HornEd

And the Klipschorn is the only one to survive since 1948... maybe there is something to it! As you may know, the LaScala was designed by PWK as a center for his Klipschorns. When he brought it home, his wife Belle found it as less than acceptable for her home. PWK revamped the LaScala design for more female appeal... named his new design the "Belle Klipsch"... and suddenly he was cranking out classical tunes in his version of Bell Labs three-channel stereo. As someone who has six Klipschorns and four Belles, let me say that a Belle in the middle is better than a Bose in the Nose... back achoo! -HornEd

Psst, clu, rumor has it that m00n is a lunar unicyclist! -HornEd

Hmm, fini, and just how much did you offer to pay her to pick you? -HornEd

Thanks for shingling in with a solar wind, Griff. With lots of mountain acres, a better solar solution (i.e., cost-effective and minimally obtrusive) is a part of my ecological concerns. I am building a low emission hybrid rubber-tired "train" and narrow- gauge road system to provide "low-mass" transportation in the pristine expansion contemplated for my resort. -HornEd PS: While the bulk of our energy here in the Santa Cruz Mountains can be traced to fossil fuels, we mountain folk tend to be of hardy, frugal and ecologically sound stock. So far, renewable sources of energy have made us feel good... but not provided the cost-effective alternative they were cracked up to be.

Hmm, while our dear clu may be never wrong... she doth right properly, from time-to-time, stir up "hit-&-miss-conceptions" in us lesser sorts. And if she deems an apology is needed for her tender part... I shudder what is needed for some of our calloused parts. Taming flaming is somewhere where "parts is parts" departs... and introspection meets temperance. Mea culpa... mea culpa... mea culpa... cha!cha!cha! A tricky tune (toon?) for many male egos to tap dance around. Yep, it would be a lot easier if we would all send cluless a piece of fine chocolate. Do you still have that refrigerated P.O. Box, clu? -HornEd PS: Where would we all be if we didn't have a clu?

I believe there is a sound reason that PWK didn't finish off the backs of the original Klipschorn with a 1" board and it probably had to do with creating external (rather than internal) bracing to stiffen the enclosure. The 48" wall space issue, as I recall, is traceable to PWK's calculations. Tony Reed could probably fill us in better on that one... cutting off a foot of your prized (audio) extension is not my idea of a good time. Remember, the wall represents a calculated extension of the folded horn... and, as such, is an integral dynamic of the Klipschorn experience. Perhaps some aesthetic treatment of the false wall can blend or contrast with the decor in a positive WAF way? Over the years, many posts have dealt with building false corners... and one of the primary advantages IMHO is the ability to stiffen the false corner better than the average corner wall is built in a house using conventional building techniques. I think my hero Q-man has spoken to that issue on more than one occasion. Additionally, the recent thread about the little blocks that were built into the Khorn throats for a couple of years illustrates how a little interior deformation affects a sizeable amount of audio characteristics. PWK used false walls in his own home... and while part of that may have been a WAF issue... there is no doubt in my mind that structural integrity of a building's corner would also play a part in PWK's mind. In my own experience, the more structurally sound the corner... the better sound that came out of the Khorn! =HornEd

