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fire pinch

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  1. ---------------- On 1/15/2005 4:21:02 AM DrWho wrote: http://www.northcreekmusic.com/Leviathan/LeviathanFAQ.htm 18" driver with Fs of 14Hz and 2" P-P excursion. cost: $800 ---------------- The driver you are talking about does 19mm of linear one way Xmax + its surface area = less air displacement than an Adire Tumult. +the RE XXX completely destroy it in linear air displacement. The 34mm of Xmax I was talking about is ONE way linear, so 68mm P-P linear, not P-P maximum. But given its higher Fs at the first place (I'm talking about the RE woofer), I dont know if it would be as great in very deep bass as the Tumult. When I'll have the time, Im gonna do some verifications with some modeling
  2. Well, ONE sub with ONE driver under $5000. I would say a ported DIY sub with the Resonnant Enginnering XXX 18" driver. Give me a woofer which can displace more air than this one PLUS which can sound as good 7.74 L of air displacement, a 18 incher with 32mm of one way linear excursion! There will be the new RE MT series which will come soon, not so much details are known except that these woofers have 37 to 49 Tm of Bl can I say HUGE magnet structures? They are supposed to be more powerfull to than the XXX series! Althought they are more about car audio subwoofers, I know some people who used them (as ported enclosures tuned in the 20s) in home and claim to have amazing results (BOTH in SPL and SQ). I didnt try yet to model them with simulation softwares but just when you look at both the Adire Audio Tumult and the RE XXX 15, they seems so similar! Having a sealed Tumult in home (I know how it sounds) plus seeing so much people telling that the RE XXXs and the Tumult have similar sound quality (very little difference), seeing often those woofers ranked as the best sounding and the most powerfull woofers available on many "woofer forums" (I may add also the Adire Brahma 15, the TC Sounds UE 15)... I think that I can say that one of these woofers, in a well conceptualized ported enclosures, with an enough powerfull amplifier, give all together one if not the most powerfull single sub with a single driver available today below $5000, (the RE XXX 18" having the edge in absolute power). I'm talking here about the best SQ and power, not about the best cosmethics... YOU would define how beautifull it would be
  3. ---------------- hmmmm... you know you need a car for "car audio", right? and one with a VERY large trunk for a Tempest sub welcome back... Rob ---------------- ahhHAAAAA Famili Prix! Its because I HAVE this car now Yes, I bought a car during the summer time, this is a Saturn SL2 2000, manual trans. all black with a little modified custom spoiler which add to it a nice look. I didnt look at this kind of car first but I had an incredible deal I just couldnt pass over! ... 5450$ CAN And finally, I like very much that car, fun to drive, I just hope that I wont get any kind of big troubles with it in the upcoming months and years. It still passed the inspection before buying greatly. So one day, Im gonna come to your house with my Tumult And why not passing by the Oreille house too, if he welcomes me, I would like to meat him (ahem... lol MEET him) too one day and to see all those subs I dont know when I'll be able to do that trip thought... But Im thinking about it!
