Quiet_Hollow
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Posts posted by Quiet_Hollow
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1 hour ago, Mighty Favog said:
Did all HIP's have the same networks? All drivers are original. I'll be ordering a rebuild kit from Bob.
Same types of networks yes (HIE). Capacitors and woofers are different types depending on year of manufacture. Oil filled vs potted and EVM12L vs K-42 respectively.
1 hour ago, Mighty Favog said:The backs are pretty stuck even after the screws are removed. Is there a secret to getting them off or is it just brute strength? I've taken out the terminal cup the grab hold of the back panel but, MAN, are they stuck!
3/4" x 1/16" neoprene gasket. Very good stuff. I got my roll from TCH web. Kudos to using the terminal cup hole as a grab hold instead of trying to pry along the seam from the exterior.
1 hour ago, Mighty Favog said:-What was the original paint on these? black wrinkle.
That checks.
See also here for reference:
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On 4/6/2018 at 1:22 AM, DizRotus said:
If they only work below 30 Hz, they’re probably not needed for most music. A traditional sub would probably still be needed for ~ 25 Hz to ~ 80 Hz. Did you listen to any music with TRW engaged?
Yes, just a little bit. Of all things, Bob was/is really into choral music. Unless there was a part with a pipe organ accompaniment, the device was never called upon. Regular pop tunes sounded great (whatever I brought with me at the time), but more so by way of his custom designed room and kick-*** planar arrangement than simply the addition of a subwoofer fit for the gods. Naturally, movie soundtracks and specialty recordings are what truly flexed its muscle.
Regardless of the apparent novelty, the sound/experience was very hi-fi. It was tuned spot-on and performance was seamless. Bob's install was by the book, and top notch in every way. I really had to struggle to hear the fan idling from the listening position when it was engaged. The build quality of the fan device by Bruce and the amplifier by Phil at Marchand will last a lifetime.
I visited there twice, and both times left laughing at the absurdity of its power. Log sweeps were a real eye opener. I'm talking about settling the neighbor's foundation here. I am surprised his room hasn't been reduced to a pile of rubble yet...it can get that crazy.
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17 hours ago, DizRotus said:
If the former, elaboration would be appreciated.
No problem Neil.
A while ago I made a point to visit this gentleman's house a couple times for a "listen":
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1301446-rotary-woofer.html
Thing is, a person does not simply "listen" to that kind of SPL at the those frequencies. It's more of a "ride" for lack of better words.
The TRW is without compare in the 30 Hz and below range. Above that, as Carl mentioned, there are complementary options. It is an install item, so you must have a house at your disposal to equip with the beast.
All the "real world" LF performance you could think of. A team of horses running through the room. Cake. Truly authentic thunder? As in the kind that pops every 2x4 joint in the house all at once and scares the neighbor's dogs? Done. BA-BOOM! Simulate a quarry blasting that day? No sweat KA-----BOOM! Goofy stuff like the recreating the inside sound of car with the windows down at 80? Yup, that too, until everyone gets a headache and wants to puke.
Then there's parlor tricks like sucking the air in and out of the room at 0.3 Hz to randomly close and open doors in the house. Needle drops can rearrange the floor joists. A total exercise in caution. Fun stuff....but spendy mind you.
If I had the place and the coin, I'd totally get one.
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Kink, I’m in Tucson as well. Drop me a PM if you’d like to discuss further. -QH
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2 hours ago, DizRotus said:
Does anyone here have experience with rotary subwoofers?
Yes.
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1 hour ago, oldtimer said:
It's flat there isn't it?
Not really. There's a 700' drop from one side of town to the other.
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I usually get "stereo guy" from the uninitiated.
That or something like, "...I dunno, ask him, he's really into stereo."
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Eagles. FTW! Excellent work Philly!
...And my hats off to another performer this past year.....our make shift Gray-Hoverman TV antenna.
Cobbled together out of a piece of cardboard, tape, and some leftover speaker cable, we used it to catch every NFL game we watched OTA this year in full HD and Dolby Digital surround sound. No short feat considering that even in half-bridge configuration, and placed on our floor, it still pulls 65% signal from a tower nearly 40 miles away on Mt. Lemon!
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On 1/30/2018 at 4:53 PM, hsosdrummer said:
If you went to someone's house to hear their Jubilees and found them running inadequate amplification with an incorrectly set up electronic crossover and incorrectly deployed DSP, you would rightly blame the owner for the speakers' lousy performance, and not the speakers.