While this thread seems to be about great speakers for home use, Backburner (and others) bring out the pro-sound aspects of live performances. In my home, motorhome, free standing theater, and restaurant I have solid (if somewhat upscale) Klipsch speakers. But for indoor dances or concerts on the lawn, the sound gear is strictly pro... and that's how it should be. The acoustic concerns of feeding enough watts to motors that have to move massive amounts of air to entertain two thousand ears (1,000 people) on basking in the sun on the main lawn is a lot different than being sonically cradled between six Klipschorns in a specially tuned room... or even six KLF-30's and a dual SVS Ultra tower in a free standing yurt with no significant internal reflections (standing wave free deep diving sub sound). Just casting an ear to the different sound environments in my day-to-day living here in my mountain retreat makes me realize how different situations truly do call for different speaker solutions. Like those who are hung up on "Mpans", pro gear fills a special niche that emphasizes aspects of music rather than the whole spectrum in the crisp, clear, spectacular Klipschorn way... providing the Khorns are in a good acoustic space and driven by a squeaky clean source. But of all the loudspeakers I have ever owned... the one that stuck out in my mind as a 15 year old... and the one that sticks in my mind now that I am cashing Social Security checks... is the string of Klipschorns I have left behind in one relationship or another... in one country or another. I guess it's kind of like stuffing my ear with audio soul food... there is nothing that sooths the savage beast within like a proper Klipschorn environment. It was true when I only had one in a monaural system... it was true in stereo... and true in three channel stereo (a la PWK)... and now it is true in 6.0 multi-channel music (I have yet to build the subterranean subwoofer for the 6.1 Khorn environment). Yep, a comforting earful of Klipschorn ASF (Audio Soul Food) is what keeps me in Klipschorns. Sure, I can and have spent megabucks for speakers that impressed those with whom I was doing business... but, for my own comfort, my ears crave Klipschorns! It's great to be part of a Forum where I can let my Klipsch bias hang out. -HornEd PS: There is also some "in-your-face" quality about the KLF-30's that make a Home Theater really rock! Indeed, there are times when its "different strokes for the same folks"... so it's easy to see why flames appear when personal "bests" are compared. Chill out and enjoy what you can when you can... and keep upgrading... it's a way of life and the quality thereof!

Right-on dantfmly! The beauty of big screen reverse projection TV's is that the electronics that can be affected are in the bottom center of the unit and generally not affected... unless the speakers extend beyond the front of the screen... at least that's been my experience with Mitsubishi. Part of the reason that I use "horizontalized" towers (identical to the left and right mains) is to have the center channel spread across the top of the TV and not too high... it's a combo of aesthetic and audio concerns. Such a configuration allows plenty of visual space to appreciate the quality and depth of the painting. As a Klipsch devotee, I commend your ear... as an artist, I commend your eye... and as a business person, I commend your pocketbook. Hmmm, with talent like that, I trust one day you will blend your ear, eye, and economic capacity to an even more joyous conclusion shared by all in your family. Now, about the image on the screen, you've got the body of a champion foosball player! -HornEd

Why, m00n, do you have something against Klipsch Loudspeakers, all the music you listen to, and screen goo too? A hundred years ago your programming skills might have gotten you a brick layer's job... providing you would promise not to fall off the ladder! It would be a Dark Form with no m00n at all... -HornEd

Daddy Dee, what a wonderful thing to do... now if you can just get everyone aboard a jet helicopter and land where Tony Reed can show you his personal Klipsch Museum the day would pull me away from my scheduled Honeymoon Tahiti. Damn, just when I was luxuriating over the WAF agreement to the new Six Khorn Theater with Belle Front Effects... now you have to raise the bar to see if she will go so far as a Little Rock Honeymoon with all the Hubcap Burgers she can fit in her svelte bod. So, if I don't make it you'll know that I've hit the WAF WALL... and was sentenced to balmy skies and ocean sailing... and thoughts of being there. My best to all... especially Tony Reed. =HornEd

Larry, I echo Q-man's words, your elegantly depicted saga in words and photos have opened my eyes and the re-thinking probably saved my ears from disappointment of timbre-matching six Khorns of various vintages. Once again, the shades and nuances within a fully horn-loaded enclosure are given the respect and concern they so richly deserve... a place where the much used term "awesome" truly fits. Your workman-like approach was not marred by bringing in a pro to "whack, smack pry & tease" out the offending blocks. May you enjoy your new found "ear-fortune" for 20 more years... and then some! Your story and perseverance are indeed amazing... as is the support that you received from Klipsch... particularly Ernie (who signed my copy of PWK's biography... in addition to Miss Valerie, the authors). HornEd

