MikeMilliken

WOW! What a great opportunity and a very generous offer. Your opinions of the 402 have been mirrored by many in my email. I would absolutely be honored and would love the opportunity tho listen to all 3. That kind of chance does not come along very often! I have written to Roy D to see if there was a place in the US where all the cinema line could be auditioned as well. I would LOVE to visit you, once my hearing returns;( A side effect of the URI is my head/ears are clogged) At the moment I couldnt tell the difference. I had my wife listening to my new Chorus II's vs the Forte II's last night and all she could tell me is that they were on. Coytee, if you'd be so kind, send me a PM with a phone number and a preferred time to call you in order to work out the details. I think I had better drive my pick up in case theres a pair you no longer need. Your wife must be an amazing women to tolerate all those BIG speakers, lucky you.

Any particular brand of cap you liked better Dean? Where is/was the best place to get them? Did you stay with stock values? Ever change to TI diaphragms on mids or tweeter? If so, did this make it necessary to alter the crossover values? On the mil specs, you got a source for them... and stock value or alteration? From reading what Mike Bentz said (I think it was him) , the mids needed to be padded down a wee bit. I wonder if that would be the case after the caps/diaphragms were changed? Thanks for all your help!

Please keep this thread going! I just got a pair of Chorus II's as well, havent even heard mine yet, just popped 'em with a 9 volt to make sure the polarity was correct and that all the drivers worked. I'd like to learn from your findings! Thanks, Mike M

My wife cannot help herself.............any open space gets something plopped down on top of it. I hate clutter and she loves it.

Wow, from $2800.00 down to $600.00. Thats a markup I could live with as a retailer, where do I sign up?

For you guys that have the 402's with the home driver, was there a huge improvement over the later Khorn/La Scala sound? It would seem that with all the improvements made to these Heritage speakers over the years, the sound from them would be real hard to better........By now they ought to be VERY GOOD in their own right. After all, they weren't bad to start with!

Gosh, I don't even know how to address this. Firat thing I guess is to "man" up and apologize for over-reacting. It's clear to me this morning that I had a SEVERE attitude problem. As an aside I have talked to Roy, (Nice guy BTW) and I can get the horns with drivers, and there is more than 1 to chose from if you intend to use them in a home setting. He seemed eager to help and not at all put out. I will likely go in a whole different way than I originally anticipated, IE: buying "modules" than can be combined into sytems.I had my own Pro Sound business 20 years ago and I still service some of my old clients from back then in Florida, Mexico, Central America, and the Carribean. In order to "demo" said systems, the module thing makes good sense. I am not looking for an excuse for my "whining" yesterday, these are just the facts......I am a hardcore type A personality, but thats not the real problem as I see it. I don't feel at all this morning like I felt last night, thank god. I am on the last day of a 5 day regimen of 100MG/Day of prednisone from my doctor to fight a severe upper respritory problem that just has not wanted to go away. I have taken this crap before, and by now I know how it affects me. I had a kidney transplant almost 12 years ago, and Immediately after they put you on high doses of this stuff, its a steroid. Well this steroid makes me very EDGY, and it affects my whole personality is a nasty way. I am supposed to take a "maintenance" dose (10MG/day) all the time, but I can't because I would have to be committed! Seriously the rage this causes is uncontrollable, ever hear of "Roid Rage", remember the pro Wrestler (thats an oxymoron:) not that long ago that killed himself and his family? I do not sleep on it, I am tense, edgy, and violent, add that to a type A personality and you got "gas on a fire". It makes me irrational and after 3-4 days of no sleep the issue is only compounded. Ever get a Z pack from your Doctor? Those are 4 mg each, I have been taking 100MG/day for 5 days, this is the last day. Tommorrow I get to be sane again. There doesnt seem to be any alternative to the prednisone, bellieve me, I have asked repeatedly. My wife just hates me while I am on it, fact is I hate myself on it, I am just MISERABLE. I appreciate all of your help and kindness, tomorrow I will be sane again. I just took my last dose of this stuff and will do my beat to refrain from being a jerk today. It hasn't hit me yet, when it does I know it....... I do feel like King Kong on it, but I am semi psychotic and miserable. I WISH I didnt have to ever take this stuff, It has awful side effects, but nothing else seems to be able to clear up the pnemonia/upper respritory infection. Breathing is a good thing!

