Boomzilla

Since PMs requesting location and price get squelched by the moderator (?), see my new post in the for sale section. Thanks.

To date, the things I've done that have helped the CW3s are: 1. Change from 12 Ga. Kimber 12TC wires to 16 Ga. (?) Nordost flat wires. This reduced the amount of bass and consequently reduced the cabinet vibration. 2. Tilted the speakers back by putting some sliders under the front of the speakers. This placed the listening position closer to the axis of the woofer. 3. Switched my Rogue Audio Tempest integrated amplifier from pentode to triode mode. This reduced the treble to a listenable level while on-axis of the tweeter. The one thing I have yet to try is to take all bass below 80 Hz. away from the CW3 and send it to a subwoofer. Of course, doing so leaves me with all the disadvantages of the speakers (large size and 15" woofer crossed over at too high a frequency) with none of the advantages (low bass extension of the speaker itself). Ultimately, if I'm to have a subwoofer, I might as well use Heresy speakers on stands. Anybody want to buy some Cornwall III speakers at a bargain price?

Not to be a smart one, but "DUH?" ANYTHING that ain't soldered comes loose eventually. Either solder the wires with a terminal block, move the crossovers to the OUTSIDE of the speakers so that screws can be periodically rechecked, or (if you're a masochist), go ahead and take the backs off your speakers every couple of years to tighten the screws. I don't particularly recommend removing the speaker backs repeatedly because they're held on with wood screws. Every time you remove and replace the screws, you damage the wood some more and the screws no longer hold as they once did. Just sayin'...

Well, bugger my hobbit; they OUGHT to sound good, then. Imaginary wires OR expensive wires whose only virtue is high cost just don't do it. Current game plan is to raise the Cornwalls on stands till the woofer/midrange are at ear level, send all bass below 80 Hz. to a subwoofer, swap my amplifier from tetrode to triode mode, and THEN fiddle with wires. Lamp cord may yet win out...

Mithril? Source? Cost?

Hi Eric! I agree with you wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, in our eBay world, we must often buy gear without the benefit of prior audition. That's what happened to me with my Cornwall III speakers. Having owned Cornwall model ones in the past, I thought I knew what I was getting. I was wrong. Wires should NEVER be used to solve equipment deficiencies, but having invested in some VERY expensive speakers (for my budget, and without prior audition), trying to correct with wires is my least expensive option. I suspect that I shall ultimately fail and end up having to replace the speakers (sigh...). In any case, thank you for the thoughtful response. I appreciate it! Cordially - Boomzilla

In general, Eric, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. Speaker wires normally create but minimum differences in the sound. There are, however, wires that are so different as to be immediately (and far less minimally) audible. The two, in my case, were Kimber 12 TC and Nordost flat-wire. The former is a 12 ga. rope of woven, insulated wires. The latter is a 16 ga. (guessing) ribbon of insulated, parallel conductors. The two sound radically different on my rig. Whether the difference is due to gauge, to construction, or to interfaces with the speakers' crossovers or to interfaces with the (tube) amplifiers' transformers, I can't say. What I can say is that using the Kimber (which I have found to work extremely well with several other speakers), my Cornwalls' bass was excessive and sloppy sounding. Changing to the Nordost reduced the bass boom (which is NOT an artifact of room placement) and seemed to smooth out the lower midrange. Fortuitous circumstance? Probably, but who am I to blow against the wind (with apologies to Paul Simon)? Cordially - Boomzilla

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Chris. However, sometimes using cables to overcome the shortcomings of a speaker (as in my case) or to fine-tune the performance of an otherwise fine speaker makes sense. It's cheaper, after all, than changing the speaker.

Cherry veneer - working like new - some scuffs on corners but not visible from listening position. New, these are $4K plus tax plus shipping. Buy my pair for $2K cash. Price is firm.

Well, despite my preface, the "wire ranters" are obviously out in force. I told you from the beginning, don't bother trying to convince me that I can't possibly hear what I do. To my ears, and on my rig, wires DO sound differently. I've heard the differences between different amplifiers, speakers, and speaker wires. I don't care to analyze the phenomenon - I just listen. That said, I'm wiling to abandon this thread. Thanks to those who recommended wires. I've had good luck swapping about with the wires I have on hand as it turns out. The Monsters & Kimbers worked not so well with the Cornwall IIIs, but the Nordost Flatwire sounded better. For those who claim "expectation bias," the Nordosts are NOT the most expensive of the wires (the Kimbers hold that distinction), nor are they the cheapest (the Monsters hold that one). In any case, the Cornwalls still aren't "keeper" speakers for me, but with the Nordost, they sound tolerable for the time being. Cheers - Boomzilla

Actually, no loss is involved. I can sell them for what I paid. That being the case, I'll recoup my purchase price and select speakers more to my liking at the same price.

