Bubo
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I wrote down my general impressions in the link below
Didn't want to insert long post here
Maybe keep specifics discussions here.
Trip report: My general impressions from the show.
https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/215948-axpona-2023-trip-report/
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In each area, when I listened, I rated the products as in the top tier or not
So there were As and also rans,
there are too many choices to settle for less.
More price doesn't equate to an A rank.
Neither does reputation or hype.
There are definitely some companies that consistently put out good product, but not all are As
Some McIntosh amps are loved more than others.
For example, an honest headphone bake off needs everything the same except for the headphones.
Same is true for any bake off.
General Impressions
Show was very busy, near parking filled up fast
Lots of exhibitors, maybe more than the previous years
Lots of people fly in to attend the show, shows commitment
The action in audio is in the Headphones, Head gear, and Digital amps
Most of the audio market by volume is the Smart Phone and powered speakers, some foot print at the show, but the focus is on the big ticket iron and lots of exotic designs.
Lots of massive amplifiers with machined aluminum cases producing lots of watts for inefficient speakers.
New speaker concepts still showing up, - Endow Audio.com has new horn I haven't seen before. Chattanooga TN.
The Name Klipsch didn't appear in the show guide, or the show directory and maps in the atrium, maybe decided to attend late.
K-Horns were in the Esoteric room, sounded pretty good. Only heritage on site.
Demos are risky given the rooms and other challenges, like which amp would you rather demo with or source material
I visited floors 6 and above and the ground floor and Mezzanine exhibits, nothing struck me as the product of the year, perhaps I have become jaded.
There is no correlation between price and sound quality at the show, perhaps also true at home as someone convinces themselves it sounds great.
All of the Integrated and pre amp makers must add tape in/out RCA interfaces to their units so Equalizers and other gear can be inserted into the signal path for modification and enhancement.
More Amps are adding Meters, it's nice to see what the thing is doing. Knobs, meters, dials, gauges, buttons, lights, bouncing bar graphs not only make me happy, I can see what the gear is doing.
The standout at the show was little Emo aka Emotiva of Nashville.
-Instead of a demo room they had a standard trade show booth in the exhibit hall, look muscular with all of their product offerings on display. No demos. Their sheet metal cases are good enough IMHO, flat black like old Yamaha. Aesthetics are good, they got prettier.
Almost every demo room, the volume was way too loud, maybe why I like Emo's silent booth so much.
Almost no one inc me brought a pen, the salesmen sure didn't. Weird.
HEAPHONES
They had their own exhibit room, where the action is.
Demos sound like 20 people around you talking, closed cans are slightly better.
Still worth spending some time.
So many great headphones, IMHO declining marginal returns begin setting in around $200 and peak around $350
Lots of head amps, dacs, all kinds of cans, many sound great.
CABLES
14GA and lamp cords unless you are running distance or in the walls, then twisted pairs
Shielded line level and other source cables aka USB, Ethernet etc
Everything else is snake oil IMHO.
HIGH PERFORMANCE POWER CORDS
Sucker born every minute
DACS
$250 is the sweet spot, IMHO
if the unit does more aka pre amp, wifi, blutooth, HQ head amp, bouncing meters etc then maybe more money.
Gallons of snake oil in this segment.
Most are the Delta Sigma designs, there can't be that many DS chip sets on the market
INTERNET SERVERS
No one can explain why I need one at the shows
I couldn't act dumber when asking for an explanation.
Buy a laptop, or use an old one and be done with it, $400
- coupled with a wireless keyboard, fit, form and function are superior
I use my laptop display or 50 inch plasma display when surfing.
The US salesman reping Aurender Korea at the show
- explained to me that their server "was like a record player", and I "couldn't buy one at Best Buy".
- I think they were asking $10-20K for their server, which my old laptop blows away. Bigger display too.
Verdict Snake Oil.
DIGITAL AMPS
This is one area where I believe performance and quality gains are being made,
and drastic price performance improvements and next gens of chip sets entering the market.
Techincs has their own digital amp they are very proud of, their demo sounded pretty good. All techincs gear
11 Channel surround amps are definitely a driver in the segment, but also in the high watt stereo systems.
AMPLIFIERS- INTEGRATED AMPS
The sweet spot in Solid State, if you only want 50 watts. $350-500 you are in like Flynn.
There are lots of great choices in the integrates from every manufacturer. Uber competitive segment.
Yamaha offering an entry product and ladder of integrated more for your money products.
