has songs the lp doesnt have. Its pretty decent. Considering it isnt out on dvd its worth seeing for any true fan I'd say. Alex flat tears up "La Villa Strangiato" on it if memory serves me correct.(encore) Neil's solo is equally as impressive. Anyway its worth a look. Btw didnt anyone see the Blue Oyster Cult or Phil Collins Freeview? I only saw half of Phil's but both were good. Very nice feature for dtv.

Rf-3 or Rb-5 would both be fine. But I don't see why if a Rb-5 on a stand will work, why wouldn't an Rs-3 in the same spot. First of all, the 50 percent you say you lose isn't meant for you. Its meant for someone in a different location. Thats the point of wdst speakers, multiple listening posistions get the same effect. Rs model should be easier to place. Rb will be more descrete. Second, there is no rule that states you must have them (rs) with their back against the wall. I toe mine in, on stands, so that one of the tweeters is aimed right at my main listening posistion. Good luck...

Yea, I have agree with lynnm. Why would simple things like jitter not come into play here that is inherent to all pcm cds?

My avr-3300 does it as well.

Yea, I have a Lovan also. The third leg gets in my way. I wish I had a four legged one. Oh well I got a great deal....

Says this under customer service; "Music Direct reserves the right to correct any pricing errors. Pricing is subject to change at anytime and without notice."

Craig, I see you picked up that 299b. Was that for you? How many does that make?

Boa, I see your point. The lfe isnt the part that gets divided between the two. Hence, I'm cutting off some lfe in movies. I think I'll turn the crossover up for movies and back down for music. I'm just not happy with the sound I get when I set the speakers all to small. Thanks for the post Boa, keep me in mind for your ref 30 when you upgrade to the 50.

Craig, the current price for the amp I just posted is $103.51. And as I stated, damn clean.

This is a very clean unit. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=800125026

Boa, I have a Denon avr3300 I use as a pre. My friend has a Yamaha rxv3000. Settings again are large on everything except small for the center. Lfe to mains and sub. I assume the sub handles the lfe, plus the sub 80hz lf from the center. What goes to the fronts on either reciever I'm not real sure about other than this is the way I prefer. I'm sure there is a gap between what I cut off at the center and what the sub crossover is set at but I can live with it. I'd rather leave it set to large but I think it sounds better at small even with the gap. I do use the center for 5 channel stereo but its mainly in my system for movies in which case I doubt either setting makes a huge difference with the content sent to center anyway. As I said, I'd really prefer a different center channel anyway. Anyway, for whatever reason these settings always seem to work best.

Mace, I believe the difference in the st2140 and ref 2220 are more than just total power output. If nothing else the more total watts will allow you to stay in class a longer. jmo

I just have Rf3's but I find that when I use the large setting for both my mains and rears(rs3) and small for the center, the tone coming from the sub sounds much better. I also set the lfe to front and mains and turn the crossover on the sub all the way down. I have done this test a couple of times at mine and a friends house and I always like this setting best. I always do this test in 5 channel stereo so I can get all speakers to produce a decent lf response at the same time. Stick in something like Floyd, Shine on you crazy diamond, and listen to the sub go from garbled to a nice smooth tone as I change all the settings. I think the sub just sounds better when it doesnt have the burden of handeling the lfe of 5 speakers plus its own .1 Ideally I would have a center channel that could reach lower and I wouldn't even have to send that lfe to the sub either. I'd suggest to anyone to try both ways over a period of time.

B&K makes quality stuff and the Reference series is the their top of the line. I have a 299b and a Ref 7250. Dean, through my dinky rf3's the 299 is a nice amp, especially at low volume. But personally, I don't think it can compete with the sound of the B&K. The Rf7s are more sensitive though and tastes do vary.