Taz

I know I'm getting older and forget what I was going to say. Even if I know it was funny.

You're not alone. At least you did figure it out. Won't go into my BONE HEAD moves. Take too much space.

Wow! 13 posts and 6 of them on this thread. Me thinks you done more to yourself here then anyone. Don't see where Jim done you wrong.

The Coast Hwy is great. Beautiful scenery along the way. I wouldn't stop at the Trees of Mystery though. Took the kids there and it was a total waste of time. And the people who worked there came off as quite RUDE. If you happen to come to Orick Ca. you might want to slow down. The elk have been known to bed down on the highway sometimes. The Columbia gorge is nice. East of Portland. If you do decide to check it out, Multnomah Falls offers a chance for some exercise and is enjoyable. A little further up the road east is Hood River which has become a mecca for wind surfers. But these are quite a way out of your proposed trip.

Time to either renew, or change to different protection. Have used McAfee but wonder what else might be better, or worse. I would rate my computer skills as not good. Any opinions? john

I got a quarter. But I don't do pay pal.

These guys are way more into things here then I am. That said I run a pair of Khorns. I have on my rack a Marantz 2500 that has been restored. Along with some other SS equip that has been serviced. So what do I listen to? Some old tube amps and a tube receiver. Circa 50's-60's. Nothing over 30w a channel Liked the SS stuff, but like the tubes better. Class mate in the 70's told us that tubes were better for music. Guess he was right (In my opinion)

OMG. Can't un-see whats already been seen, AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I did not expect that.

I believe Roseburg in Douglas County has little crime compared to other area's of the country. Yet I believe most of us here do not favor gun control. I believe you may have it backwards.

Yep. I still ask that the original request be respected.

In response to Islander. No apologize needed. I believe if we had not been able to control the emotions that such a topic brings out in us, it would have been locked. I appreciate the links. I believe them to be informative. And they bring up questions that I need to search out for myself. "You're also right about the neighbour with the cottage. He showed no common sense at all. He had no excuse for keeping a deadly weapon in deadly (loaded) condition. Good luck was all that kept that incident from becoming a tragedy." I've taught my kids from an early age that all guns are to be considered loaded. And Treated as such. Some people just don't have that sense. I'm sure that I would not have returned to your neighbors cottage either. All firearms, Even if you have just checked are to be considered loaded. I do keep loaded guns within reach. An unloaded gun is usually useless if you do need a loaded one. Kind of like insurance, you HOPE you never need it. I have received death threats toward my family as well as myself. When this comes from a Veteran, or anyone else, I have to take such threats seriously. "It is certain that when you combine guns and alcohol that the situation becomes much more dangerous than when everyone is in their right mind. I could tell you about seeing holes in the walls of a hunting lodge caused by a drunken hunter trying to kill a fly with a shotgun, but you'd think I was making that up. There was an awful lot of drinking in that farming community where I grew up, and car crashes were not rare. If the power went out at night, and there was no blizzard or windstorm, we'd assume someone we knew had hit a power pole with his car. We were often right." Alcohol and drugs increase the danger of most activities. I do not suspect that you are making anything up. Part of my job when I was working was answering the Suicide Hot Line. Got a lot of Drunks calling. But some of the calls were cry's for help that needed immediate welfare checks by police. john

In this world where some people can live just about anywhere they might. I have never considered moving to either Canada or Britain. Just not a big fan of either country. At the same time I choose not to live in some of the states or communities in USA. Those that are happy where they are at should stay there. Suicide by gun slightly takes the lead over non firearm related suicide. Dead is Dead no matter how it is done. Having worked on Locked Psych unit and PTSD unit for our Veterans I have known patients that committed suicide while both in and out of the hospital. I do not recall any patients that committed suicide with firearms. Hangings, Yes. Drug over dose, Yes. Mixing drugs with alcohol, Yes. And of course using just alcohol. If you take away the bridges and someone want's to off them self, THEY WILL find another way. The sad thing about the Roseburg V.A. Hospital is apparent the lack of concern of concern for what happens off hospital grounds. And taking staff to task that try to find a way to help these Veterans. I am sorry about the trauma that it must have caused you when your dad pulled the trigger. Did he maybe think that the gun was unloaded? Either way it seems he learned. As for the kid that picked up and shot the 22. I believe in teaching kids early how to use firearms. Seems this Canadian did not have sense enough to educate his kids. I also taught my kids that touching the firearms, even their own would result in discipline. However we would shoot when the kids wanted to, if I could arrange it. Never had any problems. As for your Brother. That gun did not shoot itself. Either your brother, or someone else fired the weapon. That is were the blame should be placed. If you are happy living in Canada, it is good. I hope you live a long and Happy life. I choose to live in Douglas County Oregon. Some of us believe differently then you do. Again, I respectfully request that we do not name the POS's that commit these horrible crimes. The news coverage has certainly added to the infamy of the criminal. They seem to not be mentioning his name as often. But the continuous repeating of this in the news is angering not only some of us in Roseburg/Douglas county Or. But those from neighboring areas also. Even though news organizations sensationalize things so their ratings will go up. It's not right. And in some cases amounts to no less then torture.

