opteron44

Hi, I've kept in mind what Bob Crites told me: if I was going to do only one upgrade, the benefit of doing the diaphragms was significantly greater than doing the crossovers. As such, I have left things as they are in the speaker area. However, I was fortunate enough to find a well-priced used Grant Fidelity B-283 which sits in between the Direct output mode of my Emotiva UMC-1 (when I am listening to music) and the XPA-3 amp. The difference made by this tube stage with the KG-4's is quite significant in both sound stage depth and responsiveness. I also moved to an Oppo BDP-80 Blu-ray player and completed the system with a Panasonic TCP50ST30 plasma TV. These changes pushed me to the end of the budget, so unless something breaks or something unexpected happens, I'm done for now.

Thanks for the insight, Jim. I think that I was using Chrome on my PC. With that in mind, I used IE and regained some control - at least enough to allow me to edit and repost. Thanks!

My posting was actually written twice - each time, my paragraph spacing disappeared in the preview pane when I reviewed it. After the second time, I just gave up. I have no idea why this happened and am sorry for the difficulty in reading it.

As some of you may recall, I had been considering moving to Fortes from my original KG-4's. While the responses were quite encouraging, I found that the ones in my area on CraigsList were sold before I could arrange for an audition prior to purchase. Having read positive comments about the crossovers and replacement horn diaphragms from Bob Crites, I called him to get his thoughts about the possible results from his items. To my surprise, he suggested that the diaphragms at $52 would likely have a greater effect on the sound than the $210 crossovers. With shipping, the diaphragms cost $58.00. If you haven't the patience to read further and wonder if you should try them, the answer is simple - do it! I printed out the installation instructions on his website and had them nearby when the package arrived a few days later. As you may know, the upper woofer overlaps the bottom lip of the KG-4's horn. As such, you need to first loosen the upper screws of the woofer and then remove the screws retaining the horn. As with removing a wheel from your car, I suggest removing the screws in a cross pattern so that the weight of the horn is spread out as evenly as possible. Once I got to the last screw, I held the horn in place as the last screw came out. After noting which wire was plugged on to which post, I removed the wires and removed the horn being careful to make sure that the gasket was left in place. I then followed Crites' instructions to replace the factory diaphragms. (He made a point of telling me not to touch the surface of the titanium dome. I took him seriously and suggest you do as well.) The horn was then returned to the cabinet and the screws tightened following a cross pattern. As with a wheel, the final tightening is only done when all of the screws were back in place. It's easy to tell when you've used enough torque to hold the horn in place. Once you get to that point, stop turning. From start to finish, less than 30 minutes was spent in doing this. While there may be some questions, given the composition of the diaphragm, I decided to do no serious listening until they had about 10 hours of break-in time. The difference was striking. The original cast recording of "Mack and Mabel" had been a little thin before. Now it had razor sharp definition, but was really close to being too much out of balance treble to mid to bass. Next up was the opening quintet from Sondheim's "A Little Night Music". Previously, I had enjoyed the ease of locating the singer's positions relative to each other. It was even easier now and many passing notes in the orchestration were audible that had gotten lost before. But, it was brighter than I liked - an issue that hadn't come up before. I thought about one poster's comment to the effect that this upgrade to the Kg-4 made him feel the lack of a dedicated mid-range horn. What to do? My listening room is a difficult one: 9' w x 18 l with a 7.5' ceiling. We sit in front of a built-in bookcase on the short wall and the speakers are set on 1" brass fittings on 1" thick ash cutting boards on top of the rug with the fronts of the cabinets 103" in front of our ears. (Thanks to my wife for allowing this placement.) Apart from the improvement in the sound, the cutting boards allow for relatively easy positioning. Guessing, I pulled the speakers towards me by 2". Now the sound was suddenly short on the top end. I pushed them back an inch and there it was. The highs were now both much smoother and clearer and the overall sound was much better balanced while still providing a deep, wide sound stage with instruments and singers easy to hear. The same improvement was easily noticeable in the 2nd movement of Rachmaninoff's 2nd symphony with Previn leading the LSO. The soundtrack to "Cinema Paradiso" was also better. In particular, there is a brief duet with French horn and saxophone that had always had me guessing at the second instrument. Lastly, I listened to the 2nd movement of the Sibelius 5th symphony with Maazel and the Weiner Philharmoniker. This was remarkably improved - the inner voicings of the strings were fully audible, showing how carefully Sibelius had constructed the development of the themes that were brought to the fore by the French horns. So, an easy installation at a delivered cost of $58, an adjustment of the speaker location and I've significantly changed my system for the better. I'll think seriously about whether I really need to spend the money for the Fortes or just get the Crites crossovers for the KG-4's. If I eventually opt for the Fortes, I would need to budget for the cost of the Crites diaphragms for them. Judging by what I have gotten from my KG-4's, there is no way I would not spend the extra money for them for the Fortes. In any case, if you have KG-4's, I believe that I am safe in saying that, until you get the Crites diaphragms (and possibly reposition the speakers), you haven't heard all that your speakers can bring you.

