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Ski Bum

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  1. Hola Gary- I would guess that for that sized room, that 45 watt Quad amp would suffice quite nicely. My forte ii's are in a similarly sized room. Currently, I'm using a 50w/ch receiver (Yamaha rx-396), and my ears cry uncle before the amp runs out of steam. There actually is something to the class A approach, which, to my ears at least, seems to be imaging prowess and the entrancing, almost psychedelic way they engage you, or rather how they let the music engage you. Emotional involvement with the music is almost unavoidable with class A amps. They measure anywhere from slightly worse to horrible compared to AB amps, but they sound more pure and clear (go figure). The problem is, with that approach you're stuck with either too low power for practical purposes (single ended tube designs), or outrageous cost (think Pass Labs or Musical Fidelity products here, mucho dinero). You owe it to yourself to listen to such an amplifier, if you get a chance. You just may like it. I know I do. I actually have a couple class A tube amps (Decware se84's), and while they do sublime things when paired to my forte's they ultimately don't have the drive to get loud and rowdy, hence the Yamaha, which is entirely sufficient for my needs. Frankly, I find the Yamaha to sound just as good as some other more expensive and more powerful amps I have around the house, for example an NAD C372. You just don't need much power for Klipsch, at least for such a small room. Good luck!
  2. ...and neither of which would compare favorably to the Heritage line...those are still produced here, correct?
  3. I've used a pair of Decware SE84's bridged mono for forte II's...just barely adequate for stereo, would probably lack for HT use. They do sound great, truly fantastic actually, just limited. If you live below 100db, they are a solution worth considering. Good luck on your search.
  4. Yamaha RX-396, an entry level two channel receiver. It does the job very well. In fact, that receiver plays better with the Klipsch than any of the other speakers around the house. I've also used a pair of Decware Zen amps (se84c+ w/ Hazen mods) as monoblocks. They lack the grip of the ss receiver in the bass registers, but they do the SET thing (read: sonic holography to die for) on the rest of the signal. I'm currently using the Zens to drive the highs on a bi-amped system. Some day I may bi-amp the forte's in the same manner, to get the best of both worlds. And I agree, Paul. Forte ii's kick ***, don't they? Welcome to the club.
  5. This is a secondary source, but from good primary sources, on the tubes vs. SS question. http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes_versus_Solid_State.htm It's a good read, with objective reasons given for the differences. I personally like tubes for the highs, and SS for the lows.
  6. I've also been curious about the F-2's but have enough newer stuff to play around with for a while.-space-cowboy Scratch that itch! (Among the most prevalent thoughts since getting the F-2s has been 'Why didn't I do this sooner?')
  7. It's been by experience that the very best in terms of freak-you-out realism comes by the most impractical micro power amps. The pp types I've heard were very nice, but essentially ss in character, where the shock-and-awe dynamic contrasts and exploded soundstage is a realm wholly owned by the SETs. Of course I've only heard a few. Sure makes me happy that Klipsch speakers exist...lovin the forte ii recently acquired...without which my poor sets would be far more challenging to get into. Hooray, Klipsch!
  8. I use a pair of DefTech BP7006 for the living room, strictly two channel use. They are quite slender and attractive, in a Space Odyssey 2001 monolith sense. Their strength is imaging prowess (if you like the bipolar thing, that is), but they do require lots of room to breathe (min 2' from rear wall). They have built in subs of questionable quality (they claim to go below 20hz, but the only measurements I've seen show considerable distortion below 40hz or so...my forte II's crush them for bass accuracy, for example), but you can get away without separate subs. That being said, they do create a very deep soundstage, they don't sound boxy at all, high SAQ (spousal acceptance quotient), small in stature yet reasonably full range. Their spatial imaging prowess works well for two channel use. They are efficient and easy to drive (even compatible with my fussy SET amps, if you can believe that...SET holography w/ bipolars is pretty cool.) Unfortunately, DT controls pricing so they typically aren't inexpensive.
  9. I'm still a forte newb, but rest assured that they DO image quite well. They require a little space between you and the speakers to pull it off; if you're too close, you get a wall of sound, but at a slightly greater distance the image locks in and is extremely convincing. I think this is due to the sheer size of the speakers and their highly directional nature. I also mentioned that I am lucky enough to have another system which does the holographic imaging trick very well, and it is indeed fun to virtually crawl into, up, and around the layers of the mix. The forte's, on the other hand, are a damn close facsimile of live music; its a much more visceral experience.
