Crown1

Hello Solitaire, I do not know if you've bought your sub yet, or what your budget is, but I would recommend the Klipsch SW110 or SW112 for your application, both are upto the task of filling your room with deep clean bass and won't cost alot. Also, don't center on frequency response as much as what they sound like. If you want a tighter sound, go with the SW110.If a deeper,fatter sound is desired, then do the SW112.Although if you can spend it, $999 will get you the Klipsch SW310 which is rated for a bit more power, but gets down lower than the other two. I hope this post was of help to you, do write back if or when you make your purchase []

To the unseasoned audiophile,in the past Klipsch speakers have exuded several undesirable qualities, some of which are "brightness" or exaggerated treble, "honkiness" or nasality in the midrange and sometimes "thin" sounding bass.These qualities are usually not the fault of the speaker, and instead are due to improper matching of amp/receiver and/or improper sizing for the room as well as improper setup. Klipsch speakers are generally engineered to be flat in frequency response, efficient in use of power .They can be extremely articulate (revealing) and dynamic.However ,despite their efficiency they should not be underpowered, and should be paired with good,clean,high current receivers and amplifiers for best performance.Not everyone understands this and this is why some people have a bad taste for Klipsch speakers. Most of the Synergy and Reference series utilize a Bi-radial horn which helps to load the compression driver for proper efficiency,dispersion and throw (yes throw - translated as projection over a said distance). In my experience, the tower speakers are ideally meant for larger rooms and not your average 12 x 12, you should using the RB51 or RB41 bookshelf speakers for those spaces. In slightly larger 15x15 use the RB61 or RB81, for rooms beyond that start with the RF42 or RF52 towers and go from there. The larger the speaker, the further you must sit from them in order to get the best result. also you must aim and space them properly, ideally 1ft less apart than the distance to the listening position. I would say that you should most definitely buy Klipsch if indeed you desire the positive qualities of POWER, DETAIL, and the EMOTIONs which these qualities bring to your music. But don't just take what I'm telling you ,go compare them for yourself ,on a good high curent receiver or amp.

Hello D., I do not know if you've bought you receiver yet, but you might want to look at a Pioneer VSX-32. Yes it sells for $800, but you can usually find it for less (just make sure that the seller is a PIoneer/ Pioneer Elite Authorized Retailer (otherwise your warranty is void) . The onboard amp is quite clean and will let your Klipsch's "open up" . Also , in general my experiences with Onkyo have notbeen good,and currently my observations have been that they have a high rate of failure and that they are quite noisey (they click alot due to the type of relay used in them). []

This has been discussed before. It is good to have extra power, however you need to apply the law of diminishing returns. At this point 500 or 600 Watts per channel would be past the point of diminishing returns for your system and your room .Use the XPA5 for the back half of your system, and pick up 2 of the Bryston 6BSST2 ( 300w/pc x3 @.003% distortion all channels driven ! ). Your largest speakers ask for approximately 250w/pc RMS at max. In YOUR environment , no more than 300w/pc RMS is needed,especially if you go with any high end amplifier manufacturer, including Bryston. Bryston's power amps are some of the most solidly built and accurately spec'd amps in the industry, regardless of whether they are used in the home or professionally. 300 watts of Bryston power at .003% distortion is equivalent to or more than some companies' 400 watts. You do not need 600 watts per channel for your environment and your set up.You've seen that the salesperson who told you to upgrade to an amp (despite your not buying it from him) was correct, if what he tells you is the same as aforementioned , then do not waste your sales person's time by debating this.Also do yourself a favor and buy them new. Though Bryston's amps are durable and carry a great warranty, you don't know how they were treated. furthermore, you only have the person's word as to the age and condition of the amp. Bryston is continually making incremental improvements in their electronics overall (including their amplifiers), you would want to benefit from this wouldn't you? Also, you've probably picked the gentleman's brain continually, it would only be fair to help him out a little and give HIM the sale since he's given you countless hours of his time and has more than helped you out . Its only fair. Unless that's of no concern [*-)]

Its good to see that someone actually cares to try out the biamping function . You should yield much better depth, punch and imaging from it.