What? Why? Is he going to take away guns while he is there? Is your sheriff going to refuse to meet with him? They don't have to meet with him if they don't want to and there is always a peaceful protest where ANY president travels, they set up areas for it. People can complain about whatever they want to. Living in Douglas County, My perception is a rural area where a lot of people believe very strongly in their right to own firearms. A politician has made public his desire for more gun control. Stated he will use this and future Tragedy's to further this desire of his. Then decides he will come for a private visit with the victims and families. Fine. But he has to know that he is coming to an area of the country where a lot of the people disagree with his view's. I seen a lot of signs today. I did not see any that welcomed him though. I think it would have went over better with a lot less publicity. But that is just my opinion. I'm sure others opinions will vary. I don't know about the Sheriff meeting him or not. I believe this is correct.

It's my Belief that it's all Politics. I just don't see him getting the press for going to Chicago that he is getting with our local Tragedy!

What? Why? Is he going to take away guns while he is there? Is your sheriff going to refuse to meet with him? They don't have to meet with him if they don't want to and there is always a peaceful protest where ANY president travels, they set up areas for it. People can complain about whatever they want to. The president has made it clear that he want's more gun control. This is community that probably has higher gun ownership then many many community's. He could have came without the publicity that he seems to crave. Seems like this is just another photo op for him. I wouldn't put it past him to take some "Selfies with victims. My opinion is that he has POOR TASTE AND POOR JUDGEMENT. I realize we all have our own opinions and do not believe the same. Regardless of how this goes down. I'd like to see restraint here on the Forum.

I can't speak for everybody in my community. However those I have spoke to, both men and women wish The president would not come to town tomorrow. We don't need him using our community's Tragedy for his Political Agenda. Local news rag says there is to be peaceful protests regarding his invasion of our community. And that firearms are optional.

News press conference just now. Shooter was only identified as "The shooter". Will it help? Maybe. Will it hurt. I myself can not see that it will.

Pretty much. I haven't been able to find a legal shoulder fired stinger missile yet, but we freely give them to other people around the world. California has many restrictions on named firearms. Several of which I own and sometimes carry. PIA when I forget that Calif does not allow the firearm I'm carrying and I get close to the border and have to turn around. Don't go there much anymore. Do the restricted guns listed fall within certain catagories? Semi-auto pistols? High capacity semi-autos? "Assault" rifles? I remember hearing my brother say he was picking up some stuff before the laws went into effect there, but I cannot remember what it was. It seemed that it centered around what the gun was able to hold in the magizine. Certain semi auto pistols, rifles, and shotguns were banned by name. Magazines that hold more then 10 rounds. Center fire rifles that hold more then 10 rounds internally. Pretty much anything they consider an assault rifle. 50 cal BMG rifles, even single shots. My shotgun that has a pistol grip. I believe any rifle or shotgun with a pistol grip or other undesirable features. I know Brookings Or. seemed to have a lot of Calif. rejects as it is just north of the Calif. border. oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/awguid... Where is that one written? Dave Dave. For the sake of discussion. If I were to come at you with a baseball bat with intent to do you bodily harm, do you believe you need written permission to defend yourself? Let me be perfectly clear that this is only for the sake of giving you something to think about. No intent on my part. john

