USparc

Just 2 components nothing more except my PC which is fiber/S-video linked to the pioneer.

Well, spare the trouble and don't use the feet. Just screw the spikes or the rubber pads directly in the speaker. I have put my on a circular granite block using the rubber pads.

You don't have to make a new box for the RF-7. Add some decent bracing like I did with my RF-3's Take a look add "Unleash the power of the RF-3's"

Ok, here it is. The result is very good but not as it was present with the RF-3's. But indeed the RC-3 is smaller, so the panel vibration is originally less.

Yes indeed. I couldn't resist doing also the RC3 as I noticed also some boxy sound when knocking on the cabinet of the RC3. It wasnt totally death either. The picture in this post shows the original. Next post will come with the RC3 reloaded.

Voila, here it is the RF3 reloaded.(drivers removed to see ...) The cabinet is almost totally death. I can hear the difference when knocking on the side panels. You also will notice that the horn has his own cabinet. The speakers weighs 5kg more to get just over 30kg (30.7 actually) So what is the result sound related. My expectation where more than fulfilled. The sound doesn't come from the cabinets anymore. The sound is really placed in the room which it makes very natural and more live like (even more then before ) But the most impressive is the lower part of the frequencies. I was really nailed to the ground with the impact of the bass they can generate. The cabinet must absorb some (a lot ) of lower frequencies. With the more than adequate bracing this is al gone. The drivers are very happy with there new housing and I can hear it to. This is the best tweak you can do for these speakers. Moreover: I recently auditioned the RF-7 and would expect some more braced cabinets with those large drivers. Sadly I must say that my RF-3 outperform the RF-7 no matter what. The sound just sticks on the RF-7 and indeed plenty bass is very boomy and doesnt come near to the impact my RF-3 can generate now. I took a look inside the RF-7 and was very disappointed with the little bracing they had. I could hear it also when knocking on the side panels. However I would like to know how RF-7 would sound with a good bracing structure. (Maybe someone to do the tweak???) So now you have an idea how (as I discovered also) important the cabinet is. I always thought it is important but it is very very very important!!!!

It has been some time ago when I last posted, but now I have to post again. My latest project to take the next step with my RF-3's ended successfully. First I did the rewiring as you may remember. The flimsy wires where replaced with cat5 FTP cables. This improved things a little. But now it was time for a more agressive attack of the cabinet itself!! The picture in this post (rest will follow) shows the original RF-3 cabinet with just one brace accross the side pannels. This is definitly not enough!! (Not to speak of the dampening material) So I designed a kind of matrix (reloaded) structure. In the following post I will attach the RF3reloaded picture. So I'll be back ... in the next post

JO4, Definitly NOT appreciated bashing another member. m00n, Did you tried the THX reference level. Is it to loud or do you like it louder??

Yep, larger room. My room is about 26 x 15 and I still find my RF-3's huge. RF-7's in a 12x11 is ... ???? ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

For me also the sound. Like Horned said: the picture still stays an illusion. It can not be real because it is 2 dimentional. The sound is 3 dimentional and can give a real impression!! ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

quote: Originally posted by HornEd: WDST speakers are a cost-effective, space-saving, tone & timbre compromising method of replacing multiple standalone speakers with one, ultra-compact, unit with multiple speakers aimed in three directions. The WDST approach is similar in attacking the ambient sound vs. localized sound challenge... that probably should be more properly "fixed" by enlightened source mixing techniques and smarter pre-amps. But, until that day, WDST and tripoles have gone a long way to solve a lot of people's problems. That is right on HornEd. Also cinema speakers are monopole in nature to create the surround array. They use more (monopole) speakers because of the room size. Ok, the distance to the audience is larger, but this is not solved by WDST's as it is with a true dipole(not all the way). There should always be a certain distance to the speakers and in the end we all look for the sweet spot (even when we go to the cinema where the sweet spot is covered by a larger area). Now leaves the question when WDST speakers should be used? Definitly in larger rooms and to avoid the cost of multiple speakers(also connections, amps,...), but like Horned said: "tone & timbre compromising method." For smaller rooms dipoles can help.(quote) <<Because of the Precedence Effect, in a smaller room, anyone sitting closer to one monopole surround speaker than another would only hear the closest speaker. A dipole speaker directs sound to the front and back of the room and creates a null (no sound) toward the listener. The viewer hears the surround effects as they're reflected from room surfaces and can't place the speaker's location. Besides creating a naturally(leave out "naturally")diffuse soundfield, the dipole speaker should have the advantage of not calling attention to itself and thus not drawing the viewer's attention away from the action onscreen.>> What about the localisation of the effect(lost in space). That room has to be really small For those it's time that the headphones are also updated to a full 5.1 channel . Wouldn't that be cool.

