Ski Bum

It's pretty simple. You just need to provide a pair of line level signals from your pre-amp to your amps. Y-splitters on your pre-outs would work, if the amps you are using have their own gain controls for level matching, or lacking that, both have the same inherent gain. pre-amp outs --> y-splitter, one leg feeding tube amps, the other feeding corresponding channel on ss amps --> connect amps to corresponding inputs on speakers. Some brands have multiple pre-outs, e.g. NAD's pre-amps and more expensive integrateds have two sets of pre-outs, one of which has a gain control, a feature specifically provided for passive bi-amping. Using gear with such a feature, simply feed one amp from one set of pre-outs, and the other amp from the other set, making sure to use the trimmable outs with the amp with the highest inherent gain. This is what I have done, using the fixed outs to feed the tubes (they don't reach full output until they see a 2V input), and the variable outs feeding the ss amp (which comes to rated power at a mere 0.8V input), with that pre-out dialed back enough so that levels match. I've done this using a C375 integrated using the built in amp for the lows, and a C162 pre with other amps. I had my crossovers re-worked for bi-amping when I replaced the caps, which was necessary for the old fortes. After all that futzing around, I find I still prefer driving my Klipsch with the tube amps full range. Go figure.

Back to tube vendors...I found the same tubes available from online vendors, often for considerably less, from the local guitar amp repair shop. They had and extensive selection and supply of both current production and NOS tubes. The owner was a crotchety old **** who thinks tube amps for home audio is beyond stupid. At least he didn't feel compelled to tack on the audiophile surcharge.

I like the Marantz mini component Bill suggested, at least for a dorm situation. Here is another small, all-in-one solution: http://www.teac.com/consumer_electronics/reference_series/cr-h500nt/

I'm part of the choir you're preaching to (except for the cables part [:|]). For the fortes I have about ~6 watts of SET juice on tap, and even that can get to ear-shattering levels. And I happen to own a C372 which I've also tried on the Klipsch, and frankly prefer the SETs by a wide margin. The NAD is used primarily to drive some inefficient M&K studio monitors (4 ohm, something like 85db/w/m), a far better use for that amp. The Parasound amps that Joop is considering are biased for class A output for the first several watts. They DO sound good at low levels. Kinda pricey for this ski bum, but they are indeed excellent amplifiers. Joop wouldn't be making a mistake by getting one. I would agree that he likely would never need all the power of even that, and more power, i.e. bridged amps, is just overkill. Isn't there some saying among those stricken with the audio gear addiction along the lines of "I spent all thay money to learn I didn't need to spend all that money to get great sound." Multiple bridged C275's or A23's would be an expensive lesson indeed.

That's not exactly true. Some amps are easy on tubes, where driver tubes can last for years, even decades. Others push them to their limits and use them up faster. It all depends on the particular amp. Something tells me that the biggest disadvantage from the perspective of the NAD salesman is that he has no chance for a commission.

Not really. Amps like the A21, A23, and even the NAD have such high damping factors that they all would have an iron grip. Maybe, but I suspect it's more due to the Parasound being the more powerful amp, able to better sustain power during demanding bass heavy passages than the NAD's 'powerdrive' trickery can muster. Keep in mind that the damping factor would have to be much, much lower than either of these to make a difference, and that in such a case, the amp with the lower damping factor would likely sound more boomy and bassy than the one with a high damping factor.

Assuming the amp has the ability to generate that current and dissipate the associated heat, then yes, you are correct. Keep in mind that speaker impedance is not constant, so that's just a guestimate. This will put more stress on the amp, a strong argument for simply choosing a more powerful amp to begin with. You keep using terms like 'warm' and 'rich', which makes me think 'tubes'. Not necessarily trying to steer you that way, the A23 is an outstanding amplifier after all.

1) Entirely sufficient (unless your room is HUGE) 2) Even more sufficient, enough for a huge room. Do you really need that much power? Ok, too much is just enough when it comes to ss power, but on the other hand, a single A21 should reach ear blistering volumes before running out of steam. 3) Doesn't make sense; you're giving the highs way more power than needed. Due to the high crossover of the RF-7's, the amp driving the bottom inputs is doing all the work, and the money spent on the amp for the highs is an extravagance. I'm cheap, and given the marginal, perhaps imperceptible benefits of passive bi-amping, this one just seems like a stupid idea. If you need more output, get a more powerful amp, or follow suggestion number two.

