Boomzilla

Youse guys! I suspect that Mr. James' idea of the ping-pong ball may work fine for the midrange, but you can't stuff a ball into the tweeter. If the toilet paper is insufficient, try a paper towel. Cheers - Boomzilla

Hi Tim - 25 feet long by about 15 wide. The speakers have to play across the 15 foot space.

Yes - I'd never have believed that the ATS panels would have made that much difference, but they did. All the nasty stuff that I originally thought was the sound of the speaker was actually the sound of the room! Electronics sorting proceeds apace (all comparisons used Audioquest Dragonfly as source DAC). On a scale of one (sucks) to 10 (nirvana): Dared SL2000A tube preamp + VTL Compact 100 tube power amps = 5 (too much, just too much) Dared SL2000A tube preamp + Emotiva XPA-2 (300 wpc solid state) = 9 (good sweetness + good control) Emotiva XPA-2 (300 wpc solid state) direct from Dragonfly = 8.5 (superior soundstage, slightly dry) Tonight I'll try the Rogue Audio Tempest tube integrated amp; tomorrow the HK AV receiver. Cheers - Boomzilla

Yeah, but it sure cleans up messes!

Hi Michael - If you want a cheap (and effective) attenuator for the Heresy's tweeter, then tape a layer of 2-ply toilet paper over it. Not enough attenuation? Tape two sheets over it. Sounds crazy, but I guarantee it works. Boomzilla

I put up four of these: http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24-x-48-x-2--1001.html Three behind the speakers, one behind the listening couch - but that's just my room...

OK, for this to make sense, a bit of history is in order. My listening room does double duty as a living room. Not too long ago, we spiffed up the place by adding crown molding, painting, replacing carpet with wood floors, etc. The result was a VERY live listening room. Into the live listening room came my Cornwall IIIs (henceforth CW3s). I placed them on the floor where Cornwall ones had worked well in the old room (with thick carpet, back then). The CW3s were the ugliest sounding speakers that you can imagine. The bass was excessive, without any pitch definition, and sounded as though the cabinet was making every bass note echo for hours. The woofer to midrange transition sounded like there was a massive hole in the frequency response. The top end sounded strident to the point of being unlistenable. The speakers, needless to say absolutely would not image. I stuck the CW3s in the closet and went on to other speakers. Somewhere along the way, I was persuaded to buy and install some ATS sound pads for the walls. Instantly the slap echo was gone. I got the CW3s back out of the closet, but put them up on temporary plastic stands. NOW the speakers sounded good - no bass boom, good imaging, and smooth response. I attributed this to the stands. This morning, I prepared to make some permanent stands for the CW3s. Before doing the work, though, I decided to listen to the speakers on the floor as intended one more time. Surprise, surprise! The speakers now sounded just as good as they did on the stands. Obviously, the difference is the ATS room panels. I had expected the panels to improve the treble, but wasn't expecting much difference in the bass. In fact, however, the panels improved the entire frequency range of the speakers. The effect is NOT subtle (not like changing speaker wires, for instance). The lesson learned is that if your room is live, you may NEVER hear the best that the CW3s can do. To check your room, clap your hands. Do you hear an echo or delay in the sound fading away? If yes, YOU NEED SOME ROOM TREATMENT. You can make your own or buy commercial panels like I did. Either way, this is the best money you'll EVER spend on your stereo. Don't waste your money on speakers or electronics until after you've fixed your room. The spouse acceptance factor is high for panels also because they come in colors or you can have pictures printed on the panels. In any case, with a good room, the Cornwalls sound ravishing just as they are from the factory - no stands required! Cheers - Boomzilla

Thank you - Yes, I'm a Paul Simon fan... The amplification is proving to be an issue. The darned Dared tube preamp (which is brand new) hums. It sounds great, it just hums. The VTL Compact 100s which sang so sweetly with the La Scalas that I had just don't do it with the Cornwalls. The Emotiva XPA-2 sounds fantastic, but I keep thinking "WHY do I really need 300 wpc?" I tried a SAE solid state preamp, but it had both some hiss and a flat sound stage. Today, I'll try plugging the Audioquest Dragonfly directly into the Emotiva and see what I get. If that isn't the right sound, then I'll throw in the receiver and see what it will do. The Rogue Audio is at the shop for the moment. I think that if I could get the hum out of the Dared, the best combo might just be the Dared with the Emotiva power amp. I've contacted Dared to see what they can do or suggest. I also shortened the risers under my Cornwalls to put the midrange horn closer to ear level. With the Dared and the VTLs in the system last night, the midrange became a bit fierce. I don't know if it was an artifact of the amplification or whether having the midrange horn on axis with the ears caused the phenomenon. If it happens again today with totally solid-state amplification I'll try Mr Moray James' suggestion of physically dampening the midrange driver. Morray suggests a ping-pong ball in the throat, but I've had success before with a small wad of toilet paper. I'll try both and see what happens. These changes (putting the speakers on a stand - reducing the midrange output - etc.) are essentially "re-engineering" the speaker. I've not had another Klipsch speaker where I felt that this effort was needed, but with the Cornwall 3s, the "out of the box" sound was just atrocious. As always, the previous comment must be prefaced with "in my room - with my equipment and - to my ears."

So now that the speakers are set and ready to go, it's amplifier time! Options on hand include: DAC direct to power amp as a preamp Dared SL2000A tube preamp Rogue Audio Tempest Magnum integrated tube amp (KT-88s) Harmon Kardon AVR-1565 receiver VTL Compact 100 tube monoblocks Emotiva XPA-2 solid state power amp (300 WPC) Any bets on which combo, receiver, or integrated will sound best? My two "best guesses" at the moment: 1. Dared with Emotiva or 2. HK AVR Surprised at the second choice? Leave it on for a day or two and THEN listen - an AMAZING sound from such an inexpensive AVR!

My experience was with the older Crown DC300A and the PS400.

Hi Vital - I believe you. I have no personal experience with QSC amps. I based my statements on my experience with Crown amplifiers. My Emotivas have sounded significantly better than my Crowns. Thanks for the info! Cordially - Boomzilla

Hi again, Chris - Once again, we're in agreement. My room was highly reflective with significant slap echo. I treated it using some ATS absorber pads on the wall and it now sounds great. Cordially - Boomzilla

Hi Chris - Thank you for the information. I can just as easily build solid boxes as open stands for the Cornwalls. In fact, the boxes may be the easier of the two. Do all sides of the box need to be solid? I'd certainly assume so since the bass output, being essentially omnidirectional at those frequencies would "wrap around" any partial cavity. Cordially - Boomzilla

Hi 2point1 - Absolutely true, but you couldn't stay in the room with Klipsch speakers at even a fraction of the QSC's 500 watt output. 99% of listening is done at power outputs of less than one up to about five watts. What THOSE power levels sound like is what's important. Although the QSC can put out its 500 watts for hours on end without breaking, it isn't designed to sound the same at the first watt. The Emotiva Mini-X (50 watts x 2 for $219) I contend will sound MUCH better than the QSC. If you feel you MUST have more power, then the Emotiva UPA-200 (125 watts x 2) for $314 will also blow away any commercial power amp that I know of. It's a matter of quality vs. quantity. You pays your money, you takes your choice. For my money, Emotiva amplifiers sound as good as anything I've heard for 4x the money. I've used commercial power amps before in home systems. I'm not just a flac for Emotiva. I've also used amplifiers from Bryston, McIntosh, Classé, Rogue Audio, and others. I've heard no better deal than Emotiva. The best of sound for a bargain price.

Hi Chris - My risers are currently open plastic shelves. I plan to build some, however, which will present a "flat plate" toward the radiating side of the speaker. May I also point out that if one is using a room correction software such as Audissey, that the bass equalization will be adjusted by the microphone feedback regardless of whether the speakers are on the floor or on risers. That correction, however, will do nothing to correct the beaming of the woofer at the crossover point. Given a choice between accurate midrange and accurate bass, I find it easier to live with comb-effects in the bass than in the midrange. Also, as I said in the original post, my Cornwalls sounded VERY bass-heavy and boomy on the floor. This may be a room-dependent artifact, but the stands have certainly made a HUGE improvement in the bass as well as the midrange. I don't have a room evaluation software package, so I can't say what the "in room" response is of the Cornwalls on stands. I can say that my ear can easily tell the difference and that for both smoothness in the bass and smoothness at the crossover, the stands are preferable. I might also mention that I tried tilting back the Cornwalls before trying the stands. The results were unsatisfactory, Cordially - Boomzilla

For the same $$$ as a pro-audio amp, get an Emotiva and be AMAZED!

All comments in this thread by me are specific to the Cornwall III speakers. To understand the behavior of the Cornwall IIIs the 15" woofers need to be evaluated in two different ways - as bass transducers and as midrange transducers. The behavior in these two modes is different. FOR BASS: The Cornwall's woofers radiate almost omnidirectionally at lower frequencies. As designed by Mr. Delgado of Klipsch, the near-field presence of the floor barrier both increases the effective bass level and confuses the bass launch due to reflections. Tilting back the speakers does nothing to change these effects. The woofer is still the same distance from the floor. Greater distance between the woofer and the floor clarifies the bass but reduces the level. This is what happens when the Cornwalls are placed on stands. If you like the bass presentation of the Cornwall IIIs as shipped from the factory, then by all means, leave them on the floor. In my room, however, the Cornwalls sounded boomy and had excessive bass when left on the floor. FOR MIDRANGE: The Cornwall's woofers are 15 inches in diameter. At the 800 Hz crossover frequency to the midrange horn, the effective wavelength is 1.4 feet - very close to the woofer's diameter. This means that at the crossover frequency, the woofers dispersion narrows significantly. For discussion of this effect, see the following Wikipedia discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Directivity Klipsch recognized with the new, higher crossover frequency (800 Hz. vs. 600 Hz. on the original Cornwall) that dispersion would be a factor. For this reason, the woofer was moved to a higher location on the motorboard than in the previous Cornwall models. Unfortunately, the change is not sufficient. The woofer does beam and the axis of the woofer is still significantly below the plane of the listeners' ears. The woofer to midrange horn discontinuity is very obvious with my speakers on their factory risers. Two options are available to the listener: Tilt the cabinets back to put the listener's ear on the axis of the woofer or raise the cabinets about 12 to 14 inches. Although either of the options will make the woofer-to-midrange transition smoother, only the risers will provide the additional benefit of smoothing and clarifying the bass response. For this reason, I have used risers below my Cornwall 3 speakers. I find the effects to be significant, easily audible, and repeatable in back and forth testing. Cordially - Boomzilla (Moniker NOT indicative of listening preferences).

