Obsidian

I'll have to check out Audio Perfection because I'm not going back into the Roseville Audio King ever again. I went in today to the Roseville store in order to check out line conditioners and the prick sales representative was there. He told me that Klipsch would never sell their products online (and specifically not their computer speakers). At least he remembered me ... but it was just so he could be a dick. It's like he doesn't know what the internet is, or that Klipsch even has a web site! Ever try telling someone that water is wet only to have them tell you it's not?!? I don't get it. I thought he was just being an *** because he could ... who knows. Regardless, now there are at least three other people (my coworkers that were with me this last time) that are never going to buy from Audio King again. We're all web developers and we have all been to www.klipsch.com at some time or another. Two of us own KLF-20s and love them. None of us could believe that this sales rep was such an ***. Since no brick and mortar store can beat the prices online they should be trying to win over consumers with kindness and customer service. ... oh well, maybe I'm wrong? Maybe people go to stores to be talked down to and told what they should buy? ... not me ... It's a shame that one misinformed and condescending sales rep was responsible for loosing that much business for the store. Could some one please talk to the Minnesota Klipsch Representative to inform these people? That's just horrible customer service. This message has been edited by Obsidian on 08-29-2001 at 11:48 PM

I just wanted to thank everyone for the responses. I also wanted to say that I usually have great experiences at Audio King stores. In Minnesota they are really the only place that I can get my audiophile fix. I purchased my first pair of KLF-20s from that particular store seven years ago. I even spent $2500 a month ago on a nice Sony 36 TV. So its not like I let one argumentative sales rep ruin my experience there. I needed a little more clarity on the internet sales policy. It looks like I should be able to get one in a few weeks with all the legal jargon that goes along with it. thanks Bob Im not particularly worried about a warranty with Klipsch speakers. All of my friends own Klipsch speakers. Ive got two sets of them in my house now. Ive never had a problem with any of them. None of us have ever needed to replace a driver or repair any of them. It seems to me that the speakers are designed to outlast their relatively short warranty. I ordered a KLF-C7 and RS-3s over the internet about a year ago. Ive had no problems with them either and I dont expect any. But it sounds like I wouldnt be able to make any claim under warranty anyway. But I got them for under half of retail price, and I couldn't ignore the oppertunity to get them at that time. Im curious why an immensely respected company like Klipsch wouldnt stand behind their speakers even if they were sold via the web (provided they were only registered by one owner new). It seems to me that I should be able to buy a new Klipsch product from any place and have the company stand behind it. I dont know what the issue would be other than maybe delivery (but then the shipper is to blame for damage). I understand the control-freak mentality over products if you are trying to gain some exclusivity and thus perceived prestige. It seems to me that volume sales would be more beneficial to all of your customers, and increase your market share at the same time. Would it really cost Klipsch a lot more money to stand behind their new speakers with a warranty? I cant imagine such well build speakers would have so many problems within the 5 year period. Thanks again for all the comments. I love Klipsch speakers and I really like Audio King. There is always that chance that you will run into that bad sales person or two This message has been edited by Obsidian on 08-27-2001 at 11:40 AM

Even Bose speakers have their place ... besides the trash that is I'm actually impressed at their store in the Mall of America, but their CDs are all labled with Bose on them ... I was thinking of bringing in some of the CDs from my home collection ... like "Hanson" or "The Best of the Muppets" ... and watch the speakers fold in on themselves Seriously though ... any company (Bose) that makes radio-remotes is at least OK in my book ... I just wish more vendors would catch on.

I was wondering if Klipsch had any policy regarding selling their products online? Furthermore, can an authorized dealer sell their products over the web? Are ALL the authorized dealers in your online database? If a person buys their speakers from eBay and they are new (unopened) can the buyer still exercise the warranty? Is there any place to find this information? Im asking because of a horrible experience I had at an Audio King in Roseville Minnesota. The Klipsch sales rep there was either lying to me or was lied to by their Klipsch representative. Supposedly (according to this sales rep) Klipsch doesnt allow sales of their product online. In fact according to him Klipsch doesnt sell their products online at all obviously this isnt the case if youve ever seen the web store. But, does Klipsch allow the sale of their product online? If there was a brick and mortar store that was selling Klipsch speakers via the web would this be illegal or against Klipsch policy somehow? Are there any Authorized Klipsch Dealers with web stores? Oddly enough the Audio King that I was at isnt even listed in the authorized dealer listing. Does this mean they arent authorized dealers? Sorry for all the legal questions

Ive got another concern about integrated amplifiers in speakers; the power cords. Most true audiophiles have some kind of line conditioner or at the very least a surge protector. Its easy to plug in external amps when they are all nice and neat on your audio rack. But it would be a pain in the *** to have to run extension cords from the main speakers back to a power supply. Id argue that most systems main speakers are at least 15 feet apart from one another. So even if the power cords that plugged into the integrated amps were eight feet long it would still be a tight fit. With speaker wire you can cut it (ok maybe not the REALLY high end stuff), but power cords are a different story. Additionally I would never want to have to run a power cord up the wall to the surround speakers. If you were planning the installation while building a house this might not be much of an issue, but otherwise its just going to add to the wire clutter. Despite the debates not to do it, personally Id like to hear exactly what such a perfectly matched system could sound like. The quality of the sound could very well outweigh any negatives when done correctly. Companies have been increasingly putting amps in their speakers for dedicated subwoofers but thats only been a proven design in the front speakers.