Nope. Some of the sweetest electronics to be found belong to members of this forum, e.g. all the Wrights, Moondogs, NOSvalves VRD's, all the crazy fully active Jubilees and other frankenstien systems, etc. There are some very serious systems on here. Some of them are probably much more cost effective than you would imagine, too. Of course we also use speakers actually capable of conveying the dynamic range of a recording, and sensitive enough to be used with a ton more amps than your standard issue, low sensitivity, direct radiator speaker. It adds to the fun factor. Fatiguing? Well, I listen to my forte's for hours a day and never get tired of the sound. Quite the opposite, in fact; I feel like I can't get enough music, I just want to keep listening. One thing I've noticed is that other forums are full of folks beginning or in the middle of the whole audio-upgrade merry-go-round. Here, most seem to have been there, done that, and discovered that Klipsch are hard to beat. Folks here haven't lost sight of the music, and Klipsch (particularly Heritage) really connects you to it in a way that few speakers can.

Also check Blue Jeans Cable and Monoprice. Good cables, dressed up however you like them, at reasonable prices (no markup for unsubstantiated magical qualities).

The 10's are sold out and discontinued. They still have the DTS-12's, the sealed version, for $599 on clearance. As with the Emos I suggested, it will take more than one to hang with the 'Scalas. I can't vouch for them personally, but it's the sort of thing I would seriously consider if I were in your shoes. http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12nsd.cfm

Ooo, I like Billy joe's suggestion, the Tuba would rule. Nothing like a horn loaded sub to match your 'Scalas. As a budget suggestion, a pair (or three) of these would probably do you nicely: http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub12.shtm $499 each, shipped. Haven't heard them myself, but they are sealed (my personal preference), basic subs, and Emo has a rep for excellent value. I'm not sure you could do this well with diy kits for the price. Individually, one wouldn't keep up with the 'Scalas, but a trio of them probably would.

That gloss black will show every speck of dust. It will be a constant headache. You better sell them (to me, of course[]).

KG4's are OK. They were my first exposure, thanks to a roomate in college who had a pair. But the three-way Heritage are superior, and hold their value better should you re-sell them. If you buy unheard, Heritage is the safer gamble. I bought some forte II on eBay for $450. They arrived in condition quite a bit worse than the description, and the seller reduced the price to $365. Still kind of high for them, but the sound had hooked me, so they stayed. I recently sold them for $325, which is more in line with their value given the cosmetic work they needed. The buyer (forum member here) seemed happy. So I paid $40 for two years of forte II sound, not unacceptable at all. I found a mint pair of forte II on local craigslist listed for $500. The seller had listed them several times at that price with no takers, over the course of 6 months or so. They are literally showroom new looking. After very brief haggling, I happily paid $425, an excellent price for a truly minty pair. So my advice is, be patient, and keep an eye on your local or regional Craigslist so you can inspect/listen before you buy, and avoid shipping costs. My second choice to a local sale would be to buy from a forum member, who are more knowledgable and appreciative of Klipsch product, and presumably more trustworthy than some anonymous eBayer simply looking to make a buck. Those polk guys are just upset by how puny and gutless their speakers sound compared to our Klipsch.[] Be patient, and good luck in your search. It will be worth it!

I think I saw that too...it was on the order of seconds for tweets and mids, to a few minutes for woofers. Way less time for 'break in' than some would lead you to believe.

Klipsch customer service told me that the K-61 (stock) and K-53-Ti do not have matching specs, and is not simply a swappable part. Did you have Bob customize your crossover networks for the K-53 driver?

This little calculator comes pretty darn close to the actual spl measurements in my room/system. You can plug in your room size, speaker sensitivity, peak spl, and distance to speakers, and solve back for required amp power. Try it out: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html I'm guessing it would do rock pretty darn well, but may have trouble with the Mahler and other bombastic, demanding material.

forte II, Decware SE84C+. Champaigne sound on a beer budget.

I don't use cans, nor have I used them with a tube amp, so take this for what it's worth (as a random wild-eyed guess). But could you have an impedance mis-match between that particular amp and your headphones? I do use tube amps, and Klipsch speakers, so that it sounds like my whole room is wearing a giant pair of headphones; all the detail and enveloping scale, without the tether.