quote: Originally posted by talktoKeith: "My bad experiences were with the RS-3's. I actually never owned and used them in my place." Your words USparc,not mine. Perhaps it would be wise to refrain from commenting on something you have little, or no, experience with. Just a thought. Keith Ok, but that doesn't mean that I didn't do any comparison between the two!!! I did spent quite some time at audio-stores and people with an HT to hear the diffs (and there are ). I also go to audio-meetings from time to time and pick up some good thougths from well respected audiophiles here!! So I do have some (shared) experiences!!!

Yep, Boa said it all. Just one thing: Don't try to overrun the sub. If there is no low in 2channel music, don't create it. Otherwise it will sound boomy. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

I know someone who had similar problems. He had also the Rotel RMB 1095. Even when everything was unplugged , except the speakers the humm was still present (As in your case when listening in 2 channel the rears are disconnected(in RSP 1066) except the Rotel RMB-1095). He went back to the dealer with it. They connect the RMB 1095 and also humm but it was a lot less. His dealer had another RMB 1095 with totaly no humm. According to the dealer it was "a kind of a revised one". He tried it at home ... Still humm but a lot less. I think some RMB 1095 are sensitive to the quality of the mains supply. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

quote: Originally posted by boa12: us, what levels are u at when u play a dvd or cd on that player w/ volume at 0. way over 75 or 85db i bet. Once I measured it with the pod race (phantom menace) Peaks of 118dB (without the KSW-12). I have to measure it all again with the sub (soon). The dialogues in the movies are around 75 dB. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

quote: Originally posted by talktoKeith: USparc, I've got some beachfront property in Florida for sale cheap. Do you believe that too? Keith What are you talking about??? I don't believe anything unless I can see (and hear ) it for myself!!!!

Ok, I will start. LOL Marantz SR9200 ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

Hey moon, And how do you like the THX reference level ???

quote: Originally posted by KAiN64: Hey! I just found out that there is a Marantz dealer here and Dubai and he also has the Marantz SR9200! Yay! BTW, he is asking $2,888. Is this a good price for the Marantz SR9200? Should I get this over the Denon AVR-4802? $2888 is not bad, but... . get this over the Denon AVR-4802? I don't know, but I know already a few guys who got the marantz even over the AVR-5903(AVC-A1SR)!!!! ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

Hey guys, My bad experiences were with the RS-3's. I actually never owned and used them in my place. My dealer has more then 5 dedicated HT systems to audition. One system is with RS-3's as rears another is with RB-5's as rears. Back then the dealer showed me the differences I told you all. It was so much better with the RB-5's as rears. Maybe it was the placement of the speakers, but RS-3's makes the sound so unnatural. That was for movies. The dealer convinced me rather very quick that they where useless for 5 channel music. So the end result was 4 RF-3's and a RC-3 (it does its job very good with the RF-3's). crash827, I'm really happy for you if you heard it all just like you described it. You have probably found a good place for them and they match your system (including the place) very well (not to much reflections). (But still, can you do the test also with an extra pair of your mains??) So probably the placement is an important factor for these speakers. So lets get back to the subject of this post.(not for me, I would never buy WDST speakers (or non monopoles) ). ... (going to enjoy my HT system now) later