The 30's aren't video shielded nor are the 20's. Only the KLF-C7 is shielded in the Legend Series. You'll still have to keep them away from the television.

Another good question to ask is; how much are you willing/able to spend? The Quintet Microsystem is good but its no doubt the lower end of the Klipsh product offering. I can understand where youre coming from though, having been 15 once myself, and trying to build a good system. The Quintet system will undoubtedly sound good for the room size as long as they are coupled with a subwoofer. Id recommend springing for any of the Synergy series speakers if you can afford them. They will last longer than the Quintets and they will sound fuller. Given your choices Id say get the SC-1. If you can afford the SF-1 for the front speakers Id suggest those too. The rear speakers are not as important in a first system as the front speakers are. Youve got a lot of loud music playing ahead of you; it would be best to get some speakers that would last the abuse

What normally happens with the small / large settings on AV receivers is that small sends less power to the speaker sometimes in wattage sometimes in frequency. Large often allows for the maximum wattage rating and maximum sound frequency. Your setup now is sending 100 watts to each channel. This will sound great across the front with the setting adjusted to large or normal since you have very well matched front speakers. You might want to place the center channel at small if you had a piece of crap KLH speaker or some other bargain basement speaker. Because crappy speakers cant produce the same sound frequency that good speakers can they never sound as good with the large setting because they just dont have large sound. Another thing you might notice in your setup is that the Bose rear speakers need to be adjusted (+2 to +10) in order to sound all right with the Klipsch fronts. This is due to the Klipsch speakers being more efficient at lower volume levels. The Bose speakers need more power to produce the same volume of sound. Just remember the small setting would be for small speakers or speakers incapable of handling a large frequency. Now that you have Klipsch speakers you wont need to worry about the small setting.

Ive got to admit that Im surprised no one has mentioned Miller & Kreisel (M&K) subs yet. They too are at the high end of the spectrum for price but the offer a great performance. I dont think they tout as low distortion as the Velodyne subs but they are really sweet sounding. I think that most of the recommendations here are a bit ridiculous given that the question was about C V subs so I decided to add to the insanity If the question is about C V subs (which are average subs at best) I dont think anything over $1000 is really in the same price range. The C V subs often cut out at low frequency. Whats the consensus here on Sunfire Subs? I know the True Sub Junior sounds ok and isnt such a strain on the pocket book. I also cant stress enough that you just need to listen to the speakers before you buy. Sometimes this is hard to do if not impossible given location and the local market, but if you can its worth more advice than this whole message board can give you

I could only find the stats for the Onkyo TX-830 and those were as follows: "58 watts per channel into 8 ohms, 20Hz to 20kHz with no more than 0.08% total harmonic distortion" I assume the TX-840 isn't far off of those specs. Receivers are a really big personal preference due to familiarity and design as well as connectivity and features. I'm a Sony lover myself and I'd look into the STR-V444ES or the like if you're going to get a new receiver. I know the Onkyo 787 has six powered channels but if you're not going to use all of those channels then you might be able to find a nice looking functional receiver of a different brand. Of course if you are trying to keep all the components the same brand then you should stick with what you've got Either way you look at it I don't think the $1200 is worth the difference in the Onkyo systems you listed.

Id like to preface my comments with a disclaimer that speakers sound different to different people. With that out of the way Two weeks ago I just upgraded my speaker system. I had two Klipsch KLF-20s for mains and some really crappy speakers (I wont even mention the brands they were that bad) for the center channel and the surrounds. When I purchased the KLF-20s five years ago I thought they sounded better than the KLF-30s. To me the sound was tighter and less bass-laden in the 20s and they were considerably cheaper at that particular time, so I went with the smaller KLF-20s. I also made this choice because I already owed an M&K MX-200 (www.mksound.com) subwoofer. I knew that Id easily make up for any booming bass hits with the subwoofer. I just recently got the KLF-C7 to finally match up my center with the mains and the improvement from that one speaker alone made a phenomenal difference in my DVD movies. I no longer needed to boost the center channel in order to get the same sound output, and everything was at the factory default flat setting, no equalizer needed. It sounds crisp and clean. I finally dont have to turn up the volume to hear whispering on the screen and then turn it down again before any action scenes. I also replaced the rear speakers I had with RS-3s. This made a minimal difference but at least I can now hear the subtleties again without having the rear channel adjusted at +10. You may get different mileage in a different room but in my living room the sound is great at low listening levels and a tad overwhelming when turned up. Id recommend (as does Klipsch) going with the KLF-C7 for the center channel. The front channels are really up to personal preference. As for a subwoofer, I wouldnt recommend getting one at first. Try out the speakers. If you think they lack some bass get a sub. Unfortunately I cant recommend going with a Klipsch sub. I think its the ONLY thing they havent gotten quite right yet. Go to a place where you can compare subs if you can. There are several others available at the same price that I feel are better sounding. Check out the Sunfire True Sub Junior - it goes for $800 retail and takes up a fraction of the space. Good luck!