stepher

Old thread, but thought I'd chime in in 2020.... Am original owner of a pair of KG2.5s that I use as my front mains coupled with some Bose 401 for side/rears and a Klipsch KSW-150. Recently updated the crossovers and installed a set of Crites Titanium tweeters (my process is documented here: Updating the X-Overs and Tweeters It was like getting new speakers. Great sound and very full and rich with the KSW-150. I'm in a townhome so this setup is more than enough to fill the space. I'm using an Onkyo TX-NR626 and am very pleased. Cheers....

I have been using an Aoyue 937+ digital controlled for over 5 yrs. (Came with an xtra heating element that I have yet had to use). Used it for redoing my Klipsch x-overs recently as well as small IC design/prototyping and receiver/subwoofer repairs. Compatible with Hakko 936 (937?) tips. Paid $50 new. This particular version may no longer be available (company may have gone more upscale/commercial) and/or may have been replaced by this one https://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-9378-Programmable-Digital-Soldering/dp/B00BSW69LI You may be able to find some used on ebay or AliExpress (if you don't mind waiting for delivery https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-aoyue-937.html I originally bought mine at SRA Soldering Products. Here's their current list of Aoyue products: https://sra-solder.com/soldering-equipment/soldering-stations Depending on your present and future soldering needs, finding a relatively inexpensive 60W soldering iron (as opposed to station) might serve your needs just fine. The brands others have mentioned (Weller and Hakko..not familiar with Pace) are also good suggestions. Cheers....

It could be old caps as @ngen33r stated. If the system has auto-turn on (using audio from the amp, which many subs have), if the audio detect circuit has gone haywire (bad caps, transistor issues, etc.), it may behave "squirrelly". Also take a close look at the solder connections at, and around, the connector. It may be that when the connector is plugged in, a good solder joint becomes really cold. I had this happen on my KSW-150 (and a Sony 5.1 receiver). Over time, heat can bring out the worst in a perfectly good solder joint. On the Sony it was the output transistors and must have been due to heat. On the sub, first it was a "scritching" noise which turned out to be in the low-level amp section (thought the spkr itself had blown a voice coil And then it was a hum which was a cold solder joint on the linear p/s filter caps. Often the shortest distance between 2 points is not a straight line. Cheers....

I typically have set the receiver LFE x-over @ 70-80Hz making the woofers a bit more midrange. I did the comparison of new vs old when I started the tweeter upgrade. I could tell there was a nice difference tho it wasn't striking. However, once I got both installed and set the system back up into "normal" mode the differences were definitely noticeable, and in a good way. So, yes, I am very much enjoying the upgrade! Funny thing is that with the tinnitus I've developed in my old age (from Stones, Jethro Tull, Fleetwood Mac, etc. concerts in my younger days), I figured the subdued high end was, literally, in my head. So, being able to hear any kind of difference is greatly appreciated (and, kind of a surprise I am now listening to a lot of my music again and certainly noticing nuances I have not heard in a long while. Overall, I am pleased and gratified that I went for the upgrade.... Cheers....

I'm actually not too worried abt "burn in" time...except as it pertains to my ears (I kinda use "burn in" as a euphemism for my ears becoming adjusted to the sound). Maybe there is...maybe there isn't. I'll just keep listening and when I feel things are settled in (meaning ME) I will listen more closely to see what differences I notice. More interesting to me is the fact that the 20+ yr. old "woofers" now reach 10 Hz lower in their response and why that might be.