If you are running Klipsch heritage, the question is what does the first .5 watt sound like ?
Component systems SS
For me, Yamaha, McIntosh, Pass, are all safe bets and in the same sweet spot $ 7.5 - 15K
I would have to do more homework on Pass before throwing down the cash.
I am all in with Klipsch for 45 years, so I don't need hundreds of watts.
Accuphase was there, but they sounded terrible in the demo room. Speakers, room, source ?
If you want tubes, the options are limitless with Klipsch, you don't need many watts.
I would limit my search to less than 30W amps
If your speakers need 30-50 watts to turn on and 100 to do anything
then you are into different manufacturers.
Class D and the new performance chips, are the only hope of affordability if you need hundreds of watts.
TURNTABLES ARE HOT
Lots of choices, will any of them last 50 years like my old Duals ?
Using gold vs dollars, my old Dual would be around $3K in today money
Declining marginal returns set in fast at around $300-500 IMHO
Denon has one that resembles the units they made in years gone by, I should have looked for it.
I took some photos, but too much of a hassle shrinking them to fit here.
Good sounding headphone amp from Poland, OTL design $1K
Closed cans helped, but detailed and sweet
Headphone hall is noisy, but you can get a good listen with some work.
https://upscaleaudio.com/products/feliks-audio-echo-mk-ii-headphone-amplifier
Audio Research and McIntosh were the winners for meters, big meters
These were interesting, sounded pretty good, I think the salesman said $70K
Diptyque audio is a unique concept of flat speakers, high fidelity, made in France,
but we are convinced that the one that brings together the most advantages and allows music to be reproduced most naturally are isodynamic loudspeakers, also called Magnetostatic.
https://fidelityimports.com/pages/diptyque-audio
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39 minutes ago, jjptkd said:
Anyone check out the Carver room?
I stuck my head in
Some gear on demo
Nothing going that I could use to form an opinion
Not much help
M
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1 hour ago, capo72 said:
Klipsch room on the 12th floor was a bit of a let down after last year's impressive showing.
K-Horns on the 6th Floor
Sounded pretty good in the small space
Demos are always difficult at AXPONA
variables are hard to control
Agree 12th floor was good for the Klipsch bookshelf listeners
9s sounded pretty good
I would consider a pair if I had an application for them.
The vast majority of the audio market is smart phones as streaming devices
and now adding record players.
As much as I like to trash this segment
I have to credit them with the rebirth of the quality headphone market
never so many choices of great headgear.
1 hour ago, capo72 said:I have gone on Sundays because of my personal issues with large crowds.
Near lots filled early Friday and Sat.
1 hour ago, capo72 said:This year's was defiantly more than last. I just couldn't get into a couple of rooms that I wanted despite multiple tries. I really wanted to hear the Decware 300B amp but couldn't. I also was not patient enough to be able to get in Justin Weber's Ampsandsound room.
Missed both, amps difficult to get into
Ran out of time by 6th floor on Sat
1 hour ago, capo72 said:I also heard some terrific Tannoy in the Up Scale Audio room which were fantastic along with meeting Kat!
Tannoy sounded weak at best to me, living on rep?
Too many variables for a critical controlled listen
Though others sounded great.
1 hour ago, capo72 said:One of the more disappointing speakers for me were whatever big speakers Focal had on display. I don't remember the model, but they were smaller than the Grand Utopia. They just missed the mark for speakers at that price point IMO. Not a great set up in a big room though.
Skipped Focal 23, 22 spent some time on them, IMHO over priced,
others sound noticeably better for 20% of the price.
A common theme at the show.
1 hour ago, capo72 said:I was also Impressed by big Martin Logan planars in a small room. Thunderous, clear sound.
I also liked them, company on the 6th floor had a stand and subs that rounded them out, apparently selling well.
The ML conventional surround sound speakers at competitive prices, sounded noticeably better than a lot of competitor's $70K speakers. Salesman stated that they had a new design, as opposed to uprev of their 10 year old design. I would put them on my short list for a bake off.
1 hour ago, capo72 said:Despite my frustration with the crowd, it is well worth the $30 bucks to spend all day listening to gear that I would otherwise never get a chance to or be able to afford. I am lucky that this show is only about 45 minutes from where I live.
I purchased the 2 day pass, and still missed 50% of the gear, walking room to room sampling, stopping at ones that were interesting.
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1 hour ago, SpeedLimit said:
hello
We are planning our stay in the American West.