What is a pre/pro? Is that another term for pre-amp? Do you have a recomendation on pre/pro and poweramp for the reference setup you mentioned? A pre/pro is a pre-amp processor. There is often a tuner included. It does what a pre-amp does (although a few don't have a phono section, so to use a phono cartridge, you would have to plug in an outboard "black box" to handle phono) PLUS they offer processing with a (usually) wide range of options, including the multi-channel Dolby and DTS decoding of DVDs, and the newer models process the superior, uncompressed, Blu-ray sound for Blu-ray movies. Many will also provide some level of digital processing for SACD, a superior music only multichannel format. Some pre/pros by several different companies include the patented Audyssey room and speaker equalization in both the frequency and the time domain. Some include the choice of Audyssey or Audyssey FLAT; the latter does not use the treble roll-off in the top octave of overtones that some people prefer. I think I will prefer the FLAT option, but I won't know until I have it in the room. I am looking for a pre/pro right now, and think I have decided on the Marantz AV7005 that does everything mentioned above (including phono), at $1,500. I will use the power amps I already have (2 -2 chanel NAD 150 wts per chammel, and an extra channel from a Yamaha 135 wt amp, making 5 channels). It's a new world! To the gentleman who wrote the above description, well done. By the way Mustang Guy, the preamp/processor which was mentioned is a good one and can be had with an 8 channel Marantz power amp for around $5000 as a package ( or maybe even less depending on the dealer ) . I like Marantz because their electronics are usually well built, last long, and last but not least , have a very clean but warm sound to them. This combination works well with Klipsch speakers being that Klipsch speakers are usually very revealing,so you want to put them with electronics which are also revealing, yet smooth so as to avoid ear fatigue.

For that amount of room, LaScalas would be great as long as you can afford them, I think they're something like $6000 per pair though. Budget permitting I think they would be ideal. For almost half the price you could do RF-7s all around and an rc64 as center. This setup can be driven by your receiver, however you should invest in a pre/pro and poweramp for best results. Furthermore, invest in multiple subwoofers,this will produce a much fuller, punchier ,cleaner, and more evenly distributed bottom end. If you like a warm sounding amp (since you mentioned tube amplification), and budget permits, try McIntosh on the higher end , or Rotel on the less expensive end. Yes the less expensive , not low end because Rotel is hardly low end. Also instead of putting so much money into large towers ,you can try a more distributed sound by spending less money by using Klipsch's large bookshelf speakers and multiple subs. Your receiver should handle them just fine, without the need for an additional power amp. this set up can work very well, as it will still work quite efficiently, sounds clean ,plays loud, and costs less.

Hello Again, The "125 watts rms" rating is the continuous rating, in essence what the speaker can take all day, all night provided that the amplifier is capable of delivering that without distortion. The "400 watts peak" rating is what the speaker will take for a moment without damage.Most good quality high current power amps are capable of producing more power than their rms ratings,but the peak rating is momentary and usually involves a higher degree of distortion, how much depends on how well the amp is made and how accurately it is rated. If you bi-amp you stand a pretty good chance of getting more clean power to the speaker, do not worry about having a little more power, it actually is better to have more than less so as to keep distortion down ,in turn this helps with overall dynamics and clarity,which also helps with " imaging ".

Sure,why not, that would be alot of fun. Let me know when you'd like to set the system up.[]

I completely agree with willland 14 guage speaker cable at minimum , 12 guage is better if you can fit it, but 14 guage is absolutely fine.

So you know, the larger number "90" is the horizontal dispersion and the "40" is the vertical dispersion. Generally this formation provides nice even coverage. On the Professional side speakers like this are used for "nearfield" coverage where "throw distance" is not as important as smooth, even coverage. This is why Klipsch uses this particular horn design.No it is not perfect ,and no horn radiates all frequencies evenly in all directions. Don't sweat it, just take the time to place your speakers for optimal imaging, essentially, don't be afraid to tow them in a little, this can create a better sweet spot and make the sound more enjoyable for you.