This is a curious question for those who may be more knowledgeable about this than I...... I bought my receiver (Onkyo TX-NR626) about 5 yrs. ago. When I did an eq testing on it (Audyssey MultiEQ in the receiver) then, it showed the -3db low end of the KG2.5s @ 50Hz. Made sense since that was where the spkrs. were spec'd. Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago when I replaced the x-over caps and did a re-eq. Again, KG2.5s were shown to have a -3db point @ 50Hz (didn't really expect any changes). So, a few days ago I replaced the tweeters and yesterday did another re-eq. Interestingly, this time it showed the low end -3db @ 40Hz for the KG2.5s. Other than the x-over upgrades 3 weeks ago and tweeter upgrade (diaphragms only), nothing has changed. The sprks were repositioned to within 1/4" of where they were (relative to the wall behind them) before any upgrades. And, while things may have changed (but not much) in the living room between the time of when I bought the receiver and re-eq'd after the x-over upgrade, nothing has changed (except maybe the weather?) between the x-over mods and the tweeter upgrades. Only thing that might be of significance....When I did the x-overs, I noticed 1 of the 8 screws that mounted the front panel to the cabinet had stripped its threads (actually, the 1"x1" wood furring strip had developed a crack across the screw hole thus making it really easy to remove the screw). At that time, I reglued and clamped the piece back in place. Then, when I did the tweeters recently I drilled a new screw hole (actually kind of redrilled the screw hole in a slight different angle away from the crack) which tightened down the screw. Any insight on this? Could it be the new electrolytic NPOs have "settled in" (doubt the mylars I replaced would have anything to do with the low end since they're in the tweeter circuit)? Thx. Quick update on perception of the new tweeters...I have found the spkrs a bit "brighter" so I turned down the treble 2 db (only allows 2 db increments/decrements Will continue to listen and observe a while longer....

OK. Had a chance to complete my tweeter upgrades yesterday. Obviously, they'll need more time to burn/settle in, but here are my initial reactions (more later after I've gotten used to the new parts). My music sources included older analog material, as well as, digitally mastered recordings, all from disk. Music style was both rock and roll and smooth jazz/new age (don't have any classical in my collection). A couple of folks here used the term "sparkle" to describe how the new tweeters would sound. Not sure exactly what that means, but I did find my high end/mids more "filled in" than with the poly tweeters. I guess it gave it more "breadth" of sound in that range. More specifically, some of the good (if there is such a thing) harmonics helped to better define things like cymbals, snares, bongo-like instruments and even the sound of air blowing across the flute. I also heard more guitar fingering in some of the songs. Triangle and chimes were a bit more pronounced. If that's what people mean by "sparkle", then yes, I got that Overall, the improvement was not very pronounced, but enuf in areas that I noticed. Highs were, indeed, sweet and smooth. Like I said, tho, more time is needed so the tweeters can burn in and I can become more accustomed to the new sound. Then I'll report back with an updated experience.

UPDATE (4/3/20): Actually, I'm going to search for some PC S/W and see if I can use the setup mic that came with the receiver to develop some EQ curves. Will take a bit of time, but who doesn't have time these days ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry. Don't have that kind of equipment to do that sort of thing. I just use the mic and eq s/w provided by the receiver and do finer adjustments by ear. As for the sub cross, I have set the LFE in the rcvr at 80Hz to make the 6" drivers in the 2.5s a bit more midrange. Kind of like the sound.

Appreciate the feedback from your experience. Did both x-overs at the same time (becuz I figured after 20 yrs. it was prob'ly due anyways) and was pleased with the results (I'm running an Onkyo TX-NR626 and did a re-multieq followed by a manual adjustment after the new caps were installed). I'm hoping to get to the tweeters sometime this week or next and am looking forward to listening to the speakers with the Tis (will do a re-multieq then, as well). As mentioned in my previous post, will come back here and provide my feedback. BTW - Both KG2.5s are my main speakers (don't have a big enuf room to do justice to Heresys) without a center channel. Using Bose 401s as rear/sides and a Klipsch KSW-150 (10", 150W) sub to fill in the low end. Be smart. Be safe. Stay healthy.....cheers...

Just a quick update..... Bought the Ti tweeters. Figured can't go wrong either way. Have not yet installed them (who knew I would have to schedule specific time for this with the way things are right now I''ll post back once they're installed and I've had a chance to burn them in and listen to them. Be smart. Stay safe. Keep healthy.....cheers....