Well, while I was looking at the responses to my inquiry and thinking about them, both of the deals I was looking at on the local CraigsList disappeared. Perhaps it was for the best. While thinking about the money, the effort to get the replacements in the house and up to the listening room, move the KG-4's out, etc. I had been looking at other threads in the forum. I noticed that the Crites crossovers and titanium replacement diaphragms got reviews from positive to rhapsodic. While, clearly, anything I might do with the KG-4's could lead only to incremental improvement, rather than revolutionary change, I began to wonder if - all things considered - that might be satisfactory at this point. I recognize that to some here, this is an heretical point (no pun intended), but it seemed to me worth exploring. So, I called and spoke with Klipsch Tech Support about him and, after receiving a positive report, I talked with Bob Crites at some length about my situation. I was quite impressed with his clear and thoughtful approach. He suggested that I might realize the most significant improvement with the diaphragms, rather than the crossovers. Not that they are mutually exclusive, but he thought that, in my position, that's where he would start. For $58.00, they are on their way to me. After all, at worst, the difference will be minimal (as will the outlay) and I can always resume looking for other speakers. But, if I have the same good experience as others have had, then it may be that even with getting the crossovers as a second step, it may turn out that I can get where I want to be for right around $300. Just now, this approach makes good sense to me and so I'll see where it leads. To be sure, I want to thank everyone again for taking the time to think about my question and share their opinion here. Once I complete the installation and allow for break-in listening time, I'll report the outcome in a new thread.

In my area (Philadelphia), Forte I's are going for $550 and Forte II's (with some throw in's) for $650. Given that I am not real good with a soldering iron, the prospect of changing any part of the circuitry is not a happy one. At the same time, as has been mentioned, the difference in dollars is very compelling. Given the size of the room (and the fact that my wife has been good enough to allow me to put the KG-4's effectively in the middle of the room), looking at anything larger is really not practical - even if I could lift them. One of the key questions is whether spending the money for the Forte, let alone the Heresy, will produce enough of a difference for me that will justify the expense. This is just one of the things that makes this whole bsiness of audio so interesting - you just don't know what you're getting until it's in your room with your equipment. I paid a guy to audition the Ohm speakers that he had for sale on Audiogon. Since he lived close by, it was all right with him. I'm glad that he was willing. The sound stage was most impressive, but, to my ear, while the bass was present, it was overly refined. After a couple of other test tracks, it was obvious that I wasn't going to be happy with them and so I considered the payment part of the learning curve. I do appreciate the interest that you all have taken in my situation and, should anyone else care to chime in, I would welcome it. In any case, I'll post whatever I end up with, whenever I end up with it.

I apologize for the confusion over "last speakers". Just to clarify: I am retired and have limited money to put into my system. Having recently replaced my pre/pro and amplifers - with excellent results - my budget limit is in sight. Once the front speakers are done, I will still need to leave money for the eventual replacement of the CD player. (To my ears, there is a noticeable difference between the Oppo and the Rotel, to say nothing of the convenience of a dedicated player.) So, while I recognize that there are always new possibilities, I also must recognize the limitations of my resources. I can only drool over the system specs I see here, but, what I have now is pretty good and I will better it insofar as I can. I have auditioned a fair number of speakers from Aperion, Magnepan, and a bunch of others and, to my ears (and my wife's), the overall presentation of the KG-4's is significantly better than what the others had to offer with the music that we listen to. And, frankly, the performance for HT is not too shabby either. So, I'm hoping to spend the money and get a significant improvement and - so far as I can tell - the Heritage series is the best choice for me. The question is which way to go. (By the way, I tore a tendon in my elbow installing the XPA-3 and, given the most optimistic assumption for recovery, I will be hard pressed to get anything large up the steps and positioned. This is an important consideration as well...)

