gagelle

Thanks very much. That's what i thought. I even tried a new integrated amplifier to eliminate the Sansui as a source of the problem.

Hello all, My son the original klipsch Forte speakers. He used one of those CD cleaner disks that contains a phasing test. Well, the test indicated his speakers were not in phase. We checked the wiring about ten times: Positive to positive and negative to negative from a restored Sansui 9090DB. We then tested two other Klipsch speakers, a pair of KG 1.5 with the same result. The second sound on the disk is supposed be softer and it isn't. All the speakers are original except for the installion of new Crites tweeter titanium diagraphams on the Fortes. Last night, my son read an article that states these phase testing disks don't work on some speakers, due to the way the crossover is set up. They sound fine, with plenty of deep bass. Anyone have an idea about this situation? Thanks in advance.

I want to sell my Klipsch KLF-30 speakers. I'm asking $425. I live near Fresno CA. I am right on the Fresno border and 5 minutes from a major freeway. A divorce forced me to sell my house some years ago. These monsters need space and are too big for my apartment. (One can't sit two feet from the huge horns.) They sound their best in the corners of a medium to large room. They also sound reveal their full potential powered by a good amplifier. A cheap multimedia receiver won't cut it. With solid state equipment, I thought my Sansui receivers were perfect matches. My Sansui G-8000 made them sing. They can easily be restored to new condition with parts from Bob Crites. These speakers have a full sound with unbelievable bass response. There are very high in efficiency and can easily be driven with a low powered tube amp. Condition: There work perfectly. They have an oak finish. The backs were firmly secured by the last owner. The primary defect is a juice stain on the top of one speaker. I just use a cloth to cover the stain. I'm sure it can be removed by the more knowledgeable. Their serial numbers are not sequential. I've read that the matching numbers just ensure a wood grain continuity and don't affect the sound. If I'm wrong, I welcome more accurate information. One speaker is missing a Klipsch badge. I also have two cats. There has never been smoking in my living area. They certainly are able to get very loud without a trace of distortion. This is a stock photo of the speakers in black with all the specks. I will take actual photos for those interested. The reason I don't have them now is that I have a bad back and would have to move them to get a decent photo. There are no other major cosmetic flaws. They may have some superficial scratches that can only be seen by a close inspection. I'm about 3 hours from the Bay area and 3 1/2 hours from the LA area. I drove 2 hours to pick them up in my Toyota Corolla. I actually damaged the interior of my car trying to fit them in my back seat. I can't meet anybody half way for 2 reasons: my bad back and small car. These monsters need a pickup truck or SUV. I would be happy to ship but have no boxes. So if anybody wants them shipped, they would have to make all the arrangements. They were never upgraded or changed, to the best of my knowledge. As I mentioned, I am not the first owner. I bought them from someone on the Klipsch forum. I would be sorry to see them go. But they take up so much room in my small bedroom, it's ridiculous. Please send me an email if interested. I sometimes don't log on for days. Thanks

Those L.I. killings are not far from where I grew up. It's a beautiful area of beach that stretches for hundreds of miles. What a pity. I remember reading about several serial killings near the NY mero area, the most notorous being the son of sam killings. There was another craigs List incident a while ago where some guy put in a fake ad that a woman was abandoning her house and everything was free for the taking. She was actually going on vacation. she returned to a completely gutted house. Even the fixtures and copper pipes were pulled out. The guy eventually was caught. It turned out he had a runnung feud with the woman.

I saw something similar a few months ago by a guy who was supposedly ripped off on a Sansui receiver. His warnings were remomed by Craigs List. I would still be careful. I recently read about two Audio Karma members who were robbed in public places during Craigs List exchanges. One was handicapped and knocked to the ground while onlookers did nothing. Generous AKers afterward sent him donations. I would advise anyone meeting a stranger this way to bring a friend or two.

I would get a pair of Forte speakers and put in all the Crites upgrades. My son has them and I'm surprised by their excellent sound. The Forte lls are getting too expensive lately. You can still find a bargain on the Fortes. Just me 2 cents.

I like to see a happy ending. Most people don't realize how good these amps sound. But I do. I have the 3 channel model XPA.

Oh, I'm drooling. They are exquisite!. If I only had the room and the money. They were a life long dream of mine. When I owned a house, I could have found a pair. The room was nice sized with real corners. But, alas came misfortune and the house was lost. One day, perhaps. I've heard them powered by an expensive class A amplifier and they were brilliant--I almost went deaf on 5 watts of power. Amazing marvels of engineering. I will tell everybody that they will make the orchestra or band sound like it's in your room.

Thanks, Morey, for the clarification. I take everything I read on the web with a grain of salt. I will search for that web site. They had instructions for creating an active crossover. It was totally over my head, though.

