htxpert

The 876 has enough power to drive even in-efficient speakers to deafening levels. Klipsch speakers are very efficient and there is absolutely no reason to do this even in huge multi-media rooms and home theaters. If you double your amplifier power you would only achieve a net 3db gain anyway.

If you mount them on the side walls don't put them in the null of the listening position. I have found that the RS series performs better if it is 12-20" above seated ear level and 10-24" behind the listening position. If one surround is close to the listening position and the other is a long distance away but directly across from each pother don't rely on YPAO to correctly set the spl level and distance. The newer versions of YPAO is a little more accurate but I have still had to touch up calibrations in configurations like this and others. Happy Listening -Ray

Some of the Velodyne subs have a weak solder connection on the input board where the post connects to it. I cant remember if the HGS sufferers from this but I have fixed a few of the older sub amps and rack mounted Velodyne amps in the past. Thoes Monster turbine locking rca heads have damaged many receivers and amp rca inputs and I will never use them for anything but tying down a load in the back of my truck.

After a couple of drinks Winchester went in there and kicked both thier arses. []

+1

WSU, Check you PM.

Hi Bluewaves, I would like to ask you a few questions before offering my $.02 to the allready great advice you have received here on forum. #1 What is your room size? #2 Does your room have any acoustical treatment? #3 Do you plan on keeping your current Klipsch speaker configuration or do you plan on an upgrade in the near future? #4 What are your listening habits (IE )are you say a 50% multi-channel 50% music person or do you listen to more multi-channel content? #6 Do you consider ease of use, set up and equipment reliability important to you? #7 Will you be installing the receiver or pre-pro in an enclosed cabinet?

I really have enjoyed the proprietary algorithms from Yamaha as well and am currently using the RX-V 2600 in one of my systems. The DIY version of the height channel I have been playing with off and on I like more than the EX channels in my HT. My dedicated HT room is fairly large so I am welcoming the addtional channels and format from Dolby. I am not sure about the two front effects channels but I will definitely incorperate the additional height channels for a 9.1 set up. I have found even with my low tech DIY version hard steering pans from front to back and difuse foley effects take on an addtional sense of realism with the additional speakers abouve and slightly behind the listening position. For me as an A/V Installer I really enjoy the technical aspects of home theater technology probably even more than listening and viewing my systems. My personal systems change from week to week and are always either evolving or devolving depending on my itch. PS.... Sorry didn't mean to highjack the thread.

I hear what you are saying but I have been playing with a DIY version height channel for about the last 5 years or so with good results.

If you have the room and like to tweak you may want to wait till summer for your next AVR upgrade. Dolby Pro Logic IIz Taking Surround to New Heights Introduces a new dimension in surround sound listening Contains all the proven quality of Dolby® Pro Logic® IIx Provides a compelling new listening experience with a more lifelike soundstage Enables greater flexibility in expanding a 5.1 playback system to 7.1, or a 7.1 system to 9.1 Signifies an appealing new approach to surround playback in the home Dolby Pro Logic IIz introduces a new dimension to home theater listening through the addition of front height channels, creating a 7.1 or 9.1 playback system that enhances the spaciousness of music, movies, and video games. Through the addition of a pair of speakers above the front left and right speakers, Dolby Pro Logic IIz introduces a vertical component to the horizontal soundfield of a conventional 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound system. The enhanced spatial effects bring an overall airiness to the listening experience, a new dimension of presence and depth. With Dolby Pro Logic IIz, rain in a movie now seems to be actually falling on the listener’s roof, concert videos bring a more intense sense of being at the performance, and orchestral works deliver more palpable depth, power, and connection. In games, the added dimension increases the realism and immerses players more deeply than ever in the action. Because it processes only nondirectional sounds for the height channels, Dolby Pro Logic IIz maintains the integrity of the source mix and the effects are always appropriate to the material. The added dimension complements the sound from the rear surround speakers, adding spaciousness while honoring the original intent of the content creator. The Challenge 7.1-channel surround sound has made the home theater experience exceptionally involving and compelling. However, due to room layouts and space limitations, not every setup can accommodate the back speakers of a 7.1 system. Through our extensive research into multichannel listening, we have developed technology that delivers alternative solutions. Dolby Pro Logic IIz solves these problems by adding front height channels, through a pair of speakers mounted above the left and right speakers in a home theater surround sound system. Dolby Pro Logic IIz: Improves on the spatial presentation of current 7.1 surround sound setups Provides installation flexibility for setups in which rear surround speakers are not practical Dolby Pro Logic IIz offers a new dimension in sound, bringing a greater sense of air and presence from any content. Benefits include: Realistic and involving surround sound from any music or movie source Dramatic alternative listening perspective for installations that can’t accommodate back surround speakers Functions with original stereo or multichannel sources Requires no special encoding or separate mixing by the content producer Simplistic speaker positioning and wiring The added channels also add flexibility for designing a surround sound system with up to 9.1 channels. 9.1-channel AVRs offer even more options, including state-of-the-art 9.1 playback with surround and back speakers and two front height speakers. Because Dolby Pro Logic IIz is based on proven Dolby Pro Logic IIx technology, it is as easily implemented in AVRs. The height channels become another option on the speaker setup menu. Additionally, game developers now have a powerful tool that opens up the potential for true three-dimensional audio effects. With Dolby Pro Logic IIz, developers can encode specific height information in the z-axis. Players will experience even greater immersion and realism. Why Height Extensive listening sessions established that adding a height dimension to a home theater brings a greater sense of realism than would the addition of surround speakers in the horizontal plane to 7.1 systems. People are also far more sensitive to directional cues from sounds occurring in front than from those behind, determining that front speaker placement is ideal. Expanding on established Dolby Pro Logic II matrix decoding innovations, Dolby Pro Logic IIz identifies and decodes spatial cues that occur naturally in all content—stereo and 5.1 broadcast, music CDs, DVDs, 5.1 and 7.1 Blu-ray™ discs, and video games. Dolby Pro Logic IIz processes low-level, uncorrelated information—such as ambience and some amorphous effects like rain or wind—and directs it to the front height speakers. Just as with the surround channels in existing Pro Logic IIx technology, the height extensions do not offer any new kinds of program content to drive the height channel outputs. The extensions are designed to more effectively use existing program material when height channel speaker outputs are present. The height extensions can be used to upmix a variety of sources from movies and music, but are particularly well-suited to upmix game content.

I just had a thought..... On the 663 I am not sure but it may be possible to go into the system setup under basic and adjust the trim levels to raise the voltage on the pre-outs but I am not sure if possible what would happen to outputted distortion levels if you did that.

At 2Vrms, the preamp section of the RX-V4600 faltered. This is because Yamaha was likely using only a single rail 5V supply for the preamp section. I would prefer to see a preamp have the ability of driving 2Vrms undistorted to accommodate a wider assortment of power amplifiers. Though this didn't present any audible nasties when I used the RX-V4600 as a preamp to my Emotiva MPS-1 power amp, my advice here is to choose a power amp that can achieve maximum power output with about a 1.5Vrms input should you decide on buttressing your system with external amplification. Keep the words "2Vrms undistorted" in mind Now it may be true that many receivers can output higher voltage at the pre-outs but is the output unclipped and what distortion levels are they producing at that higher output level?

Here is a good reference regaurding preamp output voltage written by Gene at AH and this is exatly why you have to be cautious. Preamplifier Tests Frequency Response The frequency response out of the preamp was ruler flat in the audio band (20Hz to 20kHz +-0.1dB) with a -3dB point around 120kHz. I also observed no measurable difference between "Straight" and "Pure Direct". FFT Distortion Analysis When the analog preamp was driven at 1Vrms (typically ½ signal strength to achieve ½ of max power of most power amps with voltage gain of 29dB) distortion levels were (+0.497 + 88.955 = 89.452dBv) or 100*alog(-89.452/20) = .00337% This is certainly a commendably low distortion figure. At 2Vrms, the preamp section of the RX-V4600 faltered. This is because Yamaha was likely using only a single rail 5V supply for the preamp section. I would prefer to see a preamp have the ability of driving 2Vrms undistorted to accommodate a wider assortment of power amplifiers. Though this didn't present any audible nasties when I used the RX-V4600 as a preamp to my Emotiva MPS-1 power amp, my advice here is to choose a power amp that can achieve maximum power output with about a 1.5Vrms input should you decide on buttressing your system with external amplification. Signal to Noise Ratio The Inputs can handle 3Vrms unclipped! Outputs Deliver nearly 2Vrms output unclipped! But FFT distortion becomes very high once output exceeds 1.5Vrms. Ch-A Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) -106.85 dB below 4.23 dBV Reference Level (at 0.10 % THD+N) < 10 Hz - 22k Hz bandwidth , no option filter and no weighting With a 200mV Input Signal, I adjusted master volume for 1Vrms out, preamp gain (Av=5 or 14dB), I measured as follows: 18.5dBrA with signal -74.6dBrA without signal SNR: 93dBrA (commendable performance for a preamp at any price class) RX-V4600 Power Amplifier Tests Frequency response uniformity over all power levels was excellent (within +-0.1dB from 20Hz to 20kHz). RX-V4600 Distortion Tests of Channels 8-ohms > 0.1% THD 8-ohms > 1.0% THD 4-ohms > 0.1% THD 4-ohms > 1.0% THD RX-V4600 1 CH 134 wpc 144 wpc 210 wpc 225 wpc RX-V4600 2 CH 116 wpc 128 wpc 175 wpc 184 wpc RX-V2500 1 CH* NA 146 wpc NA 199 wpc RX-V2500 2 CH* NA 135 wpc NA 119 wpc *Line voltage was lower during testing of the RX-V4600 which accounts for the negligible edge to the RX-V2500 in 8-ohms. We did not test the RX-V2500 at 0.1% distortion so those measurements are unavailable. Upon first inspection it would appear the RX-V4600 delivered similar power measurements to the RX-V2500 (see measurements and analysis ), until you take a closer look at the RX-V2500 power into 4-ohm loads. In the case where 2CH are driven into 4-ohms, the RX-V4600 delivered 184wpc @ 1% THD (onset of clipping) while the RX-V2500 delivered about 119wpc under the similar testing conditions. What's most impressive is the RX-V4600's apparent better handling of low impedance loads when compared to the lower priced RX-V2500 as can be seen in our output impedance and damping factor measurements. RX-V4600 Signal to Noise Ratio Tests With 200mV in and 2.82Vout into an 8-ohm load, < 10 Hz - 22k Hz bandwidth , no option filter and no weighting Measured at 1 watt: 200mV input: Master Volume: -3.5dB At 1 watt: -21.69 dBrA At idle: -103.46 dBrA SNR: 81.7dB at 1 watt This is very good performance