  10. Hola Jeeper- I just bought a pair of forte ii. I too have some placement issues regarding the room they were intended to go into, specifically that I could not corner load them. My situation was worse than yours because I could not back them up to the wall they were on either. I could get close by boosting the bass, but it still wasn't really what I was hoping for. I could only get them about 1' from the back wall, and in that position the sound was dominated by the higher frequencies, resulting in a pretty strident sound (you know, all the sort of things you typically hear about horn speakers being shouty, etc). If you could get yours closer to the back wall you may have better results. I was about to return them but decided to try them out in another room where I did have corners available. Huge difference, and unlike any other speaker I've tried the corner thing with, the results were not boomy at all. Forte II's are a pretty damn respectable speaker all around. They don't play favorites and work very well with all the genres I've tried. They are not strident or horny when placed properly, and the midrange is simply glorious. (My reference is a treated office w/ M&K Pro monitors/sub, which sounds fantastic. The fortes match that system for midrange clarity and resolution, and may surpass it in dynamics...and the M&K's are being pushed w/ a 500w/chan amp in order to get there...I've driven the fortes with each of my various amps, from the crown to the SETs, and they seem to like it all. The fortes project a big, enveloping soundstage, but don't image the same as my other systems. The soundfield is very much like a live show, and you know how convoluted and non-specific that can sound. The SETs help with this somewhat, but it is still comparatively bombastic and live sounding compared to the M&K's, for example, which are more like sitting in the studio. I have some DT BP7006 towers in the living room, and particularly when driven with SET amps, they do the holographic/disappearing act extremely well, but the forte's crush them in bass and midrange clarity, merciless resolution and dynamic impact. The Klipsch don't 'disappear' so much as energize the whole room. They have no 'boxy' coloration, very airy, clear presentation. I wish I had gotten them sooner, they are a real treat. Nothing is ever perfect, but forte II's are worth a gamble. If they don't work for you, you would have no trouble unloading a mint pair.
  11. Hola, Carbon- I kept them, seller gave in. With the new badges I had to get, I've got $385 in them, a very fair value. There are no apparent performance issues with the repaired passive. The sound is on par with my other systems, and better in the dynamics dept, lovin' it! I'm sitting here, sipping a baileys and coffee, listening to live DMB, and watching my woman go from naked to professionally dressed. Yeah, that progression is definitely the wrong direction, but someone has to work around here!
  12. So has changing placement restored the bass? (I just got my first pair of Klipsch, and I have never had a speaker that was so fussy about placement to get bass response. I almost returned them, but when I finally tried the corner thing it was all there. And it wasn't boomy, a pleasant surprise, but dry and tight. I'm using way less power than your quad, too, so definitely give it a try. The only other speaker I've owned that was this dependant on proximity to room boundaries was an M&K sub.)
  13. Thanks for the advice, wuzzer. The only difference on the repaired passive is the surround, which is fabric rather than rubber. The mass of the passive should be unchanged. It is sealed, even if the guy who replaced the surround needed glasses. I think I will upgrade as you suggested, but they seem to be performing marvelously as is. Now I'm playing with the forte's fussy nature re placement. In the room with the tubes I can't place them near any room boundaries, and bass is lacking. It kind of robs them of that high-sensitivity impact. For now they're going into the corners of the bedroom (much, much better sound with this placement), hope the lil' woman doesn't mind! I'm loving the lack of any dynamic compression, trying to get adjusted to their highly directional nature (another reason they don't seem to work well in my living room...sweet spot too constricted, and I'm used to bipolars in there. Also, and this surprises me so far, they seem to like ss power better than the tubes, but I suspect that is more of a placement issue with that particular room. I can't imagine the tubes being outclassed if I were able to corner load them. Ok, enough for now, gotta concert to attend to upstairs...
  14. That is my current dilemma...replace the passive for perhaps negligible improvement, or call Crites and spend the money on caps/mid/tweet upgrades, which could be quite significant. I can refinish the cabs on my free time whenever, and replace the passive some time down the road.
  15. Well, I have seen forte's in better condition. Fortunately, shipping is not an issue... I guess calling the sellers bluff worked...he just offered an allowance for the passive. I'm keeping 'em.
  16. I too have used a K2 in the past. Crown amps are solid. I have no personal experience with Berhinger, but have heard from EE/objectivist types that they are quality items despite Berhinger's reputation. You may also want to take a look at the Yamaha pro-audio amps. I'm with the others here, currently using a couple Decware se84's bridged. It won't get as loud, but talk about exploding your soundstage!
  17. So I just impulsively bought a pair of forte II speakers on eBay. The seller listed them as 8/10, all original parts, one previous owner. On the phone, the seller told me that they may even be considered a 9/10. They arrived yesterday, and I am a little disappointed. Based on the sellers description, I paid perhaps more than I should have ($450 specifically, but that seems in line with what 9/10 condition forte II's go for on audiogon/eBay/CL). In person, I would give them a 6 or 7 at best out of 10, cosmetically speaking, but that is not my biggest grype. One of the passives appears to have been repaired, rather sloppily. I pulled them both to check part numbers, and they both are K D 15 K passives, so it appears that someone merely replaced the surround. The cone itself does not seem damaged, but the outer rim of the cone is slightly distorted (not parallel with the rear baffle), and the surround material is different than the stock passive (accordion style fabric surround). Now, they seem to work fine. The repair job was good enough that the passive is functional, but given the different surround material I would imagine the mechanical resistance of the passives are no longer the same. Klipsch has replacements, for $126. I don't think they were worth what I paid, particularly since the seller misrepresented them. I would not be comfortable trying to sell them for $450 as they are. Maybe $300-350 would be a more realistic value. The seller, when asked if he would make an allowance for the passive and cosmetic condition said he would rather have them back, since he paid almost as much as I did for them. So, my question is, is that repaired passive worth perseverating over? I have to admit that part of me wants to keep them, but my sense of propriety says return them and get a better deal from a more honest seller. I have about a day to decide if I want a refund. What do you think, klipschfolk?
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