Not to change the focus of this thread but rather to bring a more philosophical perspective.... "A man with no watches never knows the time. A man with 2 watches is never sure". (unsure of original source)....and related is Occam's Razor which, at it's most basic, "keep it simple". In essence, there appears to be a number of variables going on here, many of which interact and/or impact the others. I commend you on your effort to improve the sound of your system with the new additions, but I don't envy the effort (and frustrations) in getting it right, again. BTW - Always wanted bigger Klipsch (would have settled for Heresys). Alas, never lived in a place to do them justice (had to settle for going over to a freind's house who did buy them after my recommendation). Wish I had technical insight to help you out. I'm an engineer but not my area of expertise. Best of luck in sorting it out. I am envious of your audio environment....cheers....

UPDATE (3/19/20) Wanted to add a link I just found on Quora (how timely It's goes to a paper from Dartmouth that discusses using uninsulated stranded wire to create Litz wire. This could be cheaper and much easier than braiding together separate single-strand wires to do this. There's more than a bit of math in the paper that might not be of much interest to you, but some of the narrative may offer you some really good insight if you are a "roll-your-own" kind-of technician. To quote the 1st paragraph of the conclusion: "Stranded wire can be a useful low-cost alternative to high-cost litz wire. Both the cost of insulating individual strands, and the cost of terminating the litz wire can be avoided or decreased." ...and here's the link: https://engineering.dartmouth.edu/inductor/papers/stranded.pdf I don't have a schematic and am not familiar with this particular product (I own a KSW-150 which has a linear p/s...much easier to work on There are various forms of SMPS, one which you mention: PWM. There are other methods, as well. In fact, PWM can look like a variable frequency implementation. Current IC technology easily allows SMPS to hit well beyond 1 MHz (some go to 6MHz and beyond). The best suggestion is to use a frequency counter. Use care when setting it up both for voltage (which could blow out the front end of the counter) and trigger levels (since PWM signals can sometimes appear a bit strange). Also, if you want to "roll your own", there are websites and YouTube vids that can show you how to take insulated single strand copper wire and braid it so it will work as Litz wire. Here's a few to get you started....Cheers.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litz_wire

Maybe. Maybe not. I read that you went with OEM specs, and that was the right thing to do. I wanted to make sure others don't get the idea that substituting without fully understanding how something is used in a circuit design can lead to serious problems. SMPSs (Switch Mode Power Supplies) typically output DC for the amp, and that may sound straightforward. Getting to that point is not. An SMPS is a complex design. It takes AC (110 or 220) from the wall, converts it to high voltage DC, turns it back to AC (really more oscillating DC/digital), reduces it, rectifies and then filters before it goes to the load (the amp, in this case). Oh, and don't forget the regulation part, which is a feedback circuit to the input to maintain output voltage(s) with both line and load changes, and more. If one is not well versed in the design or, a least, the circuit operation of an SMPS, messing around with anything in the circuits can cause catastrophic problems. As @efzauner stated abt measuring inductance, that is only part of the equation. The wire resistance (due to skin effect) also plays an important role and failure to consider that can have a serious impact on circuit performance. You mentioned harmonic distortion or extra ripple. True, except that the ripple can be enuf to impact sound quality and/or tear the circuit apart. And distortion can come in the form of clipping due to the power supply not being fully functional. You're right. It may not matter under certain circumstances. At low volumes...hopefully not. However, because of the typical power of a subwoofer amp (50W and up) and the frequency range in which the subwoofer operates, it may matter a lot. Having said all that, it's possible that the Litz wire was a cost consideration. If a number of other coils/inductors/transformers in the p/s design used Litz wire, then using it in the coil referenced here may have been only an incremental cost, as opposed to having to order a small quantity of solid copper wire at a higher price, and using copper wire may not make a noticeable difference. On the other hand, would you want to have to face a customer who returned a unit you repaired that worked for only a short time and then went ballistic again. There goes whatever profit you might have made the first time (I used to repair TVs, stereos, etal when I was in high school and college). Whatever choice is made, be ready to deal with possible consequences. Cheers....