We arrive on July 25 for a stay until August 22.
Good plenty of time
1 hour ago, SpeedLimit said:Can someone tell me if the Coastal Road One is now open from Los Angeles to San Francisco ?
We have to rent a car with unlimited mileage and all the guarantees, do you have good addresses, i mean with good prices ?
+ Check google maps and maybe a travel site, if a section is closed, it's closed go around.
We want to visit Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Brice Canyon, Moab, Antelope Canyon, San Francisco, Monument Valley, Grand Canyon (stay perhaps in a motel near Williams) ...+ City touring in the US will not be the same as Europe use to be, SF and LA may already be no-go dead-zones.
I have been to SF more than40 times, so it hurts me to say it, my brother moved out of South Bay and thanks God he did, frequently, He was Mr CA.
I would not send my daughter to either one. The Getty Villa is worth a visit, Humbolt forestis a must, Muir woods, Monterey is nice as are other beach towns aka Santa Basrbera etc , Napa Valley (girls like the spas etc) good restaurants and at the vineyards, is a nice experience as is Lake Tahoe and the shows buy the tickets well in advance for the good shows.
Definitely add zion, I would add a couple of days at the beach on Coronodo Island in San Diego maybe a concert if anyone good is playing. SD zoo is popular. Main Fleet Base is impressive, Coronodo Naval air and Miramar if they have an Air Show, check the schedule for the West coast air shows.
Stay out of Mexico if you value your life.
What the West has that France does not is the West Coast mountain ranges inc LA 14K ft peaks, and the Rockies with a great parks system.
A lot of the smaller beach towns are adorable and safe.
Maybe fly to Eureka CA via a connection in Denver and start at Humbolt Forrest and drive down the coast from N Cal.
There are probably plenty of great places on the coast all the way down.
Maybe stay in Sasalito or near by and drive into SF if there is something you want to see and get out before dark.
Go east to Tahoe via Napa and see if you want to spend a couple of days in NAPA, Tahoe is beautiful.
South to the Getty and Orange County south of LA aka Newport Beach etc and beach towns South to San Diego.
SD to Las Vegas to Utah Parks to Mesa Verde Colorado, N to Denver, Boulder Dushanbe Tea house for a meal, and up to Estes Park and Rocky Mountain National Park
Maybe go to a baseball game in Denver, concert at Red Rocks, good steak houses. Business Hotels are dirt cheap on weekends, Denver has some great suburbs and neighborhoods, un fortunately up 300% + in price with shale oil strikes.
Denver is short drive to Vail and Aspen via the mountain passes, not the Brenner but still nice.
Fly home out of Denver
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Put 2 Heresys up on end tables
on the sides of the TV
they sound great
You can add a sub woofer later if you need it
I have had 2 pairs for 45 years
and will never sell them
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Did you try switching the cables between the 2 speakers ?
Are the metal straps secure in the backs so the crossover is firmly connected ?
Are the rear terminals firmly connected
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Will the Heresys be replacing your current speakers
or
will you be running a second system for stereo ?
Given your space
I'd say Heresys up on 2 end tables 12-16in off the walls
sub optional
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32 minutes ago, wuzzzer said:
I just love threads like this where people offer advice and suggestions and the OP is never to be heard from again.
Maybe the OP has a job ?
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I don't think there is a simple solution where you wire the LR amplifier outputs together and have a good outcome where your amp doesn't go up in smoke.
The AVR was designed specifically for the application you want to use in your TV room
A very good used one can be had for $200.
Set it up for 3 channel, and use the direct mode and the built in DAC for the TV or video source decode. You can toggle the direct button in and out to see which way you like it.
When you run it in stereo mode, it will derive the center channel, somehow they filter for voice frequencies on the center.
You can also toggle to 2 ch stereo with direct mode.
My 2 cents
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54 minutes ago, moray james said:
here is an honest set of reliable measurements done on a klippel system by a competent technician.
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/klipsch_forte_iv/
Wow
Quite a set of charts
Not sure I understand all of them
declining IQ, perhaps I can be a national leader now.
Looks like the LF rear radiator works well bouncing off the walls and floors etc.
the slope on the crossovers, looks more gentle than I expected to see
Not sure if the slopes are "good or bad"
My simplified world view :
Is female vocal sweet when it is supposed to be
Is the leading edge of a piano strike sharp
Does the kick drum sound tight or muddy
I'll watch the YT review, and hopefully find out.
