o0O Bill O0o

Indy, don't slight your set-up!! I wonder if you figured out the directivity, high frequency characterics, flatness in "a" critcal bass band, and output standards of the THX spec for loudspeakers the LaScala would make it? It's all depends on resources, marketing strategy, and need for THX certified Heritage series. Moreover, Klipsch is very carefull how the modify and pay homage with the Heritage series. I think they should take the RF-7 and make in to a large format monitor- JBL just left the market and there is a huge hole for Large format monitors.

Are you gonna buy some Magnepans? The issue, I feel, is that you need to get some power behind Magnepans AND add a subwoofer.. so the bang for the buck drops after you get everything setup. meaning sub+amp+MMG= System. STILL you spend $600 on MMG and add a sub and a power amp... total for less than 2K, from your opinion, one would have a killer system at equal cost. Heresys need a sub too, but the RF-7s do not need anything to make a true full-range system, hence bang for the buck, wire to amp/receiver and push play. Additionally, Heresys + a subwoofer should equal something that comes close to the MMG performance with out the need for a high output power amp.

Bang for the buck limit, $1000 per/ ea for Amps, Subs, and Speakers. New, Heresy III , RF-7 Used Klipschorns, Belles, Lascalas, Forte II, KLF 30, KLF 20, KLF 10

HSU Subwoofers are great, my annecdote: I used their automotive subwoofer in my car back in high school and college. I recommend 2 or more subs, if you get any subwoofer. Look up Floyd Toole and subwoofers on JBL or Harman internationals website for justification to why. My opinion ~$1000 is the line in the sand for price to performance ratio in anything to do with audio, speakers (ea), amps, or subwoofers. also did some more research. 2X (JBL 4645C ~$1000) + 2X (Crown XTi Power amp ~$500) + Velodyne SMS-1 ~$400 + $50 cables= $3450 (!) -But > 120 dB output 120HZ on down, which match the KLF-30 capabilities ( read hometheaterhifi's review of the Klipsch KLF-30)

I recommend that you look at a performance standard, rather than split hairs to what is better. Speaking of standards.. What are THX standards? ( They are a industry secret ) -but 20Hz performance at an unspec'd SPL, 115dB at 1 M at and unspec'd freq, and conforming to a THX Low Freq crossover slope should sketch a picture of a high performing sub. Does the SVS PB13 Ultra meet THX standards? I think a pair would meet or exceed the standard, just as the Klipsch Subwoofers have proven. Google the many charts, reviews, feedback on these subs through-out the interweb for reference. Dolby has a standard, and so does AES for playback in a recording evironment, they both point to ITU-R BS.775-1. in my words: The playback level of the LFE recording track is +10dB than the rest. Playback for all channels except the LFE level is dictated to be 85dB at the listening position. There is 20dB of "range" according to the recording standards. LFE is spec'd to be 120Hz and below. Therefore, you must be able to hit 115db in from 120Hz on down at your listening position. Do these subwoofers meet this requirement? I would conclude that they don't. specifically at the low (20Hz) end. That is why you must search for the home playback standards instead of the recording standards. *I will caveat that multiple, 8 or more should do the trick. **Moreover, two JBL 4645C, (I'm on a pro cinema sub kick) would certainly reach that in 8000 cu ft or less. So I didn't say which one is better, and I threw a bunch of nerdy audio references and knowledge out. Still you can purchase both and test them in your house, and see which one you like, then return what you don't keep. or keep them both :-) _Bill

DIY is rewarding, but ensure you have the capability. Tools, time, and more time. When I was in High School and College I built many subs and speakers. Now, I lack DIY time, and I am willing to sacrifice some budget for what JBL or Klipsch make. but not too strapped for time blow the budget on a well designed and integrated sub from a commercial design... such as tempting designs as JL Audio's F113. So my recommendation is based on time and money. More time = DIY More Money = Complete Design. The factor I can't control is education, and to get on my soap-box, that's you're responsiblity, stepping off soap box.. Hope this helped and not sounded too preachy.

Well, I am on a Pro sub kick, AND you already have big speakers what's one or two more? http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Theatre%20Series/4645C.pdf http://www.jblpro.com/pub/cinema/4645c.pdf Also go to Cinema section on the Klipsch Product page Both requires you to get your own amp, EQ, and nescesary cabling. However, you will get clean, high-output bass. Drawback is they're large. if you're staying consumer, go loyal, get the THX subs (Pair) and the AMP. The only drawback is it expensive, and doesn't have as much output as pro-audio solutions. Of course there is the variety of internet direct retailers that offer big bass in medium sized boxes for well under 2K USD.

Chris, I did take note of your great find! However, I am not in the US right now. Therefore, I must decline your offer. I am in the planning phase of my home audio and once I return I will move forward with some improvements. Right now, I found a killer deal on some JBL 4645C's so I am off in pro-audo internet land, and I am always longing for and additional walnut LaScala..