Nice Speakers. Run the F20s as large ,the center as small,and wire the sub to the subwoofer output on the receiver. No need to wire the F20s into the sub ,they go down plenty low. If your receiver is newer and does room analysis, run the auto setup, this allows the receiver to do the work of proper level matching ,crossover and equalization for you. However if you choose to do this adjust the low pass on the sub so that it's all the way up so that there are no conflicts. If your receiver is older and does not have this feature, set the sub's low pass so that it only produces the range which your speakers don't produce well. Lastly,aside from powering things properly, placement, placement , placement. The best speakers and subs in the world won't achieve their true potential unless placed properly.

Nice speakers, set your receiver to large for the F20s and small for the center. Depending on your receiver you may need to set the sub to plus or both if you like it to play at all times.Connect the sub to the subwoofer output.depending on how new or old your receiver is, youcan choose to experiment with crossover frequency oneither one. Also no need wire the sub inline with the F20s. Enjoy !

Definitely buy the Yamaha RX-V667,its a great receiver and quite different from the Yamaha HTR you own. For one thing the RX-V667 will work well either way ,it has a nice discrete, high current amp section. Also it is able to do bi-amping and by doing so , it will deliver more CLEAN power to your speakers. CLEAN power is not what blows speakers. Speakers are usually blown due to distortion and/or overexcursion.Distortion happens when an amp is overdriven. Amps are usually overdriven because they are not properly matched to the speakers they drive (usually underpowering). Overexcursion happens when a speaker is given frequencies which it is not properly tuned for ,which causes the woofers to move too far in and out, which causes the voice coil to slap against the back of the magnet when recoiling as well as hop out of the magnetic gap when pushed past its limit of excursion , and go back in crookedly. This causes extreme heating and therefore deformationof the voice coil,which is heard as crackling. In short , you can't have too much power as long as its good CLEAN power and its used properly. Buy the RX-V667 with confidence and enjoy.Remember to remove the couplers on your RF-52s before setting the RX-V667 into bi-amp mode !

Definitely set your RF7s to large. Also, if your preamp or receiver allow for individual crossover frequencies to each speaker , set the center and rears to small, then experiment with the crossover frequencies. Generally 60hz for the center as well as 80hz for the surrounds. These settings are low enough to produce a pretty natural sound without taxing the speakers.If you do not have this degree of flexibility, just set the center and surrounds to small, your receiver will probably default to 80hz as the crossover point anyway, which generally works well.Next, consider adding a good subwoofer , and then finally add a good 5 channel amplifier if your budget permits, yes you will hear the difference. After all measures have been implemented, you will be rewarded with a very clean, open and dynamic soundstage.

Congratulations on the purchase of your new power amp. You won't be sorry !

PyI have been a live sound tech and audiophile for many years, it is a known fact that speakers generally sound their best when properly powered. Why do you think sound companies use racks and racks of the same amp? One of the reasons is head room. It's okay. We will agree to disagree.

LOL. I never said anything was wrong with his receiver, I was purely referring to the need for more clean power. Bookshelf speakers are naturally less efficient due to the fact that they have smaller cabinets and smaller drivers than large speakers. Your Klipschorns are significantly larger and posses significantly more radiating surface with which to produce sound. Despite the efficiency ratings of the RB51 version II, it will benefit from the extra power of a well matched receiver which meets and or exceeds its power requirements. There is a reason for the continuous rating on the box, it is the point at which the speaker will sound its best provided that it is powered correctly, hence the recommendation of a newer high current receiver.

