Bubo

Coytee Klipsch Forum Lifer Heritage Members 2301 14354 posts Location: Knoxville, TN Posted April 12, 2017 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/170006-la-scala-ii-plans-and-drivercrossover-list/ This has a much better aesthetic than the Jube Horn, LaScala bass bin combo IMHO. It also puts the horn at ear level Garage Sale post from 2014 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/150351-k510/ https://usspeaker.com/paudio bmd750-1.htm Recommended cross over at 1khz, looks like 400hz is a stretch Very cool, now I want one to play with...... EV Dx 38 User Manual https://www.electrovoice.com/binary/Dx38_Manual_Rev.5.pdf

The 2 way crossover quest for the holy grail has been going on at least since the 1950s This was Altec's totl home model the 820c with 2 15in woofers and a two way crossover 175lbs each Lansing had a bullet proof patent on his horn driver and diaphram 400-17K hz, if memory serves me correctly, so everyone else had to stay with 3 way crossover until the patent ran out..... 811 horn is approximately at ear level if memory serves me correctly Klipsch rolled out the K horn either before or after Lansing responded with this. The magnets are aligned on the 3 drivers, so phase isn't an issue Mahogany veneer with grills.

Next option, I guess the most obvious, would be the new AK6 Klipschorns. The other most recent option has been looking into Jubilees. I will say I am not a huge fan of the bass bin aesthetic of the Jubes. They do kind of look a little industrial and 1990s to me. Again, size is not a factor, but I don't want an eyesore as the main focal point in the room. However it seems like all of the great things I am reading about the Jubes could potentially be seen by holding on to my La Scala II bass bins and just replacing the tophat with the 402 horn. In this configuration I could see setting the 402 on top of the La Scala II bass bin, and continuing to use my SB2000 subs (sent out from my preamp). This option could retain all of the great things about the La Scala IIs that I love and improve the midrange and scale of the speakers.

Another thread on Jubes Hello Everyone, https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/160716-klipsch-jubilee-newbie-seeking-help-please/&page=5

Here is a thread on the 402 la Scala combination https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/170152-hooking-up-k-402-horns-to-commercial-la-scalas-bracing-the-bins/

Lots of people have put different horns on top the LaScala Your current crossover is a 3 way crossover With just two drivers, which is a good idea, you need a two-way crossover Your configuration would be Pre amp feeding 1 stereo crossover Crossovers feeding two, two channel amplifiers. 2 luxmans ?. DBX and others have some great options, which are used in pro applications and studios Xover will have to support 0-500 hz on the low and 400 to 17k on the high How fast one signal drops off and the other takes over is important, if you can adjust the roll off and experiment .....better. Analog vs digital.....once analog I hate to re-encode to digital ...quantization errors may be unavoidable, so 96Khz is supposed to be invisible to ear........ For your cross over choices, there are others on the forum that can make better suggestions than I can on specific models. Balanced vs RCA, digital vs analog, roll off options, cross over frequencies etc...... If your pre amp is balanced, I would go all balanced. You can also think about adding a pro studio Equalizer with a microphone adjustment which brings up the same issues as below, lots of choices...... dbx offers parametric Examples of what is out there Crossover $250 Eq $550 totl digital https://dbxpro.com/en/product_families/crossovers https://dbxpro.com/en/products/223xs The dbx 223xs is a dual channel crossover with all the features you would expect from a professional product. It features Linkwitz-Riley 24dB per octave filters, independent output gain controls for level matching, output phase inversion, 40 Hz low cut filter, and optional mono summing of the low frequency (subwoofer) output. Everything in the design exudes great precision from the solid "click" controls to the high quality XLR inputs and outputs. Recommended for: Portable. Features XLR balanced ins and outs Mode switch for stereo 2-way or mono 3-way operation Low frequency summed (subwoofer) output x10 range switch on both channels 40Hz high pass (low cut) filter both channels Phase reverse switch on all outputs Individual level controls on all outputs 24dB per octave Linkwitz-Riley filters (the professional standard) Stereo/Mono status LEDs indicate the selected mode dbx® 2 year parts and labor as standard CSA NRTL/C approved CE compliant The 234xs uses precision filters to separate the audio signal and direct the correct frequencies to your loudspeaker drivers. By directing only the specific frequency bands to each speaker driver the 234xs leaves your amplifiers free to use their full power on the usable signal eliminating distortion and giving your PA system a cleaner and better sound. The dbx 234xs is a dual channel crossover with all the features you would expect from a professional product. It features Linkwitz-Riley 24dB per octave filters, independent output gain controls for level matching, output phase inversion, 40 Hz low cut filter, and optional mono summing of the low frequency (subwoofer) output. Everything in the design exudes great precision from the solid "click" controls to the high quality XLR inputs and outputs. Recommended for: Portable. Features XLR balanced ins and outs Mode switches for mono 4-way or stereo 2-way/3-way operation Low frequency summed (subwoofer) output x10 range switch on both channels 40Hz high pass (low cut) filter both channels Phase reverse switch on all outputs Individual level controls on all outputs 24dB per octave Linkwitz-Riley filters (the professional standard) Stereo/Mono status LEDs indicate the selected mode dbx® 2 year parts and labor as standard CSA NRTL/C approved CE compliant iEQ-15 also offers the built-in necessities which include AFS™ feedback Suppression, Type V™ noise reduction and PeakStopPlus® limiting. Besides including two 15-band channels of 2/3-octave equalization, the iEQ-15 also offers +12 dB input gain range; switchable +6 or +15 dB boost/cut range, 40mm faders, XLR, 1/4'' and Euroblock inputs and outputs, nonconductive nylon sliders; and an intuitive user interface with comprehensive output and gain reduction metering. As always, the inevitable result of our meticulous attention to detail and top-quality componentry is exceptional sound, performance, and reliability. The iEQ series represents a major step forward in the performance of EQs. The iEQ series is now able to offer state-of-the-art digital EQ performance and specs with an analog look and feel. From its amazing 10Hz to 22kHz frequency response, to its 113dB dynamic range and Advanced Feedback Suppression (AFS™), dbx proprietary Type V™ noise reduction and PeakStopPlus® limiting, the iEQ-15 offers out of this world specifications with a downto- earth price point. Sure to find a home in the studio, on tour and with installed sound venues, the iEQ-15 is destined to take its rightful place in the lineage of great dbx® signal processors that are the professional’s choice in signal processing. With such pristine design and quality, the iEQ-15 offers the maximum sonic flexibility in a straight forward interface and rock-solid construction. Recommended for: Portable, Tour. Features Advanced Feedback Suppression (AFS™) Type V™ Noise Reduction PeakStopPlus® Limiting 2/3-octave Constant Q frequency bands Switchable boost/cut ranges of +6 or +15dB 18 dB per octave 40Hz low-cut filter +12dB input gain range XLR, TRS and Euroblock Inputs and Outputs Internal Toroidal Transformer Frequency Response of 10Hz to 22kHz Dynamic range of greater than 113dB User Power Up Features Relay Bypass for Power Failure System Protection

Rotel has a good reputation for a long time. I trust you will enjoy your new purchase.

Get a WiFi router if you don't already have one Buy a Network Access Storage Hard Disk connected to the router All devices on the network can then access the disk via wifi Rip all your CDs lossless onto your PC hard disk, Disk is cheap In January I usually rip 300-500 Cds Then copy them onto the NAS Disk. I use a lap top connected to my DAC for Playback from WiFi Disk and the internet There are lots of music file management programs you can run in windows I run Media Monkey

YAMAHA LOVE StereoPolice on Youtube did 3 parts on the Yamaha AS-1100 which is a current high end model and his new Forte 3s Also did 2 or 3 more on AS-1100 and lots more on the Forte 3s Very positive on both, very good tech explanation of amps he usually opens them up and compares them to spec on the bench for the new Yammy he didn't have the test gear for the amp circuit they use. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUe3iLa7-as https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/a-s1100_g/index.html

https://www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-2952/12-woofer-with-paper-conecloth/dp/80R7003 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/186650-heresy-replacement-woofer/ I would leave the H2s alone start looking on this forum and e-bay for used H1 or H2 horns, drivers, crossovers etc You should be able to score the internals for a pair of Heresys easily and then build the cabinets yourself from birch and add the veneer you like, or find a friend to help with the veneer. Maybe someone could suggest a 12in direct replacement that he could buy new ?

Suggest either completely black or natural stain to bring up the grain. I don't like black and did Natural , watco oil or min wax works well. I don't like polyurethane on speakers or fine furnture it makes it very difficult if you want to change the look or freshen it up. I would do Watco Natural Oil, one application, then wait a few months to see if you want to bring the grain up a bit more.

Experiment with the sub moved to the middle the Fortes moved close to the corners and slanted in experiment with focus on your listening chair in front of it and behind at different angles sometimes slightly off axis sounds better The radiators need room to work the question is how much, I would start out a few inches off of the wall and go from there I demo'd some that were approx 10ft apart and 3-4ft off of the wall and sounded great Area rug between you and the speakers is a good idea. Back of the room is a good place for book shelves, curtains or a hanging rug

I would take a hard look at a used Pioneer THX (Ultra 2) Certified Receiver, the characteristics are certified in a THX test lab. These units have high-end built in DACs, Tuners, and excellent performance. Just the DAC in these is worth $500. Try to find a unit with Pre outs, Tosslinks and Coax, Remote and Microphone A good mic can be scored on Parts express if needed or other The Amp sections will be either AB or newer units Class D - All of the manuals are downloadable from the Pioneer site or HIFi Engine - I would connect sources via Tosslink using Glass not plastic for electrical isolation - Plug all units into the same power supply to avoid ground loops - The Receiver has enough inputs for all of your sources, lots of them - Any good aftermarket remote will support the features on the Pioneer Elites - Some of the Receivers also have a good Phono input If you want to use the unit as a PreAmp, + DAC, EQ, Room correction unit in any combination You can add a 2 Channel Amp later with world-class specs and performance like the Yamaha MX series the MX 600, 630, 800, 830, 1000 units can be had for a few hundred and sound great compared to anything at any price. MX-600 sold for $160 ebay, if you like the sound worth replacing the Capacitors, then good for another 20 years. MX-600 https://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-MX-600U-NATURAL-SOUND-STEREO-POWER-AMPLIFIER/264454799728?hash=item3d92bc0170:g:MsMAAOSwtuRdcVBK Power output: 135 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo) Frequency response: 20Hz to 20kHz Total harmonic distortion: 0.003% Damping factor: 70 Input sensitivity: 1.14V Signal to noise ratio: 123dB Speaker load impedance: 4Ω to 16Ω Dimensions: 435 x 170 x 425mm Weight: 13kg Year: 1988 https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/yamaha/mx-600.shtml HiFi Engnine will allow you to make a short list of Receivers based on Year, certification and specs Pioneer Elite Receiver VSX-26TX This one is Class D, which has become popular lately for the multi channel and 2 channel integrated amps. These units allow you to turn off everything and run direct from the DAC into the AMP, or run the signal through the room correction, EQ and THX circuits at the push of a button. This one is listed at $250 https://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-ELITE-SC-27-THX-Ultra2-PLUS-Certified-7-1-Channel-Home-Theater-Receiver/283625274973?epid=97483965&hash=item4209623e5d:g:XQoAAOSwo6hc8zog Pioneer Elite Receiver VSX-26TX 100W/Ch THX Ultra Certified Dolby Digital & DTS $60.00 Processing: Dolby Digital and dts Decoding THX Ultra Certified 24-bit Digital Processing Chain for absolute accuracy Crystal 24-bit A/D Converters Motorola 24-bit Digital Signal Processor (DSP56362) Burr Brown 96k / 24-bit D/A Converters Digital Signal processing to re-create different acoustical environments. Modes include: Hall 1, Hall 2, Jazz, Dance, Theater 1, & Theater 2 Advanced Theater Midnight Mode Digital Noise Reduction Power: Direct Energy MOSFET Amplifier Design Stereo: 100 watts per channel (20 Hz to 20 kHz, @ 8 ohm, 0.09% THD) Surround: 100W x 5 (20 Hz to 20k Hz, @ 8 ohm, .09% THD) 6 ohm load capability guaranteed Pioneer Elite VSX-33TX 5.1 Dolby THX $100 Etc etc

Rinse the record with warm tap water, try to keep the label dry Use some mild dish soap that is already diluted and clean with your fingers Wipe dry with a cotton dish towel on the plush side after shaking it out Then leave on a dish rack, wooden is best After that, I use a velvet disk brush with a little diluted alcohol to give the record a quick wipe when I play them You could also wipe with a micro fiber towel and distilled water

Just took at look at the Triton 1 web page Drivers GE 6 drivers inc powered subs & 4 side radiators vs. 3 driver Forte with passive 15in rear radiator Spec out Triton Frequency Response:.....................,,.. 14 Hz – 35 kHz. Efficiency:... 92 dB. Forte 3 FREQUENCY RESPONSE (+/- 3 dB) 38 Hz – 20kHz, SENSITIVITY 99dB @ 2.83V / 1m Not totally different design philosophy, but different: F3= Simpler crossover, passive (not powered) speaker, horn loaded mid-range & tweeter, much better efficiency F2 is the best sleeper I have heard so far, F3 is an updated version of a proven design. Don't recall GE other than at a show...but too many speakers to remember.

Recommend you play a female voice with a piano through both, several tracks, perhaps several different females with zero processing on the voice reverb is hard to get away from. Freebird Capella on the Duets soundtrack for male vocal good test track If you can hear this, you have a great stereo If voice sounds natural the amp and speakers are spot on, especially female Piano goes from zero to wide open on the amp and the speakers pretty much every frequency you are likely to hear. Test Tracks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEv6NotxuC4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzNmG_lpNw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVGCzTlT2hI Too bad they didn't put this out on CD or DTS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRgHgftQY84

Go on Craigs list or e-bay and score a TOTL surround receiver for less than 200 Someone who wants the latest surround chip sets, can't get much for their used receiver I like the Class AB Pioneer Elites and Yamahas, 100WPC will blow your head off, 5.1 is perfect I prefer the THX tested and approved amps, a few examples below, all day long at give away prices Burr Brown or other TOTL DAC built in, room eq, eq, ability to roll off high end, or go direct from the DAC to the output with 120db SN Be sure to get a mint unit, manuals, mic for tuning the room, and remote, box is a bonus Example research on AV forums and Audio Karma for model reliability etc.... https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-VSX-1014TXK-THX-Select-AV-Receiver-Surround-Power-110-W-Massive-sound/183528699479?epid=46571437&hash=item2abb29b657:g:jEYAAOSwY2Jb5uEV:rk:1:pf:0 https://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-ELITE-VSX-81TXV-7-1ch-770w-THX-Certified-Home-Theater-Receiver-HDMI/253959286380?epid=60216615&hash=item3b21272e6c:g:GTEAAOSwb3hb0mY3:rk:3:pf:0 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-Elite-VSX-54TX-AV-Receiver-7-1-Channel-THX-Orig-Price-1-500/323514746465?hash=item4b52fb4661:g:caAAAOSwrGlby5h5:rk:5:pf:0 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-AVENTAGE-RX-A1000-7-2-Channel-280-Watt-Receiver/173627146519?epid=97513283&hash=item286cfc0117:g:pHgAAOSwolpb4hg8:rk:29:pf:0

Congratulations on your new LaScalas The link below is a collection of my modest improvements and lots of other modifications from other owners I put them into a collection as a I read them. My strong recommendation is one modification at a time, then pause for a while. If you are having cabinet modifications, new woofer, and 2 way crossover with new horn, I strongly recommend you get a quote from a local kitchen cabinet shop for a pair of new bass cabinets with the braces, 1 in Baltic birch, And depending on the horn and driver, they can make you a two piece cabinet like the LaScala 2s Home sales are down from what I read, so a shop might be willing to be reasonable with you. If you like your new 2 ways better than the LaScalas, put them in another room or sell to pay for the new ones. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/159419-lascala-update-upgrade/

Matti Otala Biography with Citations and contact info for a job or good question ? http://www.otala.com/pages/mao/ Thread discussion https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/125541-matti-otala-amplifier-milestone-dead-alive.html IEEE Paper by Otala http://hifisonix.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/The-Theory-of-TIM-Matti-Otala.pdf Links to papers http://hifisonix.com/tag/matti-otala/ Audio Design Library http://hifisonix.com/category/audio-design-topics/ Otala research papers, a few of them https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/2035124192_Matti_Otala

1977 PDF http://www.jockohomo.net/data/7470.pdf Nice write up by Olin Lathrop Transient Intermodulation distortion (TIM) is usually measured by putting a burst of a fixed frequency into a amplifier and then measuring what actually comes out. By Fourier analisys, you can see that changing amplitude of a frequency actually implies additional frequencies. This is why AM radio stations can't be spaced too close together. They don't just radiate at the carrier frequency, but some range on either side of the carrier frequency. The additional frequencies of a single-frequency burst cause particular trouble to some types of amplifiers, and the resulting distortion appears more noticable to human listeners than more general distortion. Put another way, audio quality isn't just about total distortion level, but the type of distortion too. Different types of distortion are more objectionable than others, and TIM is of the more objectionable type. This is why there is sometimes a separate spec for TIM in addition to the overall distortion spec. TIM seems to be exacerbated by amplifiers that don't have much frequency headroom above the highest desired frequency, and a high global feedback ratio. Design techniques to minimize TIM include: Making the internal signal path of the amplifier still have gain well above the highest frequency of interest. For example, for a "HiFi" audio amp that must work up to 20 kHz, you may want individual stages to be reasonably flat to 100 kHz. A simple passive low pass filter in front of the amp that limits incoming signals above the specified operating range. This together with point 1 means that the active part of the amp will only see frequencies for which it's gain is relatively flat. This can be as simple as a one or two stage R-C filter. The gain of each stage should be stable and well-defined. Do not rely on global feedback to deal with high and unrestrained gain of individual stages. Keep the global feedback fairly low, which is the same as saying keep the open-loop gain of the overall amp only somewhat above the final desired gain of the whole amp. 10-15 dB seems to be a reasonable range. If all the stages individually have reasonably flat gain, then not much feedback will be needed to guarantee overall flat and predictable gain anyway. https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/156643/what-is-transient-intermodulation-distortion Decent write up, beat is one of the RF items I could learn more about, Radio the final frontier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermodulation A frequency spectrum plot showing intermodulation between two injected signals at 270 and 275 MHz (the large spikes). Visible intermodulation products are seen as small spurs at 280 MHz and 265 MHz.

PM sent Nov 18 is doable for me. you might want to put it up on the old thread for visibility

Worth reading from the chip set and board level makers, goes over the issues. Actually, highly recommended reading........ https://www.electronicdesign.com/analog/can-class-d-amplifier-audio-performance-get-any-better http://www.irf.com/product-info/audio/classdtutorial606.pdf https://medium.com/@EPC_Corp/egan-fets-in-high-performance-class-d-audio-amplifiers-11e94d78c4d2 The differences in power dissipation and efficiency widen at moderate power levels. This is important for audio, because long-term average levels for loud music are much lower (by factors of five to 20, depending on the type of music) than the instantaneous peak levels, which approach PLOAD max. Thus, for audio amplifiers, [PLOAD= 0.1 × PLOAD max] is a reasonable average power level at which to evaluate PDISS. At this level, the Class D output-stage dissipation is nine times less than Class B, and 107 times less than Class A. For an audio amplifier with 10-W PLOAD max, an average PLOAD of 1 W can be considered a realistic listening level. Under this condition, 282 mW is dissipated inside the Class D output stage, vs. 2.53 W for Class B and 30.2 W for Class A. In this case, the Class D efficiency is reduced to 78%—from 90% at higher power. But even 78% is much better than the Class B and Class A efficiencies—28% and 3%, respectively. These differences have important consequences for system design. For power levels above 1 W, the excessive dissipation of linear output stages requires significant cooling measures to avoid unacceptable heating—typically by using large slabs of metal as heat sinks, or fans to blow air over the amplifier. If the amplifier is implemented as an integrated circuit, a bulky and expensive thermally enhanced package may be needed to facilitate heat transfer. These considerations are onerous in consumer products such as flat-screen TVs, where space is at a premium—or automotive audio, where the trend is toward cramming higher channel counts into a fixed space. https://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/class-d-audio-amplifiers.html

Class D pluses: High effiency Switching power supplies, no giant transformers Low Heat Allow for greater channel density in surround amps where heat and power become big issues Minus Don't spec out against AB and A amps and sound quality has been an issue "The power supply voltage directly amplitude-modulates the output voltage, dead time errors make the output impedance non-linear and the output filter has a strongly load-dependent frequency response. An effective way to combat errors, regardless of their source, is negative feedback. A feedback loop including the output stage can be made using a simple integrator. To include the output filter, a PID controller is used, sometimes with additional integrating terms. The need to feed the actual output signal back into the modulator makes the direct generation of PWM from a SPDIF source unattractive.[6] Mitigating the same issues in an amplifier without feedback requires addressing each separately at the source. Power supply modulation can be partially canceled by measuring the supply voltage to adjust signal gain before calculating the PWM[7] and distortion can be reduced by switching faster. The output impedance cannot be controlled other than through feedback. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-D_amplifier Class A is what all amps are compared to as the Reference Can you have good and bad designs in each, sure. Class A can be used to heat the room Excellent write up on Amp Types, I can't read it too many times https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_amplifier_classes

You can probably get an excellent used TOTL surround Receiver Yamaha or Pioneer or other for $200 Once the don't have the latest decoders, their value drops like a rock Don't buy one that is Class D, stick with the Class ABs 100 WPC should do just fine turn off all of the digital features, and try running in direct stereo aka bypass The built in DAC will probably have TOTL chip sets like Burr Brown or other and a SN of 120db You can add a sub later, since the system already supports it Later if you go with 5 Heresies, you can run it in Surround 5.1 or 5.2 which would rock, then turn off all of the processors and go direct to listen to music in stereo The receiver will allow you to EQ both the room and the speakers if you wish. I like the THX rated Pioneers with remote in excellent condition, you have to check for the HDMI interfaces, the new chip set is what Dolby Atmos ? The SC was the TOTL but you have to check for the reviews on line, some units are more lovable than others and reliable too. https://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-ELITE-VSX-33TX-THX-5-1-Receiver-EXCELLENT/202489839818?hash=item2f2555c0ca:g:wxwAAOSw3Zhbor0M:rk:2:pf:0 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-Elite-VSX-54TX-AV-Receiver-7-1-Channel-THX-Orig-Price-1-500/323514746465?hash=item4b52fb4661:g:caAAAOSwrGlby5h5:rk:4:pf:0 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-SC25-Elite-7-1-Channel-Digital-Home-Theater-THX-Receiver/332837602257?epid=97526440&hash=item4d7eaac3d1:g:0CsAAOSwNWhbtqcm:rk:6:pf:0

Text from the AD "klipsch k horns in a light cherry finish. I bought these unfinished and had a furniture shop stain and spray 3 coats of clear. Also added Crites crossovers and tweeters. Ex/Con. 4500 OBO no trades please and NO I do not need help selling. The only reason for sale is I had a 20K$$ UV Mimaki printer die and I need to replace by Nov. 1 The dark photos are my I-Phone the lite my Ipad actual color is between the two. No rips, stains, nicks or gouges Nonsmoking home."