Pat, This should have been handled much differently than it has been. What part of being taken to task was supposed to be the fun part? If the horn is not available by itself, then thats all that needed to be said. But, I find that hard to believe when I can see that there are people out there that have that 402, or one that looks exactly like it, and/or the smaller horn like yours, that do not have the Jubilee. Colter sent me an email saying that they are not sold seperately, and he was pretty nasty in that email as well. It seems like he is bound and determined to get me to go off, I do not understand his motivation for any of these attacks. A couple people told me he was a decent guy including Coytee, but I am surely not seeing it. If Klipsch doesn't want to sell the horn/horns thats fine. I have been trying my best to be a gentlemen and its not easy. Another edit here guys.......... Again; I'd like to just remove it but its also funny in the same sort of twisted way.........So I'll leave it. Remember the DI in the movie Stripes? The one that gave Bill Murray the beating and was subsequently blown off the tower? Well if you remember the part where "Francis " was ranting, you'll likely remember the part where that DI said, SHUT UP FRANCIS. That seems appropriate here as well. Mike Milliken

This BS is completely uncalled for! No basis for it whatsoever. If you need to abuse someone, you need to look elsewhere, I am not your whippin boy. I asked you to take this issue out of the forum, yet it continues..............So be it. If somone rained on your parade in the past, why don't you take that up with him/them. Why take me to task for it? I won't pay penance for someone elses deeds, and you are silly to even think I should. I give as good as I get, that will have to do. I don't feel the need to kiss anyones backside for something I had NOTHING to do with. EDIT>>>>>>> The only reason I am not deleting this (its embarassing) is that its funny, in a twisted way..... Remember the guy "Francis" in the movie Stripes? Thats just what I sound like here. He's the psycho that was ranting and said, "if you touch my stuff, I'll kill you". The not so funny part is that when I am on the steroids, this seems perfectly logical. It apparently does not affect everyone the way it affects me. I hope none of you ever have to experience this, its no walk in the park. Are insane people welcome in the forums?

Mike, Just send me a PM with your address and I'll get them right out. I want to send them via US Postal Service because thats easiest for me. I'll pay the freight, you have been very helpful and kind.

WHOA!!! I do not like the turn this has taken and most of all, I see no reason for these comments...... What is the motivation for these insinuations? Wouldn't a PM be a better place for this? This could get UGLY very quickly. If Klipsch wants to sell something, wouldn't that be up to them?

Wow... TAD = Pioneer? I had no idea they had anything more than mid-fi, with the exception of ther ELITE stuff. I certainly wasn't aware of their involvement in pro gear. Thanks for the heads up, my friend.

Mike, I have those woofers. The 15" ones, they are crazy good:) That link on the ribbon compression drivers has me thinking. I got 8 Hi-Vi research ribbons left, would you like a pair to play with? You can have a pair, just pay the shipping. These are pretty big, and they sound sweet, just not real efficient, maybe 90 db 1W1M. I was going to do a line array at one time then I lost interest. I then acquired all the parts to do a Dynaudio Evidence/Consequence. I still got all the stuff for that too. Just no cabinets, I went in the attic to get the 8 woofer's to start the project about a week ago and the surrounds had deteriorated. So I got 8 brand new Dynaudio 21W 54's, that never had power on them, ruined...........I hate foam surrounds. I dont know how they are getting the ribbon tweeters to take so much power, they are pretty fragile, and I have smoked a bunch of them. maybe you can figure it out? You want a set?

All over that,,, Thank you Mike, you scared me for a minute. I'd been out of this stuff for about 20 years, but I thought physics involved was still the same In that vein, thats part of the reason sharp slope crossovers sound better (when you get them right) That "smear" you mentioned earlier. I am with you on the "time" as being relative to the frequency. Glad you are here. You are seriously helping my re-learning curve along sir! I think I forgot more than I remember

Mike, One thing caught my eye...... BASS IS SLOW? Isn't the speed of sound constant? (other than/temp/humidity/altitude) I didnt think it was "frequency dependent" I know about the wavelength and the phase, I got that down. I know how to manipulate that as well. OR.....does the compression of the signal in a horn/expansion rate do something wasnt aware of?

Mike the bass drivers are here.......http://www.audiopulse.com/products/subwoofer-drivers/lms-ultra Its TC sounds, sorry for my crappy typing, I got "sausage" sized fingers. It'd be my guess that TC sounds probably make the drivers you spoke of. Mine have 3" of linear travel.... They are more like air hammers than speakers, crazy heavy too. BUT! with your comment on excursion, these bad boys might just be "wasted" in a horn. So maybe I'll make some headphones out of them with a hahn's brace so my neck doesnt break. The speed of sound for our uses is 1125 FPS @ 20 cps/HZ that ought to be a wavelength of 56.25'. I know its affected by humidity, altitude, etc... But for my purposes thats fine... I am nearly at sea level where I live. That being said, I had planned on building either a 1/2 or 5/8 wavelength line since I have 35 acres to work with, size is of no concern. I think a bigger line will be easier to get the expected reults and the gain I am looking for... Right track there? A 16hz tuning would be fine, as would a 20, I just used 20 as a minimum. TC is also bringing out a new line of pro drivers and compression drivers. I am going over there in about 10 days to check them out. I got friends there. I had considered using the backwave off the subs in some fashion, maybe a 6th order tune (like you said free lunch) But with the horn gain, I'm not sure I could even hear it. I just thought it could be useful for tuning in some fashion instead of just letting it heat the air inside the sub enclosure Any reason I couldn't "fly" the mid/tweeters just above the horn opening? That would let me aim them and keep them out of harms way. I gotcha about keeping them out of the bass horns terminus. I can do the walls any way I'd like I suppose. I never thought about sloping them out, but I understand what that would do to the room response;) I do want to keep the building in a parallelagram shape though. I had even considered some variation of the "Golden Rule" IE; make the roof higher and the length longer to get closer to it anyways. I am building an apartment upstairs. Mike, I dont understand the tapped horns, so I had not considered that. I dont see the benefit in it. I remeber seeing a "unity" horn years ago and I figured it was just marketing hype. I have used beryllium drivers before, Yamaha used to have some. Super strong, very light and pretty cool looking too. That metal has some great qualities, just dont touch it! It has some nasty effects on humans.Thats a great material for a comp driver diaphragm, last I knew it wasnt cheap either. I just renewed my membership in AES, so I could get back into the archives without dropping a ton of money and I drug out High Performance Loudspeakers, Martin Collum, to brush back up on my theory. I hadn't seriously played with speakers in years, Real Estate development has been crazy in Florida and I simply had not had the time to do anything except play Monopoly for real. I am glad for this break, and the time to pursue my passions. I am grateful to you and all the others here who have spent their time on/with me. THANK YOU ALL!