Your KLF-20s do not have bad crossovers,they're actually pretty good .In fact they are one of my all time favorite vintage models of Klipsch Towers.It's highly probable that the crossovers are still in line despite the removal of the couplers. This is usually the case when dealing with high end home audio speakers. The fact that you have 2 receivers of good quality and are splitting the load of driving the low and high frequency , this allows for more headroom (or reserve) and decreases distortion. Since the woofers are not parasitically taking the lion's share of the power from the horns, and vise versa. This allows each amplifier to interface with its own group of drivers and drive them more effectively, in turn leaving much more headroom (or reserve if you will) in the amplifier, and therefore producing much lower Total Harmonic Distortion (visualize more zeros on the right side of the decimal).This directly impacts the quality of the reproduced sound that you hear, manifesting itself in turn as a more open , dynamic , and therefore more accurate reproduction of the original recording. This can sometimes bring forth a somewhat euphoric and emotional experience ,as though you were hearing your recordings and speakers for the first time.Enjoy your system and don't worry, you are running your system more cleanly than most ,rest easy, and enjoy your system. One last thing, consider upgrading to separate amps , or a good 4 channel (whichever would be more affordable) so as to really see what those KLFs can really do. In essence Power = Detail = Emotion.

The advantages of using a modern receiver with more power, would be cleaner more dynamic sound. When matched with a good quality, high current receiver, the results will be far superior to that of under powering. Under powering causes the amp to work harder, producing a higher percentage of total harmonic distortion . This leads to imprecise bass, cloudy midrange and brittle treble. It can even lead to speaker failure. Power isn't just for playing loudly, its for better overall clarity. If your speakers are rated for 75 watts RMS , knowing Klipsch, the peak may be 3 times that. Optimally 100 watts per channel would be great. Yes, Klipsch speakers are efficient, however that does not mean you should starve them. :-)

If you are thinking of tri-amping, use amps which produce a little more than the rated power for each driver so as to have the necessary headroom for maximum clarity. Largest amp for the woofer, slightly smaller amps for the mid and tweeter. Also use a good clean active crossover if you've removed the original internal crossover. I like tubes but a Marshall amp is clearly not meant for high fidelity. A well built solid state amp can sound plenty warm. If its warmth you seek and you have the budget, pick up a few vintage McIntosh amps. If too expensive, try Marantz, they make a few good multichannel amps which can save space and possibly will give you what you're looking for.

Nic, even if you don't get the full 230 wpc when biamping, you should still end up with more power than if you were to run your Denon AVR- 4306 in stereo. You are effectively giving each speaker its own "pipeline" to the amp's power reserve. This allows each speaker to behave as though it has its own power amp and is not "fighting" for its own piece of the electrical pie. This in turn allows each channel to act like a personal trainer. This keeps distortion down and when amps run at vanishingly low distortion, they sound cleaner, and allow the speakers to bring forth more detail in the recording. Stop making yourself crazy and just try it.

Wow! Belles and Klipschorns, nice set up you have there. The dual center I suggested, is more for feasible for those who have smaller center speakers. I was thinking one above the screen and one below. Can your Belle Klipsch be bi-amped? I ask because for one thing it is a pretty large speaker and would probably benefit from bi-amping. Also on some of the larger Klipsch centers you have the option of bi-amping them ,which would take up the unused channel on the amplifier if there is one.

Yes,its unavoidable. Every manufacturer has their own sonic signature. You will get the combination of the Denon's brightness and the Rotels' Warmth. It should sound pretty good ,it might end up sounding a little bright though. I would get hold of a Marantz, they are generally very clean ,slightly warm , but that's not pronounced its just enough to give you a nice smooth presentation.

I completely disagree that high power amps are harsh at low volume. I am a live sound engineer and have been freelancing as well as doing live sound for worship in small, medium and large sanctuarys for many years and have not found that to be true at all. Yes, some amps do sound a little better when driven hard, but I've never heard them sound harsh at low volume.Furthermore, I work for a retailer which sells receivers and amps which encompass the spectrum from very low to very high end. All have their own "sonic signature". In my experience it has alot to do with gain staging and proper matching. There is nothing wrong with having more power than is needed, its called "headroom" which allows the system to operate with lower stress, at vanishingly low distortion, therefore allowing the electronics and speakers to posses the ability of producing better dynamics. Yes, you should gear your amplification to the specific needs of your environment and listening habits,however you should still, even in a home environment, atleast meet the minimum requirements of your system. If your speakers are rated for 175 watts rms, ideally you should have atleast that amount available. Not for "blowing the windows out" or "waking the neighbors", but for dynamics and clarity.This will allow the system to sound smoother, more open ,and will even add more "punch".