Ski Bum
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It looks kind of odd, but try them toed in much further, with axis crossing several feet in front of your seat. That's the only way that hard first reflections are completely side-stepped while later reflections are preserved, and the only way you can realize the time-intensity-trading aspect for that broad, super stable sweet spot. The results will still be markedly different than with the small monitors, for sure, but that's the best way I've found horns to produce incredible sonic holography. As you listen and compare, I think you'll notice one approach can "bring the musicians into your room" so to speak, with relatively higher involvement with local acoustics, while the other method will "transport you to the venue," with relatively less involvement of local acoustics.
Chris authored a meaty thread about the imaging of corner horns that's worth wading through (it's long).
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Sound stage / imaging is the province of higher frequencies. The Baby Advents have comparably wide dispersion at higher frequencies, with different interactions with the room. Floyd Toole goes into some detail about this in his book, about how we perceive reflected sound and it's effects on the sonic image. It turns out that many folks like some room interaction, as it can help the sonic image detach from the physical locations of the speakers themselves. The sweet spot is highly centralized on the mid-line beteen the speakers.
Horns, however, can do something that wide dispersion type speakers cannot, specifically producing a very stable sonic image (independent of the movements of the listener) via time-intensity trading. This requires heavy toe-in to achieve, and works better the lower your speakers hold a pattern. The resulting image has less "room" influence, and the image stability trick is something that wide dispersion speakers just cannot pull off. The sweet spot covers much larger areas of the room, as well, where listeners well off to the left and right can still enjoy a rock solid stereo image.
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41 minutes ago, richieb said:
---- Any left?!?
Moray bought them all.
Moray, can you give any credible reason why a fuse should make an audible difference? Seems the onus is on the ones claiming their fancy fuses result in audible differences. All I see in that thread is a bunch of Dunning Kruger cases wallowing in placebo effects.
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4 hours ago, wvu80 said:
I don't know, it doesn't seem all that crazy to me
I've got gold plated fuses for you, a mere $500 apiece, if you want the rich, warm tonality of gold. Silver plated fuses if you like that fast, crisp sound of silver, for just $400!! Act now, these prices won't last!
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Wut? Wow. That link epitomizes the vacuous ethics of consumerism in action, where bandits rip off dummies.
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I really don't see the appeal to having separates if you like what you're getting from the receiver. Seems to me to be more an opportunity to waste money on a hypothetical, marketing driven "upgrade". I say listen to music with your receiver, use the funds to go to concerts, or a tropical beach, or even a concert on a tropical beach. (Ok, that last one will cost more than a few stereo components.)
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Should be bluebird days for your visit. Enjoy your time in Colorado!
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It's a shame that a forum associated with PWK's name, a guy who was an actual scientist, has devolved into a hive of idiots who will believe almost anything, however ridiculous, and hold on to their lunacy with such determined ferocity.
And **** you, Dave, for trying to keep this a "safe space" for such lunacy.
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One of Maynard's creations, perhaps? I'm not sure what he has left, but you won't find a better value tube amp to try than one of his unless you build it yourself. That assumes the single ended flea watt approach is what you're considering. (You should. Phase splitters always mess things up.)
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I have some risers. Where you at?
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1 hour ago, DizRotus said:
Science is not based upon a referendum.
Peer review and scientific consensus are a bit like a referendum among the experts who directly study the issue in question. Those who fight against this expose their partisan tribal identity more than they undermine the science. The facts just don't care about ideology, it seems.
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Unsure but it is tempting, and no, not on the list yet.
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Thanks for the feedback, Roy. Always a pleasure to interact with the Chief.
I still have gobs of questions. I suppose I want to know all the secret forte sauce. I may have to visit in April and ply Roy with bourbon to get the answers. But if measurements are done better these days, I'm curious about those in the spec sheets for the earlier fortes (here and here). Both of those show extension below 38 hz. Presumably those measurements were taken in Klipsch's anechoic chamber, but for that extension, there must be more going on. Were they measured utilizing the false corners that were used for KHorn testing by chance?
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Can't really emphasize enough the importance of unclipped power, even when given a head start in the power race by virtue of high sensitivity speakers. Some of the old kit really delivered the goods, e.g. that Luxman.