  4. hahaha YEAH!! Wow I didnt post for a GOOD WHILE! God lord Jesus! But I'm back, at least for today !! I got very very (really?) very very ultra excellently buzy during the summer and Im still a bit buzy again these days... For your information, that was the first VTF-3, not the VTF-3 Mark II but it is still sold lol! Im now effectively (Formica doing Telepathy) with a sealed Tumult subwoofer, soon to be in a vented enclosure, YES a vented enclosure! I dont know why but I kind missed the efficiency of a ported enclosure and I know that Im missing quite much with a sealed Tumult. I should be in the 120 dBs all the way from 20 Hz and up with 1600W of power but this is really not the case with a sealed box... still getting great 124 dBs around 35-40 Hz, can I tell you that this makes my objects in my bedroom screaming! And now, I have my eyes on car audio. I began to buy some parts such as the head unit (wow! lol!) and now Im thinking about a Tempest for the sub, that Tempest with a Hifonics amp which gives 600W into 4 ohms. Its pretty the best 4 amp for the price that Ive found (which can give a nice 4 ohms load of course), it costs around 130USD. I dont know still if that amp is great, but I think that im gonna still buy it. I just have to find out how much CAN dollars it costs (shipping, etc etc). Wow that was nice to see all of you today, and Oreille, j'aimerais I would like tellement so much garder tous les subs que jai eu to keep all the sub I got, mais but ma chambre de clochard est tellement gigantesque, my bum bedroom is so huge que je n'ai de la place que pour un that I have only the place for one! Woaaaaw when I read again all of this, this makes my head explode just a little a lot! Well ... also this is a question of budgette (money). And anyway, its like... the Tumult = Hsu + Tempest LOL! and some more. Formica all said it well
  5. ---------------- On 6/8/2004 10:06:23 PM mike stehr wrote: ***So would that be 68mm peak to peak? ***Yeah, but there is a good chance you'll find user's that broke the sub from playing the driver itself too loud. ---------------- Yep, this means 68 mm peak to peak! Do you means "the enclosure" broking because of the driver which plays too loud?? Well, I'll tell you when my Tumult enclosure will broke, I will even make a post on the Klipsch forum when this will happen. But Im sure that this will not happen, as I pushed the Tumult to its limit a few times and 75% of its limit several times. Even at 75% (approximative) of its limit, it is more loud and displace more air than a lot of woofers out there! The subs which brake must be poorly built, OR you just heard a great myth!
  6. Well, the Tumult is one of the if not the most powerfull 15 inchers in the world and I have it! 34mm of LINEAR one way xmax! Quite a lot more capable than the best Sunfire. I never broke any enclosure with it yet when it was pushed to its limit if this can make you more confident! This is truely a myth! Ive never heard of another Tumult user broking his enclosure while the sub is playing at a loud volume.
  7. ---------------- On 6/7/2004 9:04:57 PM TheEAR wrote: ---------------- On 6/7/2004 6:18:10 PM om13934 wrote: I don't have any idea whether it is true or not, but I seem to remember hearing that some of the very first sunfire cubes built exploded while being tested. They do have dual active woofers right??? So I guess maybe they could explode if the cabinets were poorly constructed, but that's all I can think of in regard to this thread. ---------------- This is a load of bull spread by people who want to scare customers from Sunfire products.I have THREE Sunfire subs and two Carver KS subs and none has ever had any problems.And I drove them as hard as can be done. So is the myth of exploding Sunfires true...yes as true as the one about the giant frog that was eating people.Urban legends nothing more ---------------- I agree totally with The_Ears on this!!! I wasnt affraid that my box explode but I was a bit worried about building a 3/4" MDF sealed box for my Tumult. I was affraid that the box would vibrate too much (like dancing on the floor) but when you do lots of bracing, in the end, you have a sturdy enclosure which is VERY able to support the power of a great woofer such as a Tumult, Sunfire and the TC Sound HE-15 to name some. Just imagine, a Tumult can move 5.1 liters of air, this is a lot! The comon carpenter glue used for joining my MDF pannels can support pressures of ABOVE the 1000 pounds tag!!! I imagine that the Sunfire Signatures are at least as solid as my enclosure is and even maybe more. And dont worry, when I touch to the enclosure when it is driven hard, I feel like confident
  8. Hi Jay, My Tumult subwoofer is a 18x18x18" sealed cube. The woofer will maybe sit in a larger vented cube this summer with two Stryke PR18 radiators, tuned to around 20 Hz. But when I read your question again, you seem to want to dimension of the Tumult woofer only??? Do you mean how much space in the enclosure?? Adire Audio told me about 7 liters. But dont be SO SO perfect and accurate in your measurements, you waste your time. You can even have some little differences between different Tumult woofer for the T/S specs!!! Personally, I wanted a Qtc around 0,65 and even if WinISD told me that at 25 Hz, Im loosing quite a lot of dBs, this isnt the case in my room. The sub begins to loose some extension at 25 Hz, I got very surprised! So yes, you can trust WinISD, but dont think that you will get the SAME SAME Qtc that you simulated in the end, its almost impossible! Your room and how you will place the sub, how well built your sub will be, all of this will have a large impact for the final results. The enclosure must be GREATLY sealed for that monster, the woofer moves a lot of air and let you know if you have any air leaks easily, specially with lower frequencies.
  9. ---------------- On 4/26/2004 10:49:33 PM TheEAR wrote: A PB2-Plus hits hard at 11Hz...LOL What a load of corn,no subwoofer hits hard at 11hz,there is no such thing as hitting hard at 11hz unless you have a dozen Tumults in a dipole configuration.And you are in a very small room. Some people live by the hype they spit out ---------------- No subwoofer hits hard at 11 Hz??? Well, with the last SPL test I did with my sealed Tumult subwoofer, I saw that you dont need a dozen Tumults in a dipole configuration. My test showed a 112 dB at 12 Hz while the woofer almost got out of the enclosure! This isn't 120 dB, but this is above reference level! That high number for a single woofer is maybe due to the soft bass roll off (sealed enclosure). I wonder what I'd get with a vented Tumult...
  10. This is why I am so sure that the crossover setting had something to do... Just at home, when Im testing different crossover points with my subwoofers (I have two different), if I set it too highly (100-120 Hz for example), I turn up the volume until the amp reach its limit and I dont get as much felt power, I can say that I get far less punch and TRUE bass (below 40 Hz). Don't you think all that this is quite logical? The amp in that case just waste too much of its power for mid bass and upper bass...
  11. "with the low pass xover on the sub set to about 110 I think.. " If this is the case, I find that the crossover was set really too high!!! The mid-bass should be handled by the floorstanders IMHO so all the power used by the subwoofer is more used for lower frequencies. Im pretty sure that this was due to the high crossover setting! When I turn up my low pass from 50 to 100 Hz for example with my Tumult subwoofer, I find that Im loosing the extra super punch I get around 40 Hz. This is because all the amp power is used for higher frequencies. I would go again to the store and try to reduce the crossover point (you or the salesman). Be sure that if the low pass is set at 60 Hz for example, that the towers will play down to 60 Hz too, very important if you dont want to miss the mid-bass punch from the towers. And dont be shy in front of the salesmans, afterall, they souldnt be agressive if their goal is to sale their subwoofers
  12. ---------------- On 4/24/2004 10:30:23 PM goretexpretzels wrote: Does anyone have dB figures for a 22/25-31PCi? I am close to getting one, and it would be nice to know. ---------------- If you wanna know how much dB you will get, we would need at least you room dimension for an estimate. To know this information, I would ask the question to Tom from SVS by email. He would answer your question rapidly and with pleasure ---------------- On 4/24/2004 11:10:18 PM T_Shomaker wrote: If I got an SVS PCi could I at a later point take out their woofer and then put a better driver in? ---------------- Sure you can... but do you want to hear port noise? Because if you put a better driver in, air flow will increase out of the 4" flared port and you will most likely hear some port noise. Beeing port restricted, the sub would start to have some compression and wouldnt perform as well as if there was more venting area. However, if the SVS would be sealed instead of vented, replacing the existing 12" driver could be great, as long as the driver is well suited for the cylinder.
  13. Hmm... I will say for starting very safely that the Pci or CS line beats ANY subwoofer under $1000. But there is still the Hsu STF-3 which is very competitive against these, Dr. Hsu is an exception So without even telling more, you just see how much good SVS are for the money when you compare even their lowest budget subs against the rest!!! But... lets face it, the DIY way will always be the best way for having the most for you money (Im sorry, I had to say it)! In that case, if I keep the same comparo (SVS PCi/CS), you can build a Shiva subwoofer which will keep up against them for under $400!! This can be frustrating when you know this but well, you must have the patience and the tools and sometimes, when you dont have the tools and enough skill, a DIY sub can cost you as much as a commercial one!
  14. ---------------- On 4/23/2004 7:25:40 PM lorcoll wrote: I am starting to build my powered sub with the Adire Shiva. Do you can tell me the best choice among sealed or vented box? I have a Shiva woofer, a 250 Watt Plate amp and I haven't space problem. I'll use it only for music (I have Khorn and Heresy). Thanks. ---------------- OHHH! And I forgot to see that you have the KHorns! Hmm... I think that a single Shiva wont do justice with those Klipschs. For JUST $25 more than the Shiva, just that, you can have a woofer which can move 60% more air: Adire Audio Tempest. I highly suggest this woofer to you, as you said that space isnt a problem. An EBS vented Tempest would look like huge, but you would be amazed for sure at how much bass you could have from this monster for so little dollars. According to some people, the Tempest = an SVS Ultra! By the way, you will keep the same amp with the Tempest too... you will get more SPL with the same amp power because the woofer is simply more sensitive. I have a Tempest and a Tumult in my room and I can say that the Tempest is amazing for the $$$. I even had some tears to my eyes when I first listened to it!! Oh and by the way, my Tempest is for sell. It is on my room, but I dont use it...
  15. Normally, we would say go sealed if you are a "music man". BUT... ported subs are more efficients and good designed vented subs can bring to you as much quality as with sealed boxes. If space isnt a problem, I would recommand an EBS ported enclosure: 143 liters box tuned to 18 Hz with a single 4" flared port (if it was me I'd use two 3" flared ports but one 4" is still enough) and you should be in buisness.
  16. ---------------- On 4/18/2004 11:07:56 PM Jordan wrote: Hey welcome back. Acoustic Visions just got some Blueprint driver in. They are good and cheap! Here's the link. http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/products/subwoofer_drivers/blueprint/ They look to be more home oriented. I'm lookin at the 10 or 12 in a small sealed box. They look to be huge. ---------------- Yep, they are great drivers for the money! But if you will use it in a sealed box, you will pay for loosing more extension than other drivers. I say this because I tried the 18er in WinISD Pro and I found that it didnt extend well when used in a sealed box. And when I looked at the Blueprints T/S parameters, I found that they weren't so good for a sealed box IMHO. They have quite high Fs for example... In a sealed box, less pricier than the Bluprints 10 or 12, I would look more at the Stryke AV-12 which is at $175. That woofer would give you more low end extension in a sealed box if used properly. http://www.stryke.com/AVseries.html *Update*: The Blueprints in a vented box can be great, but anything below a 22-25 Hz tuning would let you see that they arent the best drivers for <22 Hz tuning.
  17. For an SVS alternative, you should look more at the Hsu STF-3. The comparison against the SVS would be better with that sub.
  18. ---------------- On 4/15/2004 1:16:07 AM formica wrote: The burning bush lives !! If the old numbers are no longer valid... shoot us some new ones. BTW, you have to try bubbling paint scene from Matrix Reloaded for a fun sub test. (I watched but havent compared the Revolutions disk yet) And I agree for home audio where size isnt critical... a 15 drive with over 50% more surface area, will almost always provide more bang for the buck. Rob ---------------- Yeah the Burning bush is alive!! I wanted to write you an email but I formated again (due to my new cpu and mobo) so I lost all my contact list in Outlook. I saved all the necessary things except the mail adresses!! I kinda remembered yours but I wasnt sure! Justly, Im gonna be able to watch Matrix Reloaded next month because it will be "en PRIMEUR" at "Super Écran" (Sorry for the english dudes, I dont know how to convert the Super Écran channel in english! lol! Super screen?? It doesnt make any sense! And for the new numbers, well, Im gonna try to test the subwoofer during the evening, I'd have a good opportunity to do it. But like I said, you can expect a good +2 dB pretty anywhere so if at 40Hz I got 121 dB, this is most likely 123 dB now, pretty agressive and violent in a room! Knowing that my Tempest, once all ports blocked could do 3dB less than when the ports are opened, and knowing that when its ports are blocked this is like a LOW Q sealed box, I should expect something like 127 dB @ 40 Hz, at the listening position (3 meters away) if I'd make my Tumult sub vented, with passive radiators! Pretty crazy I can say, for a single subwoofer with a single driver! You know? I have the taste to make one during the summer time ahhhhhhh!! But I find that my sealed Tumult is enough... but but, I just would like it to be better below 30 Hz, where all the deep bass is so enjoyable and painfull for the walls and the house structure! Well... upgrading to a vented Tumult wouldnt cost me like if I bought another sub. The added cost would be if I choose to go with passive radiators but this is most likely what Im gonna do if I build a vented Tumult. Why? Because... 1- I wont have to wonder about port noise, 2- I would experiment different tuning points. I'd choose an enclosure size so changing tuning points wouldnt make the FR curve look bad. I thought about a 4 cubic ft box... a 5 cubic ft would be better for choosing a low tuning such as below 20 Hz, but with that box size, if change the tuning point to lets say 22 or 25 Hz, the frequency curve would look like more "bumped". I would choose initialy a tuning point of 20 Hz, like the mid-sized SVS cylinders, because I dont want to miss the extra punch, even if not that needed and at the same time, I dont want to loose lots of extension. I think that this is a good choice for that kind of compromise. Well... Im out for eating! I dont garanty to show the new numbers today, but I will try to do my best. How was the Sound and Vision show?
  19. Wow!!! Sorry to answer so lately!! If size isnt an issue, I recommand that you really choose the Brahma 15 over the 12. The price increase from the 12 to the 15, is quite little and choosing the 15 over the 12 well worth the buy for the performance you will get! And just by looking at the T/S parameters of the 12 and 15, the 15 looks to me like it is more suited for a 18-20 Hz tuned vented box. Wow that tread was really dead but it is now back! For the new visitors of this tread, the performance numbers you saw of my sealed Tumult arent the true one. Since I placed the subwoofer differently, without a piece of furniture, numbers grewed up by 2 dB at any frequencies. That piece of furniture was really a bottleneck!
  20. Congratulation for that purchase!! You made a good choice. Im sure you will really love that sub! Well, how many people didnt like it once they tested it at home?? Hell, even your future SVS will be more powerfull than your HT dual KSW10 subs!! By the way, just to add some grains of salt, my PC sub is a sealed Tumult lol! I find that it is enough for me but I have the evil idea to build a vented enclosure for that bad boy, I would just like it to be more powerfull in the low 16s. I posted some numbers in the past of my Tumult, but they arent valid anymore as I gained a good +2dB anywhere (not only at a given frequency) because I found a new spot for it (for those who remember, NO PIECE OF FURNITURE IN THAT CORNER ANYMOOOORE! the sub sits on the floor)! I think that TheEar owns a Sunfire Junior or a Rel sub for his main Pc. Not sure thought... you have some nice competition
  21. Hmmm a powerfull boomy sub -> Paradigm PS-1200 The problem is that it is not cheap. I had the PS-1000 and I find that it produced great boomy bass, it was very impressive for the 10 inchers it was! This was the most powerfull boomy sub Ive heard under 750$USD. 115 dB of punchy bass in room was always possible with it in my 1500 cubic ft room. Lots of punch but forget all the bass under 30 Hz.
  22. hmmm because Im a canadian, I dont know too much what would be the best place for you in USA. If you dont have any answers in a few days, well, you should try to post your question in the Klipsch Promedia section. I hope that you will succeed to have some help!
  23. On my "Tumult first impressions" tread, I wrote like a little preview and you can know how it sounds. Except than now, it sounds even better without those air leaks and without that piece of furniture. Moreover, I get more SPL, I just got a peak of 123 dB @ one meter during a song, which amazed me quite a lot , this is my record for the moment, the sub wasnt at its limit but not far. I could do my tests before the night, but I have the taste to give the sub a break, at least for today. Moreover, my parents downstairs watch the Tv and the Tumult piss them off when it is too loud! But for sure, this changement of location means that Im gonna re-do all my tests again. Because I found that some things have changed. By the way, where are you all people reading this topic?? Where are all my Tempest topic people?
  24. I finally got ride of my piece of furniture!! See by yourself: Ahhhh! I feel like I have lots of more place now! I runned some fast tests and they show that I gain some SPL It seems that I got some more upper bass, where there was a valley in the FR curve. Also, the sub sounds better overall, there is not that piece of furniture anymore which was vibrating (the back of it vibrated). So before doing any other testing, I prefer to enjoy the improvments Maybe I will run the FR curve and MAX SPL test before midnight, but this will be more like tomarrow or in a few days this week.
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