I agree. I think the media has a lot to do with it. There's no media sensation when a large city has 200 murders a year. But a psychotic shooter gets notoriety from a mass shooting. The mass shootings are just a small fraction of the murders in this country. About 1% isn't it? Then what's the problem? Why is it news? If you define a mass shooting as one in which four or more are shot in one incident we average more than one a day. Seems like it would be no big deal. It either isn't a problem or is a problem with apparently no solution. No one has posted, unless I missed it, a solution. Well that may be overly simplistic. Restoring the family unit and banning abortion have been suggested as having a correlation. That Professor from the University of Alabama seems to suggest that one of the motivators is notoriety, at least based on some of the titles of his publications, none of which I read. Is there a problem? It is Taz's town, maybe we should ask him. Is there a problem? The Sheriff there didn't think so, it is the cost of doing business in a free society according to him. Maybe that is just the answer. How about a ban on naming the perpetrator of any mass shooting? All I ask is for Volunteer non disclosure of perpetrator and future perpetrators. I asked for it here, and I have asked for it from news agency's. Tonight while the news was on. 2 programs that mentioned the tragedy and did not name the shooter. Will it help? I don't know. But I can't see any harm. "Is there a problem? It is Taz's town, maybe we should ask him. Is there a problem? The Sheriff there didn't think so, it is the cost of doing business in a free society according to him. Maybe that is just the answer." Never seen the present gun laws to cause increased violence around here. It don't worry me when I see people openly carrying their sidearms. I've done the same at outdoor concerts. Only 1 time did someone get concerned. And they gave me a staff badge. Like all communities we do have violence. And occasionally murders. There have been murders since the time of Cain and Able. They still adversely affect families and communities. And yes, when someone commits such a heinous act it is a problem. I don't care if it is in my community or yours. Random acts of violence are very difficult to prevent. And if you do something that prevents a tragedy, where is the Proof that a tragedy was prevented. The Sheriff has my full support in his actions in this case. I don't see a problem with the way the Sheriffs department does business most of the time. Well I am listening? What is the solution?Welcome to the forum! Thank You! I was hoping you would tell me. Well, as I said, we are being assaulted, so let's devise a defense to at least mitigate the damage. I think we could all agree that schools seem to be the favorite target right now. So let's devise a defense to keep our children safe, shall we? I propose immediate defensive measures to include additional police resources. Yes, defend the schools with armed guards. Permanently? Perhaps no. But at least until we can get our footing and identify what our issues are so that we can eventually work towards a workable solution. How do we fund this effort? Well our government spends billions on needless crap every year. I'm sure we can rummage up a few billion to finance this program. Some might see armed guards at our schools as a drastic action. I would like to point out that we guard our courthouses with armed guards and metal detectors. We guard our state legislative buildings with armed guards. We guard our airports. Heck, I've even seen police officers sitting in their cars at road construction sites. Now tell me, are our children any less valuable than these people? My child certainly is not. It's a start. It's not necessarily the final result. And frankly, it's better than what we are doing now. sounds bout right. welcomeIt is simple. Arm the kids. Teach them gun safety and marksmanship in grades 1, 2 and 3. Start arming them in 4th, 5th and 6th. Instead of fire drills, you conduct shooter drills. By the time they are in Jr. and high school it would be the last place a crazy gunman would show up. They will have to concentrate on churchs, movie theaters and old folks homes. Kids who did well in marksmanship can get jobs sitting in churches, theaters and retirement homes ready to pounce.It is a win-win. Keeps gun makers employed, kids learn learn math skills re: balastics, creates jobs, and the top shooters can compete against other schools. I think you could probably fund the whole thing by cutting just a sport or two. In Texas our solution in this last legislature was to arm teachers and allow folks to openly carry guns on their person. They need to think bigger in my opinion. I assume this was in jest. I hope so. But, in case it is not in jest....I wouldn't want to train young kids to kill people. Teaching 7 year old how to kill another human may be the most heinous crime against humanity that I can imagine. The "Boy Soldiers" of the Congo comes to mind. I'm sure this was just sarcasm. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Teaching kids to kill people is not the answer. But I strongly encourage teaching kids to be able to defend themselves. My Daughter learned to shoot at 5 years of age. I believe my son was 6. While in grade school they could shot nickel sized groups at 100 yards. One time my kids were home alone and someone keep calling and hanging up. When we got home both kids were in our bedroom, in the corner where I kept my guns. They knew better then to touch the guns. But if someone had broken in and approached the kids I'm sure they would have defended themselves. I'm also sure that this would have caused mental health issues for them. My kids had their own firearms from Grade school own. Gifts from myself and other family members. Some people will probably think it wrong that I taught the kids to shoot at such an early age. Or that I allowed them to have their own firearms. But I have never been sorry I did. The kids learned to respect firearms at an early age. Never got into any trouble with their firearms, or mine.

Pretty much. I haven't been able to find a legal shoulder fired stinger missile yet, but we freely give them to other people around the world. California has many restrictions on named firearms. Several of which I own and sometimes carry. PIA when I forget that Calif does not allow the firearm I'm carrying and I get close to the border and have to turn around. Don't go there much anymore.