Hi Daddy Dee - You're right. It makes no sense to mod a brand new speaker set. Therefore, I'm going to sell my CW-3s and shop about for some CW-1s or some Heresy 3s with a small sub. To the Florida gent who offered to swap his CW-1s for my 3s, I say OK if you throw in an additional $1,250 and then only if your speakers are in pristine condition. For anyone in the Baton Rouge area that wants a BARGAIN on a pair of CW-3s, PM me. I'm thinking half the new price - $2K per pair.

I prefer the empirical method. I listen. I can tell you that with Kimber 12TC my speakers had too much bass, very tubby-sounding bass, and in my room, almost unlistenable bass. Switching to Nordost flat wire (their cheapest cable) cured the bass excess and some of the tubbiness. Having said that, I'm also aware that my amplifier (a Rogue Audio Tempest Magnum vacuum-tube integrated) is NOT at all typical of the average listener. Therefore, my experience may not translate to your rig. Cheers - Boomzilla

I prefer the "off axis" sound too, but then the woofer's directivity at the crossover point seems to make for a suck-out just below 700 Hz. Maybe I could tilt the cabinets back just a hair so that the woofer would be directly "on axis" at the listening position with the midrange & tweeter slightly off axis by pointing above the listening position?

Hi Moray - THANKS for the suggestions - they make lots of sense. Another option that I thought of was to wrap the existing CW3 cabinets with an external layer of 3/4" veneered plywood. That would make for tops, bottoms, sides, and back that were 1.5" thick and made of both MDF and plywood. This might be much simpler than trying to get a second set of cabinets & swap everything. What might you think of this option?

Having owned Klipsch Heritage loudspeakers before, including Heresy I and II models, La Scala I and II models, and Cornwall I models, I thought that I knew what I was getting when I bid on some Cornwall III models on eBay. I was (again) wrong. To "calibrate" this review, let me first describe my impressions of the Cornwall I models. The speakers had clean, though not extended treble, articulate midrange without excessive horn colorations, and extended bass without significant coloration or bloat. The speakers' main shortcoming was their slight softness in the midrange where the 15" woofer strained to articulate before passing off the higher frequencies to the midrange horn. Overall, the speakers' shortcoming was one of omission rather than adding anything significant to the sound. The Cornwall IIIs are a completely different animal. Klipsch has abandoned their plywood construction and now uses MDF. For their La Scala model, the MDF is significantly thicker and avoids any change to the sound. For the Cornwalls, however, the MDF is the same thickness as the previous models' plywood - 3/4". For this reason (or not?), the cabinet now "sings along" with the driver to a FAR greater extent than with the previous Cornwall model. This results not only in a very muddled bass line, but also in a "sameness" to the bass. The discontinuity between the woofer and the midrange is still there, but now is more pronounced because of the "faster" titanium driver in the midrange horn. The discontinuity, formerly only occasionally noticeable, is now distressingly audible and for almost all types of music. Further, the treble is now voiced from a titanium-diaphragm tweeter horn. Although more extended than the old Electro-Voice T-35 tweeter (used in the type I), the treble can now be excessively bright on axis. Position the speaker so that the listening position is not on axis, and the woofer-to-midrange discontinuity becomes more obvious. There's no way to win! No matter how the speakers are positioned, they never seem to speak with a single voice. To ensure that I'm getting the best of the speakers, I've used different preamplifiers (Emotiva XSP-1 and Audioquest Dragonfly feeding the amplifiers directly), different amplifiers (Emotiva Mini-X, Crown PS-400, VTL vacuum tube monoblocks, and a Rouge Audio Tempest Magnum tube integrated amplifier), and different speaker wires (yeah, I know that some say they've "proven" that wire differences can't possibly be heard, but whoooo boy - you should hear the differences between Kimber 12TC and Nordost Red Dawn on this setup!). All in all, the Cornwalls just don't work for me. Their flaws are too apparent and too great in magnitude for me to tolerate. For those who have experience with the Klipsch Cornwall model I versions, I STRONGLY advise keeping what you've got. The Model I versions are a far superior loudspeaker to the model IIIs in my opinion. Why Klipsch didn't double the cabinet thickness on the Cornwalls as they did on the La Scalas is a mystery to me. It goes without saying that all the above comments are prefaced with: "In my room..." "Using my equipment..." and "To my ears..." If I'm missing something that will magically transform these speakers from "worse than Bose" into what the Cornwall sound should be, please enlighten me! I'd hoped that these would be keepers, but unless I can change the sound of these radically, it isn't to be. Thanks - Boomzilla