Hi Stephen - Like your taglines. One of my favorites (less obscure but still poignant): Couple in the next room bound to win a prize They've been going at it all night long I'm trying to get some sleep but these motel walls are cheap Lincoln Duncan is my name and here's my song Here's my song...

By the way, THIS is what I bought to experiment with: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Plano-4-Shelf-Storage-Unit-Dark-Grey-917701/8251820 And HERE's what it looks like: For $16 and free delivery to your local Wally-World, why NOT experiment?

If nothing else, set the speakers on some kitchen chairs and listen - Zero expense and you'll either hear a difference or not. For me, it was a BIG difference. On the floor, my Cornwalls were boomy, bass-heavy, and the transition from the woofer to the midrange horn was very clearly audible. The speakers did not throw a soundstage - just right, left, and center with nothing in between. By adding the risers that brought the midrange horn and woofer closer to ear level, ALL of the above problems were reduced. Be advised that if you haven't a strong back it is helpful to get assistance in lifting the speakers. They are HEAVY not to mention bulky and cumbersome. Before I finalize my design for home-made stands, I'm taking Mr. Moray James' advice. I'll cut the plastic risers on my shelves to put the midrange horn exactly at ear level and see if I like the results. This doesn't make the stands worthless, just slightly lower. The ratio of time and effort to cut the shelves vs. having to reengineer the wooden stands makes it a no-brainer to try a different height with the shelving first. Cheers - Boomzilla

Yes. Having the midrange at ear level ALWAYS improves imaging. It is inexpensive to try (plastic shelving units are cheap). If you like the effect, then some DIY risers are easy to build or you can forage until you find something the right height.

On the floor, the Cornwall 3s just aren't very good speakers. The Cornwall ones with their 600 Hz. crossover were far, far better floorstanders. The woofer still had significant dispersion at the crossover point. With the 800 Hz. crossover used in the CW3, the woofers beam at their upper frequencies. That's why they MUST be elevated to work their best. If you've never tried your Cornwall IIIs on stands, buy some of these: http://www.walmart.com/ip/8251816?adid=1500000000000038332490&veh=eml They're sturdy enough to handle the weight, and the Cornwall risers fit the corners fine. I also found that the CW3s were excessively bass-heavy and rather boomy sitting on the floor. The risers alleviate that problem as well. I almost sold my Cornwalls until I tried the risers. I doubt that I'll keep the plastic shelves permanently. I plan to build a matching stand that will put the top of the woofer/bottom of the midrange horn at my ear level (for me, 42"). Thanks for the feedback, Mr. James.

I lifted my Klipsch Cornwall IIIs off of the floor via plastic shelves, I immediately got a fine soundstage with both width and depth. No tweaking required. Getting the speakers off the floor also seems to have cured their excess bass problems. They're no longer boomy! Auditioning material included: Jennifer Warnes - The Hunter album The Commitments - In The Midnight Hour Don Dorsey - JS Bach - Toccata & Fugue in D minor DJ Magic Mike - Vicious Bass Lou Bega - Ice Cream Cameo - Word Up The Nylons - Kiss Him Goodbye Blood, Sweat, & Tears - He's a Runner, Something's Coming On, 40,000 Headmen In all cases, the elevated Cornwalls threw a wide and deep soundstage with rock-solid center imaging. The verisimilitude of the music was height dependent. Too low or too high caused phasey sounding interferences. The best height for me was with the top of the 15" woofer at ear level. This puts the midrange and tweeter horns just slightly above, but that's where they worked best. The best toe-in was mid-way between parallel to the back wall and pointing straight at the listening position. If you've never heard the Cornwalls off the floor, may I suggest buying some cheap plastic shelves and trying them out. Just make sure the shelving is rated to hold weight equal to or greater than the Cornwalls. Boomzilla

Same speakers. Thanks, Russ - you can kill the ad here, the speakers are now posted & will sell via eBay.

I've a pair of Cornwall 3s for sale. Cherry lacquer finish. The speakers are structurally sound, play perfectly, look fine from the listening position, and have minor corner damage to three of the eight corners. You may see them in Baton Rouge, LA. For the pair, I want $2,000. So if you want new Cornwalls for half price, this is for you. I don't have the original boxes, but the local freight store can arrange packing & shipping at your expense if you want to go that route. Available until Sunday, when they go on sale via eBay. Klipsch community members get first shot! Thanks - Boomzilla