OK, this is something I read late one night when I was tired, so I don't remember the source. This audio engineer wrote that biamping a speaker with a passive crossover does very little, or nothing for the sound. You're not really biamping but biwiring. What is needed is a well designed active crossover. Then biamping can make a significant difference in sound quality. Now, I'm merely repeating this person's words. I have no engineering background and, therefore, have no idea if this person knows what he's writing about. I just thought it would be an interesting topic to bring into this interesting discussion.

No, I haven't biamped because I don't have any amps with volume controls. My son is using a restored Sansui 9090DB with the Fortes. This combination sounds terrific. I just gave him an Onkyo CD player and connected a used Cambridge Audio DAC. The DAC sounded mediocre until I bought a Pangea power supply to replace the original one. What a difference! It sounds like a another DAC. I never thought a better power supply could have such a radical affect on a DAC's sound quality. He's now playing WAV files directly from his computer and they sound fantastic. My son likes the Fortes so much that he wants to eventually restore them with Crites upgrades. (When he gets the money.) To tell you the truth, my CF3s used to sound great when I owned a house and they were in a large room. The trouble started when I had to move to an apartment and put them in my son's small bedroom. As my son complained numerous times, "I can't take it, I'm sitting three feet from those horns." While biamping may have solved the problem, I'm probably moving into even smaller quarters soon. Right now, I'm in downsizing mode and will unfortunarely have to sell off many of my large speakers and other equipment that I collected over the years.

Update: Forte 1s sound fantastic with no piercing high end. These are stock. They will soon be given the full Crites treatment and are easy to upgrade through the opening for the passive woofer.

Well, my son went nuts last night and moved the CF-3s out of his room replaced them with some Forte1s that I was using as rear speakers in my 5.1 media system. He wants to see if the Fortes lack that piercing sound. I'm going to hook up the CF3 to another receiver and try some of the damping solutions that you suggested, Morey. On the Harbeth, I was referring to the 7ES-3. (I should have clarified.) But this isn't the place to discuss other speaker brands, so I'll just save my opinion for another forum. I recently went totally digital and am playing everything from my MacBook Pro. I can only say that I am thoroughly enjoying myself.

Hi Morey, My son complains that his CF-3s sound irritating but only on poor recordings. There is no distortion or vibration that he can hear, only a thin, irritating horn-like sound that gradually gets on his nerves. On well mastered recordings, they sound great. In fact, he has been participating in the "Steve Hoffman Forum" to find the best pressings of his favorite rock CDs. When he makes the music loud, the annoying, piercing quality definitely increases. In this case, I can see the probability that those huge woofers are causing resonance from the horns. Damping them would be the easiest solution for us. Also, raising them a foot should help because right now, the horns are level with his ears when he's in a sitting position. But to reiterate, we didn't notice a problem when the speakers were in a large living room. There's another change that just came to my memory: We were previously using a 30 watt Harman Kardon receiver to power the speakers. I bought the receiver and speakers new, as a package. I distinctly remember the problem starting when we switched to using a vintage Sansui. It produced so much more bass than the HK, we were pleasantly surprised but unaware that the extra bass would cause a problem with the horns. My son's still using a Sansui 9090DB that was professionally restored. (On some songs, the bass from the CF-3s literally shakes the whole apartment.) Bracing is not an option for several reasons. The first is that I'm living in an apartment with no work space or tools. And In complete honesty, my woodworking skills are.. well..nonexistent. This isn't relevant, but I'm curious about the Harbeths you mentioned. Let's just say I'm very familiar with them. They have the sweetest, laid back sound I've ever heard. Why would anyone want to bi-amp them? In fact, they're known for playing well with just about any power source. (Although an acquaintance who writes audio reviews professionally, told me that they sound their best with amplifiers that have a built in DAC based on the ICEPower 125ASX2 module, like the Bel Canto integrateds.)

This is a perfect example of a great question and answer. It's a subject I know nothing about and hits with the force and excitment of new knowledge. Wouldn't it have been easy and cheap to just put in an equilizer? It goes to show how deep sound engineering really goes. Thanks again Morey for a terrific lesson. My son may join the discussion because he's having the same problem with his Epic CF-3s. I was mistaken about my extra amplifiers. They do not have any controls. He doesn't have the money for two new amplifiers. We're going to try the cheapest solutions first, like raising up the speakers and putting some damping material around the horns.

Moray, thanks for all the help. I actually have enough equipment to bi-amp those speakers. The problem again is lack of space. I don't even have enough space to add another amplifier! You wouldn't believe what my apartment looks like. The whole place is filled with audio equipment in different stages of restoration. I can't buy any more records because I have no place to put them. Conditions are critical. One of the reasons for moving my KLF-30s out of my room is that they took up so much space, you literally would have trouble walking. My new area for them is perfect. They would fill half the apartment with music. I just ordered speaker stands for the bookshelf speakers in my bedroom. After disposing of the table they're on now, it will free up a great deal of space. I also have to..I can't write this without bringing a tear to my eye--liquidate my Sansui collection. I'm just keeping the units I use and one extra one I can't part with. I already gave my Sansui 8 deluxe to a good friend as a Christmas gift. I just have to pack it correctly, which is not a small task. That thing is heavy. If i told someone to lift it without a warning about its weight, a hernia would be the least severe physical injury I would expect.[] Is anyone a fan of American dad? Remember the episode where Stan blew out his sphincter?