CB, there is a BIG difference in the stuffing! AES has some paers on the properties of different kinds of stuffings.. Fiberglass blows as its REACTIVE, ie its hard (glass) and the sound bounces around off it, Dacron polyester is TWICE as good as fiberglass because its RESISTIVE and slows the sound down, making an enclosure appear larger, Long hair wool is way better than dacron polyester, as its even more resistive. The best thing I know of (this was 20 plus years ago, theres likely better stuff now) for stuffing is the last stuff I used in Transmission lines, and it was called Acousta-stuf ..... I can get the AES articles for you if you'd like and speaker builder had several articles on it . the study was conducted by George Augspurger of the AES in 1999, theres got to be newer stuff out...... Weems & Dickasson cover it in thier books as does Martin Colloms, (much more in depth) in High Performance Loudspeakers.......I hadn't cracked a cover on that book in almost 30 years. But I am going to re -read sections on horns. That is one heckuva book if its still in print. The pillow stuffing is way better, widely available, cheap, and is not NEARLY as likely to get into voice coils and cause damage as fiberglass is...... If you want the really good stuff.. Madisound.com Larry Hitch is the man! or if in Canada: Solen hope this helps! Mike Milliken

Can someone please direct me to a good book/books on theory. The most current research would be appreciated! Specifically, I got to figure out whats going on at the point of driver coupling to the horn. What needs to be happening there, mostly. Thanks guys!

Thank you kindly!

Hi again Pat! This is something I have noticed while playing with all kinds of horns. One commonality I keep seeing, is that the throat, right after the driver be it dome or cone, is constricted. Altecs, EV's, EAW, Community, and apparently the Klipsch designs...... I have to go did up my books on horn design...... Theres something going on right at the very start of the horn.. I think...... a horn (at its simplest) is no more than an acoustic transformer, and as such its function can be predicted. I understand what happening at terminus (F3/FC) and I understand how/why you determine length vs area for the different trype of horns. I also think (plz correct if I am going the wrong way, NEW TO HORNS!) that right at the point of coupling, must be VERY important.. I need to know whats happening there.. and how this acoustic coupling SHOULD take place, and why does it need to be compressed at that point. I think it is an acoustic impedance coupling, though I might be way off. No one seems to address that area of the horn where I think the SECRET to the horns efficiency lies. Am I way off? I will dig out my books and see what Martin Colloms has to say about this. High Perf louspeakers has been my saviour many times when I got in a corner and couldn't figure my way out Thanks all who have contributed !

JL, I just replaced a diaphragm in my Forte II tweeters, and I saw nothing different from any other DR soft dome internally. There was nothing impressive about it or the magnet/gap, pole piece...Heck there wasn't even anything in there to absorb reflections off the pole piece or damp the back wave. They sound fine, in spite of all this.

I wasn't trying to save money.... The ATC's are about 800.00 each at the moment. Am looking for quality, these are the sweetest mids you'll likely ever hear. They just need more output. I had hoped a horn might be able to do that.

I got no idea where to buy them.. Does Klipsch sell them?

I have some laying around, doing nothing....... I got a pair of 3" ATC's that I am almost afraid to touch, man these are SMOOTH! But I also got a pair of 3" Morels that are in brand new condition that I could care less about after hearing the ATC's. Any reason I can't build a horn to get some gain on these Morel drivers? They are pretty, have 92-93 db output as a DR, res is down around 200 as I recall, they got 3" vc's so they can take a pounding. from my rotten memory I think they have good response down to 500HZ and can easily go past 5K. Idea's? If I can make them work well, I'd do something with those ATC's... that are at 96DB as a DR . For some reason, I think in theory there is 7 DB's gain to be had in that frequency with the proper horn.. 113 db 1 w 1 meter would be useful

This is the sub I was talking about..........http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm However I want to run mine from the inside of the building (above ground, got lotsa land) and U it back inside with a 10' x 20' throat termination. I wont use brick. I'll use concrete and I plan to follow a semi tractrix, mine will not only gain width but height as well. The compression chanber confuses me........ Something else thats eating at me......... Can ANYONE tell me why, you put a big woofer on a horn throat and then hook to a 3" wide opening. This certainly looks terribly constrictive! Is this PWK's way of making a very short (comparitively) horn work? The motor board's that are used on K Horns, Lascala's, Jub's, just look wrong to me. making that big woofer compress into a little rectangle............... If its done to get the short horn to work, I understand. But I dont like the looks of it, and would have no idea what thats doing to the cone, loading wise