Bill, Just as the Left & Right Mains are the key to Stereo CD enjoyment, the Front Center, is the key to DVD enjoyment since that is where over 75% of the sound is directed. For music, Paul W. Klipsch had Khorns in false corners and a Belle in the middle using the three-channel stereo effect developed by Bell Labs. Bringing the mighty Khorns to play in the DVD world requires something that can hold the spotlight with the Khorns in a support role. That is not an easy task and is why my hero, Q-man, and I have gone to Khorn centers and surrounds. The smaller Heritage speakers will fit your dimension profile better but are not likely to have enough raw cubic interior volume to timbre-match your corners as closely as you may like. You might try a Chorus turned on its side as a ready-made fill in that would meet your dimensional requirements. Building a custom enclosure to do justice to filling in the center for SACD and then taking on the star role for DVDs is not an easy task particularly since you have the most seasoned classic of any continually produced speaker in the history of the world gracing your corners. While I have used two 12 woofers tight on a stack of mid-range and tweeter horns on my Legends Theater, using a single woofer in a folded corner laid out horizontally to go atop an RPTV seems like an interesting challenge and one that your query prompted. That would theoretically provide the maximum cabinet volume since the woofer would be facing away from the front, thereby allowing for the mounting of vertical horn for the mid-range (tighter center image) and the horn tweeter to be mounted horizontally. The task would be easier using a 15 woofer like the larger Heritage speakers voiced to be centers for the Khorns but your dimensional constraints would require a 12 woofer at the max. Hmm, this is a configuration I would like to brainstorm with HDBRbuilder. Building a new fully horn-loaded enclosure for the center that will do justice to Klipschorn Mains is a monumental challenge that would ordinarily require more luck than an average mortal may be entitled to or a skill set that few Forum folk are likely to have. Never-the-less, it is a fascinating answer to making the most of Khorns in a Home Theater environment. HornEd PS: While dual woofers in a center are desirable to pump up the audio power, they should be mounted as close together as possible to provide better center imaging. I fact, some of the later horizontilizations in which I have assisted mount the woofers immediately adjacent and put the horn tweeter and midrange in the space created above and below the near touching diameters of the woofers.

Cluless, I can't believe you sprayed them green... or did you mean the cereal. Now, at least that should be one "none issue" for your Irish Stew this St. Paddy's Day. Just remember, all over Klipsch Forum Land, would be Irishers (and a few real ones) will no doubt be hoisting a brew in tribute to "clu"... for better or "less." Purple Beer... now there ought to be a story behind that! Cheers in what ever color makes you smile! -HornEd

Congrats Vinne! Another successful Khorn deal on the Forum... Thanks PWK for inventing them... and Uncle Fred for keeping up the heritage. -HornEd

Jordan, sent you an email a bit ago. These are very busy days for me and so I have not been able to answer by email all the requests for people wanting to upgrade their systems to horizontal centers and all monopole surrounds. So, if you have something, drop another email, pm me, or just reply to this post. I'll try to get back in the wee hours. -HornEd PS: Congrats again on those fine Khorns.

Cluless, as one equal opportunity Holiday Brew Hoister, your cups would be full of Green Harp and Guinness... and the corned beef & cabbage would be served until you could eat no more. But I thought you wore kilts and fed the cats candied-kippers? Have a happy! -HornEd

Hey Bill... This is a busy time for me so my answer will be, perhaps, too short. The closest "small" speaker to approach the Heritage sound is an Academy (which I used briefly as the 6th speaker in a 6.1 Heritage system). As I have stated in several other posts, after patenting the Klipschorns and then discovering Bell Labs three-channel stereo concept, the late Paul Klipsch devoted much of his time to solving many of the same kind of center channel issues as you are now facing. After the Khorn, ALL of the current "Heritage" line designed by PWK to be centers for a pair of his legendary corner horns. The best compromise is a LaScala or Belle (the latter was a WAF version of the LaScala and what PWK kept in his house until the day he died). The Klipsch Belle has also been my favorite center... until now that I am building a six Khorn rig. Several people have worked with splitting bass bins and putting the tweeter and mid-range horns above a screen. But, in your case, an RPTV does not allow a good place for a bass bin to be... at least from a cosmetic point of view. Do to the placement of the components, inverting a Cornwall (to keep the horn tweeter on a better level with your ears) on a support shelf above your RPTV can work... if the aesthetic factors are within your parameters. An inverted LaScala or Belle would work even better. Generally speaking, it is hard to replicate the big folded horn sound of your corner speakers with speakers that have far less cubic inches inside... particularly if the smaller speaker is not ported. Some of the smaller towers in the Heritage line have been converted to center channels by replacing the motor board that has been horizontalized. Got to go now. -HornEd