It's weird, isn't it? SS always leaves me with the impression that I'm listening to a recording being reproduced, regardless of how well the equipment doing it's job (objectively speaking, SS does a great job). Tube amps, on the other hand, make me feel like I'm listening to MUSIC. Tubes + Klipsch = [Y][] 36 years you've denied yourself this simple pleasure? Well, it's about time, and welcome back!

1) How would you identify your allowable budget versus time? Well, that depends on finances, which are up and down. I'm hyper-frugal, so I would spend considerable time educating myself on what's out there, what would fit my taste, and represents true value. Unfortunately, the whole audio industry is plagued with lack of standards and unprovable marketing nonsense. It's almost as bad as woo-medicine, but without the deleterious effect on public health. A bit of research prior to purchase can save a ton of money. 2) Would you buy all used, all new, or a mix (including source material, audio input devices, amplifiers/processors, speakers including subs if any, cables, room treatment devices, architectural updates)? What would you buy used and what new? See above...frugality means let others pay full retail; the true outstanding deals are in used gear, from Klipsch Heritage, to exotic amps or whatever else. I would buy new CD/DVD/Blue-ray player, as those have moving parts, as well as impending obsolescence due to changing formats, flexible connectivity (wifi), etc. 3) What would you be trying to achieve - i.e., as close to a realistic performance as you could afford, or "something that sounds good to play stuff that you used to listen to when you were young". Trying to exactly replicate what was heard in the studio/venue is impossible, so I am not a stickler for 'accuracy' or some dogmatic engineering definition of fidelity to source. I like low distortion, highly resolved detail, and uncompressed dynamics, as live music sounds. But above all, I like good imaging, meaning speakers do the disappearing act well, leaving the music to be presented in an unfettered way. Think 'musicians in the room' effect. Although I have several different systems following quite divergent approaches, they all manage to get out of the way of the music to a great degree. Most time/effort of system setup should concern speakers and your listening room. 4) How much would you be willing to pay for visual attractiveness instead of performance (% cost of the component)? This includes tubes and non-audio devices. A bit more. With WAF and my own compulsiveness, visual aesthetics go a long way. But I wouldn't buy a beautiful speaker unless it sounded beautiful as well. I just picked up some GORGEOUS oiled oak forte II's in flawless condition, at a very good price, if thats any indication. 5) How much would you buy-and-sell in order to achieve your ideal system goal(s)? Would you try to minimize this? Would you buy without first hearing the equipment? What components would that be? Well, been doing the audio drug since I was a teenager. More buying than selling over the years, for which extended family is quite grateful as they get the hand-me-downs. As mentioned, I'm frugal, so it hasn't been too out of control. I wouldn't buy speakers without hearing them first, ditto for tube amps, but I would consider buying sources or conventional SS amps without hearing them. 6) How would you go about listening to the equipment before buying? My most recent purchase were the pair of minty fortes; bought local on Craigslist, auditioned before purchase at sellers home. Next most recent purchase (several years ago) was a SET amp; auditioned at the manufacturer at their annual three day party where all their amps and speakers are available to play with (Decware does this every fall). Also, RMAF is a good place to hear product not otherwise accessible. I think the most important thing to listen to prior to purchase are speakers, preferably in your own home. And if you have a taste for distortion prone amps like SETs, they should be auditioned because unlike most SS, they all have their own idiosyncratic sonic personalities.

Here's a thorough article on the subject: http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/impedance-selector-switch-1

Do you notice the typical out-of-phase diffused sound in any frequency band? Presumably the mids/highs rely on the passive crossover, which means it must have been modded to accomodate bi-ampimg, so double check that none of the individual drivers, particularly the mids, are wired out of phase.

Damned if I can figure it out. I can post an image from the net, but not from my own computer. WTF?!?!

5U4GB's have slightly different specs than 5U4G's (marginally higher B+ I think, but don't quote me), so double check that they will work with your gear. The 5U4GB's were made for televisions, and are probably the most ubiquitous of the NOS tubes as a result, so they're inexpensive. I've been using NOS RCA 5U4GB's in a couple of my Decware amps for some time and have absolutely no complaints.