I am with you Chris I have heard the N802s and they are great, but the amplification plus there cost is just to much for me to justify... and I am a if really want it nothing will stop me from getting consumer. B&W 800 Series Diamond at CES 2010 5 x B&W 802D home theater I have read about the Pioneer speakers. TAD drivers were a part of my dream fully loaded horn speaker system I dreamt up in college. I can only imagine the translation of Pioneer Technical Audio Devices Division to the consumer. The vintage 'vettes are nice, but nothing beats what the current C6 offers.

I didn't give the corvette much, but after the first time I drove one, whew.. if we think are in music playback heaven with our Klipsch speakers, this is the parallel for the auto industry..

The analogy I am drawing is based on my perception that the base model Cheverolet Corvette is at the price point where performance is at a near maximum. Any where beyond that you're spending too much for any measured performance. Example. Corvette vs. Porsche- both awesome, but if you line up all the objective factors the Corvette is the clear winner. If you differ, just state a speaker instead of turning this into a car debate, please. The fact that money is the limiting factor is the basis for this question. Otherwise if we went for true performance Mercedez or Bugatti - Wilson Audio or Magico (Heck, Klipsch Palladium) would hold the mark has the highest performing products. ( google them if you don't know about what I am using as my comparasion) Any brand answer, no limitations to how many, place the maxium performance for the money. no limit to what you think point is, even though a 45K corvette is clearly defined- I think the price point is open for discussion. My limit is 3K a pair ( yes, I own 6K pair speakers, but I didn't pay near that) I'll start with Klipsch KLF-30, RF-7, JBL 6328P, JBL 6332, Paradigm Studio 100, B&W 600 Series (Current 683) The KLF-30 plays loud and clear some of the best sound I ever heard. Klipsch RF-7 is a close second. The JBL 6328P is actually a studio monitor, and the most neutral speaker I have ever heard. The music just comes through like wet paint on a white canvas. The JBL 6332 has even more output than the 6328. Paradigms always sound great and never have dissappointed me, the studio 100 is just amazing. B&W makes no joke ULTRA expensive speakers, some say the best, but even there "entry level" speakers really capture all the benefits, the current 683 is a great example of some well designed and sorted out speaker. It would solve alot of problems if some one had a data base or spreadsheet of all speakers and there price point and then some one came up with standard performance point (i.e. 40 to 18K +/- 2dB @ 105 dB upto 30 degrees off axis) and then let the subjetivests decide how to re-order.[]

Yes, he did intend his speaker to be equilalzed. Turning this in to a "EQ" Thread. To state you are a "no EQ Guy" with the knowledge that the entire music industry uses EQs it a use at your own risk choice.. There is the RIAA, X-Curve, Academy Curve, etc.. Google it. Equalization is a common and needed tool in all types of audio reproduction. The most popular curve is the "Smile" curve. Google it. but take the human audio spectrum and draw a curve from high on the 20Hz side dip to the middle band and then curve back up to 20KHz. Thus the "Smile" Some speakers have it built in and that is why they may say no eq needed. You think those pre 1980's recordings were FLAT? heck no. With time and technology, recording artist are producing more flatter music, but they are also killing dynamic range ( but that is a whole topic for another thread--oh and google it) My understanding- for today's playback you want to make your system "pink noise" flat at the listening position. That include use of Acoustic eq or Room treatment AND electronic EQ. So when you play your music back the only way the audio spectrum is changed is thru the music that you're playing. in other words the music dictates the eq and experience. Just like the professionals in the sound booth intended ( and how they heard it). Now, most enthusiast have to compete with Auto, Living space, spouse, kids, pets, and other factors in order to achieve playback, do you really think EQ is the issue? The reality is most are listening to compressed music in cars ( who sounds systems are less than ideal ) and a small percentage really know what there are doing. Think about it, it was possible to gather all the Klipsch users in one spot and compare to the rest of the populus, then take away the ones who don't know about proper set-up and playback, and see what you get...

Can you post pictures?

This is probably one of the most informative subwoofer threads! Small Holiday request. Can you please update the list to include the latest subwoofers? Examples: Paradigm Studio Sub 12 and Sub 15 Paradigm Signature Sub 25 Seaton Sound Submersive HSU ULS-15 AV123 MNFW-15 all SVSs, Elemental Designs, Epik Subwoofer latests If not can you please provide the Excel Sheet so I can continue updating this. -Bill

Regarding the bias here, That is exactly why I posted. That 5 Heresy and Epik Dynasty set up would be great! Before all this, I was sure that I was going to do the 5 Heresy all around and have 2 Seaton Submersives.. and the more I stare what I just typed my mind begins to manifest the desire for said set-up.. I'd say that's a vote for Klipsch Heresys. I'd be using the A/V Reciever in my sig block. Rated 130w X 7. _Bill