Carbon, Where did you get the 1v rms specification for the 663 preamp output? It is my understanding that the 663 outputs 4-4.3 volts rms without clipping or harmonic distortion. Mabye I am thinking of the 863 or 1900?

This is dependent on the amplifier some like the Emotiva can be driven to full power with as little as 2 volts RMS while many others, Kinergetics and Newcastle come to mind require more input voltage to achieve full power. It would be very easy to make a mistake and many do by selecting the wrong combination of receiver and amplifier for use as a pre/pro. For example just off the top of my head using older Yamaha’s that predate the RX-V2600 and Kinergetics THX amps would be a poor combination.

You may want to consider this when talking about amplifier power ratings. Doubling the amplifiers power will produce a very minimal net 3 dB gain which is only slightly louder than not doubling it. I seriously doubt you have a hard time driving any of the Klipsch offerings even with a receiver capable of 75 watts per channel. Many believe that adding an addition power amplifier and using a receiver as a pre amp is a good idea to gain amplifier head room when this could be a major step backwards depending on the receiver pre amplifier. Some receiver’s pre outs have a very weak output voltage say around 2 volts or so before clipping. Ultimately a pre amplifier should be able to output 4volts or more without clipping to effectively drive an amplifier to full power without adding any unwanted harmonic distortion.

I know you don't know him, but he's an american military member............... And this is all we need to know! Glod bless him, his family and all or brave troops.

Here is an interesting read if you have the time. Signal to Noise - Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD MA vs. Uncompressed PCM http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby_TrueHD_DTS-MA_versus_Uncompressed_PCM?page=0%2C1 The Sunfire TG is a very nice piece, just because it's a little older than some of the new flashy gear does not make it any less capable. I am seriously considering yanking out my TrueHD/DTS-MA capable receiver that I use as a pre amp in my main HT and going back to either an MC-1, MC-4 or MC-8 with Shawn Fogg 8 channel analog bypass upgrade. Yikes what's with the formatting? I tried to edit it out but it won't let me, Mozilla bug?

Howdy fish, Circuit City in stock most areas $499. Not a bad price considering dealer price has a very narrow margin and a you get a 30 day return guarantee too.

Hey Ken, I replied to your original post here, it is a very detailed response with accurate directions. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/102270/1036706.aspx#1036706

If you set your HK receivers LFE x-over at 60 Hz speaker size small you will have an effective x-over setting of 60Hz. Once again let the receiver set the x-over not the subwoofer. FYI for you speakers all should be set to small and an x-over setting of 60-80 Hz should be set in the receiver and the RW-10 set to maximum x-over. Happy Listening

If you are using an A/V receiver set the RW-10's variable x-over to 140Hz and use the x-over in the receiver to set LFE frequency. If you use both you run the risk of cascading crossovers which is not good at all. If I correctly remember the RW-10 has a continuously variable x-over that will take some time to dial in. Set it at the position that gives you the most LFE output at your listening position starting with 0 and working your way up to 180 degrees out of phase. The toggle should be an On/Off/Auto On/Off switch. Subwoofer placement is critical for good LFE performance and room interaction. Generally corner loading a subwoofer will increase in room LFE output, if you want smooth bass try placing it 1/3 in from a side wall. There are many other factors for setting up a subwoofer try this tread for more info. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/102270/1036706.aspx#1036706

This is a good description of the different profiles but the writer failed to mention that the PS3 is currently a profile 2.0 Bluray player. Although the PS3 is technically a gaming machine and not a stand alone player I thought this should be noted. As for early adoption I am enjoying the Bluray format today. In the years to come we will most likely be streaming our 1080p and beyond media from the internet. There will be no need to get up, go out and rent or buy media as an option for purchase will be available for download on the media server that will replace your DVD player and Satellite/Cable set top box.

Not pretty good > Very good. I am getting ready to pull one and set it up with 2- RF-83, 1-RC-64, 2-RC-64 and 2 RB-51 (Ex) in my showroom. How much you wanna bet the RX-V663 will make these speakers sing? I currently have the Yamaha RX-V3800 driving the system but want some play time with the 663.