wrt to rewinding a coil..... FYI, I am not a design engineer, but do have an engineering degree with a concentration in computer architecture. First off, there is an important reason for using Litz wire in the windings of inductors used at high (i.e. radio) frequencies which would include switching power supplies. It has to do with what's called "skin effect" and "proximity losses" (Litz Wire Info (on Wiki)). It means that the effective resistance of the wire is increased (which can reduce the "q factor") which can cause all sorts of other problems, the least of which is reduced efficiency of the circuit it's in. Not using Litz wire where it was used in an original design is setting things up for imminent (and possibly, catastrophic) failure again soon. Having said that, while Litz wire can be expensive depending on the guage used, there are articles and websites that discuss creating your own Litz wire out of fairly normal enameled copper wire. Invest some time and save a few bucks...and do it right Good luck and cheers......

Appreciate the feedback. I have been very tempted to make the upgrade. I've heard mostly good stuff from other folks with whom I've spoken, but I've also read on other forums that some folks thought upgrade was barely noticeable and not really worth it. BTW - my polys are in perfect condition. @wuzzzer What was it specifically you liked abt the mod? @geoff. "...grabs you by the boo-boo!..." wtf Good suggestion (not abt the "boo-boo" I can also sell the polys as a replacement for someone who needs them, or sell the tis if I decide I'm not impressed. Sounds like a win-win. I'll give a bit more thought and see if anyone has any input. Thx....

I had asked this question some time back when I thought I had KG2.2s with phenolic cone tweeters (don't ask.... Now that my brain is back in operation and I know I have KG2.5s with a polymer tweeter.... Curious if anyone has any insight as to whether it makes sense to move to a titanium tweeter (as in a Crites replacement). Would the highs be "sweeter" or have more clarity? Is it even worth it for these speakers? BTW - I recently replaced the caps in my x-over, fwiw Thx in advance.....

UPDATE (4/3/20): Still hope everyone is doing well and finding ways not to succumb to "cabin fever" 😵 Since I did a tweeter upgrade recently, it gave me a chance to take another pic of the x-over board showing how I fixed the loose coil using tie wraps. I have added that to the collection of photos below....Cheers.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hope everyone is hunkering down and hanging in there with all this coronavirus stuff going on. Be smart and stay healthy!!! I finally got around to updating my 20+ yr. old KG2.5s. I opened the spkrs. to verify cap values and found they were KG2.5s, not KG2.2s as I had come to believe for some reason (see TL;DR below...it was a definite "D'oh!" moment). Anyway, now that I had verified parts, I ordered them and they arrived a few days later. I set aside some time to do the upgrades. I planned to do 1 spkr. at a time since the new caps would be combinations to equal the original values AND some were axial (leads on either end) instead of radial (both leads on same end). This also meant drilling some new holes and figuring out how to secure the now dual-cap configs. I prob'ly could have found actual values but my research into that meant buying more (in some cases, much, much more) expensive upgraded caps (Mundorf, Solen, etc.) and spending nearly 1/2 (or more) of the price of the spkrs. Just didn't think it prudent for these spkrs. Ended up with Dayton caps for the tweeter circuit and Parts Express-branded caps for the electrolytics. TL;DR - Not remembering my spkr models - When I started the upgrade I opened 1 spkr. (configuration is a heavy plastic front panel with both woofers(?), the tweeter and the x-over PCB mounted to it which is then mounted into the front of the box with 8 wood screws) and removed the x-over board. That's when I noticed a couple of things wrt the model. I saw KG2.5 printed on the PCB (possible explanation for cap values I didn't expect), and my first thought was maybe this was a mfg. error and why I bought them (KG2.2) at a fairly good price way back when. Then I looked at the part number printed on the woofer (and I use that term loosely). It was not the one supposedly used for the KG2.2s. So, out to the garage I ran to find the original box and, sure enuf, it said KG2.5. Then I realized I should look at the back of the spkrs. Once again, it was confirmed they were KG2.5s. My guess is my confusion came from the fact that I had collected a fair amt of KG2.2 tech docs and found very little for the KG2.5s. Somewhere along the way my brain decided to "remember" the spkrs were KG2.2s. Go figure.... Performing the mods/upgrades - Doing the actual mods was fairly straight forward but required some adaptations for the new caps. Original caps in the woofer circuit were unbranded radial electrolytic NPOs: 25 uF and 18 uF both @ 100V and 10% tolerance. I replaced them with axial (100V, 10%) 10 uF + 15 uF for the 25 uF, and 10 uF + 8 uF for the 18 uF cap. Pretty much a swap except for double the parts and axial vs. radial. In the tweeter circuit were, what I believe to be, mylar caps (usually fairly stable) at 8 uF and 4 uF, 100V. No idea of the tolerance. I replaced those using 4 uF caps. I simply used one 4 uF cap for the 4 uF replacement (duh! , and paralleled two 4 uF caps to replace the 8 uF. The new caps are 250V (only voltage available and a nice margin anyway) @ 5% (I would expect an improvement here over the old ones, tho I have no idea). Both old and new caps are axial, with the new ones a bit longer. Both sets of caps required new holes to be drilled to solder in the leads. I initially considered using a non-corrosive adhesive, but opted for tie wraps instead. Thru-holes were drilled in the PCB to provide mounting for the tie wraps. Given the caps were now double stacked (and because of the limited space available due to the new the 4 uF and "8 uF" caps grouped into a 3-cap arrangement, so to speak, having to fit into a smaller 2-cap space), I felt the tie wraps would offer better security and stability. Two of the original coils/inductors were constructed on plastic bobbins with a plastic insert pin (and some glue) used to hold the coils to the PCB. One of them came loose somewhere along the way and I was able to use tie wraps, as well. to resecure it to the PCB. I drilled holes in the PCB for this and used the holes already formed in the bobbins as secure mounting points (See last pic). Results of the upgrade - I've been using the upgraded spkrs for a couple of weeks at this point and I have to say I notice a better clarity on the mids and upper range. I sense there is a bit of improvement (maybe more of a restoration) for the low end, but my ears aren't sensitive enuf to really tell. Besides, I have a Klipsch 10", 150W subwoofer to take care of that so I set the receiver LFE crossover to be a bit higher (80Hz vs. 50Hz) to take a bit of the stress off the "woofers" I also detect better sonics out of the spkrs and restored clarity in the "voices" of instruments. Overall, I'm very happy. Total cost was ~$25 and a couple of hours of my time (Tie wraps were "free" cuz I had them in my parts bin So, enuf words. Time for pics. This first pic is the original x-over PCB before I swapped out caps. The 2 orange upright caps on the left side of the board are the 25 uF (left) and 18 uF (right). The 2 burnt orange caps in the center are the 8 uF (left) and 4 uF (right). You can also see how everything(!) is mounted to the front panel. Tweeter is underneath the x-over board. 2nd pic shows the completed upgrade and x-over reinstalled. Note the new mounting holes drilled to accommodate the larger, axial electrolytic caps. Not as obvious are the new holes drilled to accommodate the slightly longer tweeter caps. Pic 3 shows the tie wraps used for the double-stacked electrolytics and how they were oriented to make them fit. This pic shows tie wraps and new lead holes (~1/4" past the old holes) for the 8 uF (left in the group) and 4 uF ("nestled" in on the right) caps. Note that all 3 caps are tied in a group. Here's a pic of my fix for the loose coil. You can see the hole (one on the other side, as well, but out of view) I drilled for the tie wraps.

Appreciate the feedback. The problem is that the angle of the drilling followed by the original installation of the screw caused the wood to crack right across the hole and left a triangular piece held on at one end by very little wood. I'd' put up a pic of it but I already closed it back up. I still need to replace the xover caps so will try to remember to post a photo of it then. 1 thought is to cut and remove the short section of wood and replace it to create a new hole. Another would be to use glue and a couple of screws to reattach the cracked piece and hope that it holds...tho, I would be doubtful on that. A 3rd one would be to try and drill a new hole in the same place but in at an opposite angle (towards the outside). This last one may be the easiest and least messy way. Never thought of the 2.2s as a repurposing of in-wall speakers. Now that you mention it, tho, I can see how that would be. The front panel has both 6" 'woofers', tweeter and xover mounted on it. would be pretty easy to remove the front panel assembly and mount it somewhere else. Not sure what happens to the spkrs without the box to tune the sound. Thx and cheers....

That was kind of my 1st thought. What I haven't chk'd more closely is if any glue was used to help hold the furring strip to the side panel of the spkr which makes removal of the cut piece a bit more challenging. My other thought was to try and drill a hole directed at an opposite angle of the current one and see if I can get the screw to grab. I'll prob'ly wait to get serious abt fixing the physical damage once I finish fixing the electrical damage I'm abt to inflict on the speaker xover Appreciate the help in spite of my misposting here....cheers....

Something abt the shortest distance between 2 points is very rarely a straight line I'm finally getting around to replacing the caps in my KG2.2 x-overs. Since I'm the original owner, the box interiors have not seen the light of day for 20+ years. So I opened them up the other day to verify the caps I need to get. The front speaker panel (plastic) has 8 screws that attach it to the main case. Most of the screws required some reasonable effort to unscrew them. However, 1 screw came out too easily. I thought that odd so out of curiosity I attempted to drive the screw back in only to discover it was stripped. Once I removed the panel I could see that the screw was originally driven in at enuf of an angle that it headed toward the inside part of the furring/mounting strip and cracked ~1" section of wood (the piece is still attached, but barely). Any suggestions on how to fix this without affecting the acoustics of the box? I have a couple of ideas that may work, but would appreciate input so I can avoid making it worse. Thx. A second, sort-of-related question....I'm also considering replacing the tweeters (original and working fine) with Crites titanium versions. Any pros and/or cons for someone having done something of the sort. Is it really worth it for these speakers? Again, thx. A 3rd related question.....(more of "A man with no watches doesn't know the time. A man with 2 is never sure.") I have xover schematics (both are "B" revisions) for both the KG2.2. and KG2.5. The 2.2 schematic shows 25/25 uF for the 2 non-polarized electrolytics while the 2.5 shows 25/18 uF. However, when I actually opened up my 2.2 box, the xover has the 25/18 caps installed. Curious if anyone knows abt the why for this. My understanding is that the 2.5 uses a different (more recent?) woofer than the 2.2 and, while the tweeters are the same model, mine supposedly has a phenolic diaphragm and the 2.5 is poly. Be interested in any insight here. Appreciate any feedback...cheers....

My absolute humblest apologies I've also been looking at tube amps and must have been browsing this forum and put out my posting without realizing where I was. I will repost it in a better place and, as punishment, I will not listen to my Klipsch for 2 days. May also explain why I have not received any replies.... Cheers....

Incorrect forum posting removed by author....apologies....

KG2.2B Crossover Schematic.pdf

Just wanted to follow up on my interest in getting tech info on my KG2.2 (or KG2.5, if that's what you have) speaker crossovers. For anyone else looking for this info, I actually found it in this forum in another thread (YaaaY!). Here's the link: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/146749-help-with-kg-25-crossovers/ For better or worse, now I'm a man with "more than 2 watches" (See previous posting)..... Cheers.....

Always happy to help out. Many people have been kind enuf to help me over the years when I've run into (what I feel are) enigmas, so it's always nice to be able to give back to the community. Cheers....