In theory, you might be right. In practice, I might disagree. For example, I once owned some Thiel speakers. They had low impedance combined with a complicated crossover that presented wicked phase angles to the driving amplifier. I'd be confident making some general statements about electronics to match those Thiels: No AV receiver on the market will make the Thiels sound their best No amplifier that is current-limited will make the Thiels sound their best "Pro-sound" amplifiers, in general, will sound harsh with the Thiels The Cornwalls, being a more benign load for amplifiers, may not show such pickiness about the source amplifiers, or, for that matter, wires. On the other hand, someone may have, just by fortuitous circumstance, stumbled upon a "match made in Heaven" for the Cornwalls that exhibits a synergy not present with other pairings. Since this is the Klipsch forum, I'm hoping that some lucky Cornwall owner may be able to make me an informed recommendation. Cheers - Boomzilla

Thanks, but Mrs. Young's idiot son has better sense!

First, if you're one of those crusaders who believe that science proves that nobody can possibly hear any difference between lamp cord and other conductors, this IS NOT THE THREAD FOR YOU. Please don't waste your time or mine trying to tell me that I don't hear what I hear. Now that I've hopefully dismissed the ranters, let's get to the question: I've got a pair of Cornwall III's that I'll be driving with either a Rogue Audio Tempest tube integrated amp or with a pair of VTL compact 100 tube mono-blocks. What wires will give a good match with these choices? Thanks - Boomzilla (Moniker NOT indicative of listening preferences0

OK - The Cornwalls I'm getting are in "cherry" finish. Assuming that I might want to darken the finish some to better match my room, can I just sponge on some stain? Is there a clear-coat over the factory stain that would prevent this from working? Has ANYONE tried to refinish the II or III series speakers?

Thanks.

Since I'd rather NOT pack & freight them, it looks like CraigsList or a garage sale is the most likely option. On the other hand, I might do better to sell the individual parts on eBay and sell just the cabinets with woofers locally. The parts I could sell would include: A pair of K-77 tweeters with the rectangular magnets ($100 on eBay?) The large midrange horns with drivers ($350 to $400 on eBay?) The Bob Crites AL-3 crossovers ($300 on eBay?) The spare pair of K-77 tweeters with round, alinco magnets ($100 on eBay?) If I add properly, that is about $850 from the speakers, and I could sell the cabinets with woofers for another $50 locally. What do youse guys recommend? Part them out or hold out for a local buyer? Thanks - Boomzilla

Yes, the speakers are in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I can demo them on the carport without problems. Please contact me should you wish to see and / or hear them.

THANK YOU for the pictures! The photos bother me some, though: The guy in the paint-spray booth needs eye protection and a respirator The paint spray booth is an NFPA Class-1, Division-1 classified area, and I think that I see a draped extension cord in the background If this is so, then the employee is at risk for toxic vapor inhalation and potential fire/explosion. How long ago were those photos made? I hope the hazards have been abated since then? As to the speakers, it was a fascinating look at the construction process. My Cornwalls haven't arrived yet, and probably won't until the end of next week. I bought them on eBay and the photos looked like one of the cabinets had been dropped on one of the upper edges. Unless I'm mistaken, the construction material seems to be veneered particle board and no longer plywood? I'm sure that the fit is sufficient for structural integrity, but I must wonder about the longevity of the speakers (particularly if exposed to heat & humidity), I guess they can't be worse than anyone else's speakers because 99%+ of the speakers on the market are constructed of the same material... Boomzilla

Thanks for the compliment - Well, funny you should ask... When I got these puppies they'd been used by a band, had casters on them, and looked like this: Since I didn't have the time or skill to re-veneer them or to rebuild them, I covered them with oak vinyl flooring. I then wanted them up a bit since I'm tall. I figured any riser should need to be proportional to the box size so I used 2x4 lumber for the risers (also covered in oak flooring). Finally, I had to do something with the front since the "nose cone" of the speakers looked rough. I settled on grilles from parts-express.com and covered them in double-knit polyester to match my sofas. The original badges were sprayed silver & attached to the top of the grilles. It doesn't stand up to very close inspection, but from a foot or two away, it looks really good! Here's one of the speakers sans grille: