astralography

To my ears... the Forte ll's have much more detail. The Scala's will provide more volume, but there is a trade off. The Forte ll's are very clean and detail oriented speakers. I am not a big fan of the La Scalas. I had a pair a while back and sold them because they didn't have enough detail for me. Folded horns give nice rounded bass tones for blues and vintage jazz. If you want tight punchy bass, stick with the Forte ll's.

I just bought a pair of Forte ll's and really am shell shocked at how wonderful these speakers sound. I am a huge fan of horn music, jazz, funk, and so on.. rock with horns.. and I think vocals sound best through horn driven speakers. Having the two horns to me added the dynamic range that was not in other single horned speakers I have owned. What really blew me away was the bass response.. not just the volume of bass, but the CLARITY of the low end. I am a bass player, and as an electric bass player, any great bassist worth his salt KNOWS that you need a 15 inch woofer in your cabinet. I don't care what the modern tech guys argue about smaller coned long throw subs... they just ain't the same my friends. A 15 inch speaker is going to move air in a different way.. and if you want proper sound replication... you need a 15 inch woofer to properly re create what the original microphone diaphram picked up from bass guitar coming out of a a fender bassman cabinet or similar set up. I would argue that acoustic bass also sounds much more REAL coming out of a 15. I don't like powered 15 inch woofers. The 15 inch passive radiator is the way to go. It was a great invention and should be in any serious audiophile's speaker stack. Pushing the speakers back into the corners is the right way to do it. This way you really get the walls working for you. I have owned Bella's and heard Cornwalls, and as far as detail .. the Forte ll leaves those others in the dust. These are incredibly musical speakers that should be able to contend with just about anything out there from any era. The Forte ll? Why would you have anything else?

Ok.. I spent the day trying out the new Belle's and it was more than interesting. First let me say I have two systems, one downstairs in a small livingroom 20 x 14, the other in our master bedroom which has been home to my main listening room and it is about 17 x 14 Both systems use the long wall for the speakers. Not great rooms.. but all I have.. downstairs is Spanish Tile, upstair hardwood. Upstairs has a king bed, couch downstairs.. far from ideal. Downstairs has a Fisher X100 tube amp, with a Dual TT.. amp is great, TT is marginal Upstairs is HH Scott 340B vintage Tube, Music Hall 5.1 TT.. both excellent After I sold my JBL's I scaled down to the Klipsch 3.2 of which I have two pair. I upgraded to the 5.2 because I had heard them and liked the detail on the low end from the passive woofer.. I suppose you don't get the volume on the low end, but the passive woofer offers exceptional detail on low mid range, to low range. I did miss the crispness of the highs, particularly on a hi hat (I am also a drummer) that the little 3.2's offered.. so one day I just tagged the 3.2's to the back of the 5.2's and found a nice result blending those two speakers. Something was still a bit odd, and I then tried flipping the 3.2 upside down so that the tweeters on the 5.2 and the 3.2 were next to one another, and the woofers of course then had greater separation... It's a magic formula for a detail oriented listener. I added a powered sub to fake the low end a bit, and I can say for a smaller room that size, it really worked magic.. from Miles Davis, to Led Zeppelin, very honest musical set up. Now.. the Belle.. First I hooked it up downstairs because I had no one around to help me get them upstairs.. so I hooked them to the Dual TT and Fisher. First impression was big volume. They sounded a bit bright, and slightly harsh.. but amazingly good at low volumes. I then tried combinining it with the 5.2 with little success.. they simply over powered it. I then messed with toeing them in toward me, and that was not good.. then I moved them into the corners and this completely changed the sound as if they were completely different speakers. Much warmer sounding in the corners. I could quickly tell these are speakers where placement is everything. I have read lots about this and how placement is so important, but this is the first time I have owned BIG speakers.. so I am assuming that BIG means placement becomes very critical.. much more so than smaller speakers.. I guess this makes sense. The Dual TT was having vibration issues, from the low end, as it was too close to the speaker... and just for fun I put a couple sponges under it to soften the vibration or elimitate it.. and bingo.. HUGE difference. I understand now why audiophiles get so obsessed with no vibrations reaching the TT. Today I took them upstairs with some help.. and quickly plugged them it for a listen with the Scott. The sounded great... without doing any kind of placement.. Then I put them up on stands and toed them in so I would get a direct line from the horns.. they lost all their bass, and sounded harsh and metallic. I them put them back on the floor, and they were full of bass, and had nice tone. Then I tried putting them into the corners, and this again improved the sound considerably to my ears. They sounded much better and better imaging having them just run along the walls, and not cornered or toed in at all. The wood floors for some reason really fill in the low end nicely.. That is just day one.. and I need to listen to other records.. I used Steely Dan Aja as a reference, because I am familiar with the recording, even though it has a bit too much compression for my tastes.. I think I slighly miss the real honest definition of the passive woofer in the 5.2... however, I do welcome the richness and sustain on the low end the Bella provides. The highs and mids seem to be a real strength of the Belle's with a more rounded deeper richer low end when placed on the wood floors. That seems to be a good fit. I have not tried Belle with a sub or any combining of the other speakers yet.. so I am sure one of my big problems is placement. I will have to listen to some jazz records and I can tell a lot by a drummer brush work. I might put on Miles "Kind of Blue" and some Brubeck to hear good acoustic recordings. Then I will probably play some of my favorite rock records like Jeff Beck's Blow by Blow which is a very well recorded rock album, Supertramp "Crime of the Century" and YES' Fragile to get a feel for that. Electric Jazz stuff like Mahavishu Orchestra "Vision of the Emerald Beyond, and 70's Maynard Fergenson stuff is very well recorded. I only play vinyl as I simply don't like the sound of CD's at all.. new or old. I don't care for new vinyl pressings, because they are clearly just pressing a CD version after re working it in a digital work station, then trying to fool the public into it being vinyl when it is nothing more that CD.. I would just buy the CD and avoid the future crackles and pops. So again, I think placement is king with these, and I may simply not have a room that is going to be ideal for these speakers.. I'll listen again tomorrow with fresh ears, and see what I find spinning a few different things.