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I don't know if he is wrong, or right
He does make a fact based argument
so you can take measurements
and argue the facts with him
The other question is what were the design goals for the factory product
and did it meet them.
And are Dan's design goals something different.
Such as designed for rooms between these dimensions
with the listeners sitting in this arc.....
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Looks like the Polish mfg has a reg 300B design 8W
and a hot rod version at 15W
The hot rod version may eat the tubes faster
2W is screaming with a lot of the Klipsch Heritage speakers
The main marketing hype is torriodal transformers
I would have written about sounds great ..........
Maybe a freq chart
Does Cary in NC make one of these things ?
Cary has been around a long time
with few used units for sale aka keepers
Shipping, service and warranty would be easier.
Phono pre amp is likely to have the biggest impact on sound
anywhere from $50 to 1000s
I would have to see frequency sweeps to get much money out of me
"Sounds like a glass of $3 Chardonnay" reviews are of limited value
or my other fav "The cable sounds fast"
They can time electrons with their ears ???
There is a Fezz 8W model on sale on audiogon
you can probably get it for 50% off list used
The seller won't like it but ...............
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The best analog engineers in the world 1930s-60s
did the research and development of tube amps
Resistors, capacitors, diodes, transformers and tubes
were and still are the ingredients for the cookie.
My understanding is that most, all tube amp designs
are variants of the myriad tube designs in books.
Companies like WECo had huge incentives to make good sound
and the best and brightest engineers with limitless budgets
and unlimited lab resources.
Is the amp a WECo design at 20% of the price of a WECo ?
I would try to figure out which original design you are buying
and read up on it's history.
As to the company, read the company reviews on BBB, yelp etc
and yes the other boards. Agree, what is the process if damaged freight ?
The amps are heavy
shipping is up 300% from a few years ago
and they probably hold their price down with no returns
I know people who order the top 3 products and return 2
amazingly Amazon allows this since they pass the loss to their supplier
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I like the stripped down versions, shows who has it and who doesn't
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On 4/4/2023 at 4:32 AM, Stube-id said:
Pros, cons and preference of LaScala AL5s with and without DSP?
Set them up with and AVR (THX rated preferred)
Do the set up with the microphone on stereo
Then use the direct button to toggle back and forth.
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Baby Nicks with Tom Petty
Nice remaster, when a music video was musicians playing in the studio, no fireworks no strippers
From waiting tables to a few 1980s million in the bank in a few months
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Sounds like camera mic, still pretty good.
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Casino Royale 1967, HD
Some great scenes and camera work
My 24 year old daughter liked it,
she didn't know any of the actors.
Fan Music video
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Affordable quality amps is EMOs claim to fame.
Haven't heard it.
When I search e-bay I don't see a lot of EMO gear for sale
My guess is that people like it.
I believe they have a 30 day return policy, but verify it first.
good luck
Robinson does fair reviews
Class AB " Natural Human Voice" the biggie for me
Does the girl sound like a girl.....
A2 has good specs, and good price point IMHO
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40 minutes ago, Invidiosulus said:
You would probably be better off with a pair of MWM bass bins and some large modern horns for the mids/tweeter.
This would be my test soundtrack
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23 minutes ago, OO1 said:
the largest Altec VOTT system were the A1 cabs , they were extremely rare , and these were monsters , instead of 4 woofers per pair , there were 6 and the cabs were taller . these were the biggest speakers ever made
I want one, two actually
I'll have to chainsaw the ceiling in my LR to shoe horn them in ....
Shipping weight 2,200 lbs
I may have to also brace the floor
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1 hour ago, OO1 said:
it depends ,if you used the original woofers or not , the original woofer was only 75 w /16 Ohms
The magic with McIntosh tube amps was the transformers
The Alnico magnets are the certain something in the Altec speakers and compression drivers.
They are also proud of their phase plugs and diaphragms. I think the 802 had an unassailable patent for a long time. Someone sells a ferrite knock off. They don't last long on e-bay.
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French man in road trip in California - Utah - Nevada - Arizona
in Lounge
Posted
Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest
The Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest is home to the oldest trees in the world, bristlecone pines. Some of these living trees exceed 4000 years of age and exhibit spectacular growth forms of twisted and beautifully colored wood.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/inyo/specialplaces/?cid=stelprdb5129900
Check out this photo blog
I believe this woman works for the State Water Board or an inspector
One great shot after another of CA
https://mavensphotoblog.com