Whoa, friend m00n... I bring you no chastisement. I only meant to show you that you did indeed pour the oil of humility on cyber-waters troubled by personal animosities. A timely "m00n pie peace" to curb the frenzied appetites of barking puppies who should rather act their dog years in restrained silence. You have used your native wit and outrageous charm to sooth this savage beast... and, who knows, someday you may even reach Pope (expletive deleted) the Innocent... should such an irrational troll ever appear on this Forum. Keep up the good influence and be well my m00n friend. -HornEd

"Oooowww... Jest yew whaite 'enry Watkins, jest yew whaite!" sang the un(horn)tutored distaff troll to the Englisher who would reshape her tongue in the Forum's virtual trollpot. Naww... While I, too, have been frustrated by the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune... and fame hunters, in the main, most of us behave rather well most of the time. It gives this virtual community not only the common ground of extended Klipsch history and product offerings... but also the opportunity to know one another as people... and that is a Forum thing that raises this virtual environment above the crass and temporary aspects of a chat room. Generally, cooler heads among member peers have prevailed... and in nearly three years of participation I have even been one of those cooler heads. The Forum moderators have had far less to moderate than in other venues that allow "flame potential" subjects... or so it seems. They have given us the opportunity to be more free here than most manufacturers would have dared. This Forum is a place for mavericks and mavens to coexist... a place where newbies are welcome to learn and embrace the never-ending-upgrade-story. On balance, this Forum seems to have a better "Trolling for Trolls" coefficient than most. Consistant "Trollish Behavior" deserves the ultimate solution... banishment to the unsavory side of the cyber world. -HornEd

Ah, and alas, Henry... it seems the audio equivalent of cubic zirconium and ritualistic conehead minimalism will be hard to dispel as this old Celt bangs away at building bigger and better horn environments. While it stands to reason that somehow audio alchemy should produce gold (honest audio) from sand (silicon wafers make tough sacraments)... the Joy of 6.1 Fully Loaded Horns is part of my everyday reality... NOW! Just bringing the monopole "WORD" to a manufacturer manipulated bipolar audience seems to have branded me a heretic to some on this Forum... even though the "spirit" of my practice is rooted in the audio musings of its founder. Bringing half-century old technology to create vintage sound in a shaped acoustic environment is a joy closer at hand for far less money than most Klipsch fans realize. Sure, my hero Q-man and I may seem a bit over-the-top in our fully-horn loaded quests... but the joy of 6.1 (or more) monopoles in an adequate subwoofer environment may be closer at hand than St. Patrick's Judgment Day. -HornEd

And a top of the mornin' to ye, BBB, and all the suddenly Irish Klipsch folk hereabout! 'Tis indeed St. Paddy's day... and a BBB "Welch Rarebit" is more in keeping with remembering Maewin of Wales day of death, March 17, 461. A Welch Rarebit was originally called a Welsh Rabbit... actually a hand cut piece of wheat bread with a generous amount of cheddar cheese which was heated until bubbly on a salamander (a metal tool that holds the food that is thrust into a very hot broiler). It was called a rabbit in jest... for it was considered a substitute for meat when no meat was at hand. The corruption of the spelling to "Welch Rarebit" seems to have occurred when early colonists came to Massachusetts. It was in Boston that the first St. Patrick's Day celebration was held in 1737. Much of the folklore surrounding Patrick is as unsubstantiated as the "sudden Irish lineage" of the many that celebrate this day. As for the reputed tale of St. Patrick, he was born in Wales, England, a pagan named Maewin. At 16 a band of Irish marauders took him captive and sold him into slavery in Ireland... where he spent six years, reportedly became close to God, and finally escaped to Gaul (modern day France)... where he studied in a monetary and became a priest. He longed to be sent as a bishop to "free" (i.e., make Catholic) the land where he had been enslaved. He was passed over at first, but then got the chance to become the Second Bishop of Ireland. Although he lived nearly twice as long as an average man in those days, Bishop Patricks thirty years of monetary, church and school building was hampered by many imprisonments at the hand of the Druid Celtic majority. Each time he managed to escape only to emerge as the BBB Bunny of Forum Fame. Having a commercial Salamander in my restaurant... along with a goodly quantity of fresh baked wheat bread and cheddar cheese, I think I shall offer Welch Rarebit and a pint of Harp at lunch in honor of BBB and his Bunny St. Patrick. For supper, of course, it's Corn Beef & Cabbage... and more Harp & Guinness. Ah it's a great day for the Irish... and those who would be Irish this celebratory day. -HornO'Ed (Hmm, where's that green happy face with the full of cheer red nose when I need it?)