A couple years ago I rehabbed an old NAD amp I've had since college. The output devices alone in that thing were so over-spec'd it was ridiculous, and that sort of overkill approach was reflected throughout. Like the Luxman, it can deliver many hundreds of watts into lower impedance loads. Real hard to clip that fucker, it just get's louder and retains that effortless sound the whole way. I can bring my more modern ATI amp, ostensibly rated for more continuous output, to it's knees much sooner than the old amp.
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If that Yamaha has an impedance selector switch on the back, put it in the "high" or 8 ohm setting. That will allow the Yamaha to deliver full rated power (although it will run hotter, too). Some of the Yamaha AVRs have over-eager protections circuitry, too, and given the rapidly dropping output power into increasing number of channels, dollars to donuts you're clipping that sucker. Seems to be a good case where off-loading the L/C/R to a good three channel, or even just the L and R to a good two channel amp, makes a bit of sense.
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I've used them too. They're exceptionally handy for providing 'variable loudness' type eq, and better than eq or tone controls for that purpose IMO (bbe doesn't amplify hiss/noise, but boosts via tone controls or eq does).
Speaking of which, I have two BBE362 for sale too.
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1 hour ago, dwilawyer said:
It was interesting to re-read this quote:
Isn't this what has come to be called a "Quasi-Sealed System"?
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Cool. Want another one?
They do make clipping a distant memory. Careful with them in bridged mode, though. They have slightly worse s/n specs and don't tolerate low impedance loads when bridged.
And is that a BBE Sonic Maximizer?!?!
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The only part of the 8 Cardinal rules I think has not stood the test of time is number 5, avoidance of cavities. He makes some broad generalizations, based on one tiny excerpt from a source from 1953. That all clearly has to do with modal behavior and Allison effect, all of which was elucidated at later dates than either the referenced Snow book or the publishing of the 8 Cardinal rules in 1961. I don't think it's coincidental that the early versions of the Cornwall had the woofs mounted low on the baffle, an approach which minimizes the Allison effect, applied a decade before that acoustic behavior even had a name.
Today we have bass management and arrayed subs, able to address bass linearity and modal behavior in superior fashion than simply "avoiding cavities".
The rest of the Cardinal rules seem as true today as they ever were.
I'm confident that the Fifteens can meet at least several of the requirements. If they actually do remains to be seen. I just hope Roy doesn't get so cranky at his corporate peers that they don't send him a pair.
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4 minutes ago, Jainbaby said:
They will both be active and not use passive crossovers inside. Can't say too much more yet or Chris might kill me!
Ok. Then speaking of tone, since these are fully active, are there any provisions for tone control or equalization?
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Squeaky wheel approach, Carl. If enough clamor for them, they may cave in.
12 hours ago, Jainbaby said:Well, my goal was for them to sound like no other speaker on the market.
This made me wonder why Klipsch doesn't have a modern flagship speaker, something analogous to JBL M2 for example.
And it also seems to me that there is a convergence of similar sound that corresponds to the degree of the quality of the engineering involved. Good speakers tend to sound more similar than different, so aiming for a distinct sonic character as opposed to neutrality seems counter-intuitive. Crush the puny competition with wide dynamic range, I say, but otherwise give what the recording has honestly. Let the musicians set the 'tone.'
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9 minutes ago, Jainbaby said:
There may have been a pair of passive 15's in the office doing a little shootout against the Forte and Sonus Faber...
Ah-ha! So can we take this as indication they are not fully active, but rather amplified passive speakers? If so, will Klipsch sell slave/passive Fifteens to those who want them?
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Soundstage questions, what the heck is going on?
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
I'm a firm believer in the "Jungle Diffusor" in our living room, and as a bonus it pukes out oxygen!
I think you're on the right track with regards to moving the dresser, and perhaps relocating the sub. You'll have a bit more lateral wiggle room for the mains. If you try the heavy toe in suggestion, you'll probably want move the speakers closer to the corners, for example.
If you move the sub you'll have to re-do the whole bass-crawl rigamarole, but you should be able to find a spot for it. I think you'll get some nice results if you have full use of the corners for your main speakers. Take advantage of that.
Once you have the sub coupled to the room from the bass-crawl, and the speakers placed however works best, you could consider some more plants or wall treatments, if the room is too lively and reflective.
Coffee tables and large tv stands between the speakers may not be ideal from an acoustics standpoint.