...Wish that were the case.
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Critics be damned, we both enjoyed it. Tear jerker.
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8 hours ago, ka7niq said:
You MUST use one of those modes on my SC 87
If all that's available at the time is those four, then by all means stick with Auto Surround. It'll detect the the 2-ch signal and stay in stereo.
The only "issue" with that mode for those of us with extra speakers attached is that it keeps the center and surrounds amps idling. Selecting stereo by cycling through the surround modes will shut off all the other amps not associated with that activity. The bus relays then switch off, which is what I prefer strictly for 2 ch.
We've both got the same unit BTY. The menu may be more limited in part by the use of 2.1 vs. 5.1, bi-amping or not , etc...
Referencing Section 6, pages 65-66 in the operators manual.
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4 hours ago, Schu said:
I've been playing music with "extended surround sound" and it sounds quite good with a 5.1 setup.
I agree, and often use this either for game day or when falling to sleep to ambient sounds/music. It envelopes the room
4 hours ago, Schu said:I am not sure how it determines what frequencies go to which of the five speakers from a 2 channel recording, but it sounds "nearly" like a true 5.1 studio remix.
It's mirrored stereo, no center, equal SPL, no convolution applied, subwoofer active. Gets the most power into the room utilizing all attached speakers. In older surround receivers, it was known as "Party Mode". Similar in function to distributed audio.
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My expert opinion is to buy an ATMOS capable receiver solely for its ability to process the object-based sound field bitstream, and nothing more.
Dolby and DTS companies market object based surround encoding as a highly scalable technology. Do the math, what scales up also scales down. Quite wonderfully in fact. Their 2, 3, and 5 channel down-mixes have never sounded better.
If a person encounters difficulty in achieving a convincing surround field with 2 or 5 channels, throwing more speakers at the problem is not the solution.
Speaker-wise, beyond 5 channels is the point of quickly diminishing returns. Where ceiling speakers are concerned, if the building's got 'em, smoke 'em, but I would never spec a brand new HT install based around their use.
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On 12/23/2017 at 6:30 PM, ka7niq said:
My Pioneer Elite SC 87 ONLY has these 4 modes, and AFAIK, you must use one of these.
There's several more available, contingent upon how many speakers are connected. In a typical 2-ch setup, basic stereo output (with all MCACC processing enabled) is achieved by cycling through the surround listening modes (SURR button on the remote) until "STEREO" is displayed.
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Seeing some of that action here already.
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2 hours ago, jwgorman said:
tame the dreaded 140Hz hump
Dreaded? That's a little over top...how about "corner frequency?"
2 hours ago, jwgorman said:...just wanted to see if there's a passive fix.
Re-design the cabinet.
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Welcome to the dark side.
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7 hours ago, ka7niq said:
I am more used to Audyssey, and initially did not like MCACC as much as Audyssey, until I played with it. Now, I like it MORE
I own and have significant experience with an AS-EQ1, a stand alone XT32 unit purposed strictly for subwoofer duty. Although I respect the approach of all the consumer available DSP, Pioneer was the first to put everything I wanted all under one roof and price it for mortals....cough, TacT, cough.
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The spring in the Deltron are the tightest in the industry. No locking feature necessary as it takes almost 10 lbs of force just to move them. It's the first thing you notice when you go to plug everything in.....they be very tight.
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The Pioneer Elite series amps pack a serious amount of DSP capability into a single unit. Like all good horn speakers, they [AVRs] are not simply plug and play. I'm posting my settings so that if anyone happens to run any of the big Heritage speakers, and use, or will soon be using a Pioneer AVR they'll have a decent audible benchmark from which to gauge their experience from.
Note: Arguably these setting are strictly my preference, but they have been cultivated through a few years of experimenting and comparative listening to a wide variety of music, movies, various headphones. Not to mention simply unplugging once in a while to enjoy the sounds of nature and humanity in real life. Think "starting point" and go from there.
Either through the iControlAV5 app or via the remote Receiver-Main/Audio P. (parameter) menu:
PQLS - OFF This is a signal clocking feature unique to Pioneer branded Blu-ray players which I do not own, otherwise I would have this turned on.
EQ - ON This is the response profile the DSP develops for your system when running a MCACC sweep, which I highly recommend the ALL Channel Adjust feature when doing so.