Okay, Tripod, will throw your name into this three-cornered chat... Yes, much to my chagrin you did drop my name into the odiferous armpit of evil ...but the m00n reflections offered no such specificity... so the list of posts were merely a way for the m00n to pick the craters of his mind... which are rumored to be mostly filled with rock (starlets) and (video game) role players. Of course, my fascination is to see a tripod monopole on a m00nbeam mcswine bass. -HornEd

Wow, that's beautiful Paul. Here in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California we have to endure 84.6ºF at 1:00 p.m. with a gentle breeze and clear blue skies... hmmm, maybe my next project should be a 6.1 meadow in a wooded glen. Actually, the weather has been far better than usual for this time of year. Our on site weather station is predicting rain... so I guess I'll crow before my feathers get wet. Enjoy the seasons! -HornEd PS: We also have no shortage of Red-breasted Robins or Red-headed Peckers either... it's like we went from mild winter to temperate spring to warm summer breezes in just a few weeks.

Oh, no, have you abandoned your Heritage to avoid cornering your Khorns!... I mean are you back to KSP'n around? -HornEd PS: Nice pick up the fini opportunity, DaddyDee, it shows what being Forum friends is all about! You can be sure fini would do it on this end!

Hey m00n... NO HARM, NO FOUL!!! Okay, maybe I misunderstood but here is my positive take on the m00n rising to the occasion on the FINALLY! GOT SURROUNDS thread First another m00n peace pie On 3/6/2004 4:15:58 PM m00n wrote: ---------------- On 3/6/2004 3:55:14 PM HornEd wrote: Looks like the Tide is still rolling in "BamaJamaCramaSound" =HornEd PS: I guess I won't earn a friendly m00n pie award on this one! ---------------- LOL... Sorry Keith, but that was kinda funny. Horn you can have one simply because you made me giggle. And another m00n peace pie On 3/6/2004 4:15:58 PM m00n wrote: ---------------- On 3/8/2004 11:37:39 PM T2K wrote: MO-Personal attacks and threats. You are an old fool ed. Bite me. Keith ---------------- MO? Keith? Whats that mean? I have to say... You two ol-farts (notice I didn't say old) are giving me the giggles... Keep this up in a few years and you two will be whipping out the canes and shaking them at each other. And another m00n peace pie On 3/10/2004 7:51:51 PM m00n wrote: ---------------- On 3/10/2004 7:46:19 PM HornEd wrote: You think your tired... the rest of us are laughing so hard we need a break. So, do the Forum a favor, don't respond! -HornEd ---------------- Truth be told, I personally am not laughing at either of you. I'm snickering at the amusing burn bombs you BOTH are lobbing back and forth. All this entertainment right here from the comfort of my PC and best of all, it's free And another m00n peace pie On 3/11/2004 3:33:03 PM m00n wrote: *WARNING* Possible Matrix spoiler. Adding this warning cause Wheelman has never seen 2 or 3. He just called me on it. Sorry Wheel. If it makes you feel better, I lied, this is not the ending. Hmmm.. I'm beginning to wonder if T2K = HornEd... HornEd = T2K... You know like in The Matrix where Agent Smith is acutually NEO's opposite. His negative... And another m00n peace pie On 3/11/2004 4:35:35 PM m00n wrote: ---------------- On 3/11/2004 4:25:31 PM fini wrote: My best energy is (seriously) headed in (each of) your way(s)!! ---------------- I agree with Fini, CMon you two... Kissy Kissy and make up. Or at least agree that you two just don't agree and call it good. You guys remind me of that movie "Grumpy Old Men". On the surface could not stand each other, yet on the inside were best friends all along. You see what I mean m00n many of those who I consider Forum friends, including you, found me coming up shorter than I should have in this interchange. I am appreciative of all the above posts and any others from any person that are in this good hearted spirit. While I can handle looking like a donkey by missing some audio or spelling foible looking like a PIA (Personal Innuendo ***) Matter Maven is not my idea of being a worthwhile Forum member! -HornEd