Fastlayne

He's not making a case for blind testing, he wants to pick a piano for a concert hall. "I love that other issue about measurement vs listening—when people promote the blind panel test, which of course I have no faith in, or even interest in, other than to laugh at. If you were choosing a piano for a concert hall, would you get two or three name pianists that you knew and respected, or would you put it up to a blind committee to help you pick a concert-hall instrument?" He is saying he would not use blind testing for such a purpose because he has no faith in it. I don't think those who believe in blind testing think they are intended to "test the listener", but it is unavoidable. After all, they don't call them double blind auditions, do they? I think an ABX test that has a good chance of success would be to blindfold people and let them smell two different violins, one old and one new. That's one reason why I think having those violin players blindfolded was silly.

That interview was 15 years ago and his comments were his opinions about the state of audio recording and playback then. Not sure I understand your take on the Colgate commercial part of his interview. "I wrote in this little book of mine [The Vacuum Tube Logic Book] that when I was heavily in the recording industry, English recording company executives and A&R men would have Leak amplifiers driving Tannoy speakers in their offices or their reference playback system, and in America they had McIntosh driving JBL or Altec Lansing speakers. That's all changed. Now they have boom boxes and little Auratones—a car radio is now the standard. If you make a pop record and it sounds softer on a car radio than the Colgate commercial preceding it, you're finished as a mastering engineer. That's your last job. They're going to want to know why their stuff sounded sub-loud, sub-clear, sub-punchy to the Colgate toothpaste commercial. The quality criteria have shifted to where "good enough" is the order of the day. That's sad." I think he was referring to the pop record as "good enough", not the commercials. "Good enough" in the sense it just has to sound good on a car radio, not the HiFi that used to be the standard with the promise of bringing the live experience into the home. 15 years ago we didn't have a lot of what there are now for audio format choices. Very few CDs in my collection that are over ten years old sound very good compared to newer ones, whether they are new recordings or remasters. Seems like if a lot of the recording companies could just get us to accept "good enough" and sell it to us for top dollar, they would. Fortunately people can hear the difference between mp3 and other formats, even in the car. I'd like to know what he has to say about the industry today.

"Forever Strong" is a new release on DVD. Based on a true story, PG-13. Good story and cast.

I read some more about the wood used by Stradivari and other violin makers of the era. It came from what is now Croatia. For about 100 years in that region the climate was much colder and it caused the trees to grow slower and denser. Also, the logs were floated to Italy by sea and the Italian navy had first selection for shipbuilding. By the time the artisans were able to choose their wood, the logs would have been floating in the salty seawater for a long time. They think Stradivari applied a pre-varnish with an insecticide that crystalized on the wood's surface and the final varnish finish got microscopic cracks in it over time allowing the wood to vibrate more freely to resonate the sound. By comparison, the French violin makers used shellac which was beautiful but more rigid and those violins produced a duller sound. Catgut strings were the standard in the past.

If the bias is there is no sonic difference between A and B, not allowing choice 3 will favor the bias in the final results. There should be a third choice and those answers should be considered separately. The number of 3 answers could say more about the participants ability to discern differences in sound than actual sonic differences (or lack of) with A or B. Ten people participate in an audio ABX DBT. A = X C = sound the same 4 select A 1 selects B 5 select C The most reliable results would be to discard those who answered C. If those five participants were forced to only select A or B, the results would end up between A 90% or B 60%, unreliable.

Thanks for the correction. I should taken into consideration your need to be concise, since you had stated you were replying from a cell phone, and not have reacted to that post at all. I also don't care much for snobbery and find most of the people who enjoy the audio hobby are very down to earth. They are also having a great time experimenting with different audio equipment and tweaks. But, the case where the guy led the listener to believe he had other cables could be seen as the listener being polite with the heaps of praise. I wasn't there, but I'm sure he wasn't happy about being duped either.

Thanks for posting the link and I did enjoy watching the video. A couple of questions came up as I was watching. Does a Stradivarius sound the same today as it did when it was new 300 years ago? I wonder how the tone of a wooden instrument would not change over that much time, regardless of the superiority of the design. Also, I think when they are asking the judges their opinions it should not be in a group. Maybe they should not even be seated together or be able to see each other during the performances. Why blindfold the violinists? Do you think they did not know what violins they were playing anyway? That seemed a bit gimmicky

....As per your second point, if you can't identify a difference without knowing what you're listening to, then how can sonic performance be the ONLY criteria for the choice? How does knowing what you're listening to make it sound different? So you are saying I, and others, misunderstood your post about stating reasons for buying equipment? I already said I have pretty much ignored DBTs over the years and now I reject them as unreliable for audio. I base all audio purchases on the hopes of improved sonic performance, but often that's not the only reason. I recently bought an integrated amp that had to have certain features, including a cinema bypass to use with my HT receiver. Unless I could expect improved sonic performance, I'd have continued to use the main speakers connected to the receiver.

Ummmm, who said you have to state reasons for buying gear? Ummmm, you did?

If the bias is there is no sonic difference between A and B, not allowing choice 3 will favor the bias in the final results. There should be a third choice and those answers should be considered separately. The number of 3 answers could say more about the participants ability to discern differences in sound than actual sonic differences (or lack of) with A or B.

Except the blind part removes the possibility for bias unrelated to the sound. For what it's worth, there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying something for reasons other than the perceived sonic performance, but those reasons should be stated as such... That sounds a bit elitist to me. To whom am I supposed to state my reasons for buying gear? Correct me if I'm wrong, but does that mean unless I can pick out a piece of equipment in a DBT, I cannot make the claim I chose it for perceived sonic performance?

I heard of the DBT years ago and never really paid that much attention to it. Some forums won't allow discussions about the results of them, at least, but this thread has been helpful for me to understand why the ABX comparison is fundamentally unreliable.

I read most of that thread and thought you did well. It seemed like some of the posters on that thread just wanted to get you to jump through some hoops for their own entertainment and they had no real interest in Klipsch speakers or improvements to the XOs. It means more to me to have an honest testimonial from someone who can give a before and after evaluation of an upgrade. Converting a room full of skeptics during a ten minute listening session says a lot more than a stack of charts to me.

I'd say being a Bose disciple is the least of his problems. Just forget about him and enjoy your music. Get some noise cancelling headphones if he ever comes over again, block out that nonsense.

Thanks for the link. Did you hear about the remasters of the Beatles albums coming in September '09 and Beatles Rock Band (along with their style guitars)?