Standing Wave - ON
Phase Control - ON
Auto Phase Control - ON
LFE ATT (Attenuation) - ON but set to (0)
Tone - BYPASS
Auto Sound Retriever (ASR) - OFF This feature is a big offender, the unit ships with this engaged. Turn it off unless all you plan to listen to is 128k MP3.
Digital Noise Reduction (DNR) - OFF Don't confuse this with the Dynamic Range Compression (DRC) feature found in the Home menu.
Dialog Enhancement - OFF
X-Curve - (-0.5)
Audio Scaler - OFF
Hi-Bit 32 - OFF
Digital Filter - SLOW
Up Sampling - OFF
Virtual Depth - OFF
Virtual Speakers - MANUAL
Virtual Height - OFF
Virtual Wide - OFF
Virtual SB - OFF
Other features only listed via the remote:
Fixed PCM - OFF
DRC - OFF
Input ATT - OFF
C. Spread - OFF
When running MCACC, selection of the time window is critical to the resultant sound. Review the reverb charts and select a time where the lowest bass frequencies plateau. If you don't like what you hear, document your findings and try a new setting up or down. This is what you paid for. No other unit has this capability nor flexibility, but it requires some work on the owner's part.
I stress this again, getting the DSP time window wrong will result in crap. Off to one side yields a bright, harsh sound. The other will yield a sucked out experience devoid of any reverberant field, at no fault of the speakers or amplifiers.
When watching movies, I'm in the "Surround" listening mode...the unit will automatically detect the bitstream and display it.
For 2-ch I'm either in "Stereo" or "Neo X: Music" listening mode.
I steer clear of the AUTO Surround, ALC (Auto Level Correction), and Optimum Surround listening modes as I found they simply crush the sound field. I also do not employ the Direct and Pure Direct listening modes except for when running diagnostics, as they defeat the efforts of the DSP.
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3 hours ago, ka7niq said:
... it has the full band phase control, and several of the digital gizmo's of the newer D3 amps, like Standing Waves, oversampling, etc, etc.
Are any of these features valuable to you?
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Some of y'all are really showing your Heritage noobiness....and frankly, aesthetic snobbery.
These cabs are the original La Scala design.....not meant for the home, but truly designed as a theater work horse. No cosmetic treatment, and straight to the point functionality.
Performance wise, these cabinets are arguably superior to the product that eventually found its way into people's homes.
The top is fully open to avoid creating a cavity, the likes of which they subsequently "fixed" on the La Scala II. The woofer chamber is assembled horizontally for maximum mouth rigidity. The sides braced full length in this way, the bottom constrained by the floor, and the upper side secured by the K400 horn extension/baffle. Not cosmetic, but a very effective design.
Heavy duty full-ply Birch, not veneered Fir. Paint? Satin black, like everything else in show business. When the lights dim, the cabinets disappear into the shadows.
The crossovers are bullet-proof PIO.
Awesome historical find. True vintage. I would totally buy these so long as they weren't rotted or moldy on the inside.
I agree with HDR...hang them the museum ceiling upside down, drive them with a small SET amp, and a touch of EQ thrown in around 40-50Hz for an amazing background music experience. In fact, I know just who to contact to find the perfect tube amp to drive these pair.
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On 11/29/2017 at 10:35 PM, ka7niq said:
Of course, I am listening flat, no EQ, tone controls, or room correction.
What model Elite are you using?
I wouldn't recommend running any of the D3 product as such. To do so defeats several of it's unique advantages.
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Don't expect audio nirvana straight out of the box with the Pioneer.
They ship with every bell and whistle feature turned on, which you'll promptly have to spend some time carefully rooting around in the menu tree to turn off. Not to mention sifting through the dearth of sound field/DSP modes simply to find basic "stereo".
The menu will take some getting used to as the Panasonic XR is simply brilliant in comparison. Once you get it set up though, you'll be good to go. Eventually you figure where you need to visit most frequently....just not as intuitively as with the Panasonic. Naturally, the Pioneer can do significantly more.
You'll need to run MCACC to achieve even partial stride. Once you've spent some time with the DSP, and it is dialed-in however, it's seriously game on!
Wait until you get a load of Dolby ATMOS/Digital on your movies, and I wasn't kidding what I said earlier about the D3 amps.
The TRW is without compare in the 30 Hz and below range. Above that, as Carl mentioned, there are complementary options. It is an install item, so you must have a house at your disposal to equip with the beast.
Pilgrimage News?
in Klipsch Pilgrimage 2018
Posted
+1 Will miss ya Thad.