Aha, I like the response of Dennis Sands. I wouldn't upgrade either from my basic 5.1 system to any x.1 system in the room where it is now. He has indeed a point on placing issues even with 5.1 systems in a common "home room". Adding more speakers in such a room wouldn't indeed add that much "audio benefit (whatsoever)" in relation to the more price. However this doesn't mean that WDST (or other sprayers) speakers should be used. They would spray the sound all over the place with multipe reflection which leads to an overpowered uncontroled overwhelming sound with no localization at all. Some will like this, ... I and others don't. And there is indeed the timber matching, very important. Crash, did you here the bullet pas you on the left or was it become suddenly an other bullet (lost in space).(Was hoping for some reaction) Ok, as long as we enjoy our systems either in its own way. Peace. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

Yes, KAiN64. The marantz SR-9200 does have some points that are equal to the denon like the transfo, but there are definitly more. Like this important one: The SR9200 incorporates the most advanced Digital Signal Processing circuitry, along with a Crystal 192 kHz/24 bit D/A converter in each of the seven channels.When reproducing 2 channel stereo, these DACs are automatically switched in dual differential mode, to perform the highest quality D/A conversion. That is typicaly from the Denon AVC-A1SE!! ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

mrsp : +/- $3200 but it can go as low as $2345, maybe lower. (They have also the SR-8200 comming out soon) About the power ratings. Be carefull here. Denon AVC-A11SR : 7 x 180 Watt (6 Ohm, 1 kHz, 0.7 % THD) Marantz SR-9200 : 7 x 140 Watts (8 Ohm, < 0.05% THD, 20 Hz - 20 kHz. You see the diffs here!! Denon is measured at 1kHz, 6Ohms and 0.7 thd!! while the marantz at 0.05 thd!!!! 8 Ohms and on a full frequency range!!!! If Denon would have measured the power under the same conditions as marantz did, denon should be happy if it would still reach the 100 Watts. Denon AVC-A1SR : 220 Watt (6 Ohm, 1 kHz, 0.7 % THD). That would come close to the marantz, but still. Personaly I would not go on these figures. They give some info at some point but that is it. Some test magazines give more usefull information and even give a 3-d graph with x-axis the power, y-axis the phase shift and z-axis the impedance. Yep the power depends on many things!! The marantz will beat the denon no doubt in that!!. The guy who bought showed me the graphs of the denon and the marantz. The marantz held his power even with phase shift and an impedance of 3Ohms!! The denon(AVC-A1SE) on the other hand would choke himself and bring out a merely 50 watts! But it all depends on the load (speakers) you use. With klipsch, no problem at all. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

HornEd, I really enjoy reading your posts here!! keep on going ... crash827, Do you really believe that WDST-speakers (or whatever non monopole speaker) are "direct speakers which cover multiple zones"?? If you claim that WDST-speakers do not use reflection (of the walls) how the hell can the sound reach your ears at the sweet spot?? Keith made a nice resemblance with the garden hose:"Note the water is sprayed, or 'dispersed' over roughly a 180 degree area. Note the better coverage you get with the multiple drivers." If you aim that water spray directly at me (in the garden) how much water is going to hit me without any reflection!! You see. Infact the reflections causes a time delay what can be heard as ambient sound. Now, monopole speakers creates the ambient sound by working together just like 2 channel audio can do. The time delays and phase shifts are all in the soundtrack. For off-axis listeners a center channel is added. No more then 6 speakers are needed to create ambient sound anywhere you want it to be. (Even if you would always sit in the middle 4 speakers would be enough)All is in the soundtrack!! In that way it is controled, not like it would be with sound "sprayers" which infact can work against each other. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12

Yep, nice setup. Wow, Those KLF-20's are really close to the sweet spot!! Can you keep them down enough in respect to the mains?? ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12