This is what I get for sitting far away from home and having the ability to access forums and opinions on the internet... [Poll] With out hearing these (the most critical factor) can anyone provide feedback regarding this ~$800 each speaker comparison. Additionally $4400 (!) Subwoofer input is well come (see note below) For your information the solution I have come up with is: 5 identical monitors and 2 subwoofers. Where the sound is consistent from monitor to monitor and there is plenty of headroom and reduced “nulls” in low frequency effects. This of course is augmented by my A/V receiver’s ability to automatically optimize the acoustics (thru DSP) with is supplied calibrating mic. More specifically, the consumer models I had in mind are Package 1: 5 Klipsch Heresy speakers and 2 JL Audio F113 Subwoofers. Package 2: 5 Paradigm Studio 20 and 2 Paradigm Studio Sub 12 w/ the Perfect Bass Kit (in room bass correction DSP). Package 3: Paradigm Signature S1, 2 Paradigm Studio Sub 12 w/ the Perfect Bass Kit. Package 4: 5 Paradigm Signature S1, 1 Paradigm Signature Sub 25 w/ the Perfect Bass Kit. I think these all fall around ~$8500 (!) total, +/- $500. All of these speakers performance are uncompromising. We’re talking about hitting 105db at the listening position without breaking a sweat. Additionally, in a 2000-2500 cu ft room sub 20 Hz at that output. I'm looking for headroom. If you’re not sure to what I’m talking about follow the links. Reviews Paradigm Stuido 20 and forum link Paradigm Signature S-1 The Heresy III has no current pro reviews, still there is great feedback, and from what I know with my other heritage expirences I won't be dissappointed. Okay, I am sure I left you with you head scratching.. but thanks anyway for talking the time to humor my “shut in” obsession with getting some sweet gear. _Bill note: I do understand that many internet direct companies such as SVS manufacture high performing equipment with great value. However, they are missing the refinement of JL Audio or Paradigm.. or even Velodyne. There are far too many issues regarding quality control, even if there is outstanding customer support to back it. I want it right the first time. I feel that there is great effort put into Internet Direct companies, but even greater effort is put for the Store bought products. There are many people depending on the success of a product and they have to stand behind, specifically salesmen, supply, chain and the user for going out of his way to listen. Also it my opinion it goes like this, Product released, profesional review, User review, Salesman review and lastly forum user review. Most of all, I want to hear before I buy, and I will not be able to hear them until next fall, when I am state side.

I like the symetry, but I have read MANY instances that two is better than one.. [] You will like it. _Bill

The whole Genre is awesome! Look it up on Wikipedia My recommedation. Kamelot. These guys rock, I have Black Halo and Ghost Opera. _Bill as far as your ability to have more than a block of text, I get advanced feature using IE and Firefox, but not on Safari (booo)

Hey all, New York Times published an article about how Vinyl Sales are increasing. I am super excited to get back home and raiding the vinyl stores.. I think the magic is that not only do they sound great, but the massive album covers,footnotes and the whole physical expirence is fun. Sure beats Compressed Music. _Bill

Secondary Audio? Must be unique feature of that DVD player. Glad it worked. I had a hunch that you had to manually select the surround format to True HD. It would be nice if manufactures of electronics came up with a standard protocol to communicate and therefor the BD player would have known to select True HD for you because the BD Disc had True HD on it and that you set "the the audio setting in your receiver to the hIghest ".. aah technology. -Bill

:-) it's just got one! puff puff give! It's an Authentic Iraqi "Narguileh" (or to us a Hooka ) I got it during my last tour in Baghdad. It was given to me as gift from the local nationals for the hard work we had done.. to say the least. -Bill

Any Luck? Laager stated just about the same thing we've been saying... and I am having a tough time focusing with his avatar.. -Bill

Okay the poll will account for Non US Service Members. Please post Service and Country. _Bill

Hey Pete, After looking and reading around on the web about Processors.. and my experience with Tech and gadgetry.. Getting a something as important as a Processor requires getting something better than what you can get in a reciever. duh. However, almost all receivers have HDMI and MOST have some sort of room EQ or optimization. This is where even the best from the best companies fall short, allthough you can "add on" HDMI or Room EQ for a price. but it's not integrated. I can't stress that enough. Look at the audyssey site for a complete list of processors/ receivers that come standard with WHAT level of processing.. Yamaha and Sony all have variations of the same thing. I have a Yamaha and the sound optimization does work. but I am not compelled to say which one is the best. I just know when it's on or off, So in light of my lexicon recommendation, I personally weigh room optimization as an important or must have procedure, and there for weigh the NAD recommendation over the lexicon. HOWEVER, you still can add Audyssey processing to the Lexicon via their external processing but I think we're paying a premimum now that you have no interest in justifying. Just a thought. -Bill

why throw in the "mono" , I'm sure your stating what was the format of the media at the time. but that is my case-in-point, Accurate reproduction. I would also add to bring the live performance home. Hey, can we get a poll running this late in the game on this thread? -Bill