I do let my own ears do the judging, as I am more inclined to trust that then any kind of spec sheets. I was just wondering why the Klipschorns would have more bass if they are basically both using 15 woofers with similar crossovers. My guess (probably wrong) would be that the vibration of the wood from the cabinet is going to provide the bulk of the lower frequencies rather than a direct blast from the speaker cone head on. Wood going to vibrate in a way that is conducive to it's inherent make up.. and being an organic product, will offer a uniquely different response than a graphite, metal or plastic box would. I listen to mostly jazz, classical and progressive rock, some vocal music, so I am not overly obsessed with low end.. what I like is a well rounded balanced sonic spectrum.

Thanks Richard, that is helpful.. I am waiting for banana plug - spade adapters to come so I don't have to strip off my existing wires... they should arrive any day. It will be fun to hook these up to my existing set up... Scott tube amp and Music Hall 5.1 TT. With the discussion here about the Belle's lack of a comparative bass frequency to other models, is this primarily do to the reflective design of the enlosed woofer cabinet? Or the way the cross overs are wired? It would seem to me that with a reflective speaker set up, the wood itself is going to be taking on more of the vibration than a direct speaker through into the room. Am I close or way off base (bass lol) here? I think someone mentioned success using a sub set at 40 hz? Also, has anyone experimented running an additional set of speakers in parallel with any positive results.. I know I am getting ahead here, but I tend to experiment a lot with speaker set up, positioning, and blending. My current set up is a blend of 5.2 and 3.2 running in parallel with a sub.. and the results are excellent.. but I still would like a bit more richness on the low end, and I suspect the Bella's will offer that with a pair of 15" woofers in the room

I have always thought a 15" woofer is really required to get a natural sounding low end

The paper decal is gone, but you can see the RP at the bottom left of the picture, but I don't see anything engraved after that. It would be interesting to know how old these are... I am still deciding if I should fully refinish them up before they get hauled into the house. Looking forward to listening to them here soon. I have another tube amp on the way a vintage tube Fisher X100.. so that might be the match for it. How do these sound in the mid range? Are there any holes or has anyone tried running an extra set in parallel other than a sub?

These have RP stamped there.. but I can't see any other stamping. Most of the boards have U2 stamped on them. I don't get any kind of feeling that these are faked or forged. The amp that apparently came with it that I did not buy was an old Magnavox with tubes, might be mono... and had shortwave radio dial on it.. Is there no way to date it based upon the speakers or markings on the cross overs?

On the back of the woofer it says K 33E 67 5450 or it might be 8450? The small teeter says 14 824 0137 K-77 not sure if that would give a clue or not, assuming those numbers just define the speakers.

Mission accomplished. $1080 brought them home... They hooked them up to a small boombox, and they sounded fine in fact they really blasted.. so it will be fun to listen to them later with real gear. Is there any way of telling what year they are? There are no stickers anywhere, just some #'s on the tweeter and the back of the woofer, which I took a peak at through the access board underneath. The woofer appears to be in excellent condition, and I would think the horns would last a long time without degredation. Are people upgrading them? any suggestions from here? thanks

What would be the difference between the Belle and the La Scala? or are they essentially the same thing with only very sublte differences? I will be down there tomorrow and see what I can negotiate.. thanks..

Apparently the shop owner wants $1000 plus CA tax for them.. Tomorrow is the day I would buy them if I do... what are the basic characteristics of these? Are there any upgrades that would be highly suggested or are they best left as is? I am not sure I would be able to demo them with my gear, so the challenge would be hearing them with other junk they have in the store like cheap SS amps and CD players. I don't mind buying them and giving them a try.. it sounds like if they don't work to my tastes, I would be able to sell them fairly easily for about this price? I am not very educated on these, so I thank you for your advice. Hopefully I can get them and they will sound great. If not, get them into the hands of someone who would fully appreciate them.. thanks

Can a 35 watts per channel Scott tube amp power these things or a Fisher X100 tube?

I saw these in a second hand store.. and it said on the tag to "see manager" Assuming they work, what would be a good price? I have smaller Klipsch 5.2 and 3.2 running in parallel with nice success off a restored 1964 HH Scott Tube amp (340 B?) What kind of Klipsch and what year would these be if anyone knows? Should I buy them and for how much?