Hello all, I have been waiting for my elbow to heal before upgrading from my current KG-4's. Recognizing the obvious limitations in such a question, it appears that I can choose between Fortes and Heresy III. I listen primarily to classical music, although the speakers will serve as fronts in my HT. Current equipment includes Oppo BDP-80, Rotel 855CD, Emotiva UMC-1 Pre/Pro, Emotiva XPA-3 amp (fronts and center), Emotiva UPA-2 amp (rears), Klipsch KG-4 (front), Emotiva ERM-1, Acculine A-1 (rear), Dali S 1.2 (sub). The room is 9' wide x 17' long x 7.5' high and the fronts are 9.5' from the listening position. The Fortes are much cheaper, have deeper bass, but, since all that I have seen are original, subject to the wear and tear of use, humidity, etc. The Heresy III's are new, more expensive, less bass. All things being equal, these are probably the last speakers that I will be purchasing and I would like to get it right. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

My room is problematic: 9w x 18l x 7.h5 with me sitting back against one of the short walls. Originally, my front speakers were placed even with the front of the TV - about 14' away from my couch. It was suggested that I move them closer and, when I got them 7' away, the soundstage improved dramatically. Depending on the recording, I really have an almost 3 dimensional performing space behind the front plane of the speakers. (Of course, I am fortunate that my wife does not object to their placement smack in the middle of the room!) So, I'm curious, where do you all have your front speakers for 2 channel listening. (I should add that my HT experience did not materially suffer, probably because of the center channel binding the sounds together). Thanks. System: Sony WEGA 32FS13, Rotel CD855 CD Player, Oppo BDP-80 Blu-Ray / DVD Player, NAD T-163 pre/pro, Front /Center Amp: Emotiva XPA-3, Rear Amp: Emotiva UPA-2, Front Speakers: Klipsch KG-4 (1986), Rear Speakers: Acculine A-1 (2009), Center Speaker: Emotiva ERM-1(2009), Sub: Dali S 1.2 (2008)

Pretty funny! Thaks for the good wishes: when I get them in, I will post my review.

Thanks for your thoughts, gentlemen. I am encouraged by everything I am reading about the H III's and think that they will be a meaningful step up for me. Given the size of my room (9 x 18 x 7.5), I think that they are probably as large as I can go with the Heritage line. From what I have seen here, it would appear fair to think that if the Emotiva amp does a great job with the KG-4, I should be happy with what it does with the H III's. Unfortunately, I have to wait for my strained elbow to heal before I can order them - right now, I couldn't get them up the steps into the listening room!

I have found another option to upgrade and wanted to know any opinions. Since I use the system mostly for 2 channel music, I am posting here. Here is my system: Sony WEGA 32FS13, Rotel CD855 CD Player, Oppo BDP-80 Blu-Ray / DVD Player, NAD T-163 pre/pro, Front /Center Amp: Emotiva XPA-3, Rear Amp: Emotiva UPA-2, Front Speakers: Klipsch KG-4 (1986), Rear Speakers: Acculine A-1 (2009), Center Speaker: Emotiva ERM-1(2009), Sub: Dali S 1.2 (2008) I am thinking of getting Heresy III's for up front and using one of the KG-4's as a center channel (and selling the Emotiva center channel) for HT use. 1. Will the Dali sub provide whatever I lose in the bass response by making this change? 2. Can I place the Heresy's in roughly the same place as the KG-4's and get the same full soundstage that allows flexibility in seating along the opposite wall (not a small sweet spot)? 3. Any reasons this is a good or bad idea? Thanks very much for all thoughts.

Hi, I kind of thought the same, but was curious what would be others' opinions. In any event, they are gone now, but at least I'll know for the future... Thanks for your thoughts.

Hello, I have a pair of KG 4's that I am very happy with. A pair of KG 4.2's just showed up at a great price on Craigslist. For my HT, I as wondering if I could use a 4.2 for a center channel, using the 4.2 's up front and a 4 in the middle, or passing on them altogether and looking for another 4. I listen primarily to 2 channel classical, but do want to improve the HT. (The current center is an Emotiva ERM-1, which is just not well matched to the 4's.) Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

Thanks very much to both of you for responding. Perhaps arranging for an audition in my room could be a good way to go. (I did this a couple of months ago with a pair of Ohm F2's - and was glad that I did so: great soundsatge, but not so great presentation of orchestral textures.) I must say, though, the prospect of having to do work on them, however, is a bit off-putting. If they sound good enough to buy, how can I know whether they are in or out of spec? The closest Heritage dealer is 100 miles outside of Philadelphia and adding the cost of parts and labor could push the total price up sigificantly. To be sure I have no way of knowing whether my KG-4's are anywhere near their specs : - { In the end, it's hard to know whether and how hard to push beyond the sound I have now and, as you point out, it all comes down to what I hear and like... Much to think about, which is part of my addiction to music to begin with. Thanks again, folks.