Mike 585

IME, tow-in is a must, especially with the speaker spread you have. I agree with Chris about the bass sacrificed by moving them off the wall (in addition to what's lost if they're not in corners) and I hear a marked improvement when there are no obstructions between them. Toe-in also helps eliminate early side wall reflections. As Tom and Jake mentioned, I also find the listening experience is enhanced if the tweeters are at ear level or a little higher. However, if the speakers are raised and have a cavity beneath them, a great deal of low bass is lost that way too. This is documented in a Dope from Hope. Depending upon room setup, it's easier to just arrange to sit lower for serious listening. It's certainly easy to invest a couple of hours to experiment with all this and see what you think yourself. Heck, that's part of the fun. Enjoy, Mike

For that application (college) you might want to consider coating them with McCloskey's Gym Sealer, with the intent of stripping and refinshing them when the college years are over. The stuff is damn near bulletproof and will save you dealing with those inevitable water rings down the road. You might also want to consider some metal woofer grills.

Used Heritage can be be incredile value. The Heritage sound is pretty different from reference though so I suggest you make an effort to audition both, as many varieties as you can, before taking a plunge. My living room is very similar dim's to your space and I have experimented with systems from 2-5 speakers on both long and short walls with Heresys, Cornwalls, LaScalas and Belles. To me, the narrow spacing that the short wall allows is such a dimminishing factor on the experience to make it a no-go for either movies or music. The long wall is VASTLY superior. As mentioned above, your L:W ratio doesn't give you the depth for the limitations of a proper K-horn setup. It is my experience and opinion that any symmetrical mix of 3 Belles/LaScalas on your long wall is very satisfying (It can be a club-like experience) and Cornwalls are pretty sweet if that's what one's budget allows. If you're mostly into music, 3 (or 3.1, 3.2) channel is enough. Sides don't add that much, especially for music, and you don't have depth for rears. In my book, quality wins big over quantity. I don't recommend mixing all horn speakers and direct radiators on the front but I find it acceptable on the sides or rear. I also think that when using a center it should be a close match if not identical to the L & R--and at the same height. It makes big difference in the quality of the stereo image. Go slow and do you your research--it's very pleasurable and cheaper in the long run. Above all, enjoy the journey. All the best, Mike

Red lamp lit is power on in standby mode of auto on/off. Green light indicates auto on, incoming signal. I'm glad to have learned about the "secret" fuse.

FWIW, I followed the audionotch link and, if it's accurate, could hear out to 20k and I'm 58. Interesting that this site is aimed at tinnitus suffers. I had some tinnitus that was coincidentally cured by some chiropractic care I had to my neck for problems related to a whiplash insident from a bike accident. I believe the chiropractor said it was related to the atlas (C1?). YMMV.

I've been using an ART 355 for a few years without any problems. 31 band, two channel and it's dead quiet--no hum or hiss. It has both XLR and RCA in/outs. Some EQs are XLR only. $189 from Parts Express with free shipping. http://www.parts-express.com/art-eq-355-dual-31-band-1-3-octave-graphic-eq--245-886

I just found this listing. Sorry to hear about your situation Ben. Bummer. I sent you a PM on a piece of equipment. Mike

There's a local music theater production going on, "Good Rockin' Tonight, a Tribute to Sun Records". I saw it last Saturday with my wife and had a wonderful time. I saw it again this past Tuesday with a gang from work. That's a buddy of mine on bass who got me permission to take pictures. It's a great venue and a very well done send-up to the legendary artists and music from Sun. If you're within striking distance or Rochester, NY and so inclined: http://downstairscabaret.org/WINTON%20Website.html

It's too bad about Epik. Being good at business management and designing good product are completely different skill sets. Maybe Chad needs a partner with complementary skills. I bought two Legends the end of last year. They easily EQ (SMS-1) flat (+/- 1db) to 25hz and don't even break a sweat keeping up with my Belles. Very little cone movement at comperable levels so presumably low distortion. I think they were a heck of a value for $400 shipped. I knew the track record at the time and it seemed a reasonable risk to me. Having said that, I would readily spend much more for a high performance sub with the life expectancy and repairability of Klipsch Heritage. Why can this company get the sub thing right? Sorry off topic, alcohol fueled semi-rant. Regarding the OP question. Assuming the low resale value of the mentioned speakers, how about buying both, playing around a bit and reselling the loser of that competition? Also, the OP mentioned this is for HT only and getting down into the teens to fully realize current soundtracks is not easy or cheap IME. For example Epik claims “true 15hz or lower in-room extension” for the Legend. BS—not at a reasonable output level and that's with 2-12” drivers. I'm skeptical HSU can do it with one 12”. So, anyway, as I said, if these are both local for you, I'd suggest you get both and play around. Above all, enjoty the quest!

Cool thread idea. Dr. John at the Rochester International Jazz Fest. "Jazz" being a fairly loose interpretation odf the range of performers. This was the end (for me) to a whole weeks worth of great music. Many free show on street stages within a several block area. Plus pay shows at many indoor venues--all within easy walking distance of one another. This was a free street stage show. Nice venue, no problem getting close enough to see and hear well. Great weather and a few adult beverages were the icing on the cake.

I think it sounds great if the center level is properly adjusted which requires a little experimentation. IME, the center-mixed material has a better defined position than with a phantom center and allows one to sit closer to the "stage" than in the often-prescibed equilateral triangle. Also, it widens the sweet spot in that center-mixed material is still perceived as coming from the center a seat or two to the side of the center axis rather than coming from the then closer L or R. I'm aware of three ways to do a center: A HT processor is one way. There's also a "black box' approach described in the Dope From Hope and lastly, some old pre-amps, ( e.g., Mac C-26) provide a L+R mixed center output. The HT processor has one potential advantage in that it can provide time delay if, as is likely, you can't put the center at the same distance from the listening position as the L and R. I'm sitting with my head 11' back from Belles spaced 16' c to c and I find it significantly better than 2-channel. Mike

First of all, this is the best sound I have had since selling my Khorns 5 1/2 years ago after 30 years. I wanted to evolve into better, more defined sound. Flatter, deeper, lower distortion, better transients, all of it. For those who have followed my evolution, you know it has been a fruitful journey, culminating in what I now have, which is the best horn sound I've been able to come up with on a LOW BUDGET. FH-1 bass bins (rugged, LaScala-like) with professionally re-coned EVM 15L woofers, Klipsch K-402's with Klipsch made K-1133 2" compression drivers (the real prize here), Xovers. I was going to re-use the "mini me" tweeters with B&C DE-250 drivers for my next pair of speakers, but I'll throw throw in for an extra $200, so $1,500 for the whole stack, including passive network. It took me 5 years and many horns and drivers to get to match up all of these. Keep in mind that a new pair of K-402's and drivers alone will cost you over 2 Grand. The only reason I'm selling is SPACE. moving to Indy for new job and moving into a small house. They are cosmetically in need of work, but, ah, the SOUND!! I have enough Klipsch Pro speakers (KP-200's--Heresy like) to get me by until I build something smaller. I may also end up selling the KP-200's as well since my room is going to be 1/3 the size I have now! Thanks for the detailed reply Claude. I have followed some of your audio journey via the forum and am sorry to hear that you have to part with the setup. I will send you an email tonight or perhaps you can email me your phone number and a good time call in the evening. I look forward to talking to you soon. Thanks, Mike

I didn't know that Russ. Not looking much at the used LaScala market, I assumed that raw was the most common based on my experience with chasing down four pair of Heresys. As for black LaScalas, I have over the years seen a lot of do-it-yourself stained black and, as Mongo says, painted (a shame) but this pair I acquired recently is the first factory finished black pair I've personally come across--and they are perfect. In any event, if you're in market, I sure hope you find what you're after. And as you've indicated, when it comes down to getting the speakers you want, a few hundred bucks is no big deal in the grand scheme of things. All the best to you and yours, Mike

Is what's in the avatar what you're listing? Is so I want it. I'm not clear on the 3-way ref. Road trip?

Claude, I'm very interested but not sure what all is included. Please elaborate.

I don't normally bother with alerts but I assume these are pretty rare on the used market. Sorry, I don't see how to make this a link. http://rochester.craigslist.org/ele/3695353324.html

I don't know, IMO $1,500 is a pretty lot for LaScalas. I recently bought a pair local for $1,000 which I thought was on the high side but they were black and mint. There's another pair in Rochester for $1,200 if that makes a trip look more attractive to you. And they've been reposted on Craig's several times over the last few months so they may be willing to bargin. Lot's of studio equiment in the same listing: http://rochester.craigslist.org/ele/3689086465.html

One thought I have had regarding stretching and adhering the grill cloth to the lower frames that you may want to look into is approaching a local screen printer. Putting the grill cloth on the base bin frames is very similar to stretching screen printing fabric onto a screen and their fixtures my work if they're willing to work with you. Seems like it may be one one of those case-of-beer-barter kind of things.

Looks to be cane, is that correct? I have two cane-grilled Belles now and I've collected drivers, horns and networks towards building another pair or at least one for a center. I have a black top grill in great shape; maybe we could do a swap. I don't have the base bin grills but that's the easy part of your build and it's my belief that matching cloth is available in black--not so in my case with the cane. Let me know and in any event, good luck with your project. All the best, Mike

Hi Michael, Hey just wondering, since you're going with the vtac, does that mean you'll have a stock Belle top grill frame with cloth that you want to part with? If so what color? Actually, come to think of it, what about the old bottom grills? Mike

MG (It's Craig, isn't it?) Sorry for the slow response. Your thought was news to me and turned out to be the correct diagnosis. Thanks for taking the time to provide the input. It's a relief that I don't have a bad switch or whatever. There's still no action on the Epik site. It's difficult to understand how someone in business could think it a good course to be uncommunicative for so long. All the best and thanks again, Mike

Sure will be missed. I've always been a fan, have much of his music and have seen him live several times. I always thought he looked fit and appeared to take better care of himself than many/most that live the life. It's alarming how great a risk you take these days with "routine surgical procedures". Reports of serious complications and, as in this case, even death seem far too frequent. BTW, TYA has a nice DVD of a show shot in '83 at the 25th anniversary of the Marquee Club.

I remember reading way back when, that the guy that player the bldg. super used to drink a ton of water before taping to get the belly thing workin'.

Fury, The 5.1 Bash amps have a history of trouble that's well documented here on the forum. I just searched on "5.1 amp problem" and got over 3,000 results. I suggest you do some reading to see what others have found/tried and hopefully save youself some hassle. I've been down this road myself and having read through those old posts, I decided to replace the sub with another (had one laying around), get a cheap 5.1 AVR (~$200) and keep the Klipsch sat's. Good luck, Mike

I bought a pair of Empires during the cyber week sale late last year. They came promptly and they do a nice job of filling in the bottom end working with my Belles and I've been content with the ROI. I've had no prior experience with plate amps but they sure run hot. Anyway, tonight one failed to power up from "auto-on". It does run from "on but I'm a bit concerned... Perhaps concerned is too strong a word; disappointed is perhaps more accurate. I"ll be emailing Epik and let you know what I hear. Sigh... Mike