Let's not go too far. I didn't sell them. Just putting them in a larger area.

I found the primary cause of the irritating sound quality I was getting from my Klipsch KLF-30s. (This is also applies to my Epic CF-3 speakers.) It's something that was right under my nose but I didn't want to admit. Due to personal problems, I had to move from a house to an apartment. I couldn't deal with the idea that my room size was now too small for the KLF-30s.(Or my son's room for his CF-3s.) So basically, I can't turn up the volume enough to get the woofers into action without damaging my hearing. I either get a thin irritating horn sound or very loud volumes that are uncomfortable. These are big speakers and require a big room to open up. One can't sit three feet from the horns. So I had to do the unthinkable. I downsized to bookshelf speakers. My problems are gone. I really love those monsters but I have to face reality. They're simply not made for small rooms.

This would be ideal for me. I wish I knew somebody who could build some stands for a reasonable price. I've been checking Goodwill and other second hand stores for two stands about the right height that can support the weight. So far, no luck. I need something that's cheap. Even if I had woodbuilding skills, I'm in an apartment with no place to work. There are so many rules here that I can't even wash my car. The other day, I had to use a Toyota parking lot to put in a new break ligh bulb. It sounds absurd but I was having trouble getting the old bulb out from corrosion. My lease specifically forbids working on a car. But the manager is nice to me and gave me next door neighbors that let me play music at loud volums without complaining. I'm having a good time.[]

Moyay understands the CF-3s better than anyone I know. His various solutions to equalize the sound and tame the horn's sharpness really work. I would bi-amp my own if I had the money for another amplifier. My son is using them now and you can hear the resonance when he plays the music loud. One unexpected adjustment that improved the sound quality was a correct alignment of his phono cartridge. It is surprising how much more balanced the music sounds. It really almost eliminated a certain tinny, sharpness in the music reproduction. Since the music sounds more "full," he doesn't have to make it as loud. I"ve read about the importance of cartridge alignment but never experienced the radical difference in sound quality of a correctly aligned cartridge. I've also noticed with CDs, that a well mastered piece of music will sound wonderful through the CF-3s. As an example, I'll use the CD that came with the "Aqualung" box set. It doen't sound sharp or fatiguing. I'm also amazed that I hear instruments and sounds that I've never heard on any other mix of that album.

Very nice Marantz setup and very rare amplifier. Your system must sound fantastic. I had similar experiences at the local audio mart. At first, the salesperson turned up the subwoffer so high, I couldn't even hear the B&W speakers. When I asked him to turn it down, he seemed annoyed. Perhaps covering up the true sound of their system with loud booms from a sub impresses people. I couldn't believe how feeble the sound was from the B&Ws. I haven't heard anything come close to the sound quality of my KLFs driven by vintage equipment. A good tube amplifier might be another way to go.

I wrote comments about CDs a while ago and have since learned some things. There's a big difference in sound quality from a well engineered CD player than from an inexpensive mass market player. I never knew that people spent thousands on CD players. I am not saying that it's necessary to spend that much to get superior sound quality. But after some research, I found that better CD players have well designed DAC circuits. A few months ago, I bought a Grant Fidelidy Tube DAC, hooked it up to my Emotiva CD player and was startled by the improvement in sound quality. There was a clarity and refinement in the music that I never experienced from a CD before. A few months later, I bought a Grant Fidelity tube CD player and have never looked back. I'm finally into my CD collection and sometimes prefer the tube sound to my MC cartridge which can be a bit harsh at times. I finally understand why so many Klipsch owners like tubes. Horn type speakers just mate so well with a good tube setup. One day, if I can afford it, I would like to go completely to tubes. So, IMHO, the problem I was having with CD sound was with the equipment I was using.

That's a good one. It makes me think that many family members have no idea about the value of the equipment in their house. I know my parents gave away my grandmother's Fisher console tube unit when she had to go into a nursing home. Everyone was so distraut that they just wanted to get rid of all her possessions. But I'm happy I trained my son about the value of our equipment. I gave him my Epic CF-3 speakers with a restored Sansui receiver. He's only 17 but knows sound quality. He guards those speakers and won't let anybody near them.

Yeah, I agree. I've been to some estate sales and usually find junk but once found a nice casette deck in perfect condition. But it's true, if you make estate sale hunting full time work, you're more likely to find something of value.I think it's great that this guy found the Fortes because now he a Klipsch lover. Many people won't give them a chance until they hear the wonderful sound for themselves. Most of my Klipsch speakers were bought used at excellent prices, so I have no complaints.