Bye Still here? Thought you said "So.... I'm bowing out of this "debate" Because it's making my eyeball get a headache from stupidity, arrogance, and the inability for factual dialogue to take place." You might be arguing about guns. But that want the premise of the thread. The country is creating more sociopathic killers than statistics would predict for a rich country. The question is why is this happening, and of course how do we change it. We have an extraordinary tolerance for school shootings. What are we doing wrong? they shot his *** as soon as they could or more would have died. Thank god the good guys had gunsthis is ludicrous- gun nuts still skip over the point. I thought good guys with guns on site would prevent the shootings?I thought gun free zones were the problem?! Here "good guys with guns" were there and it did NOT prevent anything. Whatever the hell that is? Show me two guys with guns... Who's the good guy? Have you ever served in the military? I'm guessing not as there are standing orders on separate storage of arms and ammunition at military bases. You will not see people serving there carrying around loaded rifles, etc..According to the current US President the mass-murder that occurred on that horrific day at that base was merely 'workplace violence'. Again--- it was workplace violence... The shooting was a place of significance to the shooter. Guns Being present on a military base did not sway his decision. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk I thought the subject of the thread was Mass Killings - You Get What You Want in Society As stated by the OP. Personally I don't think anyone here wants Mass Killings To DUI****** discussion is a start. Getting criminals off the hook is not a solution for any of societies problems. Although the money may be good.

bearingarms.com/yes-concealed-carriers-have-stopped-mass-shootings/ For whatever bizarre reason, gun control proponents enjoy periodically trotting out the claim that concealed carriers have never stopped a mass shooting incident. The claim is of course a bald-faced lie, and the most recent proof of that being the Clackamas (OR) Mall shooting in December, where concealed carrier Nick Meli drew his weapon when he encountered the masked shooter. Meli did not fire his .40 S&W Glock 22, even though he had the shooter’s head lined up in his sights as the shooter worked to clear his jammed weapon. Instead—and contrary to the of-stated hysteria of how gun-grabbers assert concealed carriers would act in such a situation—Meli decided not to immediately fire, fearing he might hit an innocent bystander. Instead, he moved to get into a better position. It is believed that the mall shooter glanced up and saw Meli moving to cover as he brought his weapon back into action. Fearing that he was about to be taken, he instead chose to use his next bullet to commit suicide. Meli’s actions are mentioned as one of nine potential mass shootings cut short by a concealed carrier in a surprisingly popular BuzzFeed post circulating today, which seems to have been culled from lists previously circulating around the Internet, some featuring as few as four incidents, some feature as many as 15. Anti-gun Democrats of course, seek to dispute these successful stops by applying absurd qualifiers about who who really “counts” as a concealed carrier, excluding of-duty cops and military veterans, or asserting that shootings were over because a shooter was taken down as he moved from one target to another. For the serially dishonest, it’s all about maintaining the narrative, no matter how devious they much be to maintain it. In the end, we know the truth. The majority of mass shootings end when the shooter is taken down by someone with a gun, or they see someone with a gun maneuvering on their position, and then commit suicide to avoid being taken alive. It doesn’t matter to the prospective mass shooter if the good guy with a gun has a badge and arrives ten minutes late, or if he is a concealed carrier who happens to be on-scene before he can empty the first magazine at innocent victims, just that a good guy has a gun, and that his uncontested rampage is over. Good guys with weapons are the only thing that stops bad guys with weapons. That dynamic will never change.

Like England, Germany, and Japan? Makes ya shudder.Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk England requested the loan of American citizen's guns during WW2. They PROMISED to return them after the war. Did not keep their word. Destroyed the firearms. Germany one of the main instigators of WW2 as was Japan. In this mobile world we can pretty much choose where in the world we want to live. You sound dissatisfied. Are you looking to immigrate to a country more in line with your beliefs? That's a myth. For whatever reason, we want to perceive Europe as being more "civilized" than us. Take a look at their track-record. Agree with you Jeff Schools are involved because many of these shooters are disenchanted teenagers. That's where they go to express themselves - i.e., to shoot all the people they hate every day. Males have more testosterone than females. That one's a no-brainer. The age group is very narrow because most people grow into adulthood and adjust more normally to dealing with frustration and anger. I don't know whether it's true that most have a dozen guns as opposed to one gun; however, the number of guns owned might be an indicator of obsessive-compulsive behavior in the individual. The number of Stereos owned might be an indicator of obsessive compulsive behavior in the individual. I have worked with people with "Obsessive compulsive disorder" and known others outside the mental health system that had OCD. Having OCD does not mean someone will be violent. If it did most of us on the forum need to get in line for mental health. Yes, I didn't mean that there were NO mass shootings in other countries of similar wealth. What is unique is the frequency and quantity. Everyone focuses all the time on two points which have nothing to do with the problem, and it IS a problem. First, they focus endlessly into boredom about "the right to have a gun" and second, they obsess with the idea that it's all about "criminals with guns." Neither will uncover what is happening in the USA that is unique. The shooters are generally NOT criminals. I can't stress that enough. But somehow, and I suspect it is the result of propaganda, everyone wants to talk about CRIMINALS! It ain't Baby Face Nelson shooting up the schools, it's baby-faced little Joey Smith - Anykid, USA. In so many cases, the kid has never even seen the inside of a police station, let alone jail or prison. Might this be a clue to people that this transcends the criminal justice system? And, it isn't a question of "Europe" in any way. Japan and Australia have miniscule amounts of this mass killing activity. Is there some reason we are scared to death to admit that "something is wrong here?" "The shooters are generally NOT criminals. I can't stress that enough". Really? I thought planning a crime with intent to commit such crime, is in it's self is a crime. All a Gun Free zone does is identify places where someone intent on shooting others is less likely to be immediately confronted with deadly force by someone else. This gives them the chance to do harm to others before they die.

I presume that is my Avatar you mention. I don't expect everyone to be able to identify a firearm when they look at a picture. I know I can't. It is not a automatic weapon. It is an Australian Arms SAP. Often referred to as a Tasmanian Devil. SAP stands for semi auto pistol Agreed. I don't presume to tell Canadians what to think or what they need to change. Most Canadians that I've met are Good people. I worked a number of years in a V.A. Hospital. Worked with both Physically and Mentally damaged individuals. It is sad to see what has happened to these young men. They emptied the mental health facilities in the 1970's in both Canada and the US and the authorities cannot lock someone up simply because they suspect that an individual may be thinking irrationally. For Ontario, and possibly other provinces. But in Ontario, it was actually the mid 90's and not the 70's when the Conservative Harris Govt that allowed many people with mental health issues to be released without supervision. It was due to the transferred costs from provincial onto the municipal level that could not withstand the influx onto their resources.. The Ontario mental heath act was overhauled shortly after that included MHA forms(in particular forms 1&9), allowing detaining people who were a danger to themselves and others, so they could "lock up" potentially dangerous people for psychological assessments and possible further detainment. If someone is deemed a danger to themselves or others here at home, it is legal for police to take them into custody and place them in a mental hospital. They are then entitled to a hearing where a Judge determines if they need to continue to be held. I've worked with patients that were a danger to self and others and were released. Only to cause harm to themselves and others. I've also worked with patients that I would bet my life that they were not a danger to self or others. But a doctor would convince a judge that they were. They would be locked up in the Mental health ward on a 180 day hold.

No offense meant to anyone. But the Avatar stays Someone has to give an interview. But less personal info might make a difference. Maybe prevent one death or injury. Then I am all for voluntarily with holding a P.O.S's name. I made a Respectful request of forum members. "I can request that we not add to the 15 minutes of fame that these shooters expect to get. I do fully support our County Sheriff's choice to not to add to the shooter's fame by not releasing this A Holes name. Please don't identify anyone by name that does anything like this" This is a Klipsch Forum. This was posted in the Lounge which is the appropriate place for it in this forum. Don't worry, We're not going to quit discussing speakers, music and audio equipment. That's the Glue that holds this forum together. I feel as though many members are friends. So I made a request of Friends. Nothing I haven't done face to face. Some pick and choose what they want to read. If I don't care for something I move on to something I do care for As Joe says below. Oldtimer But what does your post have to do with naming the perp? I have also contacted news organizations. Probably won't do much good. But I did ask that they do not add to the infamy, by voluntarily withholding names in such situations in future. I just think it's the right thing to do. Agreed. America is not a war zone, the last time I looked. "Gun-free" should be, and used to be, the normal state of affairs. Areas with lots of people carrying firearms to protect themselves from other people carrying firearms is not the normal state of affairs. Have legally taken a gun to school legally in my youth. Didn't cause any difficulty for anyone. a free society with armed guards. sounds a lot like Cuba, or Russia, or etc. As for naming the perp, who here off the top of their heads can name the perp of Shady Hook? Of Va Tech? of Ft. Hood? How about even the Columbine guys, or after that the Aurora theater shooter? Who can name all or even more than two or three of these guys? off the top of your heads without a search engine? What difference does it make? I would bet that some of these P.O.S. research and Idolize previous P.O.S. Might not make any difference. But then again it might. No way to PROVE if it will or not. If perchance respecting my request helps to keep one person from injury it was worth making the request. Again I ask that we think before we post. Not interested in offending anyone on this forum. This